| Brexit .... My thoughts... 11:07 - Jun 16 with 146158 views | JacksDad |
The one thing I am certain of re this vote is that no-one knows for sure what the repercussions economically will be if we pull out. If you listen to the experts it will be better if we stay in, however its all unconvincing. My issue is that after 10 years of Austerity, the services in this country have been cut to the bone, that is services that are needed by us all - not just Immigrants/benefit spongers. We are not in a position to afford the enormous gamble if it all goes t1ts up. I am taking my lead from Ray Winston and gambling responsibly and staying in. If we ever get to situation when everything is adequately funded and horrible 0 hours contracts were abolished ... then maybe it might be worth the risk to pull out. But to do it now is a massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose. |  | | |  |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:29 - Jun 29 with 1903 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Ok, thanks lads. I understand now. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:46 - Jun 29 with 1875 views | TacticalR |
@BklynRanger 'I assume the leadership race will be between Boris and a slightly more pro-Europe/moderate candidate.'
If that's the case, and if the more pro-Europe candidate won, then we would be in the strange situation of the pro-Europe candidate negotiating our exit from Europe (Cameron steered clear of that mess).
That could lead to the nationalists complaining that the pro-Europe candidate didn't conduct the exit negotiations properly, just as Trump complains that America doesn't conduct trade deals properly (when 'US jobs' go abroad).
Such Euro-traitors should be sniffed out before it's too late! |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:51 - Jun 29 with 1862 views | derbyhoop |
The rest of the EU have said there will be no access to the Single Market without free movement, i.e. immigration. And Hollande said the UK would have to pay a contribution to access the Single Market.
So what will we have gained? |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:55 - Jun 29 with 1855 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:51 - Jun 29 by derbyhoop |
The rest of the EU have said there will be no access to the Single Market without free movement, i.e. immigration. And Hollande said the UK would have to pay a contribution to access the Single Market.
So what will we have gained? |
Very cynical. Haven't you read Sarah Vine's column in the Mail? Or Katie Hopkins' latest tweets? They're ecstatic. Why shouldn't we be? |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:58 - Jun 29 with 1844 views | BklynRanger |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:46 - Jun 29 by TacticalR |
@BklynRanger 'I assume the leadership race will be between Boris and a slightly more pro-Europe/moderate candidate.'
If that's the case, and if the more pro-Europe candidate won, then we would be in the strange situation of the pro-Europe candidate negotiating our exit from Europe (Cameron steered clear of that mess).
That could lead to the nationalists complaining that the pro-Europe candidate didn't conduct the exit negotiations properly, just as Trump complains that America doesn't conduct trade deals properly (when 'US jobs' go abroad).
Such Euro-traitors should be sniffed out before it's too late! |
I think that's exactly what's going to happen Tactical. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:08 - Jun 29 with 1821 views | TacticalR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:58 - Jun 29 by BklynRanger |
I think that's exactly what's going to happen Tactical. |
Well, there are a couple of big 'ifs' in there. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:09 - Jun 29 with 1813 views | BklynRanger |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:08 - Jun 29 by TacticalR |
Well, there are a couple of big 'ifs' in there. |
I think the ifs are already edging in that direction. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:12 - Jun 29 with 1810 views | Rs_Holy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:44 - Jun 29 by THEBUSH |
Bilderberg, TTIP, Lobbyists, Offshore Bank AccountS, exist now or in the case of the TTIP is gonna happen, in both the UK and the EU, whether we are in or out.
I think it's a treacherous thing that the 52% have done, it's turned friend against friend, probably brought forward the break up of the UK and now the racists are having a field day, thanks to Farage and Co. |
The vast majority of the 51.9% voted out for honourable reasons!
There was no beating my chest and waving the Union Jack on Friday morning. I was genuinely saddened that things didn’t work out in the EU. On principle I voted out based of democracy and accountability, plus increased centralisation and a total lack of flexibility from Brussels.
When asked, I fully accepted that the UK economy would experience tough times initially before re-establishing itself in the medium term, (once we had become more efficient and developed trade agreements with non EU countries around the world).
What I didn’t foresee was the rise of the far right and their perceived legitimacy in spouting (and daubing) their racist bile! This is not what I (and millions of others) voted for! It sickens me more than any other aspect of the result.
I didn’t see the total meltdown of the two main political parties in the UK, resulting in no leadership and no credible opposition to the government. We are on the verge of a full on crisis unless they get their act together.
I also thought that Farage (job done) would just retire and disappear quietly rather than pulling down what remains of the bridges between the UK and the EU. I wasn’t cheering him on when he poured oil on troubled waters yesterday… (quite the opposite).
Although in the minority there were some heavy hitters from politics and industry who added their weight to the OUT campaign. It wasn’t just Farage and his party trying to convince the voters!
Immigration was the least important factor in my vote. I have directly seen how migration can benefit the country. I have colleagues and friends who are immigrants (some who have said they would have voted out to stop the influx of more immigrants!!!).
Would I vote out again… NO!... For the reasons mentioned above and my complete ignorance of just how passionately young people wished to stay in (something I didn't appreciate until Friday morning).
