| Is the lock down ending too soon? 04:59 - Jul 1 with 138220 views | Glyn1 |
That's basically it.
Thoughts please. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 5:00]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:08 - Sep 23 with 2149 views | Highjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:56 - Sep 22 by controversial_jack |
Flu, with the exception of 1918, doesn't kill anywhere near what this has so far |
That’s because we have a basic resistance to flu and none to covid so more people are susceptible. Flu remains one of the most deadly pathogens in the western world. |  |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:31 - Sep 23 with 2140 views | DJack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:08 - Sep 23 by Highjack |
That’s because we have a basic resistance to flu and none to covid so more people are susceptible. Flu remains one of the most deadly pathogens in the western world. |
More info on flu
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 11:46 - Sep 23 with 2111 views | controversial_jack |
The majority of people have never had full blown flu.Of course it can kill, but nothing like covid.it has killed healthy young doctors, nurses, care workers etc.Flu doesn't do that |  | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:55 - Sep 23 with 2075 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:08 - Sep 23 by Highjack |
That’s because we have a basic resistance to flu and none to covid so more people are susceptible. Flu remains one of the most deadly pathogens in the western world. |
Nearly all of that is wrong!
Do you mean immunity or resistance as different things? In any case we don't have long term immunity to flu due to variability (120+ serotypes) and frequent mutation. That's why we have annual vaccination.
Far less pathogenic than malaria, TB, typhoid, trypanosomiasis, a whole host of haemorrhagic viruses (including Ebola), Hendra and Nipah virus, Q fever, Anthrax, plague, Shigella, Brucella.
In fact its only a Hazard Group 2 pathogen. Those above (and many others)are HG3 or HG4. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:17 - Sep 23 with 2059 views | Highjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:55 - Sep 23 by Professor |
Nearly all of that is wrong!
Do you mean immunity or resistance as different things? In any case we don't have long term immunity to flu due to variability (120+ serotypes) and frequent mutation. That's why we have annual vaccination.
Far less pathogenic than malaria, TB, typhoid, trypanosomiasis, a whole host of haemorrhagic viruses (including Ebola), Hendra and Nipah virus, Q fever, Anthrax, plague, Shigella, Brucella.
In fact its only a Hazard Group 2 pathogen. Those above (and many others)are HG3 or HG4. |
I meant resistance, which is why I said resistance. It would be a lot worse if we hadn’t been exposed to something similar before which is what’s happening with covid.
And I said the western world because malaria, TB, typhoid and most of those you listed thankfully aren’t particularly common throughout Europe and the americas anymore. In terms of viruses that can lead to death in the U.K. in the 21st century Flu has to be comfortably up there towards the top spot. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:27 - Sep 23 with 2055 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:17 - Sep 23 by Highjack |
I meant resistance, which is why I said resistance. It would be a lot worse if we hadn’t been exposed to something similar before which is what’s happening with covid.
And I said the western world because malaria, TB, typhoid and most of those you listed thankfully aren’t particularly common throughout Europe and the americas anymore. In terms of viruses that can lead to death in the U.K. in the 21st century Flu has to be comfortably up there towards the top spot. |
Apologies- misread the initial post about western world.
There is no evidence of resistance to flu. Trust me! In fact it resistance is much harder to establish than immunity. There are likely to be individuals with increased resistance, but not at a population level which may be related to MHC haplotype (inherently more able to mount an effective immune response), or a variation is a cell receptor-but certainly not 'we' as a population. Most traits around resistance are polygenic (many genes) and only rarely (like sickle cell trait and malaria) are obvious. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:55 - Sep 23 with 2038 views | onehunglow |
Paul.
Total Fitness today closed due to covid posibility .
That's me gone..
I'm going to my daughter if ,as it hopes,her studio in Upton opens. If you or your missus wants a personal trainer ,contact me. She has a very high reputation and most if not all of her clients are Professionals . | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:07 - Sep 23 with 2031 views | Highjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:27 - Sep 23 by Professor |
Apologies- misread the initial post about western world.
