| Is the lock down ending too soon? 04:59 - Jul 1 with 141043 views | Glyn1 |
That's basically it.
Thoughts please. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 5:00]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 11:52 - Sep 8 with 1295 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 11:27 - Sep 8 by exhmrc1 |
As you already know I dont believe Facemasks in shops is really necessary. I suspect due to the increased cases they are taking whatever can be done to reduced them.
One of the things I learned when I went into hospital for a CT scan is that staff only wore masks for close contact. They didnt wear them in corridors. The reason I was told is that in corridors there was only fleeting contact whereas when seeing patients it involved close contact over a longer period. This is probably why the figures kept reducing with shops open and very few wearing masks in them. The problem is the long time close contacts like classrooms in schools, offices and pubs and restaurants dont require masks and it is those environments that really need them.
It doesnt alter the position in that having Air Borders and pubs open has led to the explosion of cases we are now having. I notice that for all your criticism of the Senydd over the Greek Islands they Johnson government has now decided to remove them from the Air Bridges scheme. Perhaps you would like to explain why they havent done the same for Portugal which has higher rates of coronavirus. As of Friday the Welsh average rate was 7 per 100000. The Portugal rate last Wednesday was 23 and Zante last week was 15. |
It doesn't alter the position that pubs opened with no guidance from WG, or any enforcement action against those that contravene the belated regulations.
We've been over air bridges. They are essential for relatively safe areas. I don't know why Boris hasn't revoked them for Portugal, perhaps he should as casea are above the threshold - perhaps a regional approach is in place as with Greece?
I suspect hosptial staff don't wear them as they are tested weekly anyway?
I just don't think the approach to masks in shops is sensible at all - if they reduce transmission at all they should be worn. |  | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:11 - Sep 8 with 1281 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 11:52 - Sep 8 by Scotia |
It doesn't alter the position that pubs opened with no guidance from WG, or any enforcement action against those that contravene the belated regulations.
We've been over air bridges. They are essential for relatively safe areas. I don't know why Boris hasn't revoked them for Portugal, perhaps he should as casea are above the threshold - perhaps a regional approach is in place as with Greece?
I suspect hosptial staff don't wear them as they are tested weekly anyway?
I just don't think the approach to masks in shops is sensible at all - if they reduce transmission at all they should be worn. |
The clear evidence over several weeks after shops reopened is that the number of new cases was going down without people wearing masks so why does anybody think you need to wear them. The case have only gone back up because people brought the virus back and social distancing was ignored in Pus/Bars.
I really cant for the life of me see why there were all those people outside Coyote Ugly in Cardiff at 00.30. My understanding was that Nightclubs, Discotheques and Dance Halls were not allowed to open throughout the UK. Surely any places open until 00.30 or later should be classed as nightclubs.
You have gone on and on about England's testing policy. Reality has now hit.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/people-unable-to-get-coronavirus-test
[Post edited 8 Sep 2020 12:14]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:19 - Sep 8 with 1275 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:11 - Sep 8 by exhmrc1 |
The clear evidence over several weeks after shops reopened is that the number of new cases was going down without people wearing masks so why does anybody think you need to wear them. The case have only gone back up because people brought the virus back and social distancing was ignored in Pus/Bars.
I really cant for the life of me see why there were all those people outside Coyote Ugly in Cardiff at 00.30. My understanding was that Nightclubs, Discotheques and Dance Halls were not allowed to open throughout the UK. Surely any places open until 00.30 or later should be classed as nightclubs.
You have gone on and on about England's testing policy. Reality has now hit.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/people-unable-to-get-coronavirus-test
[Post edited 8 Sep 2020 12:14]
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That may be your understanding, if only we had a government in Wales capable of clarifying that.
I don't think people have brought the virus "back" to the UK from abroad. It is the same behaviour seen at Coyote Ugly that is responsible. The Maesteg Zante group probably barely spoke to anyone Greek while they were there, but didn't socially distance with fellow Brits, and brought it back from them. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:00 - Sep 8 with 1260 views | A_Fans_Dad |
As it is currently mostly younger people contracting it supports your argument. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:43 - Sep 8 with 1250 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:19 - Sep 8 by Scotia |
That may be your understanding, if only we had a government in Wales capable of clarifying that.
