| Ainsworth 17:14 - Sep 30 with 129116 views | Gloucs_R |
Needs to be a discussion had.....
The squad we've got are not bottom 3.
We're getting tactically outmanoeuvred at home almost every time we play.
It's not a lack of experience in the team anymore. A lack of firepower, possibly, but we should be better than this.
Edit, perhaps I should have said our starting xi are not bottom 3. I agree, the overall squad is poor. [Post edited 30 Sep 2023 17:29]
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| Ainsworth on 00:22 - Oct 23 with 2119 views | CateLeBonR |
| Ainsworth on 22:21 - Oct 22 by PunteR |
They've never worked with him before. |
Amit Bhatia has. |  | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:04 - Oct 23 with 1741 views | daveB |
| Ainsworth on 22:04 - Oct 22 by Northernr |
Because Critchley was the last vestige of the previous plan to develop players and sell them on, appoint progressive coaches who played nice football and improved younger players - a development club.
Amit and co pulled the plug, took the keys off them, made exactly the sort of crowd pleasing populist appointment they always go for, even thought it's a complete stylistic opposite to what was there before, and now we have this.
Even if they could afford to sack him FFP wise, which I'm not sure they can, with no DOF their ideas probably stretch as far as "would Neil come back?" (and Amit will definitely have already had that conversation with him, so if he's said no or demanded more than we can give then that's one reason they can't twist) or "would the fans accept a Mick Beale return?" (because he's desperate, we're desperate, and they at least know his fcking phone number). |
Thats the big problem with Warnock in how much he will cost, he knows his worth and does not come cheap |  | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:05 - Oct 23 with 1732 views | Northernr |
| Ainsworth on 10:04 - Oct 23 by daveB |
Thats the big problem with Warnock in how much he will cost, he knows his worth and does not come cheap |
Well the money is the reason I think we haven't pushed the button yet full stop. |  | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:09 - Oct 23 with 1697 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Ainsworth on 09:49 - Oct 23 by TheChef |
I agree in so much as he's staying for now (a combination of financial reasons, and him being Amit's man).
But with each passing defeat sadly I'm less convinced he can turn this around.
Of course if the long term strategy is relegation to League One because he is the man to get us back up - then, er, brilliant.  |
To be clear, I don’t think he can turn it around either.
I also think no one else can. The problem is terminal. |  | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:18 - Oct 23 with 1617 views | daveB |
| Ainsworth on 10:09 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
To be clear, I don’t think he can turn it around either.
I also think no one else can. The problem is terminal. |
I don't buy no one can turn this around.
We can be better at set pieces, attacking patterns of play, defensive shape and so much more. Huddersfield are piss poor but have had 2 good managers recently who have got more out of them and kept them safe | | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:19 - Oct 23 with 1610 views | daveB |
| Ainsworth on 10:05 - Oct 23 by Northernr |
Well the money is the reason I think we haven't pushed the button yet full stop. |
I'm sure you are right but that is mental that we have worked ourselves into such a hole. | | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:28 - Oct 23 with 1551 views | TheChef |
| Ainsworth on 10:18 - Oct 23 by daveB |
I don't buy no one can turn this around.
We can be better at set pieces, attacking patterns of play, defensive shape and so much more. Huddersfield are piss poor but have had 2 good managers recently who have got more out of them and kept them safe |
I agree I don't think the players are quite that terrible (I mean OK bottom half for sure but not necessarily bottom three).
Someone else could get more out of them. |  |
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| Ainsworth on 10:30 - Oct 23 with 1547 views | PhilmyRs |
| Ainsworth on 10:09 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
To be clear, I don’t think he can turn it around either.
I also think no one else can. The problem is terminal. |
Fairly defeatist attitude but going on what we've seen so far, can't really grumble too much with it. However, the "no one else" can save us line, I think has grown in support directly because of the mess created by the current Manager. We weren't "unsaveable" before a ball had been kicked this season. We've moved in that direction because of the poor work undertaken by the current Manager. He was a mistake from the outset, and by allowing his style, philosophy, and recruitment to take shape, it's playing out exactly as I, and many others, feared it would. This isn't hindsight talking.