There is no evidence of resistance to flu. Trust me! In fact it resistance is much harder to establish than immunity. There are likely to be individuals with increased resistance, but not at a population level which may be related to MHC haplotype (inherently more able to mount an effective immune response), or a variation is a cell receptor-but certainly not 'we' as a population. Most traits around resistance are polygenic (many genes) and only rarely (like sickle cell trait and malaria) are obvious. |
“A team that included some of the same UCLA and Arizona scientists reported in 2016 that exposure to influenza viruses during childhood gives people partial protection for the rest of their lives against distantly related influenza viruses. Biologists call the idea that past exposure to the flu virus determines a person's future response to infections "immunological imprinting."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200204094722.htm
This would certainly help to explain why some people end up bedridden for days with flu whilst their partner might only get a bit of a sniffle. I’m not sure whether this would apply to covid-19 too because obviously there are other coronaviruses that we are regularly exposed to but I have always been under the impression from the experts that the main reason they are treating covid-19 so much more seriously is because it’s a brand new illness and we have no resistance to it, unlike other similar respiratory viruses. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:17 - Sep 23 with 2016 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:07 - Sep 23 by Highjack |
“A team that included some of the same UCLA and Arizona scientists reported in 2016 that exposure to influenza viruses during childhood gives people partial protection for the rest of their lives against distantly related influenza viruses. Biologists call the idea that past exposure to the flu virus determines a person's future response to infections "immunological imprinting."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200204094722.htm
This would certainly help to explain why some people end up bedridden for days with flu whilst their partner might only get a bit of a sniffle. I’m not sure whether this would apply to covid-19 too because obviously there are other coronaviruses that we are regularly exposed to but I have always been under the impression from the experts that the main reason they are treating covid-19 so much more seriously is because it’s a brand new illness and we have no resistance to it, unlike other similar respiratory viruses. |
Now, now.
Don't you go contradicting the prof with alternate facts.
Any second now he will be slating those doctors & scientists as charlatans.
He keeps pushing vaccines as the answer to everything, but for flu they are not, in fact according to his favourite source Cochrane they are almost worthless, with very minor improvements indeed.
Not worth the money spent on them. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:25 - Sep 23 with 2011 views | Highjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:17 - Sep 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
Now, now.
Don't you go contradicting the prof with alternate facts.
Any second now he will be slating those doctors & scientists as charlatans.
He keeps pushing vaccines as the answer to everything, but for flu they are not, in fact according to his favourite source Cochrane they are almost worthless, with very minor improvements indeed.
Not worth the money spent on them. |
They aren’t worthless at all, they won’t stop you catching the flu and you’ll still get ill but they’ll help mitigate how bad the symptoms are and help you fight it off quicker. For some people that could be the difference between life and death. We’ll probably arrive at a similar position with Covid-19. Any vaccine won’t eradicate it but will mitigate its effects. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:46 - Sep 23 with 1999 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:25 - Sep 23 by Highjack |
They aren’t worthless at all, they won’t stop you catching the flu and you’ll still get ill but they’ll help mitigate how bad the symptoms are and help you fight it off quicker. For some people that could be the difference between life and death. We’ll probably arrive at a similar position with Covid-19. Any vaccine won’t eradicate it but will mitigate its effects. |
I suggest you read the Cochrane report then, which the prof supports so much.
I am merely repeating what they said. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:02 - Sep 23 with 1995 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:07 - Sep 23 by Highjack |
“A team that included some of the same UCLA and Arizona scientists reported in 2016 that exposure to influenza viruses during childhood gives people partial protection for the rest of their lives against distantly related influenza viruses. Biologists call the idea that past exposure to the flu virus determines a person's future response to infections "immunological imprinting."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200204094722.htm
This would certainly help to explain why some people end up bedridden for days with flu whilst their partner might only get a bit of a sniffle. I’m not sure whether this would apply to covid-19 too because obviously there are other coronaviruses that we are regularly exposed to but I have always been under the impression from the experts that the main reason they are treating covid-19 so much more seriously is because it’s a brand new illness and we have no resistance to it, unlike other similar respiratory viruses. |
That's a phenomenon called Trained Immunity. It's quite short-lived HJ. A number of infections and vaccines cause it, but won't last more than a few months. No one can repeat that UCLA study. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:13 - Sep 23 with 1985 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:02 - Sep 23 by Professor |
That's a phenomenon called Trained Immunity. It's quite short-lived HJ. A number of infections and vaccines cause it, but won't last more than a few months. No one can repeat that UCLA study. |
And it's immunological.