I don't think people have brought the virus "back" to the UK from abroad. It is the same behaviour seen at Coyote Ugly that is responsible. The Maesteg Zante group probably barely spoke to anyone Greek while they were there, but didn't socially distance with fellow Brits, and brought it back from them. |
Well I have just seen the Welsh Governments news conference and Vaughan Gething explained things very clearly although it is highly unlikely you will accept anything the Welsh Government said. He pointed out that the evidence from test, trace and protect is rugh how yhit has come from people coming back with coronavirus from abroad and it spreading through social distancing in Wales. He went on to explain how 3 people coming back with coronavirus led to 13 people ending up infected and went through how each became infected. Since the beginning of September there has been 503 new cases and now of in excess of 30 and probably many more who have come back from abroad causing these infections.
The events in Cardiff and in pubs elsewhere as you previously outlined hasnt helped but we have had god knows how many come back here with infections from abroad who have led to hundreds being infected. This is the result of the Air Bridges policy you have been supporting. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 13:51]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:45 - Sep 8 with 1248 views | Andy1300 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:43 - Sep 8 by exhmrc1 |
Well I have just seen the Welsh Governments news conference and Vaughan Gething explained things very clearly although it is highly unlikely you will accept anything the Welsh Government said. He pointed out that the evidence from test, trace and protect is rugh how yhit has come from people coming back with coronavirus from abroad and it spreading through social distancing in Wales. He went on to explain how 3 people coming back with coronavirus led to 13 people ending up infected and went through how each became infected. Since the beginning of September there has been 503 new cases and now of in excess of 30 and probably many more who have come back from abroad causing these infections.
The events in Cardiff and in pubs elsewhere as you previously outlined hasnt helped but we have had god knows how many come back here with infections from abroad who have led to hundreds being infected. This is the result of the Air Bridges policy you have been supporting. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 13:51]
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But how many of those positives are in hospital?
None |  |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:55 - Sep 8 with 1236 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:45 - Sep 8 by Andy1300 |
But how many of those positives are in hospital?
None |
If for once you bothered to listen what actually happens you would have found that there is a time lag between infections being found in the younger age groups and the evidence from elsewhere shows it to be around 3 weeks. In France they currently have 1/3 more people in hospital than on similar times in other years and we are weeks behind them.
Currently what we are seeing are the results of the very low rates of coronavirus we had to mid August when deaths and hospitalisations went down. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:58 - Sep 8 with 1235 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:43 - Sep 8 by exhmrc1 |
Well I have just seen the Welsh Governments news conference and Vaughan Gething explained things very clearly although it is highly unlikely you will accept anything the Welsh Government said. He pointed out that the evidence from test, trace and protect is rugh how yhit has come from people coming back with coronavirus from abroad and it spreading through social distancing in Wales. He went on to explain how 3 people coming back with coronavirus led to 13 people ending up infected and went through how each became infected. Since the beginning of September there has been 503 new cases and now of in excess of 30 and probably many more who have come back from abroad causing these infections.
The events in Cardiff and in pubs elsewhere as you previously outlined hasnt helped but we have had god knows how many come back here with infections from abroad who have led to hundreds being infected. This is the result of the Air Bridges policy you have been supporting. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 13:51]
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You don't understand what I have said do you?
A group of lads from Maesteg have gone to Laganas on the p1ss, they've met other people (male and female) from elsewhere in the UK. NW England, Leicester and places like that. They've gone there with the aim of doing anything other than social distancing in fact actually looking for a particular type of social interaction. Some of them will have been successful. They'll be spending a fortnight living in small apartments with their mates. They'll have caught the virus from British people in Greece, spread in amongst themselves and then bring it home with them.
I've been there and done it myself.
So it is likely to have been transmitted between british people who happen to be abroad. The air bridge thing is misleading. It could have easily been the situation had they gone to butlins but travelled by bus. | | | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:59 - Sep 8 with 1233 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:58 - Sep 8 by Scotia |
You don't understand what I have said do you?
