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Readng the reports coming through, shocking stuff. It was a soldier apparently. I know 3 or 4 guys based at the Woolwich barracks but thankfully most went to Kenya last week.
Cut off a man's head next to primary school allegedly. In the middle of a weekday afternoon...
'One witness, identified as James, said he and his partner saw two black men attack a young man aged around 20 in a Help for Heroes T-shirt with kitchen knives like he was "a piece of meat".
He told LBC Radio: "They were hacking at this poor guy, literally.
"They were hacking at him, chopping him, cutting him.
"These two guys were crazed. They were just animals. They dragged him from the pavement and dumped his body in the middle of the road and left his body there."
He said that after the "horrendous" attack, the two men, in their 20s, just stood around, waving knives and a gun, even asking people nearby to take pictures of them "as if they wanted to be on TV or something".
He continued: "They were oblivious to anything, they were more worried about having their photo taken, running up and down the road.
"They had no intention of running off or leaving or anything. In my opinion, they were waiting for the police to arrive to be shot by the police. That's the only thing I can think. It's horrendous what they were doing to that guy."
Some "brave" women tried to shield the man on the ground from them, he added.
He also said that it was 20 minutes before armed police arrived at the scene.
"When the armed police came flying around the corner, the man with the beanie hat, the tall guy, he charged at the police vehicle.
"A shot was fired by the other guy with the gun. Six shots were fired, both men went down and we now know they are dead as well."'
It actually started off as 2 people that murdered another guy, one of which could have been a soldier, and turned into Muslim fanatics against a British soldier that then developed into people slating the EDL for their inevitable response.
What hasnt changed is that EVERYBODY has condemned the 2 people completely as vile humans that deserve little to no mercy.
'Slating the EDL as always' is right, they should be slated, because they are dicks. But I dont think disagreeing with their response equates to diminishing or 'deflecting' the atrocities these 2 cnts performed in the 1st place.
So it's ok to condem one group as a whole but not another?
I don't know what the EDL stand for as I am not interested in reading their guff anymore then I know what the Koran says as I haven't read that either
But i really don't get the you can't tar all of one group with the same brush but can tar another
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Woolwich (non QPR) on 15:23 - May 24 with 1317 views
So it's ok to condem one group as a whole but not another?
I don't know what the EDL stand for as I am not interested in reading their guff anymore then I know what the Koran says as I haven't read that either
But i really don't get the you can't tar all of one group with the same brush but can tar another
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
What do you mean? I think everybody condemns Muslim extremists, the issue is people such as the EDL condemning the entire Muslim people. Essentially saying if you're Muslim you are pretty much the same as these people that carried out this horrendous act.
The EDL can be condemned as a whole as they are self proclaimed and reprsent just a fraction of the nation. Like the extremists themselves.
These 2 people are not representative of every Muslim in this country the same way the EDL are not representative of you and me.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead
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Woolwich (non QPR) on 15:28 - May 24 with 1305 views
Right so EDL set up because of 20 Muslims out of 30,000 in Luton with placards shouting stuff at soldiers so now 100 EDL go round causing the police trouble. Fantastic.
Anjem Choudary and his associated groups have been allowed to preach hatred for a number of years in this country without opposition, mainly because the Police were scared of being labelled racists. The lads who formed the EDL had enough of him getting away with it and thats where the opposition began. Why should these people be allowed to hold vile demonstrations in this country?
Yes, the EDL have some knob heads following them......but then again so do every large party, group, team, etc. Those criticizing the EDL, how many of you actually know more than what you've read in the paper? I like to form my own opinion...I've read stuff from the EDL, UAF, Stormfront, etc....not because I support them, just because I like to debate with an education of the facts behind me.
As for being a member of the EDL, no I am not. Nor of the BNP, NF, UAF or any other extreme group be they left or right. However, I can sympathise with what some of the EDL stand for and are saying.
I saw Kirtsy Wark getting very worked up against Choudry on Newsnight - I always fancied her - the thinking man's crumpet.
I wonder what would exist in the world today if Islamic extremism didn't? It's such a beautifully convenient club for every angry, paranoid, violent, wharped scumbucket to latch onto. They get to feel part of some kind of brotherhood AND act out the nasty shit they were quite possibly going to act out anyway.
More should be done to separate these people and their crimes from the religion they use as an excuse for it. Something a bit like what Thatcher did to the IRA in the H blocks. (Me agreeing with Thatcher - I think I need a lie down...)
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Woolwich (non QPR) on 16:58 - May 24 with 1221 views
Anjem Choudary and his associated groups have been allowed to preach hatred for a number of years in this country without opposition, mainly because the Police were scared of being labelled racists. The lads who formed the EDL had enough of him getting away with it and thats where the opposition began. Why should these people be allowed to hold vile demonstrations in this country?
Yes, the EDL have some knob heads following them......but then again so do every large party, group, team, etc. Those criticizing the EDL, how many of you actually know more than what you've read in the paper? I like to form my own opinion...I've read stuff from the EDL, UAF, Stormfront, etc....not because I support them, just because I like to debate with an education of the facts behind me.
As for being a member of the EDL, no I am not. Nor of the BNP, NF, UAF or any other extreme group be they left or right. However, I can sympathise with what some of the EDL stand for and are saying.
This is off their own website:
"The EDL calls upon the Government to repeal legislation that prevents effective freedom of speech, for freedom of speech is essential if the human rights abuses that sometimes manifest themselves around Islam are to be stopped."
So do they want free speech or not? It seems like a strange thing to say from a party set up in opposition to 20 Muslim protesters. If they do want free speech that has to include people saying things they disagree with, as well as them voicing their own opinions.
