| Our country is fckd match thread 20:04 - Jan 15 with 229226 views | BlackCrowe |
On one side we have a spineless and rudderless government full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
On the other side we have spineless and rudderless opposition full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
Can someone please show us a third way beyond flipping Vince. Failing a Chuka et al third way then Disco, you're the man no to save us from jezwecan, Diane, Sneery Emily and McDonnell no? [Post edited 15 Jan 2019 20:05]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:15 - Feb 7 with 2301 views | paesanu |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 07:36 - Feb 7 by loftboy |
And if you combine London the south east and the rest of the Uk it’s a vote for leave. |
Don't want to be pedantic, but you're living in a LaLa Land if you think that Leavers voted for this actual reality. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:40 - Feb 7 with 2282 views | Toast_R |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 08:50 - Feb 7 by GloryHunter |
And that's the problem. You're telling me I've got to have my left arm chopped off, and I'm saying I don't want to have my left arm chopped off, thank you very much. And you say, but the majority has voted that they want to have their left arms chopped off, so EVERYBODY has to have their left arms chopped off. I'm saying that those who voted for it should go ahead, but they shouldn't force it on those who didn't vote for it. |
I didn't vote for Ken Livingstone but it doesn't mean I can just ignore the congestion charge does it? |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:07 - Feb 7 with 2262 views | loftus77 |
One idea that has been dismissed as preposterous but, in the current climate, might fly.
Could not the government stand up, and honestly, transparently and openly, Cancel Brexit — on the lines of, having exhausted all avenues, it has concluded that Brexit is simply not workable given the development of the UK’s economic, social and political structure over the past 40 years.
Instead, we Remain in the EU - BUT only as its most consistently and openly Euro-sceptic member, armed with liberal use of our veto and the fact that we (and the EU) will always know that the majority of UK people wanted to leave. That leaves us in a powerful position to oppose any further EU integration and, curiously, does ‘honour’ the Referendum result as long as we keep it in mind in all our dