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David Davis + Boris on 19:32 - Jul 18 by essextaxiboy
I voted out after a lot of research and thinking about the future and the direction that the EU were moving towards . Most predictions of doom could be identified as being in self interest or guesswork by bodys or individuals with a history of getting it wrong .
I also took confidence in our place in the world and the respect it enjoys . I like to think though if remain had won I would have been more gracious in defeat than the elite who started to insult me and call me names and havnt stopped yet.
David Davis + Boris on 16:17 - Jul 18 by essextaxiboy
The non EU economy is growing faster than the EU .
We should wait until the ECB stop its quantatative easing programme(2.5 trillion Euro to date) before comparing economic performance.Its not a level playing field .
The EU budget would be in trouble if we leave without a deal but. If we protect ourselves and set up as a "Singapore " just over the channel the whole project is in trouble ....IMO
[Post edited 18 Jul 2018 17:19]
You and I are never likely to agree about the decision. But, i accept that you have given it some thought.
I agree, growth outside the EU is faster. But there's little to stop us trading with those other trading blocs. The EU has just signed an agreement with Japan, to add to the 60 countries it already has deals with.
Growth in EU27 may slow as QE is reined in, but it's still forecast to be quite a bit higher than UK.
I find it unlikely that the UK electorate would tolerate a low regulation, low rights economic model, having spent 45 years using a liberal social democratic alternative. Even if such a model could be introduced. Of course men of the people like JRM, Boris, Farage and Mr May would probably welcome such a change.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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David Davis + Boris on 13:05 - Jul 19 with 2392 views
A gammon-free vote would be lovely but everyone rightly can vote.
Though that doesn’t alter the fact that there are obviously plenty of “Little Englander” types. It’s not an insult aimed at all Leavers. It’s just a fact there’s an element of that in our society.
Many people disagree with me in all manner of things but I do not feel the need to insult them I wonder why you feel differently
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David Davis + Boris on 13:20 - Jul 19 with 2376 views
You seem to think I'm trying to trip you up ("nice try") - I'm not, but I'm not going to take your guesswork seriously on this with your track record on this point.
FWIW I still think May will cave in and go for Norway or at worst Canada.
Ok the thing seems to be that you are believing the newspapers. and I am not .
The Express have simply reported this to appeal to their readership in a "look how we are fcking up the foriegners" way.
On the Germans I dont see anything from the car manufacturers , I see something from a trade body.
I read that "sources told Reuters"and businesses "such as" Airbus .
A german automotive body is involved who represent Businesses "such as" BMW.
Both bodies did not name any companies involved in the task force meetings .
and thats all it is ... an article about some meetings ... IMO
Any how I am out for a while , trying to write my accounts up
all the best.......... ETB
[Post edited 19 Jul 2018 13:44]
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David Davis + Boris on 18:47 - Jul 19 with 2273 views
"[The UK Government] is like a family that sells their house, and has two years to find a new one. So they go to an estate agents, then spend 16 months arguing about whether to offer 25 quid for a detached house in Oxford.
Then some of them say “that’s a betrayal, if they don’t give us a house for nothing we’ll come to no deal and sleep in the park. That'll show them they can’t muck us about”."
UK industry (such as it is) will die a death... many car manufacturers have already signalled their intent to move production abroad. That may not be immediate, but as new models/engines/components are developed they'd be f***ing bonkers to produce anything in the UK with the potential for tariffs and customs hold ups - the lorry queue/car park will stretch from Dover to half way to Dartford.
And isn't it ironic that the EU has just struck a free-trade deal with Japan - something we'll be excluded from when we leave. A possible further incentive (if any were needed) for the likes of Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Sony et al to ditch the UK.
India is only too well aware of its growing importance in the world economy and won't be an easy target for a free trade deal and the USA couldn't frankly give a sh*t about us - Obama said we'd be at the 'back of the queue' in terms of a trade deal and Trump said the cabinets latest 'plan' would mean the USA couldn't agree a trade deal with us. OK, he went back on that (unconvincingly) - rather like his recent climb down on his 'would/wouldn't' comment in Russia. His only interest is himself and appeasing homeland voters to secure a second term, so no chance of a trade deal with the UK unless it is very much weighted in the USA's favour.
Does ANYONE here have a good thing to say about the way the current Brexit negotiations have been conducted - or have ANY realistic hope the country will come out of it well?