We had a very limited budget at the start of the season, and by not dipping into it to sign one attacking player other than Smyth was nonsensical. To pick some of the teams he has, to make some of the in-game substitutions (or lack of) that he's done, to make it so easy for teams to carve us open in games, to not value possession of a football, to not be able to get anything from Chris Willock...another Manager wouldn't have been so limited in these "key" footballing decisions.
It may be that we're moving into the "too late" to save us category now, although I still think there's hope, but GA is a major factor in how we've ended up being here. |  | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:38 - Oct 23 with 1494 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Ainsworth on 10:30 - Oct 23 by PhilmyRs |
Fairly defeatist attitude but going on what we've seen so far, can't really grumble too much with it. However, the "no one else" can save us line, I think has grown in support directly because of the mess created by the current Manager. We weren't "unsaveable" before a ball had been kicked this season. We've moved in that direction because of the poor work undertaken by the current Manager. He was a mistake from the outset, and by allowing his style, philosophy, and recruitment to take shape, it's playing out exactly as I, and many others, feared it would. This isn't hindsight talking.
We had a very limited budget at the start of the season, and by not dipping into it to sign one attacking player other than Smyth was nonsensical. To pick some of the teams he has, to make some of the in-game substitutions (or lack of) that he's done, to make it so easy for teams to carve us open in games, to not value possession of a football, to not be able to get anything from Chris Willock...another Manager wouldn't have been so limited in these "key" footballing decisions.
It may be that we're moving into the "too late" to save us category now, although I still think there's hope, but GA is a major factor in how we've ended up being here. |
Ainsworth is no more a factor than Critchley, Warburton, or any other custodian since Warnock.
It’s statistically improbable that 10 consecutive managers are all terrible.
Ainsworth is just todays man. [Post edited 23 Oct 2023 10:42]
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| Ainsworth on 10:46 - Oct 23 with 1443 views | daveB |
| Ainsworth on 10:38 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Ainsworth is no more a factor than Critchley, Warburton, or any other custodian since Warnock.
It’s statistically improbable that 10 consecutive managers are all terrible.
Ainsworth is just todays man. [Post edited 23 Oct 2023 10:42]
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They weren't all terrible.
If you go with the ones since Redknapp you had Ramsey and JFH who did Ok but had more money to play with and wasted a good chance to get back up
Holloway did the job he was asked to do pretty well, similar circumstances to Ainsworth, wasn't pretty but did OK
McClaren was a stupid idea which cost us some very good platers
Warbs did a very good job, Beale was alright as well really but hard to know how that would have gone if he stayed, not sure he's have lasted the season
I completely agree there are big problems further up the chain but we shouldn't be cut adrift at the bottom before the Christmas lights come on | | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:46 - Oct 23 with 1436 views | TheChef |
| Ainsworth on 10:38 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Ainsworth is no more a factor than Critchley, Warburton, or any other custodian since Warnock.
It’s statistically improbable that 10 consecutive managers are all terrible.
Ainsworth is just todays man. [Post edited 23 Oct 2023 10:42]
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Well yes that is true.
And I think the players are complicit in this too - not willing to put a shift in/follow instructions until they find a manager they like. | |
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| Ainsworth on 10:47 - Oct 23 with 1428 views | Rangersw12 |
| Ainsworth on 10:38 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Ainsworth is no more a factor than Critchley, Warburton, or any other custodian since Warnock.
It’s statistically improbable that 10 consecutive managers are all terrible.
Ainsworth is just todays man. [Post edited 23 Oct 2023 10:42]
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Ainsworth is a massive factor in how things have panned out he sets the team up worse than my lads under 15 team | | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:49 - Oct 23 with 1420 views | Hoopsie |
We played 12 games, not with 12 games left, in the season
Still salvageable
The players haven’t down tools, but you could feel their frustration brewing
We actually had over 60% possession, had a couple of chances to equalise, but if GA thought these nearly misses are transformational, he’s gravely mistaken. If there were some game plan we could have done more.