A group of lads from Maesteg have gone to Laganas on the p1ss, they've met other people (male and female) from elsewhere in the UK. NW England, Leicester and places like that. They've gone there with the aim of doing anything other than social distancing in fact actually looking for a particular type of social interaction. Some of them will have been successful. They'll be spending a fortnight living in small apartments with their mates. They'll have caught the virus from British people in Greece, spread in amongst themselves and then bring it home with them.
I've been there and done it myself.
So it is likely to have been transmitted between british people who happen to be abroad. The air bridge thing is misleading. It could have easily been the situation had they gone to butlins but travelled by bus. |
0COMMENTS
ByCathy OwenBreaking News Editor
12:39, 8 SEP 2020
NEWS
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A group of people returned from Ibiza with the virus (Image: David Ramos/Getty Images)
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More than 13 people were infected after one group of holidaymakers returned home to Wales from a Spanish island with the virus.
The recent case was highlighted by Wales' Health Minister Vaughan Gething during the weekly coronavirus briefing as an example of how quickly the virus can be spread.
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Over recent days, more than 100 cases have been confirmed in Wales, the highest levels since June, and returning holidaymakers have been partly blamed.
Last week, two plane loads of passengers on planes coming back to Cardiff from Greece were told to self-isolate after a number of positive cases were detected.
It lead to the Welsh Government announcing that visitors to six Greek islands, mainland Portugal, Gibraltar and French Polynesia would be included in the list of countries, that includes Spain and France, where people have to quarantine when they return home.
CLICK TO PLAY
THE PEOPLE OF CAERPHILLY HAVE THEIR SAY ON THE NEW LOCAL LOCKDOWN
Using an example of a group of friends who returned from a short holiday in Ibiza in August, Mr Gething showed how the virus spread to more than a dozen:
Three of them came home with coronavirus
After returning home one of the group passed the virus on to their partner and his father
Another person in the group had a party the day after coming home and four people caught coronavirus
One of these then passed the virus on to their brother who then passed it to a friend by sharing a car
Another party guest passed it on to their sister, who in turn infected a friend on a night out
Within just a few days of the friends’ return home, 13 people had coronavirus | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:01 - Sep 8 with 1232 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:58 - Sep 8 by Scotia |
You don't understand what I have said do you?
A group of lads from Maesteg have gone to Laganas on the p1ss, they've met other people (male and female) from elsewhere in the UK. NW England, Leicester and places like that. They've gone there with the aim of doing anything other than social distancing in fact actually looking for a particular type of social interaction. Some of them will have been successful. They'll be spending a fortnight living in small apartments with their mates. They'll have caught the virus from British people in Greece, spread in amongst themselves and then bring it home with them.
I've been there and done it myself.
So it is likely to have been transmitted between british people who happen to be abroad. The air bridge thing is misleading. It could have easily been the situation had they gone to butlins but travelled by bus. |
The evidence speaks for itself. They didnt come back from Butlins like many others havent. Had they stayed in Maesteg, Caerphilly, Swansea or anywhere else and socially distanced it wouldnt have happened but it did. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:14 - Sep 8 with 1225 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:01 - Sep 8 by exhmrc1 |
The evidence speaks for itself. They didnt come back from Butlins like many others havent. Had they stayed in Maesteg, Caerphilly, Swansea or anywhere else and socially distanced it wouldnt have happened but it did. |
If they had gone to NZ it wouldn't have happened either, it wouldn't have happened if they had socially distanced in Greece.
Do you think Mr Gething (not Drakeford, again!) maybe trying to shift the blame a little from the pub situation?
Across the UK and Wales, travel from abroad isn't a huge issue, it is a lack of social distancing elsewhere that is as that article mentions.
We absolutely, 100%, cannot eradicate the virus. We cannot stay in the kind of lock down you want. It may suit you but it harms the majority of the population. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:46 - Sep 8 with 1213 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:14 - Sep 8 by Scotia |
If they had gone to NZ it wouldn't have happened either, it wouldn't have happened if they had socially distanced in Greece.
Do you think Mr Gething (not Drakeford, again!) maybe trying to shift the blame a little from the pub situation?
Across the UK and Wales, travel from abroad isn't a huge issue, it is a lack of social distancing elsewhere that is as that article mentions.
