| Christmas Carnage? 13:11 - Dec 18 with 34971 views | Sadoldgit |
Infection rates are generally rising fast despite the tier systems so you can imagine the spike after the free for all Christmas period. Johnson obviously doesn’t want to be seen as a Grinch but by not closing down Christmas there will be a lot fewer people enjoying it with their loved ones next year.
We are battening down the hatches this Christmas. I just hope that people are sensible and do the same. Sadly though I think people will just go for it and be damned. |  | | |  |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:48 - Jan 19 with 1534 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:42 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
' I think the government had done a reasonable job considering'
Really! |
Tell me what they have done wrong, that governments haven't also got wrong in many other countries? |  |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 16:49 - Jan 19 with 1531 views | Sadoldgit |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:42 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
' I think the government had done a reasonable job considering'
Really! |
We were told that a mortality rate around 20,000 would be a good result. We are heading for 100,000. | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:51 - Jan 19 with 1526 views | Sadoldgit |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:37 - Jan 19 by Saintsforeverj |
Yes the lockdown is starting to work. Crucially, infection rates today, are half of what they were last Monday. The death rate won't come down until the reduced infection rate has an impact. The Norway thing has been discredited. We are heading out of this. |
I’m not sure discredited is the right word. It is just that they are not sure at the moment if the deaths were down to side effects of the drug or wether that would have died anyway as they we all elderly. | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:54 - Jan 19 with 1517 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:51 - Jan 19 by Sadoldgit |
I’m not sure discredited is the right word. It is just that they are not sure at the moment if the deaths were down to side effects of the drug or wether that would have died anyway as they we all elderly. |
But nobody has died here or anywhere else after having the vaccine, and 4 million have had it here. Don't know much about the Norway thing, other than seeing today that they think the vaccine wasn't the cause. Over 4 million have had it here, no deaths so I would say it is fine. [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 16:56]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 17:01 - Jan 19 with 1508 views | grumpy |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:48 - Jan 19 by Saintsforeverj |
Tell me what they have done wrong, that governments haven't also got wrong in many other countries? |
To slow to act.
Care Homes Debacle.
Track and Trace.
Ap that didn't work,
PPE
Airport Restrictions.
etc etc |  | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:05 - Jan 19 with 1503 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:01 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
To slow to act.
Care Homes Debacle.
Track and Trace.
Ap that didn't work,
PPE
Airport Restrictions.
etc etc |
Yes, but that is the same in other countries!! Too slow to act - so was Scotland's decision to lockdown on the same day after Christmas also not slow? Were there not lots of deaths in care homes in other countries? Sweden who didn't lockdown, had a huge number of care home deaths. They are now locking down, as their care system can't cope. Their people are furious with their government. Has track and trace worked there?
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/01/19/sweden-backtracks-covid-19-appro
From what I can see governments have got things wrong all over the globe. It is not just here is it. What is on your list that has only gone wrong here in England? [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 17:40]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 21:13 - Jan 19 with 1451 views | grumpy |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:05 - Jan 19 by Saintsforeverj |
Yes, but that is the same in other countries!! Too slow to act - so was Scotland's decision to lockdown on the same day after Christmas also not slow? Were there not lots of deaths in care homes in other countries? Sweden who didn't lockdown, had a huge number of care home deaths. They are now locking down, as their care system can't cope. Their people are furious with their government. Has track and trace worked there?
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/01/19/sweden-backtracks-covid-19-appro
From what I can see governments have got things wrong all over the globe. It is not just here is it. What is on your list that has only gone wrong here in England? [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 17:40]
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I only care what's going on here, not anywhere else.
The Fatalities now are horrendous and questions will be asked, you can be sure of that.
I feel so sorry for the NHS,they are incredible. | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 21:20 - Jan 19 with 1438 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 21:13 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
I only care what's going on here, not anywhere else.
The Fatalities now are horrendous and questions will be asked, you can be sure of that.
I feel so sorry for the NHS,they are incredible. |
The NHS certainly are incredible. But all those criticising the decisions here and all over the world, perhaps haven't got a clue about how difficult / impossible this situation has been. Easy for people sat at home after the event, to say that they have all the answers, and how they would have made the perfect decisions at the perfect time, when the world is struggling nearly everywhere you look! | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 21:30 - Jan 19 with 1432 views | grumpy |
| Christmas Carnage? on 21:20 - Jan 19 by Saintsforeverj |
The NHS certainly are incredible. But all those criticising the decisions here and all over the world, perhaps haven't got a clue about how difficult / impossible this situation has been. Easy for people sat at home after the event, to say that they have all the answers, and how they would have made the perfect decisions at the perfect time, when the world is struggling nearly everywhere you look! |
So if you have a different opinion on how things are going, you should not give them because its such a difficult / impossible situation? | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 21:36 - Jan 19 with 1431 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 21:30 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
So if you have a different opinion on how things are going, you should not give them because its such a difficult / impossible situation? |
You could have the opinion that you think Saints should be winning the league every year. Entitled to say it, if that's your opinion but most understand it's almost impossible and unfair. So yeah, if you want to criticise in an impossible / difficult situation that's your opinion, but it's not realistic is it, to expect our country to get everything right in an unprecedented situation when the whole world is struggling. But yeah if that's what you think fine! | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 21:39 - Jan 19 with 1429 views | grumpy |
| Christmas Carnage? on 21:36 - Jan 19 by Saintsforeverj |
You could have the opinion that you think Saints should be winning the league every year. Entitled to say it, if that's your opinion but most understand it's almost impossible and unfair. So yeah, if you want to criticise in an impossible / difficult situation that's your opinion, but it's not realistic is it, to expect our country to get everything right in an unprecedented situation when the whole world is struggling. But yeah if that's what you think fine! |
Who said anything about expecting our country to get everything right, just put what they don't right. | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 23:44 - Jan 19 with 1401 views | Bison |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:49 - Jan 19 by Sadoldgit |
We were told that a mortality rate around 20,000 would be a good result. We are heading for 100,000. |
I remember that as well.
Where did Boris get that figure from ?
What the a bloody idiot he should have all pandemic qualifications removed from his CV.
As for the scientists , they can only go on the information they get regarding stock markets , the affect on the pound and un-employment rates. Suicides and lack of cancer care was obviously on the scientist minds as well.
Yet Boris said 20,000 , or did the scientist ?
Whatever blame Boris. |  |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:29 - Jan 20 with 1319 views | Sadoldgit |
| Christmas Carnage? on 23:44 - Jan 19 by Bison |
I remember that as well.
Where did Boris get that figure from ?
What the a bloody idiot he should have all pandemic qualifications removed from his CV.
As for the scientists , they can only go on the information they get regarding stock markets , the affect on the pound and un-employment rates. Suicides and lack of cancer care was obviously on the scientist minds as well.
Yet Boris said 20,000 , or did the scientist ?
Whatever blame Boris. |
I didn’t mention Boris.
If the medical adviser said that a good result would be a death rate of 20,000 wouldn’t you wonder why the people making the decisions have managed to generate a figure of nearly 100,000? | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:27 - Jan 21 with 1226 views | saint22 |
| Christmas Carnage? on 21:20 - Jan 19 by Saintsforeverj |
The NHS certainly are incredible. But all those criticising the decisions here and all over the world, perhaps haven't got a clue about how difficult / impossible this situation has been. Easy for people sat at home after the event, to say that they have all the answers, and how they would have made the perfect decisions at the perfect time, when the world is struggling nearly everywhere you look! |
Personally I don't think banning people entering Britain through airports or insisting on negative covid tests prior to travel was such a difficult decision to take last year, god knows why its taken until now? | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 11:38 - Jan 21 with 1204 views | Berber |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:49 - Jan 19 by Sadoldgit |
We were told that a mortality rate around 20,000 would be a good result. We are heading for 100,000. |
But they didn't say 20,000 was an upper target. 20,000 would have been a good result. The media don's accept a "We can't tell you" answers, even if it would have been justified but as soon as any number is mentioned, it becomes a "promise" and a stick to beat ministers with, followed by "Are you going to resign?" or "Are you going to apologise?" Ministers know the game, the media know the game, and we all know the game. Sensible folk just don't play it.
I don't have any problem with the suggestion that 100,000 deaths is way too high, and could have been significantly reduced if decisions had been taken days or a week sooner each time the case numbers started to ascend. That is the real criticism and a valid source of frustration. However, the Scottish witch has always jumped in before everyone else, based on the same information, and their case loads, death rates and critical care crises have not been notably better than the rest of the UK, if at all.
On the other hand, parliament (and the media) bitches if the government tries to implement immediate action without due process so then any changes have to be announced to commence several day later as correct scheduling to be debated and agreed by parliament is followed. At the end of the day, all the tools that can be used for control (apart from vaccination) are crude at best. On vaccination, Britain is leading the way worldwide, so it isn't all bad. |  |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 11:42 - Jan 21 with 1204 views | Sadoldgit |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:27 - Jan 21 by saint22 |
Personally I don't think banning people entering Britain through airports or insisting on negative covid tests prior to travel was such a difficult decision to take last year, god knows why its taken until now? |
Indeed. And to say that it is a very difficult situation is obvious, but we have the worst death rate in Europe and it is not unreasonable to ask why so many important decisions have been taken much too late. It isn’t as if we weren’t given plenty of warning by what happen last spring. | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 13:05 - Jan 21 with 1187 views | Sadoldgit |
Glasto cancelled again this year. It’s a shame but not surprising. | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 14:33 - Jan 21 with 1163 views | Berber |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:29 - Jan 20 by Sadoldgit |
I didn’t mention Boris.
If the medical adviser said that a good result would be a death rate of 20,000 wouldn’t you wonder why the people making the decisions have managed to generate a figure of nearly 100,000? |
At the time, the scientists didn't have a lot to go on either, but it was better than nothing. Another factor that was really wrong, in line with failing to restrict incoming travel (I, like many other people spotted that nearly all of the early cases had been skiing in Italy, so not hard to make a connection with the travel link) was allowing selfish pleasure seekers to go on holiday abroad, along with similar from all around Europe, then bringing more of the virus back to the UK. I am still furious about that.
At a time when all the media and the government were on about lost jobs etc, when the economy could do with a big boost, the government allowed these cluts to go and spend tens of millions (at least) in another country, when businesses here were desperate for a bit of help, as well as bringing another wave of virus back here. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 10:47 - Jan 27 with 988 views | dirk_doone |
I like Boris. He is a charming man but he isn't the right person to be in charge of a country at a time like this. Admittedly the alternatives on offer at the last election were pretty abysmal but a government of national unity like we have in wartime would take the political posturing out of the equation:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55820178 [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 10:48]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 11:12 - Jan 27 with 962 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:47 - Jan 27 by dirk_doone |
I like Boris. He is a charming man but he isn't the right person to be in charge of a country at a time like this. Admittedly the alternatives on offer at the last election were pretty abysmal but a government of national unity like we have in wartime would take the political posturing out of the equation:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55820178 [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 10:48]
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The government are saying that now isn't the right time to be reviewing where things went wrong but I am now wondering whether, had they asked that question in early summer they might have learnt a few lessons and avoided (or mitigated better) was has turned out to be a horrendous second wave.
The problem all along has been that (a) Johnson is all about positivity, so he hates delivering bad news and has therefore delayed every important social restriction until his hand has been completely forced and (b) there is a fairly sizeable chunk of the Tory parliamentary party that is ideologically opposed to too many restrictions. We have therefore restricted too late and come out of restrictions too early. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 11:54 - Jan 27 with 940 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 11:12 - Jan 27 by DorsetIan |
The government are saying that now isn't the right time to be reviewing where things went wrong but I am now wondering whether, had they asked that question in early summer they might have learnt a few lessons and avoided (or mitigated better) was has turned out to be a horrendous second wave.
