| When will the penny drop? 00:44 - Aug 18 with 16995 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Everything that was warned about with regards to switching to a style that the players aren’t suited to is now visible to most. There is a very good reason we didn’t start trying to be Brazil of the 1970’s over the last 2 seasons… and as a result saw the side be one of the best in the league… it’s because the manager realised the limitations of the squad and played to their strengths. That’s management.
I am wondering at what point the collective penny will drop that we cannot continue to play this way UNTIL we have the squad capable to do it. The Championship is too strong a league to be doing that, last time we got to this level we were a slick, well oiled machine with players capable of playing Premier League football in Dyer, Williams, Rangel and Britton. That spine would go on to win the League Cup, finish top half in the Premier League and perform well in Europe…. A championship spine it was not.
We had the players with ability leagues above the level they were playing at meaning we could afford to take some risks with regards to playing style. A nearing prime Leon Britton in league 1 seems a bit laughable now doesn’t it? That’s because it was.
The situation sadly is not the same today. We need to play to our strengths, get some points on the board, get the players in that we need and slowly incorporate the system you want. People talk of long term plans… and then change a system overnight?! We will get slaughtered at this level.
How about that actually becomes the longer term plan touted about and we slowly implement it while protecting our Championship status? Too mad an idea?
We do not want to lose our league position and drop down to league 1 as I see some people now happily stating they wouldn’t mind. I find that sad to read and extremely naive.
Relegation won’t mean us having an easy season to test this style against, we will lose even more players, have less income to replace them and the spiral continues. It’s an arrogant point of view to think relegation can be handled easily by the club.
Relegation is not a positive option and the fact we have gone from play offs to the Premier League to accepting the realities and the weighing up of pros and cons of League 1 football in such a short space of time should tell you something ain’t right.
I like Russell Martin, I think he has a good future in the game, my issue is not with him and I hope he stays for a long time to build something. My issue is with the attitude surrounding everything at the moment that we must play a certain way immediately, regardless of the damage it will cause.
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:34 - Aug 19 with 652 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:46 - Aug 19 by onehunglow |
This is what bothers me Dr P.
We may be wrong .I hope we are.
But right now.,Russo is taking us into very dangerous waters |
People are barking at the moment. Truly.
Never in our history has a style chance taken half a year to show signs of success. People just don’t want to admit that we have probably been doing things fairly sensible for a while now.
Noting the severe technical deficiencies of our side sort of raises the white flag to the reason we have not been playing breathtaking football for a while.
Bob Bradley was given almost no time, it was clear what he was doing wasn’t working…. and people are advocating 6 months?! Give me a break. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:37 - Aug 19 with 647 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 12:34 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
People are barking at the moment. Truly.
Never in our history has a style chance taken half a year to show signs of success. People just don’t want to admit that we have probably been doing things fairly sensible for a while now.
Noting the severe technical deficiencies of our side sort of raises the white flag to the reason we have not been playing breathtaking football for a while.
Bob Bradley was given almost no time, it was clear what he was doing wasn’t working…. and people are advocating 6 months?! Give me a break. |
I'd give more than 6 months.
You are saying that it's not going to work until we get better players in.
How on earth are we going to get all these players in within 6 months? |  |
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:40 - Aug 19 with 642 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 12:37 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
I'd give more than 6 months.
You are saying that it's not going to work until we get better players in.
How on earth are we going to get all these players in within 6 months? |
But you aren’t, you are saying we already have the players.
If you actually do agree with me then why on earth are we playing a style with players that aren’t earmarked to play it? | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:54 - Aug 19 with 630 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 12:34 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
People are barking at the moment. Truly.
Never in our history has a style chance taken half a year to show signs of success. People just don’t want to admit that we have probably been doing things fairly sensible for a while now.
Noting the severe technical deficiencies of our side sort of raises the white flag to the reason we have not been playing breathtaking football for a while.
Bob Bradley was given almost no time, it was clear what he was doing wasn’t working…. and people are advocating 6 months?! Give me a break. |
Potter finished 10th.