We absolutely, 100%, cannot eradicate the virus. We cannot stay in the kind of lock down you want. It may suit you but it harms the majority of the population. |
There are loads of these cases of people going abroad uninfected and coming back infected. When they have come back they havent had to quarantine so have been free to spread the virus. This is due to Air Bridges and nothing else. I have little doubt there have also been many cases due to pubs or bars as you saw with your father and the photos from Cardiff but certainly a large proportion have come through people holidaying abroad, catching the virus and spreading it. You think this system is a good one but I certainly dont. These are 2 of the main reasons. We certainly were close to getting rid of it but never will because we are attached to England and people could travel freely from highly infected areas there. If we had an island policy like others have we could largely have prevented many of the cases but that wouldnt please you or many others. It is no coincidence that other island states have seen very few cases compared to us but then they closed their borders. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:50 - Sep 8 with 1208 views | Catullus |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:46 - Sep 8 by exhmrc1 |
There are loads of these cases of people going abroad uninfected and coming back infected. When they have come back they havent had to quarantine so have been free to spread the virus. This is due to Air Bridges and nothing else. I have little doubt there have also been many cases due to pubs or bars as you saw with your father and the photos from Cardiff but certainly a large proportion have come through people holidaying abroad, catching the virus and spreading it. You think this system is a good one but I certainly dont. These are 2 of the main reasons. We certainly were close to getting rid of it but never will because we are attached to England and people could travel freely from highly infected areas there. If we had an island policy like others have we could largely have prevented many of the cases but that wouldnt please you or many others. It is no coincidence that other island states have seen very few cases compared to us but then they closed their borders. |
I don't think we were ever close to getting rid of the virus, that's just Lala land in my opinion. Not doing mass testing meant we never knew how many had the virus, there could have been or still be a lot of people carrying this who have no idea. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:56 - Sep 8 with 1205 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:46 - Sep 8 by exhmrc1 |
There are loads of these cases of people going abroad uninfected and coming back infected. When they have come back they havent had to quarantine so have been free to spread the virus. This is due to Air Bridges and nothing else. I have little doubt there have also been many cases due to pubs or bars as you saw with your father and the photos from Cardiff but certainly a large proportion have come through people holidaying abroad, catching the virus and spreading it. You think this system is a good one but I certainly dont. These are 2 of the main reasons. We certainly were close to getting rid of it but never will because we are attached to England and people could travel freely from highly infected areas there. If we had an island policy like others have we could largely have prevented many of the cases but that wouldnt please you or many others. It is no coincidence that other island states have seen very few cases compared to us but then they closed their borders. |
I suggest you move to New Zealand, because the kind of policy you want cannot work in the UK. You may see Drakeford when you are there, because he certianly seems to have gone somewhere? | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:08 - Sep 8 with 1198 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:56 - Sep 8 by Scotia |
I suggest you move to New Zealand, because the kind of policy you want cannot work in the UK. You may see Drakeford when you are there, because he certianly seems to have gone somewhere? |
That is your view but there are numerous countries it has worked. It is just you that doesnt like it.
Interestingly England's deputy chief medical officer thinks people relaxed too much and I agree with him totally. It is this relaxing led by Johnson supported by the likes of you that is leading to our current problems but the Johnson ignored his and other's advice.
We are seeing a situation similar to Caerphilly arising in Neath Port Talbot. Both had very low cases and are seeing a large increase. Neath Port Talbot went 8 days without a single case. Yesterday it had 6 and today 11.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/covid-19-spiked-as-people-relaxed-too | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 22:34 - Sep 8 with 1166 views | Andy1300 |
How not to lead by example.
S | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:17 - Sep 9 with 1114 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:08 - Sep 8 by exhmrc1 |
That is your view but there are numerous countries it has worked. It is just you that doesnt like it.
Interestingly England's deputy chief medical officer thinks people relaxed too much and I agree with him totally. It is this relaxing led by Johnson supported by the likes of you that is leading to our current problems but the Johnson ignored his and other's advice.
We are seeing a situation similar to Caerphilly arising in Neath Port Talbot. Both had very low cases and are seeing a large increase. Neath Port Talbot went 8 days without a single case. Yesterday it had 6 and today 11.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/covid-19-spiked-as-people-relaxed-too |
It will not work for more than a few weeks in somewhere like the UK.