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David Davis + Boris on 20:00 - Jul 19 with 2245 views
"[The UK Government] is like a family that sells their house, and has two years to find a new one. So they go to an estate agents, then spend 16 months arguing about whether to offer 25 quid for a detached house in Oxford.
Then some of them say “that’s a betrayal, if they don’t give us a house for nothing we’ll come to no deal and sleep in the park. That'll show them they can’t muck us about”."
UK industry (such as it is) will die a death... many car manufacturers have already signalled their intent to move production abroad. That may not be immediate, but as new models/engines/components are developed they'd be f***ing bonkers to produce anything in the UK with the potential for tariffs and customs hold ups - the lorry queue/car park will stretch from Dover to half way to Dartford.
And isn't it ironic that the EU has just struck a free-trade deal with Japan - something we'll be excluded from when we leave. A possible further incentive (if any were needed) for the likes of Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Sony et al to ditch the UK.
India is only too well aware of its growing importance in the world economy and won't be an easy target for a free trade deal and the USA couldn't frankly give a sh*t about us - Obama said we'd be at the 'back of the queue' in terms of a trade deal and Trump said the cabinets latest 'plan' would mean the USA couldn't agree a trade deal with us. OK, he went back on that (unconvincingly) - rather like his recent climb down on his 'would/wouldn't' comment in Russia. His only interest is himself and appeasing homeland voters to secure a second term, so no chance of a trade deal with the UK unless it is very much weighted in the USA's favour.
Does ANYONE here have a good thing to say about the way the current Brexit negotiations have been conducted - or have ANY realistic hope the country will come out of it well?
You sure about the "many car manufacturers" all i read is more inward investment from the "many car manufacturers"
Do you seriously believe that the UK will not strike a trade deal with among many others Japan ?. Also is part of the EU/Japan trade deal based on the SM, CU and them being governed by the ECJ, here`s a clue, their not, so why should we ?
Obama made a statement last week or so that one of Camerons aides had asked him to say the "Back of the queue quote.
'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.'
I know it’s my fault for creating the post, but it’s the same arguments and counter arguments going round and round.
Like watching a washing machine.
Sorry was meant as an ironic joke re Jezza but forgot the wink smile as had a few and me takeaway arrived lol
People seem to slate him personally rather than what his actual policies are - Same goes for May e.g. on the Brexit white paper she came up with at Chequers . Interesting and good that Essex can't find anything wrong with it. I don't pay that much attention anymore (I'm quite on the fence on the whole thing lol) but it actually sounded (well to me) quite like what many leave campaigners were actually proposing in the lead up to the Vote ?
[Post edited 20 Jul 2018 13:10]
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David Davis + Boris on 20:56 - Jul 19 with 2191 views
You sure about the "many car manufacturers" all i read is more inward investment from the "many car manufacturers"
Do you seriously believe that the UK will not strike a trade deal with among many others Japan ?. Also is part of the EU/Japan trade deal based on the SM, CU and them being governed by the ECJ, here`s a clue, their not, so why should we ?
Obama made a statement last week or so that one of Camerons aides had asked him to say the "Back of the queue quote.
Obama 'statement' regarding Cameron was by an unnamed White House 'aide' - so probably as reliable as a QPR rumour put out by West London Sport.
Car manufacturers... and other industries (form a wide selection of right, left, centrist and neutral sources):
MINI AND ROLLS ROYCE (Independent) BMW has issued the starkest warning yet from a major business of the consequences of a hard Brexit by warning that lengthy custom checks could force the closure of its UK factories. A senior executive at the German car maker said significant delays in importing components once Britain has left the EU could end production at its UK plants, which include the factories making the Mini and Rolls-Royce cars.
NISSAN (FT) Nissan warns government on fate of Sunderland without deal. Carmaker says it is prepared to shift production to France and Spain.
and (Northern Echo)
Nissan is reluctant to invest any more money in its North-East factory while it’s "in the dark" about the UK's impending departure from the EU, the carmaker’s boss has said.
TOYOTA (Telegraph) With the vast majority of production at Toyota’s plant in Burnaston, Derbyshire being exported, any trade levies could hit its competitiveness. Today they export 85percent of production to continental Europe, so if we move to something like an import tax, trade tax or any kind of additional penalty, it will create a big negative impact in terms of competitiveness for this plant.
and (Reuters)
Didier Leroy, Toyota’s executive vice president, told Reuters: “A few months ago the UK government was saying, ’We’re sure we’ll be able to negotiate (a deal) without any trade tax.’ They are not saying that any more. “It’s clear that if we have to wait two to three more years to have a clarity on this topic, we will have a big question-mark about our future investment in the country.”