Perhaps our mini revival after the trashing at Watford was really about the players rather than a lightbulb moment from the manager. But this couldn’t be sustained if the manager continued to be clueless and out of his depth |  |
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| Ainsworth on 10:49 - Oct 23 with 1417 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Ainsworth on 10:46 - Oct 23 by daveB |
They weren't all terrible.
If you go with the ones since Redknapp you had Ramsey and JFH who did Ok but had more money to play with and wasted a good chance to get back up
Holloway did the job he was asked to do pretty well, similar circumstances to Ainsworth, wasn't pretty but did OK
McClaren was a stupid idea which cost us some very good platers
Warbs did a very good job, Beale was alright as well really but hard to know how that would have gone if he stayed, not sure he's have lasted the season
I completely agree there are big problems further up the chain but we shouldn't be cut adrift at the bottom before the Christmas lights come on |
That’s my point, they weren’t all terrible.
Ainsworth is a good manager. JFH had some success at a club much smaller than ours. McClaren: Eredivisie winner and European Cup finalist.
These are all good managers appointed in good faith that we have turned bad.
It’s not the manager. | | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:52 - Oct 23 with 1399 views | PhilmyRs |
| Ainsworth on 10:38 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Ainsworth is no more a factor than Critchley, Warburton, or any other custodian since Warnock.
It’s statistically improbable that 10 consecutive managers are all terrible.
Ainsworth is just todays man. [Post edited 23 Oct 2023 10:42]
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Of course he is. He is the polar opposite of the Managers you list in terms of style and tactical knowledge.
Warbs, did a decent job, Beale was in the play-offs when he left, Critchley I'd argue got the worst hand of the lot but we were still comfortably free of relegation when he left. GA stands head and shoulders above all of them for inept tactical Management and turgid performances on the pitch.
We're getting cut adrift at the bottom of the Championship mate, I was never concerned about that under any of the previous Managers so that argument of "Ainsworth being no more a factor" doesn't wash with me. There is so much more wrong with the club, fully agree, but the Manager is also a major problem, and it was a serious mistake in appointing him in the first place. | | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:52 - Oct 23 with 1398 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Ainsworth on 10:47 - Oct 23 by Rangersw12 |
Ainsworth is a massive factor in how things have panned out he sets the team up worse than my lads under 15 team |
Sorry mate, that’s just hyperbole. | | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:55 - Oct 23 with 1360 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Ainsworth on 10:52 - Oct 23 by PhilmyRs |
Of course he is. He is the polar opposite of the Managers you list in terms of style and tactical knowledge.
Warbs, did a decent job, Beale was in the play-offs when he left, Critchley I'd argue got the worst hand of the lot but we were still comfortably free of relegation when he left. GA stands head and shoulders above all of them for inept tactical Management and turgid performances on the pitch.
We're getting cut adrift at the bottom of the Championship mate, I was never concerned about that under any of the previous Managers so that argument of "Ainsworth being no more a factor" doesn't wash with me. There is so much more wrong with the club, fully agree, but the Manager is also a major problem, and it was a serious mistake in appointing him in the first place. |
How many games did Warbs win in his last year here? Do we need to dig up what people were saying about him in April? Plenty calling for his head.
We need to stop looking at the club manager by manager or result by result. We aren’t where we are now because Ainsworth put Adomah at RB or because Kakay takes ropey throw in, although I agree that it doesn’t help.
It’s a long term culture of chaos and inconsistency that is why we are where we are. | | | |
| Ainsworth on 10:58 - Oct 23 with 1350 views | PhilmyRs |
| Ainsworth on 10:49 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
That’s my point, they weren’t all terrible.
Ainsworth is a good manager. JFH had some success at a club much smaller than ours. McClaren: Eredivisie winner and European Cup finalist.
These are all good managers appointed in good faith that we have turned bad.
It’s not the manager. |
I think the point being, we're arguing other Managers did an ok job but GA is doing a very poor job. You seem to be implying all Managers have been equally as poor as GA which just isn't true. | | | |
| Ainsworth on 11:05 - Oct 23 with 1308 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Ainsworth on 10:58 - Oct 23 by PhilmyRs |
I think the point being, we're arguing other Managers did an ok job but GA is doing a very poor job. You seem to be implying all Managers have been equally as poor as GA which just isn't true. |
I genuinely don’t think that Ainsworth is doing a worse job with Kakay and no money than Warburton did with Eze and £3m in his hand.
