| John Terry goes on trial this Monday 02:39 - Jul 8 with 52637 views | DylanP |
Terry's trial to start on Monday. Yet another thing to look forward to, Sadly, apparently the maximum he can get is a small fine. However, the humiliation will be a laugh.
Football fans found guilty of racism can be banned from going to football grounds for a while. Wouldn't it be funny if Terry received a football ground ban!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2170238/John-Terry-trial-Anton |  |
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| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 13:59 - Jul 12 with 1502 views | BasingstokeR |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 13:38 - Jul 12 by MarkPerryMason |
I thought I'd wait to hear all the evidence before passing any judgement on the trial and having considered it all I would say I think Terry will be aquitted.
His QC has played it very well in closing on the point of Terry's perception. The QC is stating that effectively it's a two stage consideration to the case. Number one, did AF accuse Terry of saying the words in the first place. If he did then Terry is not guilty. Based on the evidence I think he is in trouble on this point, especially without the ref or obi MIkel giving any evidence to suggest it was said. The lip readers will only work as corroborative evidence but certainly undermines Terry's position. With this argument failing the QC has a fall back position....
Terry made a mistake! He 'thought' he said BC and responded accordingly. The reason this is so effective as a defence is that it can't really be rebutted by the crown. It all comes down to Terry's credibility and whether it has been undermined to such an extent as to mean the court can be sure beyond reasonable doubt. the court can't get into Terry's head so how can they be sure? This is where the prosecution's case will fall. Sad but true. |
Why did the mistake element only just get brought up on the last day of the trial?
Why didn't they just use this the whole last 10 months? e.g. sorry I must have misheard Anton, its all a big misunderstanding?
Also; why did Terry "think" everything when interviewed by police/the FA, and now he's 100% certain about the same things. |  | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:06 - Jul 12 with 1476 views | daveB |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 13:38 - Jul 12 by MarkPerryMason |
I thought I'd wait to hear all the evidence before passing any judgement on the trial and having considered it all I would say I think Terry will be aquitted.
His QC has played it very well in closing on the point of Terry's perception. The QC is stating that effectively it's a two stage consideration to the case. Number one, did AF accuse Terry of saying the words in the first place. If he did then Terry is not guilty. Based on the evidence I think he is in trouble on this point, especially without the ref or obi MIkel giving any evidence to suggest it was said. The lip readers will only work as corroborative evidence but certainly undermines Terry's position. With this argument failing the QC has a fall back position....
Terry made a mistake! He 'thought' he said BC and responded accordingly. The reason this is so effective as a defence is that it can't really be rebutted by the crown. It all comes down to Terry's credibility and whether it has been undermined to such an extent as to mean the court can be sure beyond reasonable doubt. the court can't get into Terry's head so how can they be sure? This is where the prosecution's case will fall. Sad but true. |
Terrys defence seems to be all over the place he reckons Ferdinand said FBC or he miss heard or someone in the crowd said it. he seems to have covered every base.
For me the evidence is clear that he said it and should get the fine but he'll probably get off |  | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:13 - Jul 12 with 1453 views | themodfather |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:06 - Jul 12 by daveB |
Terrys defence seems to be all over the place he reckons Ferdinand said FBC or he miss heard or someone in the crowd said it. he seems to have covered every base.
For me the evidence is clear that he said it and should get the fine but he'll probably get off |
laughable now its someone in the crowd, recall how we all said how loud,raucous it was and now they can hear 1, just 1 voice in the crowd???
he's admitted saying it and now the dispute is over context?? really....
though from the off i have said terry is easily seen to mouth "i NEVER called you a FBC" i thought there was stuff we'd not seen from earlier...??
a while back my older bruv, who is in/out of nick was hit by a car, his shoulder broken and he was ko'd...all he can remember was being shaken by the injured arm, he came round in a bolt of apin , saw an asian man over him and screamed "let go you **** c**t", er, it was a cop and he got a guilty for racial abuse despite his broken shoulder. content and context never entered into it.
