| The 20MPH punishments 08:34 - Aug 3 with 137471 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well the punishment for breaking the limit,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-confirm-how-punish-drivers-
Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness. |  | | |  |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:32 - Sep 19 with 1589 views | builthjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:38 - Sep 19 by Flashberryjack |
Who the heck has 14 email addresses ? |
Duffle |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:33 - Sep 19 with 1586 views | builthjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 12:13 - Sep 19 by lifelong |
In July of this year a speed camera was installed on Western Avenue, Cardiff, which is a 30mph built up area. Within a week 4,200 motorists we caught speeding. There’s 4200 votes for the petition straight off. |
They need to slow down a bit. | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:39 - Sep 19 with 1565 views | Flashberryjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:32 - Sep 19 by builthjack |
Duffle |
Coat |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:43 - Sep 19 with 1554 views | Wingstandwood |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:27 - Sep 19 by SullutaCreturned |
My works fan is tracked, if I break speed limits they have a word, I wont get any chances.
There are queues behind me on most 20mph roads. People overtake me when I'm doing 20 and hurtly away, this silly law could actually cause more accidents because drivers may just have been pushed too far.
Driing at 20, it seems like the Sened has reeuced Wales to a permanent funeral procession. |
Good point that, there will be a lot of frustration that will lead to heat of the moment impulsiveness because of people snapping after losing patience , that'll lead to people overtaking in riskier circumstances especially if in a rush on a tight time schedule. |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 22:46 - Sep 19 with 1448 views | BarrySwan |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:30 - Sep 19 by Scotia |
Because so far fewer people have signed a petition to abolish the policy than voted for it to be implemented. About 75% fewer.
Before you consider that 50% of the population couldn't be arsed to vote for it or against it. Drakeford has a mandate to implement it.
It's a stupid policy and Drakeford is an idiot but this is the democratic system we've got at the moment. Fools voting based on family history and tradition, or not voting at all because it "won't make any difference" and then signing petitions when it obviously does.
If those who signed the petition wrote to Keir Starmer and said Labour wouldn't get their vote in the next general election if it continued, then there'd be a better chance of seeing change. |
I'd be surprised that voters vote in favour of every single tucked away clause and policy in a party's manifesto. [Post edited 19 Sep 2023 22:50]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 23:21 - Sep 19 with 1418 views | ModeratorD |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:19 - Sep 19 by Whiterockin |
Die hard labour supporters will deny it, but this is going to shake up Welsh politics. The Senedd are between a rock and a hard place. Take any sort if action and they lose face, ignore it and they are doomed. |
Agree it is hard for them to reverse it, but it will be harder for them when voted out of office ... | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 06:42 - Sep 20 with 1371 views | Whiterockin |
And there was me saying yesterday leave the poll open for a week and possibly it will pass a quarter of a million. We'll it did that overnight. Many people I talk to say they have signed as a protest to the way the Senedd are doing things. If they fail to react hopefully there is enough momentum in this to make people think come the next election. There are enough sheep in Wales there is no need for the population to vote like one. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 06:45 - Sep 20 with 1360 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:46 - Sep 19 by BarrySwan |
I'd be surprised that voters vote in favour of every single tucked away clause and policy in a party's manifesto. [Post edited 19 Sep 2023 22:50]
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It wasn't tucked away anywhere. It was a blatant and individual point.
Do voters vote for every point? No of course they don't, but that is what Labour and Plaid were elected on.
I'm not in favour of it ( or Drakeford or Plaid) but the Senedd election result cannot be undermined by an online petition. It makes a mockery of the democratic process.
Similar to Brexit, I was not a fan of the exit deal that was negotiated but a referendum and general election supported it. That's it until the next election. | | | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 06:51 - Sep 20 with 1359 views | felixstowe_jack |
252,000 have now signed the petition. That is over 110,000 in the last 24 hours.
Everytime the Senedd wheels out a minister to try justify it even more people sign it.
Drakeford's expert analysis yesterday "It is as important as the introduction of seat belts and breathalyser to road safety"
He did not actually produce any evidence or research to back his absurd claim. The man is truly deluded. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 06:57 - Sep 20 with 1348 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 06:51 - Sep 20 by felixstowe_jack |
252,000 have now signed the petition. That is over 110,000 in the last 24 hours.
Everytime the Senedd wheels out a minister to try justify it even more people sign it.
Drakeford's expert analysis yesterday "It is as important as the introduction of seat belts and breathalyser to road safety"
He did not actually produce any evidence or research to back his absurd claim. The man is truly deluded. |
And clearly the Welsh public can see it. They need to take action and do it today. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 08:19 - Sep 20 with 1299 views | controversial_jack |
Nothing wrong with the fire service becoming road safety experts , who better? We all had to cross train in my job. They should try working in the private sector | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:31 - Sep 20 with 1263 views | AnotherJohn |
| The 20MPH punishments on 06:45 - Sep 20 by Scotia |
It wasn't tucked away anywhere. It was a blatant and individual point.
Do voters vote for every point? No of course they don't, but that is what Labour and Plaid were elected on.