The problem all along has been that (a) Johnson is all about positivity, so he hates delivering bad news and has therefore delayed every important social restriction until his hand has been completely forced and (b) there is a fairly sizeable chunk of the Tory parliamentary party that is ideologically opposed to too many restrictions. We have therefore restricted too late and come out of restrictions too early. |
I am for the lockdown and in hindsight, they should have closed the beaches last summer, closed the borders and actioned lockdown before Christmas. Stricter controls could and should have been in place rather than trusting the selfish public. But how many people would have kicked up last summer though, not knowing what was to come? I don't envy being a leader in any country at the moment.
There is now massive pressure to open schools. Should he, shouldn't he? What would you do if you were being told that you are destroying kids' lives and future life chances but at the same time opening them risks lives? Many saying we have to get the economy going and open up or again lives are destroyed. People die from the virus if you open up, people's lives destroyed if you don't. Longer lockdowns? They are rioting in the Netherlands. Its all very easy for people to sit at home and say the wrong decisions have been made. Scientists just come from one viewpoint. They don't have an interest in those losing their jobs or civil unrest. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 11:59]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 12:12 - Jan 27 with 930 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 11:54 - Jan 27 by Saintsforeverj |
I am for the lockdown and in hindsight, they should have closed the beaches last summer, closed the borders and actioned lockdown before Christmas. Stricter controls could and should have been in place rather than trusting the selfish public. But how many people would have kicked up last summer though, not knowing what was to come? I don't envy being a leader in any country at the moment.
There is now massive pressure to open schools. Should he, shouldn't he? What would you do if you were being told that you are destroying kids' lives and future life chances but at the same time opening them risks lives? Many saying we have to get the economy going and open up or again lives are destroyed. People die from the virus if you open up, people's lives destroyed if you don't. Longer lockdowns? They are rioting in the Netherlands. Its all very easy for people to sit at home and say the wrong decisions have been made. Scientists just come from one viewpoint. They don't have an interest in those losing their jobs or civil unrest. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 11:59]
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Nobody is saying the decisions are easy, or that lockdowns don't have serious negative consequences.
And it is difficult when, whatever happened, there were always going to be deaths and economic damage, to imagine how it could ever have been good. But things could certainly have been better (deaths in Germany, for example, about 54,000).
And the fact remains that we are now over 100,000 deaths, we have been in two long lockdowns and we are borrowing over £25 billion every month to cover the economic costs. The facts do seem to speak for themselves in terms of how successful the government's approach has been and I personally think that much is down to the decisions Johnson has made. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 12:23 - Jan 27 with 918 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 12:12 - Jan 27 by DorsetIan |
Nobody is saying the decisions are easy, or that lockdowns don't have serious negative consequences.
And it is difficult when, whatever happened, there were always going to be deaths and economic damage, to imagine how it could ever have been good. But things could certainly have been better (deaths in Germany, for example, about 54,000).
And the fact remains that we are now over 100,000 deaths, we have been in two long lockdowns and we are borrowing over £25 billion every month to cover the economic costs. The facts do seem to speak for themselves in terms of how successful the government's approach has been and I personally think that much is down to the decisions Johnson has made. |
The deaths are a tragedy but who knows what the reasons are? Interestingly, other countries have recorded more infections, but less deaths. So once someone gets infected here, they are more likely to die here than in 10 different countries. Is it that they receive better treatment in those other countries? Not likely. Or are we more unhealthy? It is a fact that we are the 3rd most obese nation in the world. Could that be a factor? We are one of the most densely populated countries. I don't know but an investigation needs to be done before we say that the government's decisions only, have caused the huge death rate. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 12:26]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 12:26 - Jan 27 with 914 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 12:23 - Jan 27 by Saintsforeverj |
The deaths are a tragedy but who knows what the reasons are? Interestingly, other countries have recorded more infections, but less deaths. So once someone gets infected here, they are more likely to die here than in 10 different countries. Is it that they receive better treatment in those other countries? Not likely. Or are we more unhealthy? It is a fact that we are the 3rd most obese nation in the world. Could that be a factor? We are one of the most densely populated countries. I don't know but an investigation needs to be done before we say that the government's decisions only, have caused the huge death rate. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 12:26]
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Every country counts deaths differently, the UK includes anyone who has tested positive in the last few weeks, even if covid didn’t directly cause the death. | |
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