| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic 12:17 - Jan 4 with 53820 views | exiledclaseboy |
Apparently. Cue a few days of outraged reaction until Oldham change their mind. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:02 - Jan 9 with 1680 views | Flashberryjack |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:41 - Jan 9 by londonlisa2001 |
oh for God's sake - the rewriting of evidence in this case to suit the fallback position of total misogyny is simply breathtaking.
They didn't jail him on her word. In fact, that's pretty much the one thing that absolutely didn't happen.
There was evidence and quite a lot of it. From independent witnesses, from CCTV, from blood tests and from the statements of the two men involved as well. The problem is, people are only seeing the evidence that the Evans camp wants them to see. Yesterday we had a whole load of the 'she doesn't look drunk to me' crap because of (illegal) CCTV pictures on his web site. Are people aware that there is CCTV evidence (obviously not on his web site) which shows her lying flat on her face on the ground, not moving, for quite some time?
They did use the beyond reasonable doubt test - and convicted him - unanimously. According to some on here, the jury (which included men by the way) were obviously totally unable to see the reality staring them in the face that the girl was 'right up for it' - and that's after hearing the evidence. What a bunch of idiots eh?
The one thing that this case proves beyond any reasonable doubt, is that someone with the money to fund an incessant smear campaign can get away with all sorts of stuff, because the people looking at chedevans.com or the constant biased leaks from the Evans camp onto social media are seemingly unable to realise that what they are reading is the equivalent of the Itay Shechter '20 greatest goals' you tube clip.
Even yesterday, where the Evans camp released stuff about 'mob rule' and it quickly became accepted fact that people had been threatened with rape and violence if he was taken on - do you realise that Greater Manchester Police stated categorically that there had not been a single reported threat to anyone connected with Oldham- not one (apart from what they termed as low level social media abuse that they didn't take seriously). Oldham pulled out, not because of 'threats from the mob' but because every single one of their sponsors told them they were pulling out of the club. But the Evans camp went into overdrive, again trying to show their little angel as a victim.
It's pathetic - stop listening to the crap that's emanating from their side all the time and actually look at the reports from people that know what they're talking about - read David Conn in the Guardian (together with Henry Winter probably the best commentator on football in the country) and read what he says about the case, about the web site and about the events of yesterday. |
Lisa
The Jury has given the verdict. The Judge has passed the sentence...The HMPS has executed the prescribed punishment.
I sincerely hope that all those affected by these horrible events are given the opportunity to get on with the rest of their lives, as best they can given the media feeding frenzy surrounding this case. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:11 - Jan 9 with 1652 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:53 - Jan 9 by trampie |
I never said they did jail him on her word, she could not remember anything from what i remember reading, i've been in conversations for several posts about rape cases in general and the level of probability to get a conviction and when I have been talking about one word against another I have been talking in general and not about the Evans case.
I don't know what the Evans camp has been saying, I have not seen their website or video's, I followed the case at the time it happened a few years ago and have read very little since, I did listen to the panel debate it on Question Time last night, where a woman on the panel that had studied the case said if she was on the jury she would not have found Evans guilty but she excepted the juries verdict, that is about the only outside content I have seen since its been back in the news.
So you Lisa are the one judging by your posts that is influenced by what people are currently saying ?, some would say there is a witch hunt and a mob mentality out there going on and it looks like you are taking it all in. [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 14:57]
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nonsense.
The 'woman' on Question Time last night - Julia Hartley-Brewer by the way, stated she had read the evidence in detail and then proceeded to get almost everything that she said wrong.
For example, she said some nonsense about the fact that the woman had 'given consent' to 1 and not to the other about 5 minutes apart - that is simply factually incorrect and not what was found to have happened.
There is a witch hunt and a mob mentality you are right - and almost all of it is happening from the Ched Evans side.
I find it genuinely alarming that your position appears to be that given virtually all rape cases are one person's word against another, and you don't believe that to be sufficient to convict anyone, in your view there is no basis in general where a rapist would be found guilty.
There is a general attitude towards women that is frankly disgraceful. Even in a post on here today (not by you) about West Ham, there was some throwaway comment about Karen Brady 'dropping her knickers'. It's sickening.