To you, that's not even showing a success after a full year. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:56 - Aug 19 with 629 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 12:40 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
But you aren’t, you are saying we already have the players.
If you actually do agree with me then why on earth are we playing a style with players that aren’t earmarked to play it? |
Yes I'm saying we have the players to play the system to a certain degree.
For promotion, we will need more players.
I'm saying that I am willing to wait more than 6 moths for the players to get it right. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:57 - Aug 19 with 626 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 12:54 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
Potter finished 10th.
To you, that's not even showing a success after a full year. |
It was an acceptable finish. Not good, but acceptable.
What point are you making there? | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:58 - Aug 19 with 623 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 12:57 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
It was an acceptable finish. Not good, but acceptable.
What point are you making there? |
So if RM finishes 10th, you'll be satisfied? | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:59 - Aug 19 with 622 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 12:56 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
Yes I'm saying we have the players to play the system to a certain degree.
For promotion, we will need more players.
I'm saying that I am willing to wait more than 6 moths for the players to get it right. |
Which degree would that be then?
If we are in the relegation zone at Xmas, have they played the system to your certain degree then? | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 13:07 - Aug 19 with 618 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 12:58 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
So if RM finishes 10th, you'll be satisfied? |
I’d be delighted. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 13:15 - Aug 19 with 612 views | Chief |
Everything everyone is saying is easier said than done, that's a given. Let's get that clear.
I maybe being harsh because we do have injuries, but the most disappointing aspect so far is how far the defence has regressed. It doesn't appear there's been too much work on it in training from what's been seen so far. Yes we've lost Guehi but Brandon C is the one bright spot so far& Cabango should have improved too. But to me all the good work Cooper/Margetson did in that department has been thrown out. Not easy I know because the people training the players have gone, yet Tate remains, Bennetts a senior pro.
I don't have any issue with going forward really with the players we have (although I'd prefer wingers) But they didn't exactly inherit a free scoring squad from Cooper minus Ayew anyway, but I think Downes is an instant upgrade in midfield with his energy and passing.
Basically what I'm saying is why don't let the shackles loose for the midfield / top and experiment there with personnel/more expansive tactics, while keeping the defence water tight for now, until the team has more time to train under Martin but without throwing the inexperienced Benda under the bus every match. |  |
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| When will the penny drop? on 13:17 - Aug 19 with 609 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 12:59 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Which degree would that be then?
If we are in the relegation zone at Xmas, have they played the system to your certain degree then? |
Not all about league position for me tbh | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 13:19 - Aug 19 with 608 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 13:15 - Aug 19 by Chief |
Everything everyone is saying is easier said than done, that's a given. Let's get that clear.
I maybe being harsh because we do have injuries, but the most disappointing aspect so far is how far the defence has regressed. It doesn't appear there's been too much work on it in training from what's been seen so far. Yes we've lost Guehi but Brandon C is the one bright spot so far& Cabango should have improved too. But to me all the good work Cooper/Margetson did in that department has been thrown out. Not easy I know because the people training the players have gone, yet Tate remains, Bennetts a senior pro.
I don't have any issue with going forward really with the players we have (although I'd prefer wingers) But they didn't exactly inherit a free scoring squad from Cooper minus Ayew anyway, but I think Downes is an instant upgrade in midfield with his energy and passing.
Basically what I'm saying is why don't let the shackles loose for the midfield / top and experiment there with personnel/more expansive tactics, while keeping the defence water tight for now, until the team has more time to train under Martin but without throwing the inexperienced Benda under the bus every match. |
Perfect summary and my view in a nutshell.
It’s perfectly reasonable to have a pragmatic defensive system while being expansive when in attack.
Stoke did it very well.
Half the amount of passes, half the amount of possession, no nonsense in defence and aggressive in midfield and attack… and could have won 6-1. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 13:24 - Aug 19 with 606 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 13:15 - Aug 19 by Chief |
Everything everyone is saying is easier said than done, that's a given. Let's get that clear.