JAGUAR LAND ROVER (Daily Express) Britain's biggest car manufacturer, Jaguar Land Rover, will move production of its Land Rover Discovery model from the UK to Slovakia early next year.
and... (BBC)
Jaguar Land Rover boss: Brexit threatens £80bn UK investment.
(Reuters) Nissan, Honda, Toyota warn about Brexit high stakes Japan warned UK Prime Minister Theresa May that its companies would have to leave Britain if trade barriers after Brexit made them unprofitable.
(LSE) Major Japanese companies including carmakers, other manufacturers, and banks.... The Japanese ambassador has reiterated the warning that his country’s firms will leave Britain if Brexit makes it “unprofitable” to stay. “If there is no profitability of continuing operation in the UK, not Japanese only, no private company can continue operations,”
COMPUTER GAMING (a bigger industry than movies now) 40% of British gaming companies say they are looking at relocating their businesses because of Brexit. (BBC)
AIRBUS (Sky News) Airbus threatens to leave the UK because of uncertainty over Brexit The aeronautical company employs 14,000 people at several sites including Bristol, Stevenage and Portsmouth.
Happy days ahead...??
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David Davis + Boris on 22:03 - Jul 19 with 2160 views
David Davis + Boris on 13:20 - Jul 19 by essextaxiboy
These permits may be needed for Britons to drive legally in the EU if no agreement is reached on mutual recognition of existing driving licences.
"may" "if" and there are a few "could" s in the rest of the text .
Your post said" you'll" (you will) .
That is sort of what I am getting at , trying to get the facts among the speculation and inaccurate paraphrasing is hard .
So how did your pre-referendum research put it, then? Did it say you "might", "could", or "would" need an international driving permit? Or was it not actually mentioned at all?
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David Davis + Boris on 23:16 - Jul 19 with 2094 views
David Davis + Boris on 22:55 - Jul 19 by GloryHunter
So how did your pre-referendum research put it, then? Did it say you "might", "could", or "would" need an international driving permit? Or was it not actually mentioned at all?
It said I dont need one .
I drive 80000 miles a year , I would rather cut my leg off than drive on holiday
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David Davis + Boris on 23:30 - Jul 19 with 2079 views
Of course some investment will continue to be made, these companies can't switch off overnight.
Interesting you choose generally older articles, some of which go back 2 years.
Nissan to make Qashqai in UK - good news indeed. But what about the next derivation 5 years down the line? This is a long term problem.
Your quoted article about the Obama/Cameron discussion says exactly what I suggested, that the 'quote' was not from Obama, but by a former aide.
I think Brexit is the biggest national disaster since World War II and we're sleep-walking into it, led by the most inept, corrupt, self-serving (£12bn bribe to the DUP to buy their votes FFS), back-stabbing government, I have known in my lifetime.
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David Davis + Boris on 12:39 - Jul 20 with 1941 views
Of course some investment will continue to be made, these companies can't switch off overnight.
Interesting you choose generally older articles, some of which go back 2 years.
Nissan to make Qashqai in UK - good news indeed. But what about the next derivation 5 years down the line? This is a long term problem.
Your quoted article about the Obama/Cameron discussion says exactly what I suggested, that the 'quote' was not from Obama, but by a former aide.
I think Brexit is the biggest national disaster since World War II and we're sleep-walking into it, led by the most inept, corrupt, self-serving (£12bn bribe to the DUP to buy their votes FFS), back-stabbing government, I have known in my lifetime.
One of my links is from 2 years ago and more recently as June of this year, where as your copy and paste replies are just that with no dates at all. If you wish to live in perpetual doom and gloom so be it, i would rather look forward to what we can achieve working with the wider world. As for the conservatives i agree they`ve made a complete hash of Brexit, but lets be honest Labour could quite easily have been in power had they set their vision for us leaving the EU from the outset, but they don`t want to run this country during this process and would rather sit on the fence and take cheap shots at all and sundry instead of stepping up.
LISTEN | Cameron colluded with foreign power during Remain campaign & asked Obama to say we'd be at the "back of the queue", says former White House staffer Ben Rhodes. We knew it all along, now it's official!