I've also just realised that Vaughan Gething referred to people returing from Ibiza in August yesterday as a cause of infection and you mentioned this was proof air bridges don't work - can you see an issue with that?
People have relaxed too much, some form of enforcement is needed. I support the safe re-opening of the economy not a free for all.
We will see these situations everywhere hopefully over a long period of time. It is a rather importatn time for our first minister to be AWOL. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:24 - Sep 9 with 1113 views | Nortbankboy |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:08 - Sep 8 by exhmrc1 |
That is your view but there are numerous countries it has worked. It is just you that doesnt like it.
Interestingly England's deputy chief medical officer thinks people relaxed too much and I agree with him totally. It is this relaxing led by Johnson supported by the likes of you that is leading to our current problems but the Johnson ignored his and other's advice.
We are seeing a situation similar to Caerphilly arising in Neath Port Talbot. Both had very low cases and are seeing a large increase. Neath Port Talbot went 8 days without a single case. Yesterday it had 6 and today 11.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/covid-19-spiked-as-people-relaxed-too |
It would a good idea if that lazy lying git Boris comes out of
Hiding and addresses the nation on what his plans are for this virus.
Instead of saying from his hide away to get out and eat and back to school
Start flying again to get the economy going.
Then he blames everyone else because the virus is coming back.
The UK needs leadership not a blustering liar | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:09 - Sep 9 with 1108 views | Catullus |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:58 - Sep 8 by Scotia |
You don't understand what I have said do you?
A group of lads from Maesteg have gone to Laganas on the p1ss, they've met other people (male and female) from elsewhere in the UK. NW England, Leicester and places like that. They've gone there with the aim of doing anything other than social distancing in fact actually looking for a particular type of social interaction. Some of them will have been successful. They'll be spending a fortnight living in small apartments with their mates. They'll have caught the virus from British people in Greece, spread in amongst themselves and then bring it home with them.
I've been there and done it myself.
So it is likely to have been transmitted between british people who happen to be abroad. The air bridge thing is misleading. It could have easily been the situation had they gone to butlins but travelled by bus. |
It won't just be people from England/UK they look to "interact" with though.
This rise is being driven by young people who either don't understand or don't care about the ramifications.
Young people may not suffer so badly with it, generally speaking. But when they take it home to their parents, when they pass it on to younger siblings and it rises in schools and spreads further, when grandparents get that longed for hug, that's when the price will start to be paid again.
What it comes down to is trust, we have to be able to trust people to be responsible and most young people, especially after a certain amount of alcohol cannot be trusted. We all know it because most of us have lived it. There are always exceptions but that is mostly true. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:23 - Sep 9 with 1106 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:17 - Sep 9 by Scotia |
It will not work for more than a few weeks in somewhere like the UK.
I've also just realised that Vaughan Gething referred to people returing from Ibiza in August yesterday as a cause of infection and you mentioned this was proof air bridges don't work - can you see an issue with that?
People have relaxed too much, some form of enforcement is needed. I support the safe re-opening of the economy not a free for all.
We will see these situations everywhere hopefully over a long period of time. It is a rather importatn time for our first minister to be AWOL. |
Johnson has been having a free for all and we are all paying for it. At the beginning of August he put changes on hold because of rising cases. 2 weeks later with cases rising more he introduced the same changes which you supported. The fact is that all his efforts to get the economy moving have caused what we are now facing. He has continually ignored the scientific and medical advice he was given and that is why we are now having problems. It has never been due to the big city syndrome and south asian element as you keep claiming. If that was the case then somewhere like Singapore would have had problems but they havent. Ask yourself why. The reasons are obvious. The stopped the virus coming in. We encouraged it by having people go on holidays and bringing it back.
As far as Gething's comments they are right. August was 8 days before yesterday and the testing can be up to 5 days before they get reported. People can have it in them for 10 days before having symptoms so that would take it back to late August. We might see a drop in these cases as the peak holiday season in August has ceased so fewer people will be going abroad.
Suggestions like the opening of fans in stadium and telling people to back to work is nutty at the present time but Johnson has been making these idiotic statements.