I maybe being harsh because we do have injuries, but the most disappointing aspect so far is how far the defence has regressed. It doesn't appear there's been too much work on it in training from what's been seen so far. Yes we've lost Guehi but Brandon C is the one bright spot so far& Cabango should have improved too. But to me all the good work Cooper/Margetson did in that department has been thrown out. Not easy I know because the people training the players have gone, yet Tate remains, Bennetts a senior pro.
I don't have any issue with going forward really with the players we have (although I'd prefer wingers) But they didn't exactly inherit a free scoring squad from Cooper minus Ayew anyway, but I think Downes is an instant upgrade in midfield with his energy and passing.
Basically what I'm saying is why don't let the shackles loose for the midfield / top and experiment there with personnel/more expansive tactics, while keeping the defence water tight for now, until the team has more time to train under Martin but without throwing the inexperienced Benda under the bus every match. |
Yeah I agree, the defence has gone backwards, but thats because of the changes I suggest.
There has been little time to work on anything in training yet.
Think I heard RM saying that they have had less than a week on the grass. Most time has been on the screens and recuperation time.
The whole set up has changed though.
The whole defensive system is different, from how they line up, what the WBs do, where the CBs need to position themselves.
I personally think that the whole team needs to work together in this system.
You can't ask the attack and midfield to play in RM's way, but hold back with the defence for a while, because the defence is inclusive in how the rest of the team sets up. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 13:46 - Aug 19 with 600 views | Fireboy2 |
| When will the penny drop? on 09:27 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
More people around the globe watched us meekly crumble in the final than they have seen us meekly crumble this season in our 3 games combined that’s for sure.
As for who he attracted, I think that’s half the issue why he left. He wasn’t getting what he was clearly stating we needed.
They signed Piroe, would have have come here if we had just finished 21st? |
Well the people who watched us in the play off final would have been put off by our performance, you agree?
At least the people watching us live and on the box currently are proper fans. |  | | |
| When will the penny drop? on 13:54 - Aug 19 with 594 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 13:46 - Aug 19 by Fireboy2 |
Well the people who watched us in the play off final would have been put off by our performance, you agree?
At least the people watching us live and on the box currently are proper fans. |
Not at all, those people, like me recognised we were 90 mins away from the Premier League and on an upward trajectory… 10th, 6th, 4th.
I’d absolutely want to be part of that.
You say that, if we continue playing this way the Swansea.com crowd will be among its lowest pre covid for a long time. Add relegation into that it will be even lower.
“Entertainment” will be found elsewhere despite this apparently being the new and improved form of said entertainment. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 13:56 - Aug 19 with 591 views | Treforys_Jack |
| When will the penny drop? on 13:54 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not at all, those people, like me recognised we were 90 mins away from the Premier League and on an upward trajectory… 10th, 6th, 4th.
I’d absolutely want to be part of that.
You say that, if we continue playing this way the Swansea.com crowd will be among its lowest pre covid for a long time. Add relegation into that it will be even lower.
“Entertainment” will be found elsewhere despite this apparently being the new and improved form of said entertainment. |
You talk like entertainment is a dirty word. |  | | |
| When will the penny drop? on 14:01 - Aug 19 with 585 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 13:56 - Aug 19 by Treforys_Jack |
You talk like entertainment is a dirty word. |
Where?
I was saying that by giving the crowd this “entertainment”, crowds will dwindle like we haven’t seen before in recent times.
One mans entertainment is another mans dross. If you think pinging the ball around the back and losing 3-1 every week is going to captivate people then I think the term entertainment isn’t fully understood. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 14:05 - Aug 19 with 579 views | onehunglow |
| When will the penny drop? on 14:01 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Where?
I was saying that by giving the crowd this “entertainment”, crowds will dwindle like we haven’t seen before in recent times.
One mans entertainment is another mans dross. If you think pinging the ball around the back and losing 3-1 every week is going to captivate people then I think the term entertainment isn’t fully understood. |
Nothing entertaining about seeing your team be stuffed.It might appeal to masochists but Im more a sadist.
