| When will the penny drop? 00:44 - Aug 18 with 16994 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Everything that was warned about with regards to switching to a style that the players aren’t suited to is now visible to most. There is a very good reason we didn’t start trying to be Brazil of the 1970’s over the last 2 seasons… and as a result saw the side be one of the best in the league… it’s because the manager realised the limitations of the squad and played to their strengths. That’s management.
I am wondering at what point the collective penny will drop that we cannot continue to play this way UNTIL we have the squad capable to do it. The Championship is too strong a league to be doing that, last time we got to this level we were a slick, well oiled machine with players capable of playing Premier League football in Dyer, Williams, Rangel and Britton. That spine would go on to win the League Cup, finish top half in the Premier League and perform well in Europe…. A championship spine it was not.
We had the players with ability leagues above the level they were playing at meaning we could afford to take some risks with regards to playing style. A nearing prime Leon Britton in league 1 seems a bit laughable now doesn’t it? That’s because it was.
The situation sadly is not the same today. We need to play to our strengths, get some points on the board, get the players in that we need and slowly incorporate the system you want. People talk of long term plans… and then change a system overnight?! We will get slaughtered at this level.
How about that actually becomes the longer term plan touted about and we slowly implement it while protecting our Championship status? Too mad an idea?
We do not want to lose our league position and drop down to league 1 as I see some people now happily stating they wouldn’t mind. I find that sad to read and extremely naive.
Relegation won’t mean us having an easy season to test this style against, we will lose even more players, have less income to replace them and the spiral continues. It’s an arrogant point of view to think relegation can be handled easily by the club.
Relegation is not a positive option and the fact we have gone from play offs to the Premier League to accepting the realities and the weighing up of pros and cons of League 1 football in such a short space of time should tell you something ain’t right.
I like Russell Martin, I think he has a good future in the game, my issue is not with him and I hope he stays for a long time to build something. My issue is with the attitude surrounding everything at the moment that we must play a certain way immediately, regardless of the damage it will cause.
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:31 - Aug 19 with 648 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 14:24 - Aug 18 by Dr_Parnassus |
There is nothing to buy, it’s just simply a fact.
Again, it’s not just about passing 5 yards. It’s about passing accurately under pressure, having the vision and intelligence to do it to an area that isn’t going to put the receiver under pressure whilst also being aware of the opposition positioning up field so the passes then have purpose.
It’s not something you work on in training and good to go in a couple of months. This is something you can either do or you can’t by this age. Training will enhance it and perfect it, but if you can’t play this way then you are not likely to be able to any time soon. Tate is a fine example of having a player in the side who others can cover for if you have those specialists in your side.
The likes of Britton were a god send to them. Any trouble give it to Leon and he would steer the ball into the correct channel and away from the press. We don’t have a Leon, we don’t have an Ashley Williams to look up and spray a 40 yard pass to the wingers feet, we don’t have a striker to pass to who can hold the ball up allowing the play to be shifted from the defensive 2 thirds to the attacking 2 thirds, we don’t have wingers who act as outballs which stop the opposition from wanting to commit too much to the press etc etc etc etc etc
There is an awful lot that goes into this style of play. Far more than “any pro can pass 5 yards” as seems to be the buzz sentence recently. There are many facets we need specialists at which allows that style to work, we have almost none of those components. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 14:33]
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I'd say it's more about the whole team working together to get in the correct positions. Once the tactics are understood, there will be easier outballs for all our players, due to their teammates knowing where they need to be at specific times in the build up/defending.
Practice will not only make our players be able to pass better and quicker, it will also enable the other players to make and be in the correct spaces. |  |
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:32 - Aug 19 with 645 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 22:20 - Aug 18 by vetchonian |
Dont forget we finsihed 4th last season and lost a play off final to the losoing finalists fro/m the season before and you would be happy to just avoid relegation or setlle for mid table |
You're living in the past mate.
