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Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness.
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The 20MPH punishments on 16:06 - Sep 20 with 1571 views
The 20MPH punishments on 14:33 - Sep 20 by Whiterockin
The petition is following the Senedds own rules and regulations, following the format put in place by the Senedd itself. This is not a petition with signatures collected outside the jurisdiction of the Senedd.
Here is a little clarity for you explaining the Senedd procedure.
Yes I know it's following the rules but petitions aren't to change the law. If successful it may put forward the motion for a debate and publish a report. That's it.
There are 60 members of the Senedd, 43 of them represnt a party that had 20mph speed limits in their manifesto. The manifesto that got them elected.
If they have a debate and vote on it what do you think will happen? 43 of them, will vote to keep the 20mph speed limit. That's not just a majority it's a super majority, and that vote has happened twice already.
We'll have a chance to get rid of it (and them) in May 2026, when I bet only around 50% of people will vote again.
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The 20MPH punishments on 16:07 - Sep 20 with 1566 views
Yes I know it's following the rules but petitions aren't to change the law. If successful it may put forward the motion for a debate and publish a report. That's it.
There are 60 members of the Senedd, 43 of them represnt a party that had 20mph speed limits in their manifesto. The manifesto that got them elected.
If they have a debate and vote on it what do you think will happen? 43 of them, will vote to keep the 20mph speed limit. That's not just a majority it's a super majority, and that vote has happened twice already.
We'll have a chance to get rid of it (and them) in May 2026, when I bet only around 50% of people will vote again.
I suggest you read the third point on the link I posted
Petitioning is one of the most direct ways to suggest how something could change. Petitions can:
Propose or influence a new law;
[Post edited 20 Sep 2023 16:11]
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The 20MPH punishments on 16:21 - Sep 20 with 1540 views
The Swiss have had a form of direct democracy for 100's of years though, we don't. We have representative democracy. They also have a history of democratic power sharing, we don't. In fact we very rarely have any form of power sharing, even when we do in Wales (Plaid/ Labour) their policies are pretty much the same.
As I said before - Brexit is a case in point. The Conservative party said they would hold a referendum in their election manifesto, they did and we know the result. There was a massive petition to overturn the result or hold another referendum and, quite rightly, it was ignored.
We had another general election and the referendum result was ratified.
Let's see what happens at the next Senedd elction.
Hmm, what if the number of people who sign this petition gets to be higher than the number who voted Labour?
444,000 is the magic number.
Re the Brexit petition, did more people vote on it than voted for Brexit?
As you say, we have a representative democracy and those in government are supposed to represent their constituents, if they are doing something they know to be against what their constituents want, how is that democracy? That has been the problem with the UK as a whole for far too long, our politicians do whatever the heck they please and then just lie to us about it.
I do wonder how many Labour voters actually looked at the manifesto before voting and how many bleated their way to the ballot box.
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The 20MPH punishments on 16:44 - Sep 20 with 1507 views
Hmm, what if the number of people who sign this petition gets to be higher than the number who voted Labour?
444,000 is the magic number.
Re the Brexit petition, did more people vote on it than voted for Brexit?
As you say, we have a representative democracy and those in government are supposed to represent their constituents, if they are doing something they know to be against what their constituents want, how is that democracy? That has been the problem with the UK as a whole for far too long, our politicians do whatever the heck they please and then just lie to us about it.
I do wonder how many Labour voters actually looked at the manifesto before voting and how many bleated their way to the ballot box.
What if this petition was about everything a political didn't do as part of their manifesto.
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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The 20MPH punishments on 16:51 - Sep 20 with 1506 views
Hmm, what if the number of people who sign this petition gets to be higher than the number who voted Labour?
444,000 is the magic number.
Re the Brexit petition, did more people vote on it than voted for Brexit?
As you say, we have a representative democracy and those in government are supposed to represent their constituents, if they are doing something they know to be against what their constituents want, how is that democracy? That has been the problem with the UK as a whole for far too long, our politicians do whatever the heck they please and then just lie to us about it.
I do wonder how many Labour voters actually looked at the manifesto before voting and how many bleated their way to the ballot box.
You'd have to include plaid too, as it was in their manifesto. The magic number is closer to 700,000. I don't think you discount those who didn't vote either. The Senedd won't because they had a choice.
They do represent their constituents, if you voted labour or plaid this is what you voted for. Of course, the other parties in Wales are so weak it makes no difference.
