| Evans 10:47 - Jan 4 with 32783 views | batfink |
Just heard on 5 live Ched Evans is signing for a league 1 club |  | | |  |
| Evans on 23:25 - Jan 4 with 3196 views | olympicdale |
| Evans on 23:06 - Jan 4 by SuddenLad |
SSN have reported that the bofficials at OAFC are bprepared to 'ride the waves' of hostility and won't let public opinion sway their decision.
I wonder what their attitude will be when the club sponsor decides to pull out. I bet that will make them sit up and think.
If it hasn' t already. |
Thats rubbish, they would have known they would face a backlash, even more so if he'd signed behind peoples backs, which, in the era of social media is beyond impossible.
They need to stand by their convictions, a very interesting 24 hours.
edit: in responce to 442's post [Post edited 4 Jan 2015 23:27]
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| Evans on 00:14 - Jan 5 with 3123 views | Shun |
| Evans on 19:18 - Jan 4 by D_Alien |
There is also something in the fact an appeal has been allowed. Appeals can't happen automatically - there have to be sufficient grounds.
When the first lad was found not guilty, his relatives created such a commotion that the judge ordered the court to be cleared for the second verdict. Everyone associated with Evans were expecting a similar "not guilty" verdict - based on the facts presented. It appears the guilty verdict may well have been perverse, thus the appeal being allowed.
The first lad had left Evans in the dock with the words "see you outside". He too firmly believed the girl he'd taken to the hotel room had consented to sex with Evans, just as much as with him. Not assumed - consented.
I think I'll wait until the appeal. Evans would've been better advised to wait until after the appeal before trying to resume his career, except that he'd been given a personal guarantee by the Sheff Utd chairman that he was welcome back at Bramhall Lane upon release from prison. There have been enough miscarriages of justice (the Birmingham Six, anyone?) to reserve sufficient doubt.
As for "role models", the sooner people stop idolising footballers, football managers, football anything, the better. |
So much your last paragraph. |  | | |
| Evans on 00:22 - Jan 5 with 3108 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
The whole saga is really interesting and is naturally going to cause a hell of a lot of divisions in feelings. Is what he did worse than Hughes and McCormick - No - they both got pissed / took drugs and drove - Hughes also chose to run off and tried to get away with it. They killed people, Evans "victim" has a chance to rebuild her life (with the cash she has earnt from numerious press stories)
I expect grief for posting this but as my Mrs lives in Rhyl I have a little more idea of local feeling than many - she was not hounded out by Sheffield Utd fans but locals who follow Wales. Is the feeling that he was guilty there - no. Has she a reputation for this kind of claim and simular acts - I heard a few comments regarding this but dont neccessarily believe them.
Evans is fighting his conviction, to his own career detriment as he believes he is innocent, My gut instinct is that he is but was stupid.
He could have been all remorseful and appologised and went to loads of classes to help others but not meant a second of it - but he did not and still has not - Assuming nobody has considered he is innocent and Jury got it wrong and to refuse to accept he is guilty shows strength and morals in itself.
£500k striker on a free about to have conviction quashed - that would be some signing my Owdum |  |
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| Evans on 00:32 - Jan 5 with 3092 views | SuddenLad |
| Evans on 00:22 - Jan 5 by Thacks_Rabbits |
The whole saga is really interesting and is naturally going to cause a hell of a lot of divisions in feelings. Is what he did worse than Hughes and McCormick - No - they both got pissed / took drugs and drove - Hughes also chose to run off and tried to get away with it. They killed people, Evans "victim" has a chance to rebuild her life (with the cash she has earnt from numerious press stories)
I expect grief for posting this but as my Mrs lives in Rhyl I have a little more idea of local feeling than many - she was not hounded out by Sheffield Utd fans but locals who follow Wales. Is the feeling that he was guilty there - no. Has she a reputation for this kind of claim and simular acts - I heard a few comments regarding this but dont neccessarily believe them.
Evans is fighting his conviction, to his own career detriment as he believes he is innocent, My gut instinct is that he is but was stupid.
He could have been all remorseful and appologised and went to loads of classes to help others but not meant a second of it - but he did not and still has not - Assuming nobody has considered he is innocent and Jury got it wrong and to refuse to accept he is guilty shows strength and morals in itself.