We have to look at where we are right now, not last season. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:37 - Aug 19 with 643 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 07:39 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
That’s great if we are committing to the project, but that doesn’t mean we have to implement it from day 1 before all the pieces are in place.
It needs to be more intelligent and measured than that.
I would say implementing a playing style before the club is ready is the epitome of short termism. How are we going to get the players needed when we are on a downward spiral? If we get relegated not only does our scope of players go down drastically, so do the pool of players we have already amassed.
Flynn Downes for example was brought in for the project yet I’m sure he left Ipswich because they were in league 1 and wanted to play at a higher level.
There is no way people should “get used to it” when it comes to needless and brainless mediocrity. If it has a future we will do it, but not at the detriment of the club, and anyone who expects people to condone that need their heads examined. |
He didn't leave Ipswich because they were in League 1, no.
He left because they fked him about. He has said as much in several interviews after arriving here. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:38 - Aug 19 with 643 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 08:09 - Aug 19 by PatchesOHoulihan |
We’re 3 games in - we are a long way from being relegated and struggling to bring in players. You could argue that the way we are trying to play would attract more players who want to play in that style who may not be interested if we were more pragmatic. We’ve got a manager in who clearly believes in his own style and philosophy (I hate that word in football) and we’ve entrusted him to run the team. He said at the start there would be bumps in the road. |
Exactly why Flynn Downes wanted to come here. As he has stated. The style of play and the manager.
Same for Ethan Laird I imagine.
Paterson has said similar. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:51 - Aug 19 with 635 views | onehunglow |
| When will the penny drop? on 09:38 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
Exactly why Flynn Downes wanted to come here. As he has stated. The style of play and the manager.
Same for Ethan Laird I imagine.
Paterson has said similar. |
They won't be able to play that style if their colleagues aren't up to it.
As you say,this is Now.
Too many look backwards to seasons to fit their own narrative and to make themselves feel better. |  |
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:54 - Aug 19 with 632 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 09:32 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
You're living in the past mate.
We have to look at where we are right now, not last season. |
21st? | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:56 - Aug 19 with 630 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 09:51 - Aug 19 by onehunglow |
They won't be able to play that style if their colleagues aren't up to it.
As you say,this is Now.
Too many look backwards to seasons to fit their own narrative and to make themselves feel better. |
Course they will. THey'll be able to play it just fine. If their colleagues can't do it, they will get replaced.
The more players we bring in who want to play this way and who are confident in doing so, the quicker our players will learn and improve.
The longer we decide to stick to a more pragmatic setup, the more disillusioned and confused the players will become.
We tried the pragmatic crap. It did not work.
It almost did, but it didn't. And we are worse off because of it.
If we had continued Potter's work, we may be back in the prem by now. Instead, we are 2 years behind and more or less back to square one. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:56 - Aug 19 with 629 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 09:37 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
He didn't leave Ipswich because they were in League 1, no.
He left because they fked him about. He has said as much in several interviews after arriving here. |
Right, just a coincidence he wanted to leave after they got relegated then…
If you think our players will have as much desire to play for us after relegation then I really don’t know what to say.
People are on another planet at the moment. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:58 - Aug 19 with 625 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 09:56 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Right, just a coincidence he wanted to leave after they got relegated then…
If you think our players will have as much desire to play for us after relegation then I really don’t know what to say.
People are on another planet at the moment. |
He was pissed off because they tunred down Crystal Palace bids. Nothing to do with relegation. Or is he lying? | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 09:59 - Aug 19 with 624 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 09:51 - Aug 19 by onehunglow |
They won't be able to play that style if their colleagues aren't up to it.
As you say,this is Now.
Too many look backwards to seasons to fit their own narrative and to make themselves feel better. |
Yep, you can carry one or two with some absolute specialists in the team such as Rangel, Britton, Williams, Allen, Dyer… it’s not a “come to improve your skills” holiday camp. This is among the most competitive leagues in the world.