The EU is flawed in so many ways and does not appear to be willing to entertain any thoughts of addressing these flaws. I still totally believe in the principles of democracy and accountability but in hindsight these ideals appear to come at a price too high to pay! [Post edited 29 Jun 2016 18:41]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:05 - Jun 29 with 1742 views | bob566 |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:12 - Jun 29 by Rs_Holy |
The vast majority of the 51.9% voted out for honourable reasons!
There was no beating my chest and waving the Union Jack on Friday morning. I was genuinely saddened that things didn’t work out in the EU. On principle I voted out based of democracy and accountability, plus increased centralisation and a total lack of flexibility from Brussels.
When asked, I fully accepted that the UK economy would experience tough times initially before re-establishing itself in the medium term, (once we had become more efficient and developed trade agreements with non EU countries around the world).
What I didn’t foresee was the rise of the far right and their perceived legitimacy in spouting (and daubing) their racist bile! This is not what I (and millions of others) voted for! It sickens me more than any other aspect of the result.
I didn’t see the total meltdown of the two main political parties in the UK, resulting in no leadership and no credible opposition to the government. We are on the verge of a full on crisis unless they get their act together.
I also thought that Farage (job done) would just retire and disappear quietly rather than pulling down what remains of the bridges between the UK and the EU. I wasn’t cheering him on when he poured oil on troubled waters yesterday… (quite the opposite).
Although in the minority there were some heavy hitters from politics and industry who added their weight to the OUT campaign. It wasn’t just Farage and his party trying to convince the voters!
Immigration was the least important factor in my vote. I have directly seen how migration can benefit the country. I have colleagues and friends who are immigrants (some who have said they would have voted out to stop the influx of more immigrants!!!).
Would I vote out again… NO!... For the reasons mentioned above and my complete ignorance of just how passionately young people wished to stay in (something I didn't appreciate until Friday morning).
The EU is flawed in so many ways and does not appear to be willing to entertain any thoughts of addressing these flaws. I still totally believe in the principles of democracy and accountability but in hindsight these ideals appear to come at a price too high to pay! [Post edited 29 Jun 2016 18:41]
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apart from this chap
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/man-who-voted-for-leave-says-he-thought-his-vote-w | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:14 - Jun 29 with 1726 views | DeepcutHoop |
Add my mum to that list, who voted because of immigration. She has since changed her mind now she realises she was misled. And my brother-in-law, who works for the NHS, who now realises that it's more likely to be privatised under the current set-up than it was in the EU,
Both believed the Leave side when they were told any warnings were scare-mongering.
Frustrating | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:26 - Jun 29 with 1698 views | TacticalR |
I don't think you have anything to apologise for Rs_Holy.
Who could have foreseen the implosion of the two mainstream parties?
On the gist of your post...the whole point about nationalism is that it's all things to all men. It let some believe (or say that they believed) that there would be more state intervention (e.g. via spending on the NHS or in impoverished areas), others to believe that there would be less state intervention (e.g. UKIP's Douglas Carswell is a free marketeer), others to believe that immigrants would be cleared out without further ado. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:30 - Jun 29 with 1692 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:14 - Jun 29 by DeepcutHoop |
Add my mum to that list, who voted because of immigration. She has since changed her mind now she realises she was misled. And my brother-in-law, who works for the NHS, who now realises that it's more likely to be privatised under the current set-up than it was in the EU,
Both believed the Leave side when they were told any warnings were scare-mongering.
Frustrating |
The Economist Intelligence Unit, who are a pretty sober and non-dramatic bunch lent on by a lot of finance houses, have just revised their forecast for the UK from 1.5% growth next year to a 1% contraction.
Says lack of credibility in government now = lack of stability in the eyes of the world = long term recession.
Next British PM will have to eat "heroic amounts of humble pie" to get into the EEA, and the lack of change in immigration numbers will help fuel the growth of the Far Right.
This is their dude. It's pretty grim reading.
https://twitter.com/AlexWhite1812 | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:54 - Jun 29 with 1658 views | TacticalR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:30 - Jun 29 by DannytheR |
The Economist Intelligence Unit, who are a pretty sober and non-dramatic bunch lent on by a lot of finance houses, have just revised their forecast for the UK from 1.5% growth next year to a 1% contraction.
Says lack of credibility in government now = lack of stability in the eyes of the world = long term recession.
Next British PM will have to eat "heroic amounts of humble pie" to get into the EEA, and the lack of change in immigration numbers will help fuel the growth of the Far Right.