£500k striker on a free about to have conviction quashed - that would be some signing my Owdum |
However wicked, the actions of Hughes and McCormick were utterly reckless but the deaths were ACCIDENTAL.
Evans VOLUNTARILY engaged in sex with a woman who did not give, or could not give, her consent.
If his appeal/case review is successful, then he will be cleared of the charges.
As it stands, he is a convicted rapist. That's the problem - not whether he might (or might not) subsequently be cleared.
Owdham can't win in this situation. They purport to be a family club yet are prepared to allow a convicted rapist to represent them and to pay him. How does that sit with the female supporters, the sponsors or indeed the people of Oldham >
The media are already having a field day and will milk it for all it's worth. Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until the outcome a future hearing before attracting all the adverse publicity. ? |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Evans on 00:49 - Jan 5 with 3080 views | D_Alien |
| Evans on 19:42 - Jan 4 by Bobbyjoe |
Parallels with the Birmingham Six are utterly spurious, and insult them and other victims of miscarriages of justice, where such victims were utterly innocent of any involvement whatsoever in the heinous crimes of which they were shamefully convicted. We can perhaps agree that rape can be a greyer area. |
If you're able to appreciate that a miscarriage of justice is possible, the concept of a "degree of miscarriage" is the only spurious point being made here.
Edit: Far from insulting the Birmingham Six, my use of their case as an example is intended to draw parallels with what can happen when a huge media outcry leads to a conviction. I seem to remember when they initially appealed, the kneejerk reaction was one of "hang the bastards" rather than "let's see justice prevail".
I can only say there's still an awful lot of knee jerking going on.
[Post edited 5 Jan 2015 1:11]
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| Evans on 00:52 - Jan 5 with 3071 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
| Evans on 00:32 - Jan 5 by SuddenLad |
However wicked, the actions of Hughes and McCormick were utterly reckless but the deaths were ACCIDENTAL.
Evans VOLUNTARILY engaged in sex with a woman who did not give, or could not give, her consent.
If his appeal/case review is successful, then he will be cleared of the charges.
As it stands, he is a convicted rapist. That's the problem - not whether he might (or might not) subsequently be cleared.
Owdham can't win in this situation. They purport to be a family club yet are prepared to allow a convicted rapist to represent them and to pay him. How does that sit with the female supporters, the sponsors or indeed the people of Oldham >
The media are already having a field day and will milk it for all it's worth. Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until the outcome a future hearing before attracting all the adverse publicity. ? |
I agree - Oldham signing him is somewhat crazy, but the whole story is smokey mirrors - Yes he shagged a pissed girl when he was pissed - did she consent - she has no idea tbh - but hey there is not much mileage in the press to I shagged a half decent footballer.
If (and they never will) all the facts come out re the case then he may well chase compensation for loss of earnings etc - Whats that going to be - £ 3 - 5 million quid?
I would hate us to sign him as does not give the right impression but again, knowing what I do of what happened, I feel sorry for Evans not the girl.
BTW if it turns out that Evans was not guilty does she get 3 years - no thought not - strange that.
Sorry if I appear passionate - I hate rapists as much as anyone but on this occasion it does seem more "Bentley" than "Craig" | |
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| Evans on 01:20 - Jan 5 with 3043 views | olympicdale |
What I don't understand, is why was McDonald cleared. If the whole basis was she was too drunk to consent to sex, then surely he was as much at fault as Evans, as he was with her when Ched Evans came in the room, from what I read she had no memory of the whole night, clearly in no state to consent to sleeping with McDonald originally. | |
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| Evans on 09:09 - Jan 5 with 2888 views | SuddenLad |
| Evans on 00:52 - Jan 5 by Thacks_Rabbits |
I agree - Oldham signing him is somewhat crazy, but the whole story is smokey mirrors - Yes he shagged a pissed girl when he was pissed - did she consent - she has no idea tbh - but hey there is not much mileage in the press to I shagged a half decent footballer.
If (and they never will) all the facts come out re the case then he may well chase compensation for loss of earnings etc - Whats that going to be - £ 3 - 5 million quid?