The lack of understanding of what it takes to play this style from a large part of our fan base is staggering, it really has come as a bit of a shock. The amount of comments of “being able to pass 5 yards” literally has me shaking my head as I’m reading. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:00 - Aug 19 with 620 views | onehunglow |
| When will the penny drop? on 09:56 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
Course they will. THey'll be able to play it just fine. If their colleagues can't do it, they will get replaced.
The more players we bring in who want to play this way and who are confident in doing so, the quicker our players will learn and improve.
The longer we decide to stick to a more pragmatic setup, the more disillusioned and confused the players will become.
We tried the pragmatic crap. It did not work.
It almost did, but it didn't. And we are worse off because of it.
If we had continued Potter's work, we may be back in the prem by now. Instead, we are 2 years behind and more or less back to square one. |
And there is the rub.
Bringing in players.
If we can't ,it seems we're stiffed as Russ only wants to play one way,how evermany games we lose.
We'll have to see what unfolds anyway.
Right now,we have every right to feel apprehensive and there is nothing wrong with that but there is everything wrong about buying into a plan of a manager who is basically unproven. Like Cooper,a gamble. I don't like gambling. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:01 - Aug 19 with 620 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 09:59 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yep, you can carry one or two with some absolute specialists in the team such as Rangel, Britton, Williams, Allen, Dyer… it’s not a “come to improve your skills” holiday camp. This is among the most competitive leagues in the world.
The lack of understanding of what it takes to play this style from a large part of our fan base is staggering, it really has come as a bit of a shock. The amount of comments of “being able to pass 5 yards” literally has me shaking my head as I’m reading. |
You are so much more tactically aware than the rest of us peasants, master. Pease forgive me for my insolence  | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:04 - Aug 19 with 618 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:01 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
You are so much more tactically aware than the rest of us peasants, master. Pease forgive me for my insolence |
It really shouldn’t be described as “tactically aware” to know this tiki taka football doesn’t consist of simply being able to make a 5 yard pass. Just a very basic level of football knowledge. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:05 - Aug 19 with 616 views | onehunglow |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:01 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
You are so much more tactically aware than the rest of us peasants, master. Pease forgive me for my insolence |
Dr P is pointing out what to me is obvious.
To build ,one has to have raw materials. We don't have the players nor will we to play this high risk "plan". Why risk conceding goals anyway in the manner we did v Stoke. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:08 - Aug 19 with 610 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:00 - Aug 19 by onehunglow |
And there is the rub.
Bringing in players.
If we can't ,it seems we're stiffed as Russ only wants to play one way,how evermany games we lose.
We'll have to see what unfolds anyway.
Right now,we have every right to feel apprehensive and there is nothing wrong with that but there is everything wrong about buying into a plan of a manager who is basically unproven. Like Cooper,a gamble. I don't like gambling. |
We are a gambling club. And I love that.
Much prefer to gamble a bit and have a bit of excitement, rather than place the safe bets, similar to many mid table, safe, Championship sides, and employ the safe "Tony Mowbray"s, or "Mick McCarthy"s. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:10 - Aug 19 with 607 views | magicdaps10 |
Shock horror... Team struggling to change style after 3 league games!!!
Just don't get this question after just 3 league games and 3 weeks... Obvious that it will not happen over night.
Think it's a question to be asked after atleast 6 months.
Anyone who hasn't realised this will do so quick and ones who want to throw it in people's faces need to sort themselves out and act their age(unless of course they are kids). |  |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:12 - Aug 19 with 604 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:04 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
It really shouldn’t be described as “tactically aware” to know this tiki taka football doesn’t consist of simply being able to make a 5 yard pass. Just a very basic level of football knowledge. |
This is what I mean mate. I am extremely ashamed that I did not know anything else about football.
I assumed that it was called football and all they have to do is pass back and fore to eachother in 5 yard passes, until the get to the opposition's goal and then pass it 5 yards into the goal.
What other rules are there? | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:13 - Aug 19 with 603 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:05 - Aug 19 by onehunglow |
Dr P is pointing out what to me is obvious.