This is their dude. It's pretty grim reading.
https://twitter.com/AlexWhite1812 |
Fair enough, but Britain was already characterised by low growth and recession. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 19:15 - Jun 29 with 1632 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:54 - Jun 29 by TacticalR |
Fair enough, but Britain was already characterised by low growth and recession. |
Growing consensus is that we ain't seen nothing yet. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 19:20 - Jun 29 with 1626 views | DannytheR |
Admire Rs Holy for that post. Whatever the debate it takes guts to say you might have made the wrong decision, and that things have unintended consequences. We've all called things wrong in our time, I know I have. (Ironically, including putting 40 quid on QPR getting into Europe at the start of 1995/96). [Post edited 29 Jun 2016 19:21]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 19:24 - Jun 29 with 1615 views | kensalriser |
A vote for Leave was always a vote for high risk and unintended consequences. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 19:30 - Jun 29 with 1609 views | SuffolkHoop |
1000 |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:12 - Jun 29 with 2426 views | DannytheR |
When you say "the stock market", I'm guessing you mean the FTSE100. Not a particularly good guide, for various reasons well explained here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/27/why-we-should-be-looking-at-the-f
The FTSE250 is still performing very poorly. Picked up a bit today from the jaw-dropping lows of yesterday morning, but still in bad shape.
The article you've linked to is made up of speculative stuff saying that some countries will be open to trading with us, in some form. Ghana seem to be the keenest.
If you're using a listicle from Heatstreet (a clickbait operation run by Louise Mensch) as the basis for your optimism, I can only be glad you haven't had any say in my family's financial future.
Except sadly you have. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:47 - Jun 29 with 2370 views | DannytheR |
Hard for the FTSE 250 to do anything but climb after the biggest fall in recorded financial history. And the consensus is that things have stabilised to the extent they have because of the increasing sense that Article 50 might not ever be triggered. Which begs the question what the point of the vote actually was.
When you say "America's desire" you are talking about a public statement from Paul Ryan, right? Who has no power to strike any such deal, and as the article says, doesn't even have the rest of the Republican party behind him in saying it? I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.
Tory plot? I've got very limited interest in party politics. This is about money. The money is only saying one thing.
By all means, you stick with Louise Mensch though. That trade agreement with the Faroe Islands sounds great. [Post edited 29 Jun 2016 20:47]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:04 - Jun 29 with 2343 views | DannytheR |
Ah, but we both know there's nothing that would ever convince you to change your opinion, and that you'd never be able to admit it if it did.
In terms of investments and money, people have to do what they think best for themselves and their family. That's what I'm doing, and I'm happy with the guidance of the people I take it from.
You're taking it from Heatstreet, a website whose homepage now includes a piece about "Babes in Bikinis for Trump." [Post edited 29 Jun 2016 21:05]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:13 - Jun 29 with 2320 views | BasingstokeR |
If we wouldn't really be "at the back of the queue" (which I thought Obama stood by, but I guess he's gone November), are we sure a deal with the USA wouldn't just end up as some sort of a bilateral version of TTIP? Potentially a Trump TTIP. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:13 - Jun 29 with 2319 views | Rs_Holy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 19:20 - Jun 29 by DannytheR |
Admire Rs Holy for that post. Whatever the debate it takes guts to say you might have made the wrong decision, and that things have unintended consequences. We've all called things wrong in our time, I know I have. (Ironically, including putting 40 quid on QPR getting into Europe at the start of 1995/96). [Post edited 29 Jun 2016 19:21]
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Cheers Mate...
I voted out for legitimate reasons and a feeling that it would be of benefit to most in the long run...
But it has become very ugly with huge divisions surfacing in Britain. In or out, we would still have these divisions, but we would have delayed facing them for a while longer if the vote had been different.
This of course creates a problem getting the people to agree on the terms of leaving... Free market and free movement of people? If you remove the outers who have changed their mind, and the outers who are who are not bothered about immigration...Add those to the 48%
then you have a majority of the public. Quite what happens in the north of England at that point is anyone's guess...?
These are crazy times... I really wouldn't be surprised if we have another referendum to gauge public opinion on the options available??? | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:23 - Jun 29 with 2290 views | DannytheR |
"Dr Wellings said Brexit would also have a significant impact on of Australian trade, with neither the EU nor the UK as attractive without the other."
But then we've all heard enough from experts. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:42 - Jun 29 with 2246 views | DannytheR |
Louise Mensch is the editor of Heatstreet. That's just a fact. It is Louise Mensch's website.
I'd have thought you'd given me credit for refraining from mentioning it's also bankrolled by Rupert Murdoch.
Let's face it, the actual quotes from Turnball aren't positive or negative. They just sound very, very cautious ("there are opportunities and challenges... we are keeping a close eye on it.") If that's the most enthusiastic response we're getting from another English speaking economy, I'm not sure it's quite time for the champagne.
Medium term EEA does look the likeliest outcome I agree, although God knows what shape we'll be in by the time we get there, or how much the EU will rub our faces in it first.
And by then the Out voters who voted on the basis of immigration will have realised they were being led up the garden path the whole time.
Economics aside, that's when the real bad news starts. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:22 - Jun 30 with 2058 views | R_from_afar |
Perhaps it isn't all bad news - man, I hope that's true for all our sakes because we are stuck with Brexit now and need to try to work together to try to secure our future - but jeopardising 40% of the UK's exports by exiting the EU was extremely risky, for the short term at the very least.
While I am here, does anyone know the technical term for something which is worse than an omnishambles? 
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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