I am talking about resistance that is inherent and does not need prior exposure HJ-something genetic selected for in a population. This is one of the things I work on.
And AFD fails to point out the flu vaccines are less effective only in ageing populations. Which as I have explained to the ostrich is as consequence of immunosensescence. Basically as you age your immune system works less well. Bit like most things really. You would be a fool not get the vaccine.
And flu (which is a totally unrelated and far more variation than coronaviruses) bears no relationship to how successful a Covid vaccine may or may not be.
We vaccinate against one of avian influenza and avian coronavirus in the UK- Guess which? | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:17 - Sep 23 with 1980 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:55 - Sep 23 by onehunglow |
Paul.
Total Fitness today closed due to covid posibility .
That's me gone..
I'm going to my daughter if ,as it hopes,her studio in Upton opens. If you or your missus wants a personal trainer ,contact me. She has a very high reputation and most if not all of her clients are Professionals . |
87 cases in the University Rich-all picked up by our own testing system. Should have involved universities in testing all along. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:31 - Sep 23 with 1978 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:17 - Sep 23 by Professor |
87 cases in the University Rich-all picked up by our own testing system. Should have involved universities in testing all along. |
They claimed 12 in Swansea University yesterday. God knows how many more today. Were these overseas students with you as in Swansea term doesnt start officially until next week. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:01 - Sep 23 with 1966 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:31 - Sep 23 by exhmrc1 |
They claimed 12 in Swansea University yesterday. God knows how many more today. Were these overseas students with you as in Swansea term doesnt start officially until next week. |
I don't know, but we have students (Medicine, Dental, vets and other paraclinical) back.
These are through our own testing system which links into the main test and trace too.
Copied this below from our intranet FYI
The University’s COVID Test Centre is now up and running for staff and students, allowing the University to act quickly to deal with any clusters of coronavirus cases.
The University has invested in the centre as part of CAMPUS Shield — a city-wide partnership initiative led by the University to keep our city, staff and students safe, and reduce the spread of COVID.
Investment
The centre has now been open two weeks and is already providing vital information for the University on the number and location of cases among its staff and student population.
Professor Louise Kenny, Executive Pro-Vice-Chancellor for the Faculty of Health and Life Sciences, said: “Like other members of Liverpool’s population, University students and staff are experiencing more COVID cases.
“Our investment in an on-campus testing facility for staff and students displaying symptoms means that we are in a position to report on the numbers in our community who test positive and, importantly, to act quickly to stop the spread.
“We continue to work closely with Liverpool City Council’s Public Health team and Public Health England and all those who have tested positive, together with their close contacts, have been informed that they now need to self-isolate in line with national guidance.”
Book a test
The test centre, on Guild Walk, is open 9am-5pm every day and tests are available for any staff or students who are experiencing symptoms of coronavirus, with results available in 24 hours. You can book a test here or by calling 0151 795 1000 if you are unable to book a test online due to a disability.
If you feel unwell and think you have at least one symptom of COVID, it’s important that you immediately self-isolate until you have taken a test and received your results, which should arrive via text message within 24 hours.
Other members of your household and people you have been in close contact with will not need to access a COVID test unless they also start to show symptoms, but you will need to let them know they are required to self-isolate for 14 days from the day your symptoms started in line with UK government guidance.
Innovative measures
Liverpool’s expertise and facilities mean we are able to put in place a range of innovative measures including the test centre, to help protect our staff and student community as well as support the region with its wider response to COVID-19.
The University is also encouraging all staff and students to download the Evergreen Life app which will further strengthen the data on infection clusters and enable the University to act quickly to reduce spread.
Safety measures now in place across campus include:
A hybrid teaching and learning model
Social distancing markers
Socially distant study space
A teaching schedule that reduces the volume of students moving around the campus at any one-time
One-way walking routes
Increased hygiene and cleaning regimes
Hand sanitiser stations
Face-coverings now mandatory on campus — two free, washable face coverings are available for every student and staff member
Contactless payments — to buy food and drink, use the sports centre, pay for car parking and printing
Special arrangements for University Halls of Residence to enable social distancing, a phased and contactless arrivals process, automatic gates and doors, and ‘quarantine’ support for overseas students
All buildings assessed and marked as COVID-secure to show that they adhere to national public health guidance
Further information
Further details of the measures we have in place to keep everyone safe on campus are available on our new dedicated campus safety hub. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:46 - Sep 23 with 1954 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:13 - Sep 23 by Professor |
And it's immunological.