I would hate us to sign him as does not give the right impression but again, knowing what I do of what happened, I feel sorry for Evans not the girl.
BTW if it turns out that Evans was not guilty does she get 3 years - no thought not - strange that.
Sorry if I appear passionate - I hate rapists as much as anyone but on this occasion it does seem more "Bentley" than "Craig" |
The whole point is, that the court decided that the girl did NOT consent to sex with Evans, therefore the jury convicted Evans of rape. We know that our justice system isn't perfect - none are - but it's thankfully a damn sight better than almost all others.
As the allegation of rape was not concocted or invented then there is no reason why the female should be charged with anything. Sex took place, all parties agree. The issue was consent. There was nothing false or malicious about the allegation.
It's a very grey area and one which no doubt many a male will breathe a sigh of relief when he reads the circumstances.
Given the amount of evidence required to secure a prosecution (let alone a conviction) for rape and the fact that he was convicted by a jury, we all have to accept that he is guilty until such time as the conviction is (if ever) overturned. We are told that will be 35 weeks.
He may well be free to resume his career in the summer. Wouldn't it make more sense to wait and then take it from there ?
I genuinely don't understand why Oldham would put themselves in the firing line like this and give their supporters all this grief. It smacks of desperation - but at what price ?
It's a hornets nest and by the time the media circus is finished, Oldham are going to rue the day they ever considered taking Evans on. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Evans on 09:38 - Jan 5 with 2847 views | JimmyRustler |
| Evans on 00:32 - Jan 5 by SuddenLad |
However wicked, the actions of Hughes and McCormick were utterly reckless but the deaths were ACCIDENTAL.
Evans VOLUNTARILY engaged in sex with a woman who did not give, or could not give, her consent.
If his appeal/case review is successful, then he will be cleared of the charges.
As it stands, he is a convicted rapist. That's the problem - not whether he might (or might not) subsequently be cleared.
Owdham can't win in this situation. They purport to be a family club yet are prepared to allow a convicted rapist to represent them and to pay him. How does that sit with the female supporters, the sponsors or indeed the people of Oldham >
The media are already having a field day and will milk it for all it's worth. Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until the outcome a future hearing before attracting all the adverse publicity. ? |
Accidental they may be and whilst the courts may rule this to be case, myself and many other members of the public would feel inclined to infer at least some sort of oblique intent.
It annoys me that the courts don't tend to take a sterner view when one effectively play Russian Roulette by getting behind the wheel in no fit state to drive. |  | | |
| Evans on 09:53 - Jan 5 with 2806 views | macro |
Oldham have withdrawn the offer it seems |  | | |
| Evans on 10:31 - Jan 5 with 2748 views | dingdangblue |
| Evans on 01:20 - Jan 5 by olympicdale |
What I don't understand, is why was McDonald cleared. If the whole basis was she was too drunk to consent to sex, then surely he was as much at fault as Evans, as he was with her when Ched Evans came in the room, from what I read she had no memory of the whole night, clearly in no state to consent to sleeping with McDonald originally. |
From something I read, It seemed that because the girl was seen with McDonald entering the hotel and going back to his room - whatever state she was in - it was deemed that she was consenting with him. Evans however came back to the hotel later on - on his own - and with the girls claims that she didn't consent - this was enough to get him convicted. It is all very seedy at the end of the day with the room being booked in advance it seems with the sole intention of getting a girl/girls back there for sex. Leaving the girl on her own to wake up in an empty hotel room in the state she was in would not have helped either males claims of innocence either. |  |
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| Evans on 10:43 - Jan 5 with 2737 views | D_Alien |
| Evans on 10:31 - Jan 5 by dingdangblue |
From something I read, It seemed that because the girl was seen with McDonald entering the hotel and going back to his room - whatever state she was in - it was deemed that she was consenting with him. Evans however came back to the hotel later on - on his own - and with the girls claims that she didn't consent - this was enough to get him convicted. It is all very seedy at the end of the day with the room being booked in advance it seems with the sole intention of getting a girl/girls back there for sex. Leaving the girl on her own to wake up in an empty hotel room in the state she was in would not have helped either males claims of innocence either. |
I guess that's why she later tweeted several messages to her friends along the lines of "Hey, I've landed a big one! I'll have a pink Mini!" These were later deleted but have been picked up in a holding file via someone in the US with an interest in criminal justice.
