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Remain With or Leave the EU on 11:55 - Jun 19 by nice_to_michu
Actually, I haven't discussed climate science with you at all. I guess you could describe that as one of your "irrefutable" facts.
You talk a great game, use lots of impressive words and seem to enjoy telling others that they have issues with "comprehension", which is curious given that you tried to continue a discussion by asking what irrefutable facts does the poster disagree with. Given your answer it seems as though you still can't comprehend the issue with that.
Everything is black or white with you. You have the facts, nobody else does. We get it.
I am well aware you injected yourself into a discussion you do not understand.
Some things are "irrefutable" - specifically the actual purpose and methods of our list of papers. What part of that do you not understand?
Turning something very specific into your strawman argument to try and falsely claim this was applied to things that were not "black and white" is intellectually dishonest. There is no need to be intellectually dishonest simply because you cannot follow a conversation.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:59 - Jun 19 with 2192 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:44 - Jun 19 by poptech
I am well aware you injected yourself into a discussion you do not understand.
Some things are "irrefutable" - specifically the actual purpose and methods of our list of papers. What part of that do you not understand?
Turning something very specific into your strawman argument to try and falsely claim this was applied to things that were not "black and white" is intellectually dishonest. There is no need to be intellectually dishonest simply because you cannot follow a conversation.
Irrespective of the subject matter, or the argument, I reckon I'd rather be thought intellectually dishonest than be plainly exposed as an aspiring intellectual bully.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:44 - Jun 19 by poptech
I am well aware you injected yourself into a discussion you do not understand.
Some things are "irrefutable" - specifically the actual purpose and methods of our list of papers. What part of that do you not understand?
Turning something very specific into your strawman argument to try and falsely claim this was applied to things that were not "black and white" is intellectually dishonest. There is no need to be intellectually dishonest simply because you cannot follow a conversation.
Poptech Important question you need to answer for us.
I see the big guns have been brought forward to ensure a remain result, Betfair are saying it's 72% we'll stay in thank god the sooner we are back to normality the better
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
Remain With or Leave the EU on 10:01 - Jun 20 by raynor94
I see the big guns have been brought forward to ensure a remain result, Betfair are saying it's 72% we'll stay in thank god the sooner we are back to normality the better
Indeed our elected (in the very loosest sense) government have abandoned running the country in favour of a drawn out leadership shiftiest that actually has nothing much to do with their views on the EU or what might be really best for the country.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 19:44 - Jun 19 by sherpajacob
Very illuminating and informative.
Just don't expect the brexiters to have their opinion changed by facts, logic and the reality of the situation.
Re Professor Dougan, Youtube Video on EU Law and Brexit
This is certainly worth viewing, but in my opinion contained several contentious claims. Did you notice though that Michael Dougan holds a Jean Monnet Chair in EU Law? Some will recall Monnet's famous quotation:
“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”
[Post edited 20 Jun 2016 12:45]
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:58 - Jun 20 with 1982 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:35 - Jun 20 by AnotherJohn
Re Professor Dougan, Youtube Video on EU Law and Brexit
This is certainly worth viewing, but in my opinion contained several contentious claims. Did you notice though that Michael Dougan holds a Jean Monnet Chair in EU Law? Some will recall Monnet's famous quotation:
“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”
[Post edited 20 Jun 2016 12:45]
Monnet professors are of course scattered amongst the universities of Europe and are paid by the EU to promote the EU as an ideal.
There are almost a thousand of them polluting young students thinking throughout the European university system.
So hardly an unbiased viewpoint from Mr Dougan there then?
What points in the video are contentious? It would be great if someone from the Brexit side could post a similar video, countering points of contention, by someone with a similar level of expertise.
Upthecity!
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:36 - Jun 20 with 1955 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:27 - Jun 20 by yescomeon
What points in the video are contentious? It would be great if someone from the Brexit side could post a similar video, countering points of contention, by someone with a similar level of expertise.
Good question.
Any Brexiters care to answer?
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:56 - Jun 20 with 1950 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:27 - Jun 20 by yescomeon
What points in the video are contentious? It would be great if someone from the Brexit side could post a similar video, countering points of contention, by someone with a similar level of expertise.
I may look through again and list my quibbles more systematically when I have time, but my immediate reaction is that Dougan presented an over-simplistic account of the (lack of) impact of EU law/treaties on UK sovereignty, and made several speculative claims about public policy impact when his expertise is not policy but constitutional law.
