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Remain With or Leave the EU on 20:18 - Jun 15 by exiledclaseboy
Thanks. This is far more like the truth.
Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%. The Vote Leave campaign has counted another 16 votes between 1996 and 1998 where it says the UK was on the losing side, to bring its total up to 72. We haven’t been able to check this figure but the general picture won’t change much whether the number is 56 or 72. So the UK government has actively supported 95% of the laws that originated from the EU since 1999.
Not the whole picture of course but them neither is implying that MEPs (sic) voting 72 times against a certain policy is in any way significant given the actual numbers.
Facts schmacts.
[Post edited 15 Jun 2016 20:23]
Well done ecb. I went looking for this stuff and couldn't find it.
A_Fans_Dad quoted the 72 with no reference to the number of times the UK were on the 'winning' side of a debate. Without the other figure for balance then the 72 is meaningless.
As you also rightly say, that's not the whole picture but anyone quoting numbers to support one side's arguments aren't really adding quality to the debate.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 09:49 - Jun 16 with 1759 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 09:36 - Jun 16 by johnlangy
Well done ecb. I went looking for this stuff and couldn't find it.
A_Fans_Dad quoted the 72 with no reference to the number of times the UK were on the 'winning' side of a debate. Without the other figure for balance then the 72 is meaningless.
As you also rightly say, that's not the whole picture but anyone quoting numbers to support one side's arguments aren't really adding quality to the debate.
Exactly.
Then AFD moved the goal posts as if nobody would notice.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 10:26 - Jun 16 with 1745 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 09:30 - Jun 16 by VetchitBack
I actually like the idea of the EU in many ways. I will mourn the break up if it occurs despite having voted the other way.
I think a lot of honesty is needed. If the EU was a sort of Fortress Europe I'd be a committed Remainer.
But it seems to me to be big version of New Labour. Endlessly compassionate towards immigrants endlessly ignorant (or worse) towards the communities and people it effects. Endlessly compassionate towards criminals endlessly ignorant of victims.
A socially Right-wing or even centre-Right EU suspicious of Islamic expansionism would easily get my vote.
When you say "socially right wing" what would you like to see?
Remain With or Leave the EU on 10:26 - Jun 16 by exiledclaseboy
When you say "socially right wing" what would you like to see?
Very little immgration outside EU unless it's highly skilled and needed.
Scrap the Free Movement of People as it simply punishes the poor from the more desirable countries and allows ease of movement for terrorists and criminals.
Scrap the Act. The fact that you've sired offspring (as a scumbag) should if anything be held against you not held up a reason why we can't deport/punish you.
Zero Islamic immigration till the religion reforms and faces up to and against its extreme elements and branches where nearly every crucial part of European civilisation is despised.
A sea-change in attitudes towards crime. An acceptance that crime is not solely the default response to poverty and with it an end to stigmatising all the poor as criminals. Sentencing which fits the crime with austere prisons that even the hardmen would fear going to.
The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 11:05 - Jun 16 with 1698 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 10:46 - Jun 16 by VetchitBack
Very little immgration outside EU unless it's highly skilled and needed.
Scrap the Free Movement of People as it simply punishes the poor from the more desirable countries and allows ease of movement for terrorists and criminals.
Scrap the Act. The fact that you've sired offspring (as a scumbag) should if anything be held against you not held up a reason why we can't deport/punish you.
Zero Islamic immigration till the religion reforms and faces up to and against its extreme elements and branches where nearly every crucial part of European civilisation is despised.
A sea-change in attitudes towards crime. An acceptance that crime is not solely the default response to poverty and with it an end to stigmatising all the poor as criminals. Sentencing which fits the crime with austere prisons that even the hardmen would fear going to.
You will never, ever get any of that in the EU.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 11:10 - Jun 16 with 1691 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 09:17 - Jun 16 by VetchitBack
Though maybe through the law of unintended consequences spiv lawyers have used the EU's laws to delay or stop the deportation of thoroughly frightening people.
The law of unintended consequences. If we leave the Eu because of the votes of those who are concerned about immigration. It's possible the hard working Poles in bars, restaurants, car Washes, etc etc will go elsewhere.
Therefore to.fill these vacancies we will need immigrants from other countries, most likely commonwealth countries like Pakistan and those fleeing trouble spots like Syria, Libya and Afghanistan.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 11:32 - Jun 16 by sherpajacob
The law of unintended consequences. If we leave the Eu because of the votes of those who are concerned about immigration. It's possible the hard working Poles in bars, restaurants, car Washes, etc etc will go elsewhere.
Therefore to.fill these vacancies we will need immigrants from other countries, most likely commonwealth countries like Pakistan and those fleeing trouble spots like Syria, Libya and Afghanistan.
So the closet racists should really vote remain.
Why do we need immigration to fill these vacancies when we have hundreds of thousands if not millions of unemployed people already here?
Have we got so snobby as a society that a job in a bar or a restaurant is somehow beneath the British people?
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
I find it rather odd how people who are distrustful of politicians, and voting leave, are willing to ignore expert advice in favour of politicians who they happen to agree with in this referendum.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:46 - Jun 16 with 1563 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:54 - Jun 16 by Highjack
I've never claimed to. Do you believe there are jobs so crap that only immigrants should have them? Sounds a bit racist to me.
Nothing of the sort. I was just pointing out that Nice_to_Michu was correct in that 5% unemployment is considered to be the natural rate of unemployment/full employment level which is ideal.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:02 - Jun 16 with 1528 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:54 - Jun 16 by Highjack
I've never claimed to. Do you believe there are jobs so crap that only immigrants should have them? Sounds a bit racist to me.
There are undoubtedly jobs that only immigrants will do. Jobs that our own population can't be bothered with.
Service industry, NHS, care homes, agricultural work etc.
Not sure how exactly people think that these jobs will suddenly be filled unless exit is accompanied by much stronger reform of the welfare state. Or perhaps we just won't bother growing food in this country. Perhaps we'll import it all from France and Spain, oh, hang on...
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:30 - Jun 16 with 1490 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:02 - Jun 16 by londonlisa2001
There are undoubtedly jobs that only immigrants will do. Jobs that our own population can't be bothered with.
Service industry, NHS, care homes, agricultural work etc.
Not sure how exactly people think that these jobs will suddenly be filled unless exit is accompanied by much stronger reform of the welfare state. Or perhaps we just won't bother growing food in this country. Perhaps we'll import it all from France and Spain, oh, hang on...
These jobs will be filled by raising the pay and adding additional benefits, so they become attractive. The reason people cant be bothered because some jobs are not worth the pay for what you put your body through. I would never work in a freezer job on minimum wage, working in temperatures at -20.
Even when you know, you never know?
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:42 - Jun 16 with 1479 views
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