These weren't available as evidence at the time of the trial. Not exactly showing signs of being devastated though?
[Post edited 5 Jan 2015 10:47]
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| Evans on 13:17 - Jan 5 with 2593 views | olympicdale |
| Evans on 09:53 - Jan 5 by macro |
Oldham have withdrawn the offer it seems |
I don't get this, surely they'd have known there would have been a backlash, if they truely wanted to sign him then do it, all that it's done now is get a lot of negative publicity for nothing. | |
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| Evans on 13:40 - Jan 5 with 2543 views | Bobbyjoe |
| Evans on 10:43 - Jan 5 by D_Alien |
I guess that's why she later tweeted several messages to her friends along the lines of "Hey, I've landed a big one! I'll have a pink Mini!" These were later deleted but have been picked up in a holding file via someone in the US with an interest in criminal justice.
These weren't available as evidence at the time of the trial. Not exactly showing signs of being devastated though?
[Post edited 5 Jan 2015 10:47]
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Is "pink Mini" a euphemism! |  | | |
| Evans The Facts of the court case according to crimeline on 13:42 - Jan 5 with 2536 views | wimborne_dale |
In case anyone is actually interested in the facts of the case:-
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans
I find it genuinely surprising that a conviction was obtained on the evidence of a witness who by her own admission couldn’t remember what had happened.
I find the thought of having sex with a girl straight after someone else disgusting but that is my opinion, not the law.
Am I saying Ched Evans is innocent? No, having read the crimeline report, I don't know.
Neither does anyone else here and most importantly, neither does the complainant.
If we are saying that she was too drunk to consent therefore it must have been rape (which appears to be the basis of his conviction), then we have a disturbing
legal precedent: if you meet a girl one night,
she gets drunk, you have consensual sex and in the morning she can’t remember a thing, you have committed an offence which carries a five year jail
term. |  |
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| Evans on 14:01 - Jan 5 with 2488 views | _dezzy |
I cant see it happening, 2 sponsors are threatening to pull out if he signs, |  |
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| Evans on 14:06 - Jan 5 with 2475 views | SuddenLad |
| Evans on 14:01 - Jan 5 by _dezzy |
I cant see it happening, 2 sponsors are threatening to pull out if he signs, |
It was inevitable that would happen. Now let's see whether Latics directors will still be willing to 'ride the storm'. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Evans The Facts of the court case according to crimeline on 14:08 - Jan 5 with 2470 views | dingdangblue |
| Evans The Facts of the court case according to crimeline on 13:42 - Jan 5 by wimborne_dale |
In case anyone is actually interested in the facts of the case:-
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans
I find it genuinely surprising that a conviction was obtained on the evidence of a witness who by her own admission couldn’t remember what had happened.
I find the thought of having sex with a girl straight after someone else disgusting but that is my opinion, not the law.
Am I saying Ched Evans is innocent? No, having read the crimeline report, I don't know.
Neither does anyone else here and most importantly, neither does the complainant.
