| Swans Finance Situation 10:42 - Dec 29 with 23412 views | blaine_scfc |
Chris Wathan just tweeted an article which may be of interest. Apologies if already been posted.
@ChrisWathan: Good analysis of the main figures from Swansea City's accounts by the ever-excellent @SwissRamble https://t.co/igZtpbLC9a |  | | |  |
| Swans Finance Situation on 22:34 - Jan 4 with 1870 views | trampie |
| Swans Finance Situation on 22:29 - Jan 4 by FearOfAJackPlanet |
It might ensure the garden is rosy in the short term, but we all know the new money will be eaten up by higher wages, bonuses and agent fees unless we can somehow find innovative ways to put together a competitive team that doesn't just involve throwing 100% of your TV income at it and hoping for the best. I remember when we used to have a wage cap, ah, such innocent days...
You get a feeling the board never ever contemplated we'd be in this situation (and who did?) after last season, so pushed the boat out a little financially, secure in the knowledge we'd get a fat wedge in 2016/17 to put things on an even keel before the agents started knocking on the door for contract renewals and the stakes are raised again. |
Yip. |  |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 22:37 - Jan 4 with 1857 views | marchamjack |
Fascinating reading, and bloody sobering at the same time
Not sure what to make of it all, other than the picture is less rosy on the financial front than in my minds eye it was, regardless of whether we stay up or not. Certainly not the Golden Goose the PL appears from the outside. How clubs actually make money is hard to fathom and I can understand how we struggle to properly compete without some proper money men behind us, certainly not in any long to medium term sense if we were to stay up.
Fair to say, if we don't get outside investment, we'll always be our 'size' of club, which for me, is actually fine the more I think about it. That's not reflective of any lack of ambition, that's what I like/value about our club. I think to get to the next level we'd have to sacrifice too much of what makes us Swansea.
Can understand though more than ever why our board would like to get their investment out though when/if they can, as we just don't seem to be sustainable going forwards and they haven't got the sort of depth of pockets that would be needed.
Required reading this thread for fans, just to give some perspective to things. |  |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 22:48 - Jan 4 with 1815 views | Wingstandwood |
| Swans Finance Situation on 22:12 - Jan 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Agreed Wayne, it was a real joy to see Joey and Ben break through. Of course these local top quality players came through before our recent large scale investments.
Since the investment then nothing.
You are correct about Dave Adams of course, but we had an Academy 4 years ago so why no players being produced ? The problem with always giving the Academy another 4 years is that you end up in a position where nobody is ever accountable.
In a business our investment has to make us money, or we become more like a local charity. |
Academies? I.M.O if they do not produce talent to live up to and merit their running costs?.......What is the point?
Since the Toshack era the club has produced from youth team level only a handful of players capable of regularly performing at the highest level. Dean Saunders, Colin Pascoe, Andy Melville, Ben Davies, Joe Allen. Chris Coleman is a Man City product so I’ll discount him?
_Please add any more if I’ve forgot any i.e. a 34 year time span is a very long time? Absolutely f#cking atrocious and shameful figure for a substantive catchment area/population i.e. SW Wales and satellite area’s. FIVE players in 34 years? Abysmal! Abysmal! Abysmal! [Post edited 4 Jan 2016 22:50]
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| Swans Finance Situation on 22:54 - Jan 4 with 1796 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Finance Situation on 22:29 - Jan 4 by FearOfAJackPlanet |
It might ensure the garden is rosy in the short term, but we all know the new money will be eaten up by higher wages, bonuses and agent fees unless we can somehow find innovative ways to put together a competitive team that doesn't just involve throwing 100% of your TV income at it and hoping for the best. I remember when we used to have a wage cap, ah, such innocent days...
You get a feeling the board never ever contemplated we'd be in this situation (and who did?) after last season, so pushed the boat out a little financially, secure in the knowledge we'd get a fat wedge in 2016/17 to put things on an even keel before the agents started knocking on the door for contract renewals and the stakes are raised again. |
There's little doubt some of the increased TV monies has been factored in a little.
There's no reason why we have to just chuck all the money at the playing squad. I would hope the new tv deal would have enough flex for other projects. |  |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 22:54 - Jan 4 with 1788 views | monmouth |
There is no 'next level' in my view. It's yet another received footballing jargon myth. You're either one of the mahoosive guns, or you are in a lottery, one great season from europe, one bad season from the drop - Leicester fans and Palarse fans better enjoy this season. Or a few stupid but disastrous mistakes away from perennial struggle, like Newcastle, Villa and Sunderland. |  |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 23:10 - Jan 4 with 1747 views | therealme |
I'll admit I was surprised with the figures, one being TV revenue basically wiped out by wages. I hadn't really given it much thought to be honest, you hear so much about the "premier league riches"
Highest wage budget and closest to the drop, coincidence? |  |
| Francesco's black and white army ⚪ï¸âš«ï¸ |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 23:12 - Jan 4 with 1733 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Finance Situation on 22:54 - Jan 4 by monmouth |
There is no 'next level' in my view. It's yet another received footballing jargon myth. You're either one of the mahoosive guns, or you are in a lottery, one great season from europe, one bad season from the drop - Leicester fans and Palarse fans better enjoy this season. Or a few stupid but disastrous mistakes away from perennial struggle, like Newcastle, Villa and Sunderland. |
Exactly.
The myth of outside investment is just that. | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 23:14 - Jan 4 with 1713 views | trampie |
| Swans Finance Situation on 23:10 - Jan 4 by therealme |
I'll admit I was surprised with the figures, one being TV revenue basically wiped out by wages. I hadn't really given it much thought to be honest, you hear so much about the "premier league riches"
Highest wage budget and closest to the drop, coincidence? |
It maybe generalising a little bit but in general terms every teams money go's straight into the players pockets. | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 23:19 - Jan 4 with 1691 views | max936 |
| Swans Finance Situation on 22:54 - Jan 4 by monmouth |
There is no 'next level' in my view. It's yet another received footballing jargon myth. You're either one of the mahoosive guns, or you are in a lottery, one great season from europe, one bad season from the drop - Leicester fans and Palarse fans better enjoy this season. Or a few stupid but disastrous mistakes away from perennial struggle, like Newcastle, Villa and Sunderland. |
Leicester got Thai billionaires and Palace have just landed a 100million pound investment with more to come apparently if it goes tits up from their position then somin will have gone seriously wrong, we can't compete with that, unless we have genuine investment Mon IMO. [Post edited 4 Jan 2016 23:21]
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| Swans Finance Situation on 23:20 - Jan 4 with 1682 views | lifelong |
| Swans Finance Situation on 23:14 - Jan 4 by trampie |
It maybe generalising a little bit but in general terms every teams money go's straight into the players pockets. |
Also most, if not all, of what we pay for season tickets goes into agents pockets... It's madness. |  | | |
| Swans Finance Situation on 23:30 - Jan 4 with 2026 views | monmouth |
| Swans Finance Situation on 23:19 - Jan 4 by max936 |
Leicester got Thai billionaires and Palace have just landed a 100million pound investment with more to come apparently if it goes tits up from their position then somin will have gone seriously wrong, we can't compete with that, unless we have genuine investment Mon IMO. [Post edited 4 Jan 2016 23:21]
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Cardiff had a Malaysian 'billionaire' and Newcastle spent over 50m in the summer Max. Unless you have a sheik or a russian gangster that wants a toy, you are in our boat; you need to build a team. Lets see how Leicester replace Vardy and Mahrez and that no 14, when they clear off for a big clubs bench. | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 04:36 - Jan 5 with 1919 views | Starsky |
| Swans Finance Situation on 21:03 - Jan 4 by blaine_scfc |
Again, this may be a stupid question, I haven't got the knowledge that some seem to have on here in regards to revenues, profit and loss etc, but is being in the premiership sustainable for us?
We don't spend on players like other clubs do, and the ones we have spent on, we have generally moved on at a profit, but the words that stick out to me is £65 million in debt?!? Our commercial department are a bit of a shambles according to the figures, how do things get better? |
"How do things get better"
Hopefully, if we survive... We'll hang onto the extra revenue to improve the wages/income ratio. |  |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 07:01 - Jan 5 with 1872 views | waynekerr55 |
| Swans Finance Situation on 22:30 - Jan 4 by trampie |
That's not football though, you can have an academy and not produce a top quality first teamer for a decade and then you could have 2 or 3 in 2 or 3 years with them contributing to the success of the first team and getting sold on for millions and millions its not an exact science and not producing a top quality first teamer for 4 or 5 years does not necessarily mean the academy is failing, there again producing a star player that gets sold for a fortune doesn't necessarily mean its succeeding either as there is a lot of luck involved.
Lots of star players are born and not made. |
Sorry Trampie players arent born. Have you read bounce by Matthew sued? |  |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 10:07 - Jan 5 with 1774 views | trampie |
| Swans Finance Situation on 07:01 - Jan 5 by waynekerr55 |
Sorry Trampie players arent born. Have you read bounce by Matthew sued? |
I'm aware of it and disagree with him, as I do on lots of things he writes. | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 10:21 - Jan 5 with 1753 views | waynekerr55 |
| Swans Finance Situation on 10:07 - Jan 5 by trampie |
I'm aware of it and disagree with him, as I do on lots of things he writes. |
What's your counter critique? Not taking the proverbial, just genuinely interested
Have you read Malcolm Gladwell also?  | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 10:29 - Jan 5 with 1738 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Finance Situation on 10:21 - Jan 5 by waynekerr55 |
What's your counter critique? Not taking the proverbial, just genuinely interested
Have you read Malcolm Gladwell also? |
Syed was renowned for being one of the most boring, risk averse and defensive players in his sport. A lack of talent is no excuse for boring people into submission. He was the table tennis equivalent of George Graham's Arsenal but without the silverware. He's a good sports journo though. | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 10:34 - Jan 5 with 1726 views | waynekerr55 |
| Swans Finance Situation on 10:29 - Jan 5 by Uxbridge |
Syed was renowned for being one of the most boring, risk averse and defensive players in his sport. A lack of talent is no excuse for boring people into submission. He was the table tennis equivalent of George Graham's Arsenal but without the silverware. He's a good sports journo though. |
Reading about Myelin and learning in Gladwell certainly blows a large hole in the theory that all ability is innate.
I agree that genetics play a part, but without effective practice you cannot achieve expertise. Notice the regression of the English national side alongside the introduction of academies, which employ cheap coaches who have (generally) little understanding of the neuro science behind learning and skills development. | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 10:35 - Jan 5 with 1723 views | trampie |
| Swans Finance Situation on 10:21 - Jan 5 by waynekerr55 |
What's your counter critique? Not taking the proverbial, just genuinely interested
Have you read Malcolm Gladwell also? |
You could play golf for 10,000 hours in 10 years and still be rubbish.
I would think with most professional football clubs training all the time that lots of players have achieved 10,000 hours and some spend their whole career in div 4 and some their whole or at least most of their career in div 1 [Div 2 and Prem I think it is called these days].
Tennis is a good example, one on one and quite a skilful sport yet they all practice practice practice, yet certain players dominate all the time, Federer, Williams etc , so a player practicing hard does not mean they are going to be a champion, why because champions are born, there is more to being a champion than just practice as practice is the minimum requirement, can you teach determination, will to win, tactics in a split second, hand eye coordination, fitness and physic, mental application, dealing with stress, playing the officials, preying on opponents weaknesses during a game.
Its not just practice, champions tend to have a 'package' that makes them better, hence why people say champions are born and not made. | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 10:39 - Jan 5 with 1709 views | waynekerr55 |
| Swans Finance Situation on 10:35 - Jan 5 by trampie |
You could play golf for 10,000 hours in 10 years and still be rubbish.
I would think with most professional football clubs training all the time that lots of players have achieved 10,000 hours and some spend their whole career in div 4 and some their whole or at least most of their career in div 1 [Div 2 and Prem I think it is called these days].
Tennis is a good example, one on one and quite a skilful sport yet they all practice practice practice, yet certain players dominate all the time, Federer, Williams etc , so a player practicing hard does not mean they are going to be a champion, why because champions are born, there is more to being a champion than just practice as practice is the minimum requirement, can you teach determination, will to win, tactics in a split second, hand eye coordination, fitness and physic, mental application, dealing with stress, playing the officials, preying on opponents weaknesses during a game.
Its not just practice, champions tend to have a 'package' that makes them better, hence why people say champions are born and not made. |
Yes it's 10,000 hours of effective practice, that is challenging and pushes you. Think of driving a car. Most of us have driven for more than 10k hours, but won't be able to drive an F1 car. If you have sh*t practice then you become perfect at being sh*t. | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 10:44 - Jan 5 with 1695 views | trampie |
| Swans Finance Situation on 10:39 - Jan 5 by waynekerr55 |
Yes it's 10,000 hours of effective practice, that is challenging and pushes you. Think of driving a car. Most of us have driven for more than 10k hours, but won't be able to drive an F1 car. If you have sh*t practice then you become perfect at being sh*t. |
In pro sport they do have 10,000 hours of effective practice in lots of cases, yet some are champions and others are not.
The practice is a minimum requirement its not what makes them a champion, its a package of things and if all their competitors also have the same practice as the champions then its other things that separates them. | |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 10:54 - Jan 5 with 1678 views | WarwickHunt |
You're all wrong. It's practise. |  | | |
| Swans Finance Situation on 11:02 - Jan 5 with 1658 views | Jack_Kass |
| Swans Finance Situation on 10:44 - Jan 5 by trampie |
In pro sport they do have 10,000 hours of effective practice in lots of cases, yet some are champions and others are not.
The practice is a minimum requirement its not what makes them a champion, its a package of things and if all their competitors also have the same practice as the champions then its other things that separates them. |
10,000 hours of purposeful practise is the minimum required to achieve excellence, many of the top sports stars are argued to have achieved that by teenage years.
It's impossible for two individuals to have the same 'practise', skill acquisition is so complex, made up of an infinite amount of variables given to us every day. Identical twins out of the womb are already on a different level to one another.
Can you name one sports star who was 'born' to be a champion in their sport? [Post edited 5 Jan 2016 11:05]
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| Swans Finance Situation on 11:09 - Jan 5 with 1633 views | hammy |
| Swans Finance Situation on 19:31 - Jan 4 by hammy |
Is there an assessment of the assets that are the players (i.e., their potential transfer fees) ? This is a key difference between a football business and other businesses in that the value of the key assets are quite fluid and difficult to assess until they are actually sold.
The sale of say Shelvey for approx. £10M and his non-replacement, thereby saving on his fees / wages, would add a few million to the P&L this year no doubt.
We probably need to cut our cloth a little differently to clubs that have a sugar daddy willing to write-off debts / provide long-term loans. |
Anyone got any feedback on the initial question regarding assessment of player assets ? |  |
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| Swans Finance Situation on 11:16 - Jan 5 with 1620 views | jackonicko |
| Swans Finance Situation on 11:09 - Jan 5 by hammy |
Anyone got any feedback on the initial question regarding assessment of player assets ? |
In short, the answer to the question is no. The accounts don't show that.
The cost of the player is capitalised, and that cost is limited to the transfer fee, any transfer levies and any payments to intermediaries (agents). The cost is then spread over the length of the contract. If the player subsequently extends the contract, then the remaining cost on the balance sheet is spread out over the longer period.
Any remaining amounts on the balance sheet are written down (impaired) if the amount still remaining on the balance sheet exceeds the likely value that can be generated from any sale. However, no increases are made in the carrying value on the balance sheet, if the value of the player is thought to exceed the amount on the balance sheet.
So, the accounts do not give you any information on likely sale values. |  | | |
| Swans Finance Situation on 11:27 - Jan 5 with 1601 views | trampie |
| Swans Finance Situation on 11:02 - Jan 5 by Jack_Kass |
10,000 hours of purposeful practise is the minimum required to achieve excellence, many of the top sports stars are argued to have achieved that by teenage years.
It's impossible for two individuals to have the same 'practise', skill acquisition is so complex, made up of an infinite amount of variables given to us every day. Identical twins out of the womb are already on a different level to one another.
Can you name one sports star who was 'born' to be a champion in their sport? [Post edited 5 Jan 2016 11:05]
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The issue is not 10,000 hours of effective practice as lots of sports people meet that criteria, its some go on to be champions and others don't, other things separate them. | |
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