They aren’t comparable situations.
If we are going by bottom line only, Mark Hughes is a better manager than all of them.
That’s a ridiculous statement right? [Post edited 23 Oct 2023 11:07]
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| Ainsworth on 11:07 - Oct 23 with 1289 views | YokelR |
Think the problem is regardless of Ainsworth (who I don't think has shown any indication he has the tactical or managerial ability to turn this round) we are exactly where we should be based on how this club has been run.
Ferdinand was kept on for years after it was apparent he had no talent for the role and worse still backed over competent, experienced managers.
Our recruitment and development is frankly hopeless. Whilst Brentford were buying players like Toney and Watkins we were wasting the Eze money paying players to leave.
The likes of Travelman and Kakay speaks volumes about our jobs for life coaching set up?
Changing the manager won't change how this club is run.
We will go down because we are one of the 3 worst clubs in the championship we may even end up being the worst. | | | |
| Ainsworth on 11:08 - Oct 23 with 1272 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Ainsworth on 11:07 - Oct 23 by YokelR |
Think the problem is regardless of Ainsworth (who I don't think has shown any indication he has the tactical or managerial ability to turn this round) we are exactly where we should be based on how this club has been run.
Ferdinand was kept on for years after it was apparent he had no talent for the role and worse still backed over competent, experienced managers.
Our recruitment and development is frankly hopeless. Whilst Brentford were buying players like Toney and Watkins we were wasting the Eze money paying players to leave.
The likes of Travelman and Kakay speaks volumes about our jobs for life coaching set up?
Changing the manager won't change how this club is run.
We will go down because we are one of the 3 worst clubs in the championship we may even end up being the worst. |
I think Ferdinand has more than cleared his name since he left! | | | |
| Ainsworth on 11:12 - Oct 23 with 1234 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Ainsworth on 10:49 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
That’s my point, they weren’t all terrible.
Ainsworth is a good manager. JFH had some success at a club much smaller than ours. McClaren: Eredivisie winner and European Cup finalist.
These are all good managers appointed in good faith that we have turned bad.
It’s not the manager. |
JFH inherited a decent set up from his predecessor at Burton.
McClaren is a better coach than manager. I wasn't aware he managed a team to the Champions League final.
Ainsworth is a good manager of a pub team. | | | |
| Ainsworth on 11:13 - Oct 23 with 1207 views | TK1 |
| Ainsworth on 10:55 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
How many games did Warbs win in his last year here? Do we need to dig up what people were saying about him in April? Plenty calling for his head.
We need to stop looking at the club manager by manager or result by result. We aren’t where we are now because Ainsworth put Adomah at RB or because Kakay takes ropey throw in, although I agree that it doesn’t help.
It’s a long term culture of chaos and inconsistency that is why we are where we are. |
It's just not true! No need to dig up threads, look at the tables:
Finished:
18/19: 19th
19/20: 13th
20/21: 9th (9th!)
21/22: 11th
22/23: 20th
It's last season. Last season was terrible. We know why. And we've made it worse this year by allowing this guy to keep digging down. It was obviously not bad at all with the guy who finished 13th, 9th and 11th and for some reason got the boot on the back of a bad run. You may recall 'plenty calling for his head'. I remember people being quite bemused and surprised by it, in real life.
The manager makes a huge, defining difference at EVERY club. Show me a successful team with an average manger. Yes, we need a DOF and all the rest. But above all, you need the right person in charge of the first team.
We can't just shrug ourselves down saying 'it's QPR, whole thing is crap, first team coach is great - we're crap'. I don't believe that. A good, smart, experienced coach keeps us up in a very average division. Come on now. | | | |
| Ainsworth on 11:14 - Oct 23 with 1185 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Ainsworth on 11:08 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I think Ferdinand has more than cleared his name since he left! |
You genuinely believe that? So our current state is nothing to do with the DoF for the previous eight years? | | | |
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