| Our country is fckd match thread 20:04 - Jan 15 with 229318 views | BlackCrowe |
On one side we have a spineless and rudderless government full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
On the other side we have spineless and rudderless opposition full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
Can someone please show us a third way beyond flipping Vince. Failing a Chuka et al third way then Disco, you're the man no to save us from jezwecan, Diane, Sneery Emily and McDonnell no? [Post edited 15 Jan 2019 20:05]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:06 - Feb 14 with 2676 views | Miss_Terraces |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:55 - Feb 14 by Watford_Ranger |
Who in your view is on our side?
Farage? Rees-Mogg? [Post edited 14 Feb 2019 22:55]
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None of them |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:26 - Feb 14 with 2640 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:55 - Feb 14 by colinallcars |
Elected government eh ? Sounds good in principle but ask people in northern towns who had to put up with Thatcher in the eighties without voting for her. When the EU offered money for the deprived areas of the north, Thatcher turned it down saying there were no deprived areas in the UK. |
Where does this argument get us. In my lifetime there have been many governments I did not vote for so have I the right to ignore said elected government and create my own enclave. If you live under a system where the government is elected by a defined electorate from a defined area you have to accept the result if you live in that area when you lose.
It seems to me what you are saying is the idea of electing a government is flawed because some people get a government they did not vote for. As it would never be possible to get a government everybody voted for the logical conclusion is that you would be happy with a government nobody voted for [Post edited 14 Feb 2019 23:31]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 07:39 - Feb 15 with 2555 views | GloryHunter |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:22 - Feb 14 by QPR_John |
No because we are a United Kingdom under one ELECTED government. But what has that to do with questioning the concept of EU money [Post edited 14 Feb 2019 22:24]
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The European parliament is ELECTED too. We all have a vote in the European elections, and our local MEPS represent us in it.
In addition to that, the Council of Ministers represents the ELECTED governments of the 28 member states. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:29 - Feb 15 with 2477 views | derbyhoop |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:17 - Feb 14 by loftboy |
In layman’s terms for every tenner we give the EU we get a couple of quid back, after we leave we will no longer be paying the ten quid so will not be missing anything they pay us as it’s less than we currently pay in. |
That figure may be true in terms of direct EU investment into UK (I'd seen figures of around 40-50%), but, in terms of what our businesses can do, the Return On Investment, as estimated by the CBI in the run-up to the referendum, was about 800%, i.e for every £ the UK govt pays in, UK companies get back £8.
I've got no means of verifying those figures, but if the CBI can't judge ROI, who can? |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:46 - Feb 15 with 2465 views | derbyhoop |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:22 - Feb 14 by QPR_John |
No because we are a United Kingdom under one ELECTED government. But what has that to do with questioning the concept of EU money [Post edited 14 Feb 2019 22:24]
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You can easily argue that the EU is just as democratic as the UK, albeit a different form of democracy.
There are European Parliamentary elections in May, this year. MEPs are elected by PR.
The EU council is made up of the elected Chief Ministers of the 28 (27) countries and they make most of the really big decisions.
The usual gripe is the EU Commission, where the Commissioner is appointed. But then how much say do you get in the appointment of Civil Service heads?
And our democracy has a second chamber, which is unelected and a head of state (The Queen) who has never been elected.
As additional evidence I present the 2015 GE where the SNP, with 3.5m votes won 56 seats, while UKIP with 4m votes didn't win any. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:05 - Feb 15 with 2449 views | derbyhoop |
After last night's farce, the title of the OP seems more appropriate.
Let's have a look at the timeline:-
In November 2018, the UK and EU agreed a legally binding Withdrawal Agreement (WA) and a Political Declaration. After 18 months of hard fought negotiations.
After putting off the meaningful vote in December, on Jan 15th, the House of Commons rejected the deal by a record majority (230)
On Jan 29th HOC agreed further motions (Brady on unspecified "alternative arrangements" and Spelman on avoiding the no-deal for which there is probably a Parliamentary majority). May even whipped her own MPs to reject the deal SHE had put before them 2 weeks earlier.
Last night, just 2 weeks later, MPs rejected those last options.
How does the EU have any trust in May or her government, who cannot deliver on any agreement they make?
Why would they bend over backwards to amend the WA?
As things stand the UK is set to leave the EU on 29th March with or without a deal. No variation of a deal is deliverable, IMHO. And, if you read any of the Government notices, it is clear that the UK is nowhere near ready. Even their own assessments point to a 9.8% hit to GDP. The UK economy contracted in December and will probably see more months of contraction, as business investment slumps and companies move out of the UK. Maybe, you won't be affected. I will.
