| The 20MPH punishments 08:34 - Aug 3 with 137473 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well the punishment for breaking the limit,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-confirm-how-punish-drivers-
Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness. |  | | |  |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:07 - Sep 23 with 1392 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| The 20MPH punishments on 08:44 - Sep 23 by Gwyn737 |
Labour voters criticising a Labour policy.
A healthy example of democracy.
Thank goodness (most) people are able to see past petty party loyalty and are willing to call things out for the sake of the greater good. |
Agree, it's time we get back to the issues, get into the impact of public policy decisions and examine the facts and options. Too many people throwing party political nonsense around.
Like with net zero we need to ' get the drains up' on issues and really understand what is happening and what is proposed.
In Wales the Heath Service desperately needs a fact based debate not a bunch of politicians throwing mud.
So driving at 20 what are the facts? What is the evidence base?
What is the impact on road injury and death?
Does it increase pollution?
How does it affect the business?
What are the overall economic effects?
How does it impact the NHS?
What are the underlying assumptions, are they valid? How do we test them?
Or we can sit saying Drakeford is an idiot and I hate the Tories, this approach gets us nowhere and actually serves inept politicians who benefit from the diversion from the real facts of what is happening in our country. |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 09:35 - Sep 23 with 1377 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:07 - Sep 23 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Agree, it's time we get back to the issues, get into the impact of public policy decisions and examine the facts and options. Too many people throwing party political nonsense around.
Like with net zero we need to ' get the drains up' on issues and really understand what is happening and what is proposed.
In Wales the Heath Service desperately needs a fact based debate not a bunch of politicians throwing mud.
So driving at 20 what are the facts? What is the evidence base?
What is the impact on road injury and death?
Does it increase pollution?
How does it affect the business?
What are the overall economic effects?
How does it impact the NHS?
What are the underlying assumptions, are they valid? How do we test them?
Or we can sit saying Drakeford is an idiot and I hate the Tories, this approach gets us nowhere and actually serves inept politicians who benefit from the diversion from the real facts of what is happening in our country. |
I agree the problems are deeper than the individual political parties and people who are staunchly defending their political alliance, although understandable, will not solve the problems.
We have Labour in running Wales and IMO are not doing a good enough job, yes over the years have done some decent things, but currently not doing what the Welsh people want. Some will say it was in the manifesto at the last election, many points were, but I think they have been interpreted differently to what was expected. The Senedd have gone for a radical approach and a more thought out softer approach would have been better.
In Westminster we have the Conservatives calling the shots who will be unelectable IMO. Far to many mistakes have been made and in general the standard they have set is far below what is acceptable for a government. Yes in recent times there have been problems never encountered before, but for every government there are new problems to be overcome, its just how you adapt to them. There will be some who have done very well out of this government, but surely they have a conscience, probably not.
So in short, stop being politically blind and devoted to your party, none are delivering as they should. Think long and hard how as individuals we can improve things. I did not vote at the last Senedd elections so yes I am partly to blame, but I can assure you I will be voting at the next, presently I'm hoping for no overall majority so that they have to work together, ideally a Senedd full of independants working for their constituency instead of following a party line. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:38 - Sep 23 with 1376 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 08:02 - Sep 23 by Whiterockin |
Mark Baker has a decision to make. He was asked by the Senedd if he wished to close the petition as it had reached the required 10,000 to have it considered for debate in the Senedd. Today it will reach 4000,000, 40 times the required amount. Does he close the petition today and let the media have a field day with the tagline, " petition closes with over 400, 000 signatures in less than 10 days". Or does he leave it run and hope to achieve more than the 443,047 vote that Labour received at the last Senedd elections and have the media tagline "petition receives more signatures than Labour at the last Senedd elections".