I have no doubt Drakeford will return shortly. Wherever he is he will be in contact with Gething anyway unless of course he is ill. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:28 - Sep 9 with 1104 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:24 - Sep 9 by Nortbankboy |
It would a good idea if that lazy lying git Boris comes out of
Hiding and addresses the nation on what his plans are for this virus.
Instead of saying from his hide away to get out and eat and back to school
Start flying again to get the economy going.
Then he blames everyone else because the virus is coming back.
The UK needs leadership not a blustering liar |
Boris is an idiot. Him pushing people back to the office when they can work perfectly well at home is moronic. He's not fit to lead this country.
But at the same time where is Mark Drakeford? He hasn't attended the last three weekly press conferences, kids have gone back to school and Caerphilly has gone in to lock down. There is no sign of him. We don't have to look that far up the M4 to find someone not fit to lead a country. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:39 - Sep 9 with 1100 views | Catullus |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:23 - Sep 9 by exhmrc1 |
Johnson has been having a free for all and we are all paying for it. At the beginning of August he put changes on hold because of rising cases. 2 weeks later with cases rising more he introduced the same changes which you supported. The fact is that all his efforts to get the economy moving have caused what we are now facing. He has continually ignored the scientific and medical advice he was given and that is why we are now having problems. It has never been due to the big city syndrome and south asian element as you keep claiming. If that was the case then somewhere like Singapore would have had problems but they havent. Ask yourself why. The reasons are obvious. The stopped the virus coming in. We encouraged it by having people go on holidays and bringing it back.
As far as Gething's comments they are right. August was 8 days before yesterday and the testing can be up to 5 days before they get reported. People can have it in them for 10 days before having symptoms so that would take it back to late August. We might see a drop in these cases as the peak holiday season in August has ceased so fewer people will be going abroad.
Suggestions like the opening of fans in stadium and telling people to back to work is nutty at the present time but Johnson has been making these idiotic statements.
I have no doubt Drakeford will return shortly. Wherever he is he will be in contact with Gething anyway unless of course he is ill. |
Your comment about Singapore, I'd have to question that. They would mostly be wearing masks, they would probably obey social distancing more responsibly, they are not as touchy feely as Europeans. They obey rules better, partly because the rules out there are quite strictly enforced.
Singapore is a bad example. Large cities with bars and restaurants open are a problem, We shouldn't have crowds allowed at big sporting events yet. We need to close down any business that can't or won't enforce distancing. Yet we still need to get the conomy back up and running where feasible. It's a difficult, highly complicated issue and we can argue back and forth on here but none of us, not even the very best expert (so definitely not me) will know who was right for years when hindsight has kicked in. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:09 - Sep 9 with 1090 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:39 - Sep 9 by Catullus |
Your comment about Singapore, I'd have to question that. They would mostly be wearing masks, they would probably obey social distancing more responsibly, they are not as touchy feely as Europeans. They obey rules better, partly because the rules out there are quite strictly enforced.
Singapore is a bad example. Large cities with bars and restaurants open are a problem, We shouldn't have crowds allowed at big sporting events yet. We need to close down any business that can't or won't enforce distancing. Yet we still need to get the conomy back up and running where feasible. It's a difficult, highly complicated issue and we can argue back and forth on here but none of us, not even the very best expert (so definitely not me) will know who was right for years when hindsight has kicked in. |
I think your first paragraph is largely correct but the evidence in Wales shows that even without people using masks the figures have come down hugely. From 391 in a day in April to 12, 13 and 8 on consecutive days in Mid August so the mask issue has been a total red herring. What has happened is that since that time people have been going to places like St Mary's Street in Cardiff and flooding the place without social distancing and going abroad, catching the virus bringing it back and spreading it and for those reasons the figures have rocketed. Those are the changes that have occurred that weren't happening before. Not using masks hasnt been the reason although in enclosed spaces where you are close to others for longer periods they might be adviseable. The places where are close to people for longer include classrooms, workplaces, gyms and buses. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:15 - Sep 9 with 1085 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:23 - Sep 9 by exhmrc1 |
Johnson has been having a free for all and we are all paying for it. At the beginning of August he put changes on hold because of rising cases. 2 weeks later with cases rising more he introduced the same changes which you supported. The fact is that all his efforts to get the economy moving have caused what we are now facing. He has continually ignored the scientific and medical advice he was given and that is why we are now having problems. It has never been due to the big city syndrome and south asian element as you keep claiming. If that was the case then somewhere like Singapore would have had problems but they havent. Ask yourself why. The reasons are obvious. The stopped the virus coming in. We encouraged it by having people go on holidays and bringing it back.