If you listen to the police, they are genuinely concerned about what they call a 'rape culture' emerging in the UK, fuelled partly by the overwhelming amount of pornography that everyone is subjected to on line. Women are being spoken about as 'fair game' and 'up for it' and other similar things and you, amongst others, are basically saying that rape can never be proved unless there is, presumably, a witness or overwhelming physical violence.
The other panelists on Question Time (the 4 of them, including 3 men) said that they do not believe that Evans should be able to join a club - strange how you didn't mention that. |  | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:13 - Jan 9 with 1647 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:02 - Jan 9 by Flashberryjack |
Lisa
The Jury has given the verdict. The Judge has passed the sentence...The HMPS has executed the prescribed punishment.
I sincerely hope that all those affected by these horrible events are given the opportunity to get on with the rest of their lives, as best they can given the media feeding frenzy surrounding this case. |
Yes - you're absolutely right. I just find the discussion on here to be horrible. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:14 - Jan 9 with 1642 views | SkewenJack |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:01 - Jan 9 by perchrockjack |
Idoing y n m doing my level best to stay out of this god awful thread but things need to be said.
Some obvious mysogony peeping through with beauts like "on the word of a woman".
Some massive disgusting turd speak Ive not seen for ages and its Welsh people of all people.
Some clearly have old non conformist values of women being suitable only for certain things at certain times.
Some old outdated tenets of Old Testament drivel metered out for all to puke over here.
If those actually looking to mitigate Evans antics are genuine then they have big issues to deal with in life. Im older than most on here and trust me, you re soul will be found it and all the posturings on an internet chat room to invisible mates will be of no avail.
To help, it matters not if a woman bends over and has a pizza en route and gives every intention of having sex, when times comes and pants are down and flesh is willing, if she changes her mind and the chap carries on he is GUILTY. The onus is ALWAYS on the man.
Now please ,Phil, shut this thread down |
The only person to say she changed her mind in this whole case.
is you. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:28 - Jan 9 with 1620 views | trampie |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:11 - Jan 9 by londonlisa2001 |
nonsense.
The 'woman' on Question Time last night - Julia Hartley-Brewer by the way, stated she had read the evidence in detail and then proceeded to get almost everything that she said wrong.
For example, she said some nonsense about the fact that the woman had 'given consent' to 1 and not to the other about 5 minutes apart - that is simply factually incorrect and not what was found to have happened.
There is a witch hunt and a mob mentality you are right - and almost all of it is happening from the Ched Evans side.
I find it genuinely alarming that your position appears to be that given virtually all rape cases are one person's word against another, and you don't believe that to be sufficient to convict anyone, in your view there is no basis in general where a rapist would be found guilty.
There is a general attitude towards women that is frankly disgraceful. Even in a post on here today (not by you) about West Ham, there was some throwaway comment about Karen Brady 'dropping her knickers'. It's sickening.
If you listen to the police, they are genuinely concerned about what they call a 'rape culture' emerging in the UK, fuelled partly by the overwhelming amount of pornography that everyone is subjected to on line. Women are being spoken about as 'fair game' and 'up for it' and other similar things and you, amongst others, are basically saying that rape can never be proved unless there is, presumably, a witness or overwhelming physical violence.
The other panelists on Question Time (the 4 of them, including 3 men) said that they do not believe that Evans should be able to join a club - strange how you didn't mention that. |
Nonsense,
You are wrong in saying that Julia Hartley-Brewer had got almost everything wrong.
The only reason I mentioned the woman on the panel that indicated she would have not voted to convict Evans if she was on the jury was because it was a brave thing to do on national tv, I certainly did not expect anybody to say such a thing on tv, even if I thought that a person thought Evans should not have been found guilty I still wont have guessed that somebody was likely to come out and say it on tv in such an environment.
I am genuinely alarmed that you think that one person's word against another is sufficient to convict anyone.
Women get treated with respect most of the time but the same can't always be said as regards men getting treated with respect unfortunately. [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 15:41]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:52 - Jan 9 with 1578 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:28 - Jan 9 by trampie |
Nonsense,
You are wrong in saying that Julia Hartley-Brewer had got almost everything wrong.
The only reason I mentioned the woman on the panel that indicated she would have not voted to convict Evans if she was on the jury was because it was a brave thing to do on national tv, I certainly did not expect anybody to say such a thing on tv, even if I thought that a person thought Evans should not have been found guilty I still wont have guessed that somebody was likely to come out and say it on tv in such an environment.