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| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:24 - Jul 12 with 1422 views | ElHoop |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:13 - Jul 12 by themodfather |
laughable now its someone in the crowd, recall how we all said how loud,raucous it was and now they can hear 1, just 1 voice in the crowd???
he's admitted saying it and now the dispute is over context?? really....
though from the off i have said terry is easily seen to mouth "i NEVER called you a FBC" i thought there was stuff we'd not seen from earlier...??
a while back my older bruv, who is in/out of nick was hit by a car, his shoulder broken and he was ko'd...all he can remember was being shaken by the injured arm, he came round in a bolt of apin , saw an asian man over him and screamed "let go you **** c**t", er, it was a cop and he got a guilty for racial abuse despite his broken shoulder. content and context never entered into it.
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I think that Terry will be found not guilty but it will still be a result for black players as this case will surely end all of that type of banter? By bringing a charge the CPS have made it clear that there's to be no more of this stuff. I think that most clubs will insist that it stops. It would be nice to think that this case will be the last of its kind. |  | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:28 - Jul 12 with 1403 views | daveB |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:24 - Jul 12 by ElHoop |
I think that Terry will be found not guilty but it will still be a result for black players as this case will surely end all of that type of banter? By bringing a charge the CPS have made it clear that there's to be no more of this stuff. I think that most clubs will insist that it stops. It would be nice to think that this case will be the last of its kind. |
all the case has done is make sure no black players will report this sort of thing again otherwise they'll suffer the same death threats and abuse in court that Ferdinand has faced | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:31 - Jul 12 with 1389 views | Jamie |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:28 - Jul 12 by daveB |
all the case has done is make sure no black players will report this sort of thing again otherwise they'll suffer the same death threats and abuse in court that Ferdinand has faced |
Lest you forget Ferdinand being abused by Chelsea fans at SB despite the case being nothing to do with him.
Even if Terry were found guilty that would continue.
The FA and Kick it Out conspicuously silent on that. | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:41 - Jul 12 with 1353 views | ElHoop |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:28 - Jul 12 by daveB |
all the case has done is make sure no black players will report this sort of thing again otherwise they'll suffer the same death threats and abuse in court that Ferdinand has faced |
It's been very disruptive for both clubs though Dave. No club wants to go through all that stuff. I'd be surprised if the clubs didn't say that there's to be no more of this racist stuff and come down hard on any repeats.
I think that the action was brought to try to draw a line in the sand. Hopefully the line will hold regardless of Terry's fate. | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:46 - Jul 12 with 1331 views | daveB |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:41 - Jul 12 by ElHoop |
It's been very disruptive for both clubs though Dave. No club wants to go through all that stuff. I'd be surprised if the clubs didn't say that there's to be no more of this racist stuff and come down hard on any repeats.
I think that the action was brought to try to draw a line in the sand. Hopefully the line will hold regardless of Terry's fate. |
well if found not guilty it sends out the message that's it's fine to use this language and just say you are repeating it, that won't bring an end to anything. | | | |
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| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:58 - Jul 12 with 1300 views | ElHoop |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:46 - Jul 12 by daveB |
well if found not guilty it sends out the message that's it's fine to use this language and just say you are repeating it, that won't bring an end to anything. |
I think that even Terry will think to himself that he doesn't need another week like this one. Even if he's found not guilty, the court case has been a real bloody nuisance for him. If he's that stupid that he'd still do it again then there's literally no hope for him. | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:03 - Jul 12 with 1279 views | daveB |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 14:58 - Jul 12 by ElHoop |
I think that even Terry will think to himself that he doesn't need another week like this one. Even if he's found not guilty, the court case has been a real bloody nuisance for him. If he's that stupid that he'd still do it again then there's literally no hope for him. |
he might not do it again but others will | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:08 - Jul 12 with 1265 views | MarkPerryMason |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 13:59 - Jul 12 by BasingstokeR |
Why did the mistake element only just get brought up on the last day of the trial?
Why didn't they just use this the whole last 10 months? e.g. sorry I must have misheard Anton, its all a big misunderstanding?