Now in the Woolwich incident all political groups, religious groups and any other group you can think of condemned what those two did. But only one group thought it best to go to Woolwich and cause more trouble for the police. They strike me as more interested in fighting than putting forward anything constructive.
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Woolwich (non QPR) on 17:10 - May 24 with 1204 views
Woolwich (non QPR) on 16:45 - May 24 by BklynRanger
I saw Kirtsy Wark getting very worked up against Choudry on Newsnight - I always fancied her - the thinking man's crumpet.
I wonder what would exist in the world today if Islamic extremism didn't? It's such a beautifully convenient club for every angry, paranoid, violent, wharped scumbucket to latch onto. They get to feel part of some kind of brotherhood AND act out the nasty shit they were quite possibly going to act out anyway.
More should be done to separate these people and their crimes from the religion they use as an excuse for it. Something a bit like what Thatcher did to the IRA in the H blocks. (Me agreeing with Thatcher - I think I need a lie down...)
Did you mean this, Bklyn?
As you said - important to separate these people and their crimes from the religion they use as an excuse for it. That base desire for retribution - which has no doubt got the EDL salivating right now - is easily fuelled.
On another point ... totally understand and have sympathy for the cause of the UAF but can't help feeling that a United Against Hate/Extremism movement would be far more inclusive and worthwhile. This shouldn't be about left and right but about decency, solidarity and humanity.
Alot of this Muslim anger is down to repressed homosexual rage I recon.We all know the Arabs like a bit of brown love even tho its not allowed .Remember Colin Ireland ..
Woolwich (non QPR) on 17:10 - May 24 by QPR_Nippon
Did you mean this, Bklyn?
As you said - important to separate these people and their crimes from the religion they use as an excuse for it. That base desire for retribution - which has no doubt got the EDL salivating right now - is easily fuelled.
On another point ... totally understand and have sympathy for the cause of the UAF but can't help feeling that a United Against Hate/Extremism movement would be far more inclusive and worthwhile. This shouldn't be about left and right but about decency, solidarity and humanity.
That's it mate, yes.
Gerry Adams in a funny hat gets told off by a housewife with a scarf round her head.
I'm not trying to demean Islam but the same template of religion or ideology as an excuse for violence has been used probably since humans have been able to hang around in groups and yell at each other.
It's just used as a label by some fringe lunatics to rationalise their antisocial urges, and we and 90% of normal, reasonable Muslims are all getting swept up in it.
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Woolwich (non QPR) on 17:56 - May 24 with 1150 views
Their main fight is between themselves, Sunni and Shia, who are fighting for leadership of the faith (pity they can't keep their fight internal.)
And they should smite ( I think that means take the head off with a sword ) a Sunni or Shia ( depending or whatever) But Wahibi ( Saudis are top dogs) do whatever they want.All of them get double points if they smite a Christian or a Jew
I wouldn't say it's right wing, I'd say it's facist. That's the problem the left face, they don't want to speak up against Islam because most that belong to it are from so called minority groups but they also recognise that it promotes sexism, racism and homophobia. The left don't know what to do.
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Woolwich (non QPR) on 12:34 - May 25 with 910 views
I wouldn't say it's right wing, I'd say it's facist. That's the problem the left face, they don't want to speak up against Islam because most that belong to it are from so called minority groups but they also recognise that it promotes sexism, racism and homophobia. The left don't know what to do.
Some truth in what you say, but that also apply's to the right, as they don't know what to do either !!
It's all about religion, not really whether your on the right or left of politics, although the EDL, say the problem is, Political Islam ?
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Woolwich (non QPR) on 13:12 - May 25 with 1063 views
It's all(religion) about the primaeval urge to grab someone else's territory ,then you justify it by saying some imaginary being with(or without)a beard promised it to you.....or has promised dominion over the world/universe/Tesco's/....
It's all(religion) about the primaeval urge to grab someone else's territory ,then you justify it by saying some imaginary being with(or without)a beard promised it to you.....or has promised dominion over the world/universe/Tesco's/....
Religion was a way to control the masses...thats my personal view. I classify my self as a spiritualist rather than belonging to a religion.
Some truth in what you say, but that also apply's to the right, as they don't know what to do either !!
It's all about religion, not really whether your on the right or left of politics, although the EDL, say the problem is, Political Islam ?
I think that you'll find that the right are more likely to know what to do - the left are crippled by political correctness.
The problems we face aren't new, Muslim and Christian societies have been at odds for over a thousand years. Both want to impose their ideology on the other. Look at Sweden a country which is one of the most liberal in the world and have a generous welfare state yet there have been riots in the Muslim community, the jewish community is constantly being harassed and last year a demonstration was held against freedom of speech. Can't say that it's a backlash because Sweden are in Afganistan or Iraq because they are not.
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Woolwich (non QPR) on 17:38 - May 25 with 962 views
I think that you'll find that the right are more likely to know what to do - the left are crippled by political correctness.
The problems we face aren't new, Muslim and Christian societies have been at odds for over a thousand years. Both want to impose their ideology on the other. Look at Sweden a country which is one of the most liberal in the world and have a generous welfare state yet there have been riots in the Muslim community, the jewish community is constantly being harassed and last year a demonstration was held against freedom of speech. Can't say that it's a backlash because Sweden are in Afganistan or Iraq because they are not.
As part of ISAF they most certainly are in Afghanistan.
It's all(religion) about the primaeval urge to grab someone else's territory ,then you justify it by saying some imaginary being with(or without)a beard promised it to you.....or has promised dominion over the world/universe/Tesco's/....
The have's and the have not's.?
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Woolwich (non QPR) on 01:33 - May 26 with 843 views
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