Deputy climate change minister Lee Waters, who has fronted the policy, is now facing a no confidence vote in the Senedd due to the size of the petition, that will take place on Wednesday. A question here is why a climate change minister was fronting the policy, it clearly is of no benefit to climate change. So is Lee Walters to be made a scapegoat and sacrificed to get the Senedd off the hook or will the Senedd close ranks and save him. If they try and brush this petition under the carpet the press Welsh and National will have a field day only adding petrol on the fire. This IMO will then have a knock on effect with a second petition calling for Westminster to discus holding a referendum on ending devolution in Wales. this petition is currently at 22,000 of the 100,000 required after only four days and is running until March.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/643987
For those who have not read the details this is the 20mph petition request.
We want the Welsh Government to rescind and remove the disastrous 20mph law
The new 20mph law is coming into force on the 17th September and it will mark the end of having socialism in power in Wales.
Welsh Government claim to have supporting evidence stating that reducing to 20mph EVERWHERE saves lives! Yet we get flyers merely claiming that it will, and opinions from doctors that see RTCs coming into A&E. This is NOT evidence. The only true evidence is from Belfast and it states it makes NO DIFFERENCE to RTCs!
At least one of the trial villages in Monmouthshire actually reverted their trial because it was causing absolute carnage on the roads! Mark Drakeford has come out claiming it is a success in St Brides Major but every time I go though there NO ONE is driving at 20mph.
The Welsh Government has FAILED to produce ANY convincing evidence to support these claims of safety. This law is being spearheaded by the WG Climate Change department and NOT Health & Safety!!
YOU HAVE NOT LISTENED TO US.
The Welsh Government was put there BY THE PEOPLE OF WALES, We are your boss! We demand that this foolish idea be stopped.
Interesting times ahead. [Post edited 23 Sep 2023 8:16]
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"it will mark the end of having socialism in power in Wales"
What is this line about? What has socialism got to do with the speed limit? | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:50 - Sep 23 with 1368 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:35 - Sep 23 by Whiterockin |
I agree the problems are deeper than the individual political parties and people who are staunchly defending their political alliance, although understandable, will not solve the problems.
We have Labour in running Wales and IMO are not doing a good enough job, yes over the years have done some decent things, but currently not doing what the Welsh people want. Some will say it was in the manifesto at the last election, many points were, but I think they have been interpreted differently to what was expected. The Senedd have gone for a radical approach and a more thought out softer approach would have been better.
In Westminster we have the Conservatives calling the shots who will be unelectable IMO. Far to many mistakes have been made and in general the standard they have set is far below what is acceptable for a government. Yes in recent times there have been problems never encountered before, but for every government there are new problems to be overcome, its just how you adapt to them. There will be some who have done very well out of this government, but surely they have a conscience, probably not.
So in short, stop being politically blind and devoted to your party, none are delivering as they should. Think long and hard how as individuals we can improve things. I did not vote at the last Senedd elections so yes I am partly to blame, but I can assure you I will be voting at the next, presently I'm hoping for no overall majority so that they have to work together, ideally a Senedd full of independants working for their constituency instead of following a party line. |
I wouldn't say you and people who didn't vote are partly to blame I'd say you are completely to blame.
Even more so than those with blind party loyalty.
The Senedd is a shambles, Welsh Labour is a shambles. We'll have had 26 years of them by the next election.
My only worry is what comes next. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:56 - Sep 23 with 1364 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:50 - Sep 23 by Scotia |
I wouldn't say you and people who didn't vote are partly to blame I'd say you are completely to blame.
Even more so than those with blind party loyalty.
The Senedd is a shambles, Welsh Labour is a shambles. We'll have had 26 years of them by the next election.
My only worry is what comes next. |
I belive that to fund the extra pigs in the trough in Cardiff they're now withdrawing the funding to support public transport in mid and west Wales, we certainly are a basket case of a nation | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 11:09 - Sep 23 with 1317 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well then, as has been suggested, have the Senedd mouthpieces have been lying to us. Look at this article in the WOL,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-town-trialled-20mph-speed-27
We've said it on here. The new limit could actually cause accidents, will have a huge economic impact with the extra fuel and servicing costs andcrucially, may not even save the money for the NHS that Drakeford has claimed. And it is only a claim because there was and is no way of knowing without evidence.