I'm not in favour of it ( or Drakeford or Plaid) but the Senedd election result cannot be undermined by an online petition. It makes a mockery of the democratic process.
Similar to Brexit, I was not a fan of the exit deal that was negotiated but a referendum and general election supported it. That's it until the next election. |
Will some call for a referendum? Could it be argued that this is a way of disentangling the degree of support for a particular change from support for the wider policy stance of a political party? | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:08 - Sep 20 with 1239 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:31 - Sep 20 by AnotherJohn |
Will some call for a referendum? Could it be argued that this is a way of disentangling the degree of support for a particular change from support for the wider policy stance of a political party? |
Where would it stop though? A referendum on every point in a manifesto? Then a petition and a referendum on the result of the referendum? If that was the case nothing would get done and democracy would be completely undermined.
We had a referendum / election on this point two years ago - over 700,000 people voted for it and over a million weren't bothered either way. The petition has to gain 1.4 million more (genuine) signatures to reach that point.
What kind of precedent would cowing down to this petition set?
It's become law, I don't like it. I'll vote for the most reasonable party in two and a half years who state they'll remove it, or even would have a referendum on removing it. Many will moan about it, sign petitions but still vote for Labour or Plaid.
The bottom line is the political system needs to change and people need to pull their heads out of the sand and vote. If you didn't vote or voted Labour or Plaid this is down to you.
One thing I would say fro the new bill to increase the number of MS's is the it moves to version of proportional representation and away from first past the post. Every vote will count, make sure you use it. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:18 - Sep 20 with 1226 views | BarrySwan |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:08 - Sep 20 by Scotia |
Where would it stop though? A referendum on every point in a manifesto? Then a petition and a referendum on the result of the referendum? If that was the case nothing would get done and democracy would be completely undermined.
We had a referendum / election on this point two years ago - over 700,000 people voted for it and over a million weren't bothered either way. The petition has to gain 1.4 million more (genuine) signatures to reach that point.
What kind of precedent would cowing down to this petition set?
It's become law, I don't like it. I'll vote for the most reasonable party in two and a half years who state they'll remove it, or even would have a referendum on removing it. Many will moan about it, sign petitions but still vote for Labour or Plaid.
The bottom line is the political system needs to change and people need to pull their heads out of the sand and vote. If you didn't vote or voted Labour or Plaid this is down to you.
One thing I would say fro the new bill to increase the number of MS's is the it moves to version of proportional representation and away from first past the post. Every vote will count, make sure you use it. |
The Swiss manage regular referendums on policy with no problems, giving their population a chance to put the brakes on the excesses of their politicians.
Lets not forget that we had wall to wall "the British people support membership of the EU and we've got the opinion polls to back it up".
Until of course the public were allowed their say at the ballot box. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:28 - Sep 20 with 1204 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:18 - Sep 20 by BarrySwan |
The Swiss manage regular referendums on policy with no problems, giving their population a chance to put the brakes on the excesses of their politicians.
Lets not forget that we had wall to wall "the British people support membership of the EU and we've got the opinion polls to back it up".
Until of course the public were allowed their say at the ballot box. |
The Swiss have had a form of direct democracy for 100's of years though, we don't. We have representative democracy. They also have a history of democratic power sharing, we don't. In fact we very rarely have any form of power sharing, even when we do in Wales (Plaid/ Labour) their policies are pretty much the same.
As I said before - Brexit is a case in point. The Conservative party said they would hold a referendum in their election manifesto, they did and we know the result. There was a massive petition to overturn the result or hold another referendum and, quite rightly, it was ignored.
We had another general election and the referendum result was ratified.
Let's see what happens at the next Senedd elction. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:40 - Sep 20 with 1193 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:28 - Sep 20 by Scotia |
The Swiss have had a form of direct democracy for 100's of years though, we don't. We have representative democracy. They also have a history of democratic power sharing, we don't. In fact we very rarely have any form of power sharing, even when we do in Wales (Plaid/ Labour) their policies are pretty much the same.
As I said before - Brexit is a case in point. The Conservative party said they would hold a referendum in their election manifesto, they did and we know the result. There was a massive petition to overturn the result or hold another referendum and, quite rightly, it was ignored.
We had another general election and the referendum result was ratified.
Let's see what happens at the next Senedd elction. |
Not sure the economy can withstand the damage to the economy inflicted by the disastrous 20mph law
It has already put up business cost, everyone's extra fuel cost and tourism will take a huge hit. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 10:55 - Sep 20 with 1185 views | Wingstandwood |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:40 - Sep 20 by felixstowe_jack |
Not sure the economy can withstand the damage to the economy inflicted by the disastrous 20mph law
It has already put up business cost, everyone's extra fuel cost and tourism will take a huge hit. |
Said many times before that since devolution has started there has been a deliberate project going on to turn Wales into a backward poverty stricken nation. The league tables, the roads, the economy, the wages and the depravation etc.