Re the first point my concern is that UK sovereignty is limited by international treaties that we have signed and could not withdraw from without also withdrawing from the EU. Among other things, the Lisbon Treaty commits us to be bound by qualified majority voting in the Council in around 40 policy areas, which previously (under the Nice Treaty) required unanimity before policy changes could be made. Even in respect of the ECtHR (which is not an EU body), the Treaty of Lisbon requires EU member states to recognise the jurisdiction of the court. Thus although there may still be ultimate sovereignty in the sense that the British Parliament could vote to withdraw from the EU and the treaties, we are pretty much hemmed in for practical purposes as long as we are in the EU.
An example of the second concern is that Dougan said that the process of withdrawal (the two year process of 'divorce') would be completely separate re procedures and timing from the process of negotiating a new framework for UK-EU relations (what we could call the post-divorce settlement). Yes, constitutionally these would be separate, but in terms of practical politics and the reality of the policy-making process the two things will overlap.
[Post edited 20 Jun 2016 14:03]
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 14:04 - Jun 20 with 1940 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 10:01 - Jun 20 by raynor94
I see the big guns have been brought forward to ensure a remain result, Betfair are saying it's 72% we'll stay in thank god the sooner we are back to normality the better
By big guns I assume you mean the multi millionaires who have been riding that gravy train like Sharon stone in basic instinct?
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:56 - Jun 20 by AnotherJohn
I may look through again and list my quibbles more systematically when I have time, but my immediate reaction is that Dougan presented an over-simplistic account of the (lack of) impact of EU law/treaties on UK sovereignty, and made several speculative claims about public policy impact when his expertise is not policy but constitutional law.
Re the first point my concern is that UK sovereignty is limited by international treaties that we have signed and could not withdraw from without also withdrawing from the EU. Among other things, the Lisbon Treaty commits us to be bound by qualified majority voting in the Council in around 40 policy areas, which previously (under the Nice Treaty) required unanimity before policy changes could be made. Even in respect of the ECtHR (which is not an EU body), the Treaty of Lisbon requires EU member states to recognise the jurisdiction of the court. Thus although there may still be ultimate sovereignty in the sense that the British Parliament could vote to withdraw from the EU and the treaties, we are pretty much hemmed in for practical purposes as long as we are in the EU.
An example of the second concern is that Dougan said that the process of withdrawal (the two year process of 'divorce') would be completely separate re procedures and timing from the process of negotiating a new framework for UK-EU relations (what we could call the post-divorce settlement). Yes, constitutionally these would be separate, but in terms of practical politics and the reality of the policy-making process the two things will overlap.
[Post edited 20 Jun 2016 14:03]
Thanks for that reply there AJ, think I'm going to read it a few more times, hit up wikipedia and watch the video again. It's a over my head to be honest, this seems more your field than mine. Personally, UK sovereignty is way down at the bottom of my list of worries.
Your second example was one of the things that really stood out that he said, that negotiations would likely go on for more like 10 years than 2. You disagree it would take that long?
Upthecity!
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 14:40 - Jun 20 with 1900 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:59 - Jun 19 by monmouth
Irrespective of the subject matter, or the argument, I reckon I'd rather be thought intellectually dishonest than be plainly exposed as an aspiring intellectual bully.
At least you admit that you are not interested in the truth.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 14:41 - Jun 20 with 1896 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 14:32 - Jun 20 by yescomeon
Thanks for that reply there AJ, think I'm going to read it a few more times, hit up wikipedia and watch the video again. It's a over my head to be honest, this seems more your field than mine. Personally, UK sovereignty is way down at the bottom of my list of worries.
Your second example was one of the things that really stood out that he said, that negotiations would likely go on for more like 10 years than 2. You disagree it would take that long?
Negotiations with different trading partners would no doubt vary in the time needed. The EU would be one of the more difficult ones. However, my personal view is that 10 years is a wild over-estimate because it is in both the interests of the EU and the UK to trade (and especially in the interests of Germany given its positive trade balance). Also remember that most world trade takes place outside formal agreements. Dougan did have a point about regulatory requirements and quality/safety standards, but one imagines that where goods are already being traded they do meet standards so that this would only be raised as an issue if relationships worsened dramatically.
P.S. If you consult Wiki look for the Treaty of Lisbon but just the EU in general.
[Post edited 20 Jun 2016 14:55]
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 15:05 - Jun 20 with 1865 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 18:43 - Jun 20 by union_jack
Thursday is fast approaching and the poll is getting more even. Wonder if this is significant in any way. By Friday we'll know.
Stock markets thought remain was a shoe in this morning. Massive rally, and the £ against the dollar. An indication of the market view of the sanity of exit if it were needed.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 18:54 - Jun 20 by monmouth
Stock markets thought remain was a shoe in this morning. Massive rally, and the £ against the dollar. An indication of the market view of the sanity of exit if it were needed.
I think someone mentioned this upthread but it seems similar to how the Scotland vote went. A late scare where leave looks like a shoo in then an even later swing back to remain as common sense returns.
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