The petition is now close to 398,000. it'll break the 400k today for sure. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:55 - Sep 23 with 1287 views | Gwyn737 |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:07 - Sep 23 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Agree, it's time we get back to the issues, get into the impact of public policy decisions and examine the facts and options. Too many people throwing party political nonsense around.
Like with net zero we need to ' get the drains up' on issues and really understand what is happening and what is proposed.
In Wales the Heath Service desperately needs a fact based debate not a bunch of politicians throwing mud.
So driving at 20 what are the facts? What is the evidence base?
What is the impact on road injury and death?
Does it increase pollution?
How does it affect the business?
What are the overall economic effects?
How does it impact the NHS?
What are the underlying assumptions, are they valid? How do we test them?
Or we can sit saying Drakeford is an idiot and I hate the Tories, this approach gets us nowhere and actually serves inept politicians who benefit from the diversion from the real facts of what is happening in our country. |
Absolutely.
The same petty arguments come along for the nhs.
I’m not defending nhs wales at all but comparing it to England is apples and oranges. They’re demographically different. Holding England up as a success compared to wales is just political ideology.
Those with any sense know that both are in big trouble and in need of reform and time wasted on arguing who has biggest s*** sandwich is pointless. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:56 - Sep 23 with 1285 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:09 - Sep 23 by SullutaCreturned |
Well then, as has been suggested, have the Senedd mouthpieces have been lying to us. Look at this article in the WOL,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-town-trialled-20mph-speed-27
We've said it on here. The new limit could actually cause accidents, will have a huge economic impact with the extra fuel and servicing costs andcrucially, may not even save the money for the NHS that Drakeford has claimed. And it is only a claim because there was and is no way of knowing without evidence.
The petition is now close to 398,000. it'll break the 400k today for sure. |
It's hard to believe that some on here support a policy which is going to create a financial burden ,a nation this small can ill afford to lose billions of pounds which is strange considering the bleating that Westminister fails to provide financial support but are quite willing too see what monies we do have are being wasted . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 12:14 - Sep 23 with 1259 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:56 - Sep 23 by Boundy |
It's hard to believe that some on here support a policy which is going to create a financial burden ,a nation this small can ill afford to lose billions of pounds which is strange considering the bleating that Westminister fails to provide financial support but are quite willing too see what monies we do have are being wasted . |
It appears that the majority of people in Wales support the policy.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web& |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:19 - Sep 23 with 1239 views | lifelong |
Currently parked up in Cwm Level Road, it’s like a race track here, hardly anyone taking any notice of 20mph. Unless this law is enforced properly It does make you wonder whether this will turn out to be a pointless exercise. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:34 - Sep 23 with 1219 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:19 - Sep 23 by lifelong |
Currently parked up in Cwm Level Road, it’s like a race track here, hardly anyone taking any notice of 20mph. Unless this law is enforced properly It does make you wonder whether this will turn out to be a pointless exercise. |
Yes, if people don't believe in it they will ignore it which defeats the purpose, a thorough consultation would have been worth the effort. I have experienced stretches of road where they are going quite fast in 20s and others where people are doing 15 in 30 and 40 limits. The signage is part of the problem but sometimes the limits seem inappropriate so people ignore them. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 13:44 - Sep 23 with 1205 views | BarrySwan |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:55 - Sep 23 by Gwyn737 |
Absolutely.
The same petty arguments come along for the nhs.
I’m not defending nhs wales at all but comparing it to England is apples and oranges. They’re demographically different. Holding England up as a success compared to wales is just political ideology.
Those with any sense know that both are in big trouble and in need of reform and time wasted on arguing who has biggest s*** sandwich is pointless. |
I don't think that anyone is holding up the English NHS as a shining success.
But highlighting that the performance of the Welsh NHS under the control of the Labour Party is much much worse.
When a country with a population 17 to 18 times smaller than England actually has higher numbers of people on waiting lists for many procedures thats a disaster by anyones judgement surely? | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:50 - Sep 23 with 1200 views | BarrySwan |
I'm no great fan of this guy but his take on the polling company quoted by the parish council down the Bay in regards to overwhelming support for the 20 mph law is interesting reading.