Every time there is negative news the £:Euro exchange rate drops (1.1575 on Jan 25th, 1.1333 yesterday). For #UKinEU, unless they are among the 80% that are of working age or below, that affects disposable income. Assuming they are not earning in Euros. For UK citizens it will lead to higher inflation. Fine, if you are getting wage rises above inflation but for anybody on fixed income, that is another blow. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:26 - Feb 15 with 2430 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
So it's going to be no deal or the same deal that TM presented last year, which is to still be tied to EU laws
No deal it is then. remainers can now all
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:03 - Feb 15 with 2399 views | CaptainPugwash |
Arrrrrrrrrr..
How many o' youse have met yor Yeropean elected reprsentativs?Or even pressed a bit o' flesh when votin' time rolls arownd?
They be pirates an' not worthy o' the name.
Yo Ho! |  | | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:14 - Feb 15 with 2373 views | kropotkin41 |
I have avoided this thread like mad so far, but I just need to say, yes, the country is f*cked. On the other hand, somewhat paradoxically, the country being f*cked might turn out to be a positive development in some ways:
1. A united Ireland is a possible bonus.
2. Scottish independence......... bonus.
3. Most young people in Wales believe that Welsh independence is on the cards, and Brexit will hasten that......... bonus.
4. The City financial powerhouses are just going to leave, so London may be somewhere ordinary people can afford to live again.
5. The English regions are almost certain to demand devolution sooner rather than later.........bonus.
6. The economy is going to resemble a simulation of a major war and that, my friends, will cause a dramatic decrease in the carbon footprint of these soon-to-be disunited kingdoms...... tremendous bonus.
7. The reverberations of the damage to the UK economy will in all likelihood cause the world to tip over into a recession, if not the next Great Depression......... even more reduction in greenhouse gas emissions....... all good........ bit late........ but good news if you love your kids or grandkids at all.
Anyway, there we are, rejoice. The centre cannot hold, it's all going to pretty much fall apart, but the Butcher's Apron might be hauled down for the last time from its bloodstained flagpole, and that will signal a party for me. Brexit is a sh*t idea, and will only serve disaster capitalists who are going to shag us all rather roughly from behind, but there are some signs of a silver lining. Think about that when you're fighting over the last tin of dog food in the smoking ruins of Tesco. |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:22 - Feb 15 with 2320 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:14 - Feb 15 by kropotkin41 |
I have avoided this thread like mad so far, but I just need to say, yes, the country is f*cked. On the other hand, somewhat paradoxically, the country being f*cked might turn out to be a positive development in some ways:
1. A united Ireland is a possible bonus.
2. Scottish independence......... bonus.
3. Most young people in Wales believe that Welsh independence is on the cards, and Brexit will hasten that......... bonus.
4. The City financial powerhouses are just going to leave, so London may be somewhere ordinary people can afford to live again.
5. The English regions are almost certain to demand devolution sooner rather than later.........bonus.
6. The economy is going to resemble a simulation of a major war and that, my friends, will cause a dramatic decrease in the carbon footprint of these soon-to-be disunited kingdoms...... tremendous bonus.
7. The reverberations of the damage to the UK economy will in all likelihood cause the world to tip over into a recession, if not the next Great Depression......... even more reduction in greenhouse gas emissions....... all good........ bit late........ but good news if you love your kids or grandkids at all.
Anyway, there we are, rejoice. The centre cannot hold, it's all going to pretty much fall apart, but the Butcher's Apron might be hauled down for the last time from its bloodstained flagpole, and that will signal a party for me. Brexit is a sh*t idea, and will only serve disaster capitalists who are going to shag us all rather roughly from behind, but there are some signs of a silver lining. Think about that when you're fighting over the last tin of dog food in the smoking ruins of Tesco. |
Will Cornwall have a custom union and free trade with Yorkshire. Will there be a common currency and if so who will control it. It seems you are in favour of remaining in the EU with further integration but also in favour of splitting the UK. [Post edited 15 Feb 2019 13:39]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:30 - Feb 15 with 2302 views | loftboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:14 - Feb 15 by kropotkin41 |
I have avoided this thread like mad so far, but I just need to say, yes, the country is f*cked. On the other hand, somewhat paradoxically, the country being f*cked might turn out to be a positive development in some ways:
1. A united Ireland is a possible bonus.
2. Scottish independence......... bonus.
3. Most young people in Wales believe that Welsh independence is on the cards, and Brexit will hasten that......... bonus.
4. The City financial powerhouses are just going to leave, so London may be somewhere ordinary people can afford to live again.
5. The English regions are almost certain to demand devolution sooner rather than later.........bonus.
6. The economy is going to resemble a simulation of a major war and that, my friends, will cause a dramatic decrease in the carbon footprint of these soon-to-be disunited kingdoms...... tremendous bonus.