Also; why did Terry "think" everything when interviewed by police/the FA, and now he's 100% certain about the same things. |
The mistake element would always be the fall back for Terry just in case the Court sided with AF's account of what he said. By stating so categorically that AF said it to him only reinforces his initial 'mistake' being a genuine one. Why run one defence when you can run two. I still can't believe there is QC dealing with a non imprisonable offence! | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:29 - Jul 12 with 1223 views | Speediesdouble |
As I've said from day one a complete waste of tax payers money driven by a media circus !
I kept thinking some damning evidence must surely exist or else why did the CPS take it this far....still waiting.
More than enough reasonable doubt for the only possible verdict to be "not guilty" the only way it Terry can be found guilty is if the magistrate makes a judgement call, because there is no clear evidence and I'm not sure if he has that kind of leeway.
Having said that I'm sure he will reprimand both Ferdinand and Terry on their behaviour as being unacceptable, role models bla, bla, bla.
Once this is over the FA should pull in the pair and ban them for three games if they want to send out a message that the kind of behaviour displayed by and admitted to by the pair won't be tolerated.....but I'm guessing they won't as they'll be opening up a huge can of worms. | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:35 - Jul 12 with 1209 views | Northernr |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:29 - Jul 12 by Speediesdouble |
As I've said from day one a complete waste of tax payers money driven by a media circus !
I kept thinking some damning evidence must surely exist or else why did the CPS take it this far....still waiting.
More than enough reasonable doubt for the only possible verdict to be "not guilty" the only way it Terry can be found guilty is if the magistrate makes a judgement call, because there is no clear evidence and I'm not sure if he has that kind of leeway.
Having said that I'm sure he will reprimand both Ferdinand and Terry on their behaviour as being unacceptable, role models bla, bla, bla.
Once this is over the FA should pull in the pair and ban them for three games if they want to send out a message that the kind of behaviour displayed by and admitted to by the pair won't be tolerated.....but I'm guessing they won't as they'll be opening up a huge can of worms. |
Ban Ferdinand for three games? 
Yeh, that'll send a great message out. |  | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:40 - Jul 12 with 1191 views | kensalriser |
17 pages later and I can still seen only two points.
1. We know he said '...fbc'
2. There is no evidence that it was anything but a slur. |  |
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| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:42 - Jul 12 with 1178 views | Speediesdouble |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:35 - Jul 12 by Northernr |
Ban Ferdinand for three games?
Yeh, that'll send a great message out. |
I take it you're struggling with the whole incident and have got yourself completely hung up on the use of the word "black"
Ferdinands behaviour, swearing, gestures and slanderous remarks (which he conviniently forgot to mention) led to the whole situation.
Are you saying players can insult and make any gestures they want and that's ok as long as they don't mention a colour ? | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:47 - Jul 12 with 1410 views | Jamie |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:42 - Jul 12 by Speediesdouble |
I take it you're struggling with the whole incident and have got yourself completely hung up on the use of the word "black"
Ferdinands behaviour, swearing, gestures and slanderous remarks (which he conviniently forgot to mention) led to the whole situation.
Are you saying players can insult and make any gestures they want and that's ok as long as they don't mention a colour ? |
I believe you will find it was started by Terry calling Ferdinand a cnt, to which Ferdinand replied 'shagging your team mates missus, that's what i'd call a cnt' | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:47 - Jul 12 with 1412 views | QPR_Jim |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:42 - Jul 12 by Speediesdouble |
I take it you're struggling with the whole incident and have got yourself completely hung up on the use of the word "black"
Ferdinands behaviour, swearing, gestures and slanderous remarks (which he conviniently forgot to mention) led to the whole situation.
Are you saying players can insult and make any gestures they want and that's ok as long as they don't mention a colour ? |
I take it your struggling with the term racist remark.
Terry wasn't singing a f*cking rainbow, he said that "colour" in a derogatory and abusive manor and no amount of stick or swearing warrants that kind of response. |  | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:47 - Jul 12 with 1412 views | 18StoneOfHoop |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:08 - Jul 12 by MarkPerryMason |
The mistake element would always be the fall back for Terry just in case the Court sided with AF's account of what he said. By stating so categorically that AF said it to him only reinforces his initial 'mistake' being a genuine one. Why run one defence when you can run two. I still can't believe there is QC dealing with a non imprisonable offence! |
MarkPerryMason,I dimly remember you being almost bang on the money in your Pre-Faurlin Decision Prediction ..can you remind us what you said then? -thus establishing good credibility for your opinions about this one.Also what's your role in the legal biz again?