The yokels in Cardiff Bay are sabotaging not improving or (not unless white elephants in Cardiff Bay) building e.g. the refusal to provide a relief road (or alternative) and 20 mph limit really rams that home. It's a blatant "Keep em poor, keep em voting for us" strategy. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 11:14 - Sep 20 with 1181 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:28 - Sep 20 by Scotia |
The Swiss have had a form of direct democracy for 100's of years though, we don't. We have representative democracy. They also have a history of democratic power sharing, we don't. In fact we very rarely have any form of power sharing, even when we do in Wales (Plaid/ Labour) their policies are pretty much the same.
As I said before - Brexit is a case in point. The Conservative party said they would hold a referendum in their election manifesto, they did and we know the result. There was a massive petition to overturn the result or hold another referendum and, quite rightly, it was ignored.
We had another general election and the referendum result was ratified.
Let's see what happens at the next Senedd elction. |
Not sure the economy can withstand the damage to the economy inflicted by the disastrous 20mph law
It has already put up business cost, everyone's extra fuel cost and tourism will take a huge hit. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 12:16 - Sep 20 with 1128 views | felixstowe_jack |
The Welsh Government were so desperate that they asked the petition creator to close it after only three days. That way the number of signatures would be less than 200,000 rather than the 500,000 to a 1,000,000 when the petition is due to close in March | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 12:54 - Sep 20 with 1111 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:40 - Sep 20 by felixstowe_jack |
Not sure the economy can withstand the damage to the economy inflicted by the disastrous 20mph law
It has already put up business cost, everyone's extra fuel cost and tourism will take a huge hit. |
Does this mean that the likes of London, Manchester, Newcastle, Bristol, Birmingham and Liverpool will take a huge hit on Tourism. Also with Manchester introducing a tourist tax earlier this year they should be expecting a double hit.? |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:27 - Sep 20 with 1097 views | BarrySwan |
| The 20MPH punishments on 06:45 - Sep 20 by Scotia |
It wasn't tucked away anywhere. It was a blatant and individual point.
Do voters vote for every point? No of course they don't, but that is what Labour and Plaid were elected on.
I'm not in favour of it ( or Drakeford or Plaid) but the Senedd election result cannot be undermined by an online petition. It makes a mockery of the democratic process.
Similar to Brexit, I was not a fan of the exit deal that was negotiated but a referendum and general election supported it. That's it until the next election. |
Do voters vote for every point? No of course they don't
Well you've just answered your own point haven't you?
Which is exactly the point that I was making.
If a political party issue a 10 point manifesto and you agree with 7 of the policies and vote for them over a party that you agree with hardly any of their policies that doesn't mean that you agree with or wish to see the other 3 passed into law. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:50 - Sep 20 with 1073 views | Whiterockin |
Some statistics in here for those who think the numbers are inflated by English tory voters.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/what-happens-next-record-breaking-27
At the point where the petition's total signatures was 265,606 (at 9.50am on September 20), 96% of them were by people in Wales (255,335), 9.464 were from England, 394 from Scotland, 52 in Northern Ireland. [Post edited 20 Sep 2023 13:53]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 14:12 - Sep 20 with 1037 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:27 - Sep 20 by BarrySwan |
Do voters vote for every point? No of course they don't
Well you've just answered your own point haven't you?
Which is exactly the point that I was making.
If a political party issue a 10 point manifesto and you agree with 7 of the policies and vote for them over a party that you agree with hardly any of their policies that doesn't mean that you agree with or wish to see the other 3 passed into law. |
No but they were elected on the entire manifesto. That forms their mandate to govern. If you don't like one of the major points of the manifesto you shouldn't have voted for them or voted for someone else.
It's clear that there is a significant strength of feeling regarding the 20 mph speed limit. That should decide who gets your vote. If it is a point you aren't really bothered about then vote for them even if you disagree with that point if other points are more important to you.
I am one of the 50% who voted at the last senedd election and not one of the more than 700,000 who voted for Plaid or Labour. Both of whom had the 20 mph as a clear and unambiguous point in their manifesto. We can't have referendums over each point to be implemented, it undermines the process, and has already been voted on.
As I've said its the system that is flawed and has been for centuries. But it is the system we have. We need compulsory voting and PR. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:33 - Sep 20 with 1007 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:12 - Sep 20 by Scotia |
No but they were elected on the entire manifesto. That forms their mandate to govern. If you don't like one of the major points of the manifesto you shouldn't have voted for them or voted for someone else.
It's clear that there is a significant strength of feeling regarding the 20 mph speed limit. That should decide who gets your vote. If it is a point you aren't really bothered about then vote for them even if you disagree with that point if other points are more important to you.
I am one of the 50% who voted at the last senedd election and not one of the more than 700,000 who voted for Plaid or Labour. Both of whom had the 20 mph as a clear and unambiguous point in their manifesto. We can't have referendums over each point to be implemented, it undermines the process, and has already been voted on.
As I've said its the system that is flawed and has been for centuries. But it is the system we have. We need compulsory voting and PR. |
The petition is following the Senedds own rules and regulations, following the format put in place by the Senedd itself. This is not a petition with signatures collected outside the jurisdiction of the Senedd.
Here is a little clarity for you explaining the Senedd procedure.
https://petitions.senedd.wales/help | | | |
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