7. The reverberations of the damage to the UK economy will in all likelihood cause the world to tip over into a recession, if not the next Great Depression......... even more reduction in greenhouse gas emissions....... all good........ bit late........ but good news if you love your kids or grandkids at all.
Anyway, there we are, rejoice. The centre cannot hold, it's all going to pretty much fall apart, but the Butcher's Apron might be hauled down for the last time from its bloodstained flagpole, and that will signal a party for me. Brexit is a sh*t idea, and will only serve disaster capitalists who are going to shag us all rather roughly from behind, but there are some signs of a silver lining. Think about that when you're fighting over the last tin of dog food in the smoking ruins of Tesco. |
Sorry Krop but what a load of bollocks. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:36 - Feb 15 with 2287 views | FDC |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:14 - Feb 15 by kropotkin41 |
I have avoided this thread like mad so far, but I just need to say, yes, the country is f*cked. On the other hand, somewhat paradoxically, the country being f*cked might turn out to be a positive development in some ways:
1. A united Ireland is a possible bonus.
2. Scottish independence......... bonus.
3. Most young people in Wales believe that Welsh independence is on the cards, and Brexit will hasten that......... bonus.
4. The City financial powerhouses are just going to leave, so London may be somewhere ordinary people can afford to live again.
5. The English regions are almost certain to demand devolution sooner rather than later.........bonus.
6. The economy is going to resemble a simulation of a major war and that, my friends, will cause a dramatic decrease in the carbon footprint of these soon-to-be disunited kingdoms...... tremendous bonus.
7. The reverberations of the damage to the UK economy will in all likelihood cause the world to tip over into a recession, if not the next Great Depression......... even more reduction in greenhouse gas emissions....... all good........ bit late........ but good news if you love your kids or grandkids at all.
Anyway, there we are, rejoice. The centre cannot hold, it's all going to pretty much fall apart, but the Butcher's Apron might be hauled down for the last time from its bloodstained flagpole, and that will signal a party for me. Brexit is a sh*t idea, and will only serve disaster capitalists who are going to shag us all rather roughly from behind, but there are some signs of a silver lining. Think about that when you're fighting over the last tin of dog food in the smoking ruins of Tesco. |
Didn't have you down as an accelerationist Krop! 
Mind you, I found myself saying fck it bring the chaos and tongue-in-cheek quoting Durruti to a friend the other day (cos that's just kind of the wild party guy I am)
"It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities, here in Spain and in America, and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place, and better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth" |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:39 - Feb 15 with 2275 views | FDC |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:17 - Feb 14 by loftboy |
In layman’s terms for every tenner we give the EU we get a couple of quid back, after we leave we will no longer be paying the ten quid so will not be missing anything they pay us as it’s less than we currently pay in. |
Mate, there are many, many reasons to be critical of the EU, but this is just daft and really undermines genuine criticisms.
To use your analogy, yes we pay a tenner but that is a subscription fee for being a member of the club.
If the exercise was to pay money into a pot and then all take that money out of the pot again, what would be the point? [Post edited 15 Feb 2019 13:43]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:51 - Feb 15 with 2247 views | kensalriser |
You won't find an economist who won't agree that the benefits of EU membership far outweigh the costs. It's unarguable.
That's just the financial cost and benefit. I accept that people have other reasons for wanting to leave, fair enough, but this notion that we'll suddenly be £x billion better off is a fallacy. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:39 - Feb 15 with 2220 views | hopphoops |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:14 - Feb 15 by kropotkin41 |
I have avoided this thread like mad so far, but I just need to say, yes, the country is f*cked. On the other hand, somewhat paradoxically, the country being f*cked might turn out to be a positive development in some ways:
1. A united Ireland is a possible bonus.
2. Scottish independence......... bonus.
3. Most young people in Wales believe that Welsh independence is on the cards, and Brexit will hasten that......... bonus.
4. The City financial powerhouses are just going to leave, so London may be somewhere ordinary people can afford to live again.
5. The English regions are almost certain to demand devolution sooner rather than later.........bonus.
6. The economy is going to resemble a simulation of a major war and that, my friends, will cause a dramatic decrease in the carbon footprint of these soon-to-be disunited kingdoms...... tremendous bonus.
7. The reverberations of the damage to the UK economy will in all likelihood cause the world to tip over into a recession, if not the next Great Depression......... even more reduction in greenhouse gas emissions....... all good........ bit late........ but good news if you love your kids or grandkids at all.