Even if he's let off without a stain on his character to go in peace and continue to 'honourably' serve both club and country by the presiding magistrate what I'm really looking forward to is the Saturday newspapers.
Sanctimonious moralists,leader writers and columnists from both left and right will be queuing round the block,champing at the bit to give JT the mother of all metaphorical shoeings.
Our old mate Rod Liddle,David Aaronovitch,Matthew Parrish,Kevin Maguire,Simon Jenkins,Peter Oborne,Max Hastings,Daniel Finkelstein,Melanie Phillips,Andrew Rawnsley,Amanda Platell,Peter Hitchens,Trevor Phillips,Simon Heffer,Zoe Williams,Janet Daley,Trevor Kavanagh,Yasmine Alibhaiah-Brown...all these and many more and I haven't even mentioned footie hacks - will be itching for their sixpennyworth.I can imagine a nice double-page spread in The Independent for example with a photo 'Is This The Most Hated Man In Britain?'
...which would be nice. 
Oooh I just thought..Newsnight and Paxo grilling Bruce Buck on the Friday night at 10:30 about CFC's casual laissez-faire attitude to their Club Captain's racism might also be fun...can't wait. |  |
| 'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please. |
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| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:48 - Jul 12 with 1408 views | kensalriser |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:42 - Jul 12 by Speediesdouble |
I take it you're struggling with the whole incident and have got yourself completely hung up on the use of the word "black"
Ferdinands behaviour, swearing, gestures and slanderous remarks (which he conviniently forgot to mention) led to the whole situation.
Are you saying players can insult and make any gestures they want and that's ok as long as they don't mention a colour ? |
Ferdinand's not in the dock though. | |
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| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:50 - Jul 12 with 1396 views | Northernr |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:42 - Jul 12 by Speediesdouble |
I take it you're struggling with the whole incident and have got yourself completely hung up on the use of the word "black"
Ferdinands behaviour, swearing, gestures and slanderous remarks (which he conviniently forgot to mention) led to the whole situation.
Are you saying players can insult and make any gestures they want and that's ok as long as they don't mention a colour ? |
Yes. | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:51 - Jul 12 with 1389 views | Juzzie |
Blimey SD, you think football players had never taunted each other during games up until last October?
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| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:53 - Jul 12 with 1382 views | Speediesdouble |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:50 - Jul 12 by Northernr |
Yes. |
..and there in lies what's wrong with today's society, massive race chip on their shoulders but anything else is fair game. | | | |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:55 - Jul 12 with 1369 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:53 - Jul 12 by Speediesdouble |
..and there in lies what's wrong with today's society, massive race chip on their shoulders but anything else is fair game. |
And there in lies what's wrong with racists, they believe that there are no victims of racism, just people with 'race chips'.
You're worse than Terry. |  |
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| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 16:00 - Jul 12 with 1351 views | BlackCrowe |
And in one post Speediesdouble kills all his previous posts of fairly reasoned debate. |  |
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| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 16:01 - Jul 12 with 1347 views | Speediesdouble |
| John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 15:47 - Jul 12 by QPR_Jim |
I take it your struggling with the term racist remark.
Terry wasn't singing a f*cking rainbow, he said that "colour" in a derogatory and abusive manor and no amount of stick or swearing warrants that kind of response. |
Another one with a race chip on his shoulder, firstly nothing is proven as to what Terry meant, but that's an aside. In your book though comments about someones, wife, kids, parents, unproven allegations, any gestures, hell even assaulting players in a Bartonesque fashion are nothing compared with metioning the colour of skin.
I'm no racist and have never felt the need to target someone over the colour of their skin, but if someone came up to me and called me a White C*** ! it would bother me far less than someone saying something about my family, but hey maybe that's just me. | | | |
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