I am talking about resistance that is inherent and does not need prior exposure HJ-something genetic selected for in a population. This is one of the things I work on.
And AFD fails to point out the flu vaccines are less effective only in ageing populations. Which as I have explained to the ostrich is as consequence of immunosensescence. Basically as you age your immune system works less well. Bit like most things really. You would be a fool not get the vaccine.
And flu (which is a totally unrelated and far more variation than coronaviruses) bears no relationship to how successful a Covid vaccine may or may not be.
We vaccinate against one of avian influenza and avian coronavirus in the UK- Guess which? |
Yes, the flu vaccine doesn't work very well for the very people who will need a covid one to work the best. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 18:22 - Sep 23 with 1937 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:31 - Sep 23 by exhmrc1 |
They claimed 12 in Swansea University yesterday. God knows how many more today. Were these overseas students with you as in Swansea term doesnt start officially until next week. |
Except for the Medical school, nursing, paramedic, cardiology, audiology, midwifery, social work all of which have been back for over two weeks. |  |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 19:08 - Sep 23 with 1917 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 18:22 - Sep 23 by Joe_bradshaw |
Except for the Medical school, nursing, paramedic, cardiology, audiology, midwifery, social work all of which have been back for over two weeks. |
I was speaking to a lecturer friend yesterday and many of the students are post graduate students who are involved in various sports teams.
These teams have been in full contact training for a couple of weeks, many of them live together and socialise together.
I would be surprised if we aren't in local lockdown by the weekend. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:06 - Sep 24 with 1871 views | Scotia |
I notice the NHS tracing app has been launched today. Looks good and very simple to use.
It's a shame it is 4 months too late.
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't install and use it. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:47 - Sep 24 with 1848 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 19:08 - Sep 23 by Scotia |
I was speaking to a lecturer friend yesterday and many of the students are post graduate students who are involved in various sports teams.
These teams have been in full contact training for a couple of weeks, many of them live together and socialise together.
I would be surprised if we aren't in local lockdown by the weekend. |
They were not supposed to be in full contact training. I was talking to the coach of the local rugby club a couple of weeks ago and they had decided not to restart training. He was saying they couldnt have contact and could only have small groups at a time and there were other restrictions. The WRU were going to give clubs 6 weeks notice of any impending restart and the feedback he was getting then was that rugby wouldnt restart until January and that was before the rise in cases. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:36 - Sep 24 with 1823 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:47 - Sep 24 by exhmrc1 |
They were not supposed to be in full contact training. I was talking to the coach of the local rugby club a couple of weeks ago and they had decided not to restart training. He was saying they couldnt have contact and could only have small groups at a time and there were other restrictions. The WRU were going to give clubs 6 weeks notice of any impending restart and the feedback he was getting then was that rugby wouldnt restart until January and that was before the rise in cases. |
I don't think it was necessarily sanctioned training. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:52 - Sep 24 with 1821 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:36 - Sep 24 by Scotia |
I don't think it was necessarily sanctioned training. |
The problem is contact sport shouldnt be taking place. Even in cricket when it restarted there were restrictions and yet the idiots in Drefach ignored the advice and organised a presentation evening.
The rugby coach outlined the reasons why they had decided not to restart training sessions and from memory I think they could only coach 10 players at a time. There has to be no contact. There were things like keeping logs who attended and having to use hand sanitiser. If one of the group tested positive then the who group would be require to self isolate and they felt as there was no realistic prospects of a resumption it wasnt worth starting what would just be fitness sessions. I think he said they also couldnt do ball work either. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 11:07 - Sep 24 with 1808 views | controversial_jack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:06 - Sep 24 by Scotia |
I notice the NHS tracing app has been launched today. Looks good and very simple to use.
It's a shame it is 4 months too late.
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't install and use it. |
It's only for England, it doesn't work in Wales | | | |
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