Anyway, there we are, rejoice. The centre cannot hold, it's all going to pretty much fall apart, but the Butcher's Apron might be hauled down for the last time from its bloodstained flagpole, and that will signal a party for me. Brexit is a sh*t idea, and will only serve disaster capitalists who are going to shag us all rather roughly from behind, but there are some signs of a silver lining. Think about that when you're fighting over the last tin of dog food in the smoking ruins of Tesco. |
That's pretty much my take tbh. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:41 - Feb 15 with 2219 views | FredManRave |
This thread is now (un)officially suspended until our FACup run ends.
See you in May... |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:56 - Feb 15 with 2208 views | JAPRANGERS |
YOU RRRRRRSSSSSS!!!!!
This is far more important than Brexit! |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:30 - Feb 15 with 2164 views | kropotkin41 |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:30 - Feb 15 by loftboy |
Sorry Krop but what a load of bollocks. |
Hehehehe!
I was playing to a select audience - possibly just myself. | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:32 - Feb 15 with 2156 views | kropotkin41 |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:36 - Feb 15 by FDC |
Didn't have you down as an accelerationist Krop!
Mind you, I found myself saying fck it bring the chaos and tongue-in-cheek quoting Durruti to a friend the other day (cos that's just kind of the wild party guy I am)
"It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities, here in Spain and in America, and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place, and better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth" |
A Durutti quote on LFW. I can die now, my life is complete. | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:37 - Feb 15 with 2146 views | paesanu |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:51 - Feb 15 by kensalriser |
You won't find an economist who won't agree that the benefits of EU membership far outweigh the costs. It's unarguable.
That's just the financial cost and benefit. I accept that people have other reasons for wanting to leave, fair enough, but this notion that we'll suddenly be £x billion better off is a fallacy. |
Let me just quote this in case Loftboy misses this. I'd love to hear him argue the unarguable. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:15 - Feb 18 with 1950 views | loftboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:37 - Feb 15 by paesanu |
Let me just quote this in case Loftboy misses this. I'd love to hear him argue the unarguable. |
I never said we would be billions better off, just pointing out that our rebate is less than we pay in as another poster seemed concerned we were losing our rebate.
In other news a Spanish warship patrolled the Gibraltar coast at the weekend ordering commercial ships to leave the water, it’s guns were uncovered and manned!! | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:31 - Feb 18 with 1909 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
So 7 Labour mp resigned
Now I confess I bloody hate *Look at me* Chuka Umunna, can only hope they stand down as Mp's.... asif | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:32 - Feb 18 with 1903 views | johncharles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:15 - Feb 18 by loftboy |
I never said we would be billions better off, just pointing out that our rebate is less than we pay in as another poster seemed concerned we were losing our rebate.
In other news a Spanish warship patrolled the Gibraltar coast at the weekend ordering commercial ships to leave the water, it’s guns were uncovered and manned!! |
We are paying to be members of a club. Much like your ST. Do you get a rebate on your ST ?
If you stop paying for your ST do you think you are still entitled to the benefits ?
Or maybe you think that you can give up your membership, stop paying for your ST but still have all the benefits and a rebate thrown in ?
Sorry if this sounds aggressive, not meant to be but just trying to keep it short and sweet. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:36 - Feb 18 with 1883 views | loftboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:32 - Feb 18 by johncharles |
We are paying to be members of a club. Much like your ST. Do you get a rebate on your ST ?
If you stop paying for your ST do you think you are still entitled to the benefits ?
Or maybe you think that you can give up your membership, stop paying for your ST but still have all the benefits and a rebate thrown in ?
Sorry if this sounds aggressive, not meant to be but just trying to keep it short and sweet. |
But the rebate is less than we pay in. So we aren’t going to miss it are we. | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:08 - Feb 18 with 1837 views | WatfordR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:36 - Feb 18 by loftboy |
But the rebate is less than we pay in. So we aren’t going to miss it are we. |
Posted a link to this earlier in the thread and strangely no comment:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/14/brexit-has-cost-uk-economy-at-l
"The cost of Brexit to the British economy is running at £40bn a year and a damaging no-deal scenario could force an emergency cut in interest rates, according to a Bank of England rate-setter.
Gertjan Vlieghe, a member of the Bank’s monetary policy committee, said that since the vote in June 2016, the economy had lost about 2% of GDP compared with a scenario where there had been no significant domestic economic events.
The cost to Britain is currently £40bn a year, or about £800m a week of lost income, he said. Since the referendum, the UK’s economic growth has slowed while the rest of the world has recorded one of its strongest periods for growth of the past decade.
Vlieghe’s estimate for the weekly cost of Brexit so far is more than double the £350m the Leave campaign claimed could be saved on EU membership fees and instead spent on the NHS. The claim, emblazoned on the side of the campaign’s battlebus, became a key focus for debate in the run-up to the vote." |  | | |
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