As far as Gething's comments they are right. August was 8 days before yesterday and the testing can be up to 5 days before they get reported. People can have it in them for 10 days before having symptoms so that would take it back to late August. We might see a drop in these cases as the peak holiday season in August has ceased so fewer people will be going abroad.
Suggestions like the opening of fans in stadium and telling people to back to work is nutty at the present time but Johnson has been making these idiotic statements.
I have no doubt Drakeford will return shortly. Wherever he is he will be in contact with Gething anyway unless of course he is ill. |
I supported the openining of business with enforced social distancing. In Wales at the same time as England - my entire point is that Wales was moving out of a lock down at a slower pace controlled by WG and that it was utterly pointless. This is absolutely clearly the case as our businesses have been open over a month less than England and we are basically in the same position, which was obviously always going to be the case. The downside is our pubs and restaurants have had month less to "feather the nest" for any future lock down.
Please don't cherry pick places with higher case number in England now, I know there will be becasuse of the structure of their cities which for some reason you don't understand. It is irrelevant becasue there are areas of lower cases too.
Gething is incorrect about people returning from Ibiza, and so are you. In August anyone who returned from Spain (Ibiza is in Spain) should have isolated for 2 weeks. no air bridge was in place. If anyone didn't they should have been fined - I note that there was no mention of these people being fined. They should have had the book thrown at them.
It is clear that a major cause of infections is gatherings in homes, in pubs too no doubt, but mainly in homes. Hence the Caerphilly lockdown restrictions. People are more likely to catch the virus because they spend a lot of time close to people. In July and August outbreaks in Leicester and Gtr Manchester were in SE Asian communities becasue they live in large numbers in multigenerational houses. Not becasue they are Asian. People live and spend time closer to each other in urban environments. There is no direct comparison to Singapore. I don't think that is difficult to understand. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:36 - Sep 9 with 1077 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:15 - Sep 9 by Scotia |
I supported the openining of business with enforced social distancing. In Wales at the same time as England - my entire point is that Wales was moving out of a lock down at a slower pace controlled by WG and that it was utterly pointless. This is absolutely clearly the case as our businesses have been open over a month less than England and we are basically in the same position, which was obviously always going to be the case. The downside is our pubs and restaurants have had month less to "feather the nest" for any future lock down.
Please don't cherry pick places with higher case number in England now, I know there will be becasuse of the structure of their cities which for some reason you don't understand. It is irrelevant becasue there are areas of lower cases too.
Gething is incorrect about people returning from Ibiza, and so are you. In August anyone who returned from Spain (Ibiza is in Spain) should have isolated for 2 weeks. no air bridge was in place. If anyone didn't they should have been fined - I note that there was no mention of these people being fined. They should have had the book thrown at them.
It is clear that a major cause of infections is gatherings in homes, in pubs too no doubt, but mainly in homes. Hence the Caerphilly lockdown restrictions. People are more likely to catch the virus because they spend a lot of time close to people. In July and August outbreaks in Leicester and Gtr Manchester were in SE Asian communities becasue they live in large numbers in multigenerational houses. Not becasue they are Asian. People live and spend time closer to each other in urban environments. There is no direct comparison to Singapore. I don't think that is difficult to understand. |
People live extremely closely in Singapore. Do you not realise that. There is limited space there because it is a small island which is both a city and country. Hence the reason I used it rather than Australia where Melbourne and Sydney have 2/5 of its population but are large sprwaling cities with 4 times the population of Birmingham or New Zealand where Auckland another larger city has 1/4 of the New Zealand population. The bottom line is that Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia and Singapore all have extremely low rates and all have strict border controls which we dont have.
As for saying that Air Bridges have not been responsible it is noticeable that Johnson's government have now followed the policy and are today announcing the 30 people who can meet are being reduced to 6. | | | |
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