I am genuinely alarmed that you think that one person's word against another is sufficient to convict anyone.
Women get treated with respect most of the time but the same can't always be said as regards men getting treated with respect unfortunately. [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 15:41]
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You said that you don't know much about it, so how do you know if she got facts wrong?
She got several facts about the case wrong last night.
And I don't always think one person's word against another is enough to convict - I didn't say that. You have taken me saying that it can be enough to it is always sufficient. It depends on the circumstances in each case and other evidence - in this case there was other evidence, but people are trying to ignore it. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:15 - Jan 9 with 1562 views | Uxbridge |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:14 - Jan 9 by jackonicko |
Too drunk to consent is only one piece of the jigsaw. One piece of the evidential base. Which is why Ched was convicted and the other defendant wasn't, with the same drunk female. The other evidence in the case was very different for the two defendants - resulting in different outcomes.
The more precise legal test is in my post on page 17, cut and pasted from the judge's own summing up in this case. What is clear is you can still be very drunk and consent, either by words or by actions. |
That's good news for the likes of us eh 
Yeah, understand it's only part of the picture and apologies if that wasn't clear in my post. I'm not a fan of subjective things like that though. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:42 - Jan 9 with 1528 views | trampie |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:52 - Jan 9 by londonlisa2001 |
You said that you don't know much about it, so how do you know if she got facts wrong?
She got several facts about the case wrong last night.
And I don't always think one person's word against another is enough to convict - I didn't say that. You have taken me saying that it can be enough to it is always sufficient. It depends on the circumstances in each case and other evidence - in this case there was other evidence, but people are trying to ignore it. |
I followed the case at the time, I don't know anything about Evans website or video's that you have been referring to, what I know is ht I've read about the case not the things on the outside, you telling me to read what a football writer thinks about a court case, for crying out load, the writer isn't very good anyway [imo of course].
She didn't get several facts wrong, therefore you are the one who's facts must be wrong if you think her facts were wrong, out of all those people in a debating chamber, nobody said she had any facts wrong, others might have come to a different conclusion but even that was not very clear but as a point of order nobody disputed her facts.
You don't always think one persons word against another is enough to convict ??? - so when it suits you it is sometimes then ???
After all you said ''I find it genuinely alarming that your position appears to be that given virtually all rape cases are one person's word against another, and you don't believe that to be sufficient to convict anyone'', so its fair to assume you take the opposite view, eg its ok to convict one word against another - but now you have just said ''I don't always think one person's word against another is enough to convict '', so I take it that means that it is ok in some cases  .
Men are every bit as trustworthy as women. [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 16:45]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:42 - Jan 9 with 1527 views | perchrockjack |
Skewen..
Look at what I posted and show me where I stated SHE -in this case- chan ged her mind. I was and am speaking generically..
If a woman changes her mind, come to that a gay man too, then no cosent .
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:53 - Jan 9 with 1512 views | jackonicko |
Julia was a bit of an idiot on QT. Some of her facts were indeed wrong but more importantly the conclusions she drew from what she had read were in some places illogical and in other areas perverse. A shame she had to do that on the telly box.
I would be delighted to take her out to dinner and explain where she had made her mistakes, though. |  | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:53 - Jan 9 with 1510 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:42 - Jan 9 by trampie |
I followed the case at the time, I don't know anything about Evans website or video's that you have been referring to, what I know is ht I've read about the case not the things on the outside, you telling me to read what a football writer thinks about a court case, for crying out load, the writer isn't very good anyway [imo of course].
She didn't get several facts wrong, therefore you are the one who's facts must be wrong if you think her facts were wrong, out of all those people in a debating chamber, nobody said she had any facts wrong, others might have come to a different conclusion but even that was not very clear but as a point of order nobody disputed her facts.
You don't always think one persons word against another is enough to convict ??? - so when it suits you it is sometimes then ???
After all you said ''I find it genuinely alarming that your position appears to be that given virtually all rape cases are one person's word against another, and you don't believe that to be sufficient to convict anyone'', so its fair to assume you take the opposite view, eg its ok to convict one word against another - but now you have just said ''I don't always think one person's word against another is enough to convict '', so I take it that means that it is ok in some cases .