If we are saying that she was too drunk to consent therefore it must have been rape (which appears to be the basis of his conviction), then we have a disturbing
legal precedent: if you meet a girl one night,
she gets drunk, you have consensual sex and in the morning she can’t remember a thing, you have committed an offence which carries a five year jail
term. |
And what happens if they are both drunk? She is too drunk to remember consenting - he is too drunk to remember having sex with her? | |
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| Evans on 15:22 - Jan 5 with 2369 views | olympicdale |
| Evans on 18:24 - Jan 4 by D_Alien |
If my daughter (and yes, I have one) went out looking for sex - which a girl is perfectly entitled to do - and ended up having sex with two boys, neither of whom she'd met before that night and both believing she had consented, I'd not wish either of those boys to be found guilty of rape. |
Well put there, the lady in question clearly had the intention to go out looking for sex, and had the intention of drinking, that was her choice and she's more than entitled to do so at the age she was, this sort of thing happens all the time in the media, when footballers are accused of one night stands often by people looking for a few seconds in the limelight. I do wonder if she knew they were footballers, either before McDonald took her to the hotel room, or in the morning. I do not see how the womans claim she was raped would stand up, if, as has been claimed, she had no memory of the evening, she would have no memory of consenting or not, it just seems very strange to me. I agree with the part about idolising footballers, people worshiping the ground they walk on, this needs to stop, they're not role models, they are merely people doing their job, some people need to stop holding them in such high regard. [Post edited 5 Jan 2015 15:26]
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| Evans The Facts of the court case according to crimeline on 16:14 - Jan 5 with 2279 views | wimborne_dale |
| Evans The Facts of the court case according to crimeline on 14:08 - Jan 5 by dingdangblue |
And what happens if they are both drunk? She is too drunk to remember consenting - he is too drunk to remember having sex with her? |
I dread to think what may happen. But what should happen is that the accused should be found not guilty as there would be no reliable evidence. | |
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| Evans on 17:53 - Jan 5 with 2164 views | Shun |
| Evans on 10:43 - Jan 5 by D_Alien |
I guess that's why she later tweeted several messages to her friends along the lines of "Hey, I've landed a big one! I'll have a pink Mini!" These were later deleted but have been picked up in a holding file via someone in the US with an interest in criminal justice.
These weren't available as evidence at the time of the trial. Not exactly showing signs of being devastated though?
[Post edited 5 Jan 2015 10:47]
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That's extremely scary... | | | |
| Evans on 19:00 - Jan 5 with 2037 views | olympicdale |
| Evans on 10:43 - Jan 5 by D_Alien |
I guess that's why she later tweeted several messages to her friends along the lines of "Hey, I've landed a big one! I'll have a pink Mini!" These were later deleted but have been picked up in a holding file via someone in the US with an interest in criminal justice.
These weren't available as evidence at the time of the trial. Not exactly showing signs of being devastated though?
[Post edited 5 Jan 2015 10:47]
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Surely this is evidence that needs to be presented to the appeal, scary if true. | |
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| Evans on 19:00 - Jan 5 with 2037 views | MoonyDale |
| Evans on 10:43 - Jan 5 by D_Alien |
I guess that's why she later tweeted several messages to her friends along the lines of "Hey, I've landed a big one! I'll have a pink Mini!" These were later deleted but have been picked up in a holding file via someone in the US with an interest in criminal justice.
These weren't available as evidence at the time of the trial. Not exactly showing signs of being devastated though?
[Post edited 5 Jan 2015 10:47]
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Would these twitter messages be admissible in his appeal? If so they are going to blow her case wide open..... |  |
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| Evans on 19:07 - Jan 5 with 2002 views | Scunnydale |
| Evans on 19:18 - Jan 4 by D_Alien |
There is also something in the fact an appeal has been allowed. Appeals can't happen automatically - there have to be sufficient grounds.
When the first lad was found not guilty, his relatives created such a commotion that the judge ordered the court to be cleared for the second verdict. Everyone associated with Evans were expecting a similar "not guilty" verdict - based on the facts presented. It appears the guilty verdict may well have been perverse, thus the appeal being allowed.
The first lad had left Evans in the dock with the words "see you outside". He too firmly believed the girl he'd taken to the hotel room had consented to sex with Evans, just as much as with him. Not assumed - consented.
I think I'll wait until the appeal. Evans would've been better advised to wait until after the appeal before trying to resume his career, except that he'd been given a personal guarantee by the Sheff Utd chairman that he was welcome back at Bramhall Lane upon release from prison. There have been enough miscarriages of justice (the Birmingham Six, anyone?) to reserve sufficient doubt.
As for "role models", the sooner people stop idolising footballers, football managers, football anything, the better. |
Agree that everyone should have waited until his appeal had been heard. This whole sorry episode wouldn't have come about if that was the case.
If the appeal had been thrown out, no club in their right mind would have touched him. If it had been successful, then fair play, sign a good player.
Sadly, some clubs are trying to steal a march and sign him before the competition increases. If the appeal is successful, then of course he's well within his rights to restart work. However, at this moment (rightly or wrongly - and I confess there does seem to be reports suggesting his appeal may be successful) he has been found guilty, therefore I wouldn't want a club I supported to sign him. |  | | |
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