One of my links is from 2 years ago and more recently as June of this year, where as your copy and paste replies are just that with no dates at all. If you wish to live in perpetual doom and gloom so be it, i would rather look forward to what we can achieve working with the wider world. As for the conservatives i agree they`ve made a complete hash of Brexit, but lets be honest Labour could quite easily have been in power had they set their vision for us leaving the EU from the outset, but they don`t want to run this country during this process and would rather sit on the fence and take cheap shots at all and sundry instead of stepping up.
LISTEN | Cameron colluded with foreign power during Remain campaign & asked Obama to say we'd be at the "back of the queue", says former White House staffer Ben Rhodes. We knew it all along, now it's official!
"i would rather look forward to what we can achieve working with the wider world".
Serious question: Which parts of the world are we currently unable to trade with due to our membership of the EU? I distinctly remember TV footage from China of various Conservative minsters, including Cameron, putting the spotlight on new export deals the UK had done.
While I am here, remember that 50% of our exports go to the EU. It's a numbers game, we cannot sign a deal or deals with other countries or regions which will come anywhere near that level.
In the long run, Brexit may be a good thing - although I don't think we will ever quite get our exports up to where they were before the Brexit vote - but in the short term, there is a vast amount of trade and investment which is at serious risk.
Oh, and when I see people or organisations raging against companies threatening to leave the UK and telling those companies to just clear off, I think: "But what about their UK employees? Some of them might actually want to keep their jobs, especially as successive governments have put so much focus on south east England that employment prospects in huge swathes of the UK are now poor to non-existent".
RFA
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
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David Davis + Boris on 13:39 - Jul 20 with 1877 views
Agreed, Labour have been as f***ing clueless as the Tories.
Only the LibDems have a coherent view on the EU, but they ain't going to get anywhere in the debate or have any influence at all.
I don't understand what world markets could realistically replace the EU, but I admire your optimism on how Britain is going to trade with and influence rest of the world after Brexit.
I think it unlikely Europe will agree a deal that is in anyway beneficial to the UK - they (understandably perhaps) want to make it as hard as possible for us as an example to other members who may be thinking about leaving.
We clearly differ in our view on industry's general reaction to Brexit. That is where the focus of talks/tariffs/free-trade is taking place.
But only around 20% of the UK's economy relies on industry - 80% is services-based. As far as I understand, there are to be no concessions/agreements on allowing us access to European services markets.
As the 2nd or 3rd biggest EU economy, if the UK was a Premier League club, we'd be arguably be Man U or Spurs.
We are voluntarily leaving the Premier League to play in the Conference (or whatever it's called these days), while telling everyone we have a great chance of qualifying for Champions League football.
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David Davis + Boris on 14:06 - Jul 20 with 1842 views
David Davis + Boris on 13:26 - Jul 20 by R_from_afar
"i would rather look forward to what we can achieve working with the wider world".
Serious question: Which parts of the world are we currently unable to trade with due to our membership of the EU? I distinctly remember TV footage from China of various Conservative minsters, including Cameron, putting the spotlight on new export deals the UK had done.
While I am here, remember that 50% of our exports go to the EU. It's a numbers game, we cannot sign a deal or deals with other countries or regions which will come anywhere near that level.
In the long run, Brexit may be a good thing - although I don't think we will ever quite get our exports up to where they were before the Brexit vote - but in the short term, there is a vast amount of trade and investment which is at serious risk.
Oh, and when I see people or organisations raging against companies threatening to leave the UK and telling those companies to just clear off, I think: "But what about their UK employees? Some of them might actually want to keep their jobs, especially as successive governments have put so much focus on south east England that employment prospects in huge swathes of the UK are now poor to non-existent".
RFA
"Which parts of the world are we currently unable to trade with due to our membership of the EU?"
Now I really am confused. Can we make trade agreements, over tariffs for example, with country's outside he EU or not
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David Davis + Boris on 14:32 - Jul 20 with 1819 views
"While I am here, remember that 50% of our exports go to the EU. It's a numbers game, we cannot sign a deal or deals with other countries or regions which will come anywhere near that level"
That`s because of the CU. No tariffs are imposed on goods going out as well as coming in, like i said in an earlier post "A protectionist club". Now think if we struck up free trade and tariff agreements with other parts of the world, namely generally poorer parts ie Africa, india etc. It would`nt be lawyers, lobbyists and quangos linning their pockets it would be the populations of said countries. A more equal balance of wealth.
'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.'
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