Men are every bit as trustworthy as women. [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 16:45]
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she did. She said, for example, that the reason she didn't understand the conviction is that the court had ruled (or the jury) that the woman had given consent to one and not the other when there was only 5 minutes between them. This is absolutely incorrect. The jury decided nothing of the sort. She specifically didn't give evidence about consent - she said she couldn't remember.
And no - it's nothing to do with when it suits me - as I said it's to do with other evidence also being available and the details of the specific case.
Saying that it is alarming that you think you can never convict based on one person's word against another is absolutely not the same thing as saying that I believe you always can. That's the sort of stretch that has ben typical throughout this thread.
And I didn't say anything at all about relative trustworthiness. Of course men are as trustworthy as women - it's got nothing to do with anything. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:56 - Jan 9 with 1504 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
I was discussing this with a friend & she stated that if this was a top english international player clubs would be queuing up for his signature . |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:57 - Jan 9 with 1501 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:53 - Jan 9 by jackonicko |
Julia was a bit of an idiot on QT. Some of her facts were indeed wrong but more importantly the conclusions she drew from what she had read were in some places illogical and in other areas perverse. A shame she had to do that on the telly box.
I would be delighted to take her out to dinner and explain where she had made her mistakes, though. |
She was just doing what she does which is be controversial.
She is sometimes sensible and sometimes sounds like a substitute for that stupid Hopkins woman. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:16 - Jan 9 with 1472 views | perchrockjack |
Men as trustworthy as women>/?
Now we are in la la land
Most of the ills in the world are caused by men..
I simply cannot believe what Im reading in this thread..
As I stated previously, seems (some)Welsh men have attitudes from a bygone age.
And we look at others and scoff. You couldnt make it up.
Women are trashed pretty regularly on here, some long term fans too.
Its simply the sewer state again..
We need this game to come along and take us away from this morass. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:20 - Jan 9 with 1468 views | trampie |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:53 - Jan 9 by londonlisa2001 |
she did. She said, for example, that the reason she didn't understand the conviction is that the court had ruled (or the jury) that the woman had given consent to one and not the other when there was only 5 minutes between them. This is absolutely incorrect. The jury decided nothing of the sort. She specifically didn't give evidence about consent - she said she couldn't remember.
And no - it's nothing to do with when it suits me - as I said it's to do with other evidence also being available and the details of the specific case.
Saying that it is alarming that you think you can never convict based on one person's word against another is absolutely not the same thing as saying that I believe you always can. That's the sort of stretch that has ben typical throughout this thread.
And I didn't say anything at all about relative trustworthiness. Of course men are as trustworthy as women - it's got nothing to do with anything. |
Some people argue she couldn't remember because they say she was incapable of consent, therefore how come one person was innocent and one person guilty [in the space of minutes] ?
So perhaps you could explain that Lisa so the likes of the lady on the panel could understand why.
As regards in general [not the Evans case] we have been talking about no evidence other than one word against another, no other evidence, if that is the case do you agree there should be no conviction if its only one word against another and there is no other evidence ? [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 17:24]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:24 - Jan 9 with 1460 views | SkewenJack |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:16 - Jan 9 by perchrockjack |
Men as trustworthy as women>/?
Now we are in la la land
Most of the ills in the world are caused by men..
I simply cannot believe what Im reading in this thread..
As I stated previously, seems (some)Welsh men have attitudes from a bygone age.
And we look at others and scoff. You couldnt make it up.
Women are trashed pretty regularly on here, some long term fans too.
Its simply the sewer state again..
We need this game to come along and take us away from this morass. |
that is sickeningly sexist and highly offensive. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:24 - Jan 9 with 1462 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:20 - Jan 9 by trampie |
Some people argue she couldn't remember because they say she was incapable of consent, therefore how come one person was innocent and one person guilty [in the space of minutes] ?
So perhaps you could explain that Lisa so the likes of the lady on the panel could understand why.
As regards in general [not the Evans case] we have been talking about no evidence other than one word against another, no other evidence, if that is the case do you agree there should be no conviction if its only one word against another and there is no other evidence ? [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 17:24]
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Donaldson was found innocent as there was reasonable doubt.
Evans was found guilty because reasonable doubt was not found. Ched claimed *he* asked for consent; Donaldson said he was the one who asked for consent on Ched's behalf.
Add in other elements of Evans behaviour, then reasonable doubt was not established. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:29 - Jan 9 with 1457 views | trampie |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:24 - Jan 9 by reddythered |
Donaldson was found innocent as there was reasonable doubt.