This is the same polling company who have been coming up with ludicrously large numbers showing support for Welsh independence which we all know are complete and utter nonsense.
A lesson in how political opinion polls can be presented and framed to suit a particular viewpoint.
https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ [Post edited 23 Sep 2023 14:02]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 14:48 - Sep 23 with 1181 views | Gwyn737 |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:44 - Sep 23 by BarrySwan |
I don't think that anyone is holding up the English NHS as a shining success.
But highlighting that the performance of the Welsh NHS under the control of the Labour Party is much much worse.
When a country with a population 17 to 18 times smaller than England actually has higher numbers of people on waiting lists for many procedures thats a disaster by anyones judgement surely? |
I just don’t think they’re comparable.
Doesn’t mean I think the nhs in wales is doing a good job. I don’t. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:27 - Sep 23 with 1154 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:48 - Sep 23 by Gwyn737 |
I just don’t think they’re comparable.
Doesn’t mean I think the nhs in wales is doing a good job. I don’t. |
Wales per head of the population has twice as many people on its waiting lists as England. Think that is comparable. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 18:04 - Sep 23 with 1125 views | Gwyn737 |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:27 - Sep 23 by felixstowe_jack |
Wales per head of the population has twice as many people on its waiting lists as England. Think that is comparable. |
For a fair comparison you need to compare available resources, population stats such as age, rural/urban community comparisons.
The NHS in wales is awful in many measures.
You just can’t compare it to England.
Also I wouldn’t want to compare it to england as that’s a failing system too. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:19 - Sep 23 with 1119 views | SullutaCreturned |
Reading "jac o the North's" piece then, it appears this poll you quote was at the very least, not reliable and at the worst a complete lie made up to support the Senedd.
Now there's something the pro Senedd and pro labour people wont like, the suggestion that the Senedd have been deliberatley lying to us.
Don't worry guys, those gits in Westminster lie to us too. Thye're all politicians. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:48 - Sep 24 with 1031 views | felixstowe_jack |
Looks like we are having a de facto referendum on the 20mph despite the Senedd refusing to have a proper debate before imposing it.
To rescind the disastrous 20 mph law 411,854
To keep the excellent 20 mph law 1,387
Two other petitions.
Initiate an early Senedd Election 12,087
Oppose the Welsh Government "Senedd reform bill" published 18th September 2023 becoming law. 1,105 | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 14:29 - Sep 24 with 969 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:48 - Sep 24 by felixstowe_jack |
Looks like we are having a de facto referendum on the 20mph despite the Senedd refusing to have a proper debate before imposing it.
To rescind the disastrous 20 mph law 411,854
To keep the excellent 20 mph law 1,387
Two other petitions.
Initiate an early Senedd Election 12,087
Oppose the Welsh Government "Senedd reform bill" published 18th September 2023 becoming law. 1,105 |
Somebody saying on Twitter that he just used a post code of a Cardiff car park and a email address 10minutemail.com, he was thanked for his vote.😄 | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:32 - Sep 24 with 966 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:29 - Sep 24 by lifelong |
Somebody saying on Twitter that he just used a post code of a Cardiff car park and a email address 10minutemail.com, he was thanked for his vote.😄 |
Large crowds turning out in Cardiff to protest.
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| The 20MPH punishments on 14:43 - Sep 24 with 944 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:32 - Sep 24 by lifelong |
Large crowds turning out in Cardiff to protest.
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| The 20MPH punishments on 15:07 - Sep 24 with 925 views | Dr_Winston |
About an hour ago I was driving along Phoenix Way on the Enterprise Zone, stuck behind a car doing 18mph. The speed limit on Phoenix Way remains 30mph, because it's not residential.
If we siezed and scrapped cars owned by the kind of mouth breathing idiot who doesn't know the difference between shops and houses, we could reduce emissions significantly without touching speed limits at all. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 15:14 - Sep 24 with 903 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:43 - Sep 24 by lifelong |
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It's not unusual for the former Dep of Leader Enfield council to be economical with the truth while posting on twitter. | | | |
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