To build ,one has to have raw materials. We don't have the players nor will we to play this high risk "plan". Why risk conceding goals anyway in the manner we did v Stoke. |
Because it's a game mate. If there were no risks in football, it would be pretty boring. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:14 - Aug 19 with 601 views | onehunglow |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:08 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
We are a gambling club. And I love that.
Much prefer to gamble a bit and have a bit of excitement, rather than place the safe bets, similar to many mid table, safe, Championship sides, and employ the safe "Tony Mowbray"s, or "Mick McCarthy"s. |
Well,it takes all.
Gambling is caustic and toxic and not needed.
I blame me ol Mum for my insecurity. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:39 - Aug 19 with 589 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:05 - Aug 19 by onehunglow |
Dr P is pointing out what to me is obvious.
To build ,one has to have raw materials. We don't have the players nor will we to play this high risk "plan". Why risk conceding goals anyway in the manner we did v Stoke. |
Of course it’s obvious.
I have a feeling the usual clan also know it’s obvious. It’s hardly complex, basic common sense.
Changing a system is fine, we have done it many times over the last 20 years. From Martinez, to Sousa, to Laudrup to Cooper.
All changed the style and all improved on what was before it, at no point did anyone suggest that potentially relegation could be a realistic part and parcel of that and at no point did I think it was ever a possibility. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:40 - Aug 19 with 587 views | jackrmee |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:39 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Of course it’s obvious.
I have a feeling the usual clan also know it’s obvious. It’s hardly complex, basic common sense.
Changing a system is fine, we have done it many times over the last 20 years. From Martinez, to Sousa, to Laudrup to Cooper.
All changed the style and all improved on what was before it, at no point did anyone suggest that potentially relegation could be a realistic part and parcel of that and at no point did I think it was ever a possibility. |
Yes it was discussed a lot when Potter was struggling. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:42 - Aug 19 with 582 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:10 - Aug 19 by magicdaps10 |
Shock horror... Team struggling to change style after 3 league games!!!
Just don't get this question after just 3 league games and 3 weeks... Obvious that it will not happen over night.
Think it's a question to be asked after atleast 6 months.
Anyone who hasn't realised this will do so quick and ones who want to throw it in people's faces need to sort themselves out and act their age(unless of course they are kids). |
6 months?! 
You reckon 36 games or so? So if it comes to the point where we finally realise we don’t have the players to do this… we have 10 games to save ourselves?
Sounds sensible. | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 10:46 - Aug 19 with 572 views | onehunglow |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:42 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
6 months?!
You reckon 36 games or so? So if it comes to the point where we finally realise we don’t have the players to do this… we have 10 games to save ourselves?
Sounds sensible. |
This is what bothers me Dr P.
We may be wrong .I hope we are.
But right now.,Russo is taking us into very dangerous waters | |
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:31 - Aug 19 with 547 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:10 - Aug 19 by magicdaps10 |
Shock horror... Team struggling to change style after 3 league games!!!
Just don't get this question after just 3 league games and 3 weeks... Obvious that it will not happen over night.
Think it's a question to be asked after atleast 6 months.
Anyone who hasn't realised this will do so quick and ones who want to throw it in people's faces need to sort themselves out and act their age(unless of course they are kids). |
exactly - christmas for me (that may have to be revised depending on what happens) but for now lets just see where it takes us.
Half the people on here would stick every time they played blackjack based on this thread as its the safe move |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| When will the penny drop? on 12:34 - Aug 19 with 541 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| When will the penny drop? on 10:14 - Aug 19 by onehunglow |
Well,it takes all.
Gambling is caustic and toxic and not needed.
I blame me ol Mum for my insecurity. |
haha and thats fair enough as we are all our own people - for me I'm willing to see both sides of the argument and I just happen to come down on the other side to you
Some people on here (not yourself) are completely incapable of seeing the other side of what could happen) | |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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