Evans was found guilty because reasonable doubt was not found. Ched claimed *he* asked for consent; Donaldson said he was the one who asked for consent on Ched's behalf.
Add in other elements of Evans behaviour, then reasonable doubt was not established. |
If she was unable to give consent, she was unable to give consent.
If she gave consent, she gave consent, she apparently can't remember.
How come one person was guilty and one innocent in that circumstance, its very concerning to a lot of people. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:30 - Jan 9 with 1454 views | perchrockjack |
Its meant to be skewen.
Im not sure if you have any daughters but Im right on womens side here and for me womewn as a whole get
more alarming sexist crap than men, who after all control the power bases of this country and most countries.
Women do not cause wars as a rule, and 90% of violent crime is done by men, notr women.
There s clear evidence of this attitude to women on this site.
Its like the old adage--if a boy sleeps around he s a right proper lad, but a women is a slag/bitch/clapper and you wouldn't want your daughter too but its ok for your lad .
That is how it is.THATS why this thread is disgusting | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:30 - Jan 9 with 1455 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:29 - Jan 9 by trampie |
If she was unable to give consent, she was unable to give consent.
If she gave consent, she gave consent, she apparently can't remember.
How come one person was guilty and one innocent in that circumstance, its very concerning to a lot of people. |
The post you quoted contains your answer.
Both defendants gave a conflicting statement when it came to consent for Ched.
One therefore was lying. When other elements of Ched's behaviour were factored in, it becomes obvious why he was found guilty and Donaldson wasn't. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:32 - Jan 9 with 1441 views | onetimejack |
I'm intrigued why Parlay has been banned for trying to get his point across on this thread when there are at least 5 other private detectives doing exactly the same thing. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:33 - Jan 9 with 1433 views | SkewenJack |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:30 - Jan 9 by perchrockjack |
Its meant to be skewen.
Im not sure if you have any daughters but Im right on womens side here and for me womewn as a whole get
more alarming sexist crap than men, who after all control the power bases of this country and most countries.
Women do not cause wars as a rule, and 90% of violent crime is done by men, notr women.
There s clear evidence of this attitude to women on this site.
Its like the old adage--if a boy sleeps around he s a right proper lad, but a women is a slag/bitch/clapper and you wouldn't want your daughter too but its ok for your lad .
That is how it is.THATS why this thread is disgusting |
Nobody should ever take the side of a certain gender.
it is a specific case. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:34 - Jan 9 with 1431 views | perchrockjack |
Parlay banned?
Just as I was getting started.
He ll be in his bed sit now with last weeks pizzas boxes talking to his invisible chums..
WAY OVER DUE.. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:37 - Jan 9 with 1428 views | SkewenJack |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:30 - Jan 9 by reddythered |
The post you quoted contains your answer.
Both defendants gave a conflicting statement when it came to consent for Ched.
One therefore was lying. When other elements of Ched's behaviour were factored in, it becomes obvious why he was found guilty and Donaldson wasn't. |
Lying or a hazy memory? they aren't the same and often happens when alcohol s involved.
however if one was lying, meaning the other wasn't, the other still say consent was given. not one person who would know said consent wasn't given.
She was however found to be lying with regards to her drug abuse. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:44 - Jan 9 with 1422 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 17:37 - Jan 9 by SkewenJack |
Lying or a hazy memory? they aren't the same and often happens when alcohol s involved.
however if one was lying, meaning the other wasn't, the other still say consent was given. not one person who would know said consent wasn't given.
She was however found to be lying with regards to her drug abuse. |
There was a trial with evidence provided. The discrepency was just one part of it. When you factor in other elements of Evans' behaviour, it establishes a pattern. A pattern which indicated Evans lied and cast doubt on Donaldson's claim of consent for Ched.
The fact the chedevans website, funded by his girlfriends daddy has cynically misrepresented tweets as "evidence", only partially shown CCTV cutting out the damning parts as to the girls state that night et al only fits that same pattern the jury believed to be the truth.
The drug abuse was a misnomer. She did not deny drugs; only difference was the timescale when the drugs were taken. The drugs had zero effect upon that night or the case; it was a tactic the defence used to try to establish the innocence of Evans. Nothing more, nothing less. | |
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