No amount of entertaining warlocks will assuage the pain of losing. At least it should do.
It is all about glory,it really is.ALL sport is. |  |
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| When will the penny drop? on 14:06 - Aug 19 with 582 views | vetchonian |
| When will the penny drop? on 13:17 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
Not all about league position for me tbh |
it is though for the owners!! They want ( and need for ) us to be back in the PL.and not in 3-4 years either.
For me its a combination I want to see succesful entertaining football.....and surely for most fans what we want is to see our team win?
Yes wonderful watching Barcelonaesque football but getting beaten often......
If we do not get successful elements of the crowd will drift ...they went already post relegation as some just want the PL expereience.....I ve been there in the bad old days and yes it can be said that then it is the "true" die hard hard core fans who are there but the club couldnt survive with just that level of support . | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 14:08 - Aug 19 with 579 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 14:01 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Where?
I was saying that by giving the crowd this “entertainment”, crowds will dwindle like we haven’t seen before in recent times.
One mans entertainment is another mans dross. If you think pinging the ball around the back and losing 3-1 every week is going to captivate people then I think the term entertainment isn’t fully understood. |
It's about gradual improvement though, init? | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 14:11 - Aug 19 with 575 views | onehunglow |
Burnley aren't exactly "entertaining " but ask their fans if they would rather be back in the Championship or strutting their stuff where they are.
We are still making excuses and clearly hurt at tumbling out of the PL when it was very hard to do so. The performances against Southampton and Sjoke still resonates in all the wrong ways. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 14:11 - Aug 19 with 577 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 14:08 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
It's about gradual improvement though, init? |
Depends how gradual. Improvement needs to be seen fairly quickly, the end goal can be a gradual process but being mediocre league whipping boys for months on end with the promise “it will get better one day, long term plan innt”.. will not be acceptable on any level. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 14:13 - Aug 19 with 576 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 14:06 - Aug 19 by vetchonian |
it is though for the owners!! They want ( and need for ) us to be back in the PL.and not in 3-4 years either.
For me its a combination I want to see succesful entertaining football.....and surely for most fans what we want is to see our team win?
Yes wonderful watching Barcelonaesque football but getting beaten often......
If we do not get successful elements of the crowd will drift ...they went already post relegation as some just want the PL expereience.....I ve been there in the bad old days and yes it can be said that then it is the "true" die hard hard core fans who are there but the club couldnt survive with just that level of support . |
It's not though mate.
Finishing 15th this season, is the same to the owners as finishing 10th. It's not about the position, its about the improvement as a whole.
If we finish 10th this season, with a much cheaper squad, with players who are ours, young players getting used to attractive football....
Do you think the owners will think..."Ah fk this, we finished 4th last year!".
No, it will be an astounding success.
Position means very little, until we are at the level where we can compete at the top of the table.
If you think we have the players and squad to play in the premier league right now, you must be mad. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 14:15 - Aug 19 with 572 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 14:11 - Aug 19 by onehunglow |
Burnley aren't exactly "entertaining " but ask their fans if they would rather be back in the Championship or strutting their stuff where they are.
We are still making excuses and clearly hurt at tumbling out of the PL when it was very hard to do so. The performances against Southampton and Sjoke still resonates in all the wrong ways. |
And also ask Swans fans if they are willing to revert to Burnley, or Tony Pulis style of play, simply for a better chance of getting back to the prem, I'm sure you'll have little response/. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 14:17 - Aug 19 with 570 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 14:11 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Depends how gradual. Improvement needs to be seen fairly quickly, the end goal can be a gradual process but being mediocre league whipping boys for months on end with the promise “it will get better one day, long term plan innt”.. will not be acceptable on any level. |
Not by you no.
But by the board, or by a lot of other fans, including me, it is totally acceptable.
If I was told now, that if we stick with RM, he will stick with us and not leave and in 15 years we will be back at the top of the championship, with a clear identity, strong squad, and truly battling year on year to get back into the prem, I'd be well happy with that. | |
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