I don't think the petition numbers can be taken too seriously, it's been circulated in n every WhatsApp group I'm a member of and people can sign on every email address they have. I've got four.
The petition will be ignored until it's time to write the next election manifesto, and the parties will try to win votes then. Drakeford won't be in charge, that could be used as an excuse to drop it.
Your last paragraph is key, and is the crux of the problem. Voting gives you the power, but very few people use it correctly.
I just don't understand blind political party loyalty. This is the outcome.
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The 20MPH punishments on 17:37 - Sep 20 with 1470 views
You'd have to include plaid too, as it was in their manifesto. The magic number is closer to 700,000. I don't think you discount those who didn't vote either. The Senedd won't because they had a choice.
They do represent their constituents, if you voted labour or plaid this is what you voted for. Of course, the other parties in Wales are so weak it makes no difference.
I don't think the petition numbers can be taken too seriously, it's been circulated in n every WhatsApp group I'm a member of and people can sign on every email address they have. I've got four.
The petition will be ignored until it's time to write the next election manifesto, and the parties will try to win votes then. Drakeford won't be in charge, that could be used as an excuse to drop it.
Your last paragraph is key, and is the crux of the problem. Voting gives you the power, but very few people use it correctly.
I just don't understand blind political party loyalty. This is the outcome.
Hang on, include Plaid, they came thrd, they didn't get a mandate for anything.
Who voted Labour so Plaid could get a say?
Manifesto, as was said earlier, no one agrees with everything.
Of course the petitin will be ignored, as is everything the people want but the politicians don't.
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The 20MPH punishments on 18:57 - Sep 20 with 1331 views
"Blues and two's" emergency response time delays, increased carcinogenic chemical pollutants, costs and road rage etc aside....Another thing I ponder?
If a frustrated driver is slowed down by 20mph signs and is pushed for time because of traffic bottlenecks that have impacted his/her appointment/diary schedule to get from A to B on time?
Could that end up with frustrated drivers who will then speed up beyond their normal law abiding behavioural comfort zone(s) elsewhere, when inside or outside of 20mph zones to make up for all that lost time? Leading to dangerous speeds happening elsewhere?
Road safety and public health? Mmmmmmmmm.
Argus!
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The 20MPH punishments on 20:27 - Sep 20 with 1247 views
The 20MPH punishments on 20:06 - Sep 20 by Wingstandwood
"Blues and two's" emergency response time delays, increased carcinogenic chemical pollutants, costs and road rage etc aside....Another thing I ponder?
If a frustrated driver is slowed down by 20mph signs and is pushed for time because of traffic bottlenecks that have impacted his/her appointment/diary schedule to get from A to B on time?
Could that end up with frustrated drivers who will then speed up beyond their normal law abiding behavioural comfort zone(s) elsewhere, when inside or outside of 20mph zones to make up for all that lost time? Leading to dangerous speeds happening elsewhere?
Road safety and public health? Mmmmmmmmm.
Then again …..
The World Health Organisation states that the most effective way to improve pedestrian safety is to reduce the speed of vehicles.
In 2022, police force figures indicate that 51% of collisions happened on 30mph roads.
A Transport for London report shows that since 20mph limits were introduced on key roads in London in 2020:
the number of overall collisions reduced by 25% collisions involving vulnerable road users decreased by 36% collisions involving people walking decreased by 63% collisions resulting in death or serious injury reduced by 25%. By reducing the default speed, it will make it easier for drivers to stop in time to prevent collisions.
In the distance a 20mph car can stop, a 30mph car will still be doing 24mph.
A person is around five times more likely to be killed when hit by a vehicle travelling at around 30mph than they are from a vehicle travelling around 20mph.
Beware of the Risen People
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The 20MPH punishments on 20:46 - Sep 20 with 1206 views
The 20MPH punishments on 20:28 - Sep 20 by Kilkennyjack
Then again …..
The World Health Organisation states that the most effective way to improve pedestrian safety is to reduce the speed of vehicles.
In 2022, police force figures indicate that 51% of collisions happened on 30mph roads.
A Transport for London report shows that since 20mph limits were introduced on key roads in London in 2020:
the number of overall collisions reduced by 25% collisions involving vulnerable road users decreased by 36% collisions involving people walking decreased by 63% collisions resulting in death or serious injury reduced by 25%. By reducing the default speed, it will make it easier for drivers to stop in time to prevent collisions.
In the distance a 20mph car can stop, a 30mph car will still be doing 24mph.
A person is around five times more likely to be killed when hit by a vehicle travelling at around 30mph than they are from a vehicle travelling around 20mph.
Most people think the principle is fine. The execution has been crap. There were two sections of road I used yesterday. Identical in terms of housing one side of the road and fields the other side. One section is 20 and one 30. The 30 one includes a playing field! It's poor execution that is pissing people off. Another road had a mix of 20 and 30 signs that were totally confusing.
The 20MPH punishments on 20:28 - Sep 20 by Kilkennyjack
Then again …..
The World Health Organisation states that the most effective way to improve pedestrian safety is to reduce the speed of vehicles.
In 2022, police force figures indicate that 51% of collisions happened on 30mph roads.
A Transport for London report shows that since 20mph limits were introduced on key roads in London in 2020:
the number of overall collisions reduced by 25% collisions involving vulnerable road users decreased by 36% collisions involving people walking decreased by 63% collisions resulting in death or serious injury reduced by 25%. By reducing the default speed, it will make it easier for drivers to stop in time to prevent collisions.
In the distance a 20mph car can stop, a 30mph car will still be doing 24mph.
A person is around five times more likely to be killed when hit by a vehicle travelling at around 30mph than they are from a vehicle travelling around 20mph.
Note the phrase "key roads". I don't think anyone is against 20mph on key roads. It's just that this hasn't been applied in Wales.
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The 20MPH punishments on 20:54 - Sep 20 with 1191 views
The 20MPH punishments on 21:04 - Sep 20 by Gwyn737
I don’t disagree with you.
I’m naturally suspicious of both polls and petitions.
This is my favourite clip on the subject 🤣
That was a brilliant series, because it made people think/aware that things truly happen like that behind closed doors.
I was too young at the time to 'get-it', my mind and life experiences were not up to scratch.
Along with some stuff from Monty Python, that sort of says to me years later with certain sketches that some of the most thickest people are those that are presumed to be the most intelligent.
An incident my father used to recall was a situation where a guy that was meant to be reprimanded
(Educated old school disciplinarian) "Well aren't you going to take your helmet off?"....(Total opposite of) "I've come for a b0llocking not an haircut". That was the longest ten minutes of my fathers life, because it was excruciating not to laugh.
Argus!
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The 20MPH punishments on 21:52 - Sep 20 with 1121 views
The 20MPH punishments on 20:28 - Sep 20 by Kilkennyjack
Then again …..
The World Health Organisation states that the most effective way to improve pedestrian safety is to reduce the speed of vehicles.
In 2022, police force figures indicate that 51% of collisions happened on 30mph roads.
A Transport for London report shows that since 20mph limits were introduced on key roads in London in 2020:
the number of overall collisions reduced by 25% collisions involving vulnerable road users decreased by 36% collisions involving people walking decreased by 63% collisions resulting in death or serious injury reduced by 25%. By reducing the default speed, it will make it easier for drivers to stop in time to prevent collisions.
In the distance a 20mph car can stop, a 30mph car will still be doing 24mph.
A person is around five times more likely to be killed when hit by a vehicle travelling at around 30mph than they are from a vehicle travelling around 20mph.
I wouldn’t argue with the thrust of many of the points you make, but stats can be manipulated to suit an argument. Let’s consider the point about 51% of collisions on taking place on 30mph roads. In reality, the 30mph roads are where the bulk of the population reside, where most people can be found on a day to day basis and where the bulk of traffic is found.
A family member was involved in a collision with a pedestrian a few years ago. Said family member was traveling around 20 -25 mph in a 30 zone when a kid on a phone who was oblivious to their surroundings stepped off the pavement out in to the road in front of the car. Child was thrown in the air and along the side of the car. Fortunately, the injuries were superficial and the child made a full recovery, car received about £3ks worth of damage (which is not important but I’ve mentioned it to give people some context.) I’ve also had the misfortune to lose a loved one as a result of a car “accident.” I fully understand there are benefits to reducing the speed limit, but I believe that the reductions should be targeted and not as a result of a blanket policy.
Comparing large cities is reasonable, but comparing London with rural towns and villages such as Llandeilo, Pontyates, Reynoldston or Cwmgrach etc is like comparing apples and pears. I’ve no issues with 20mph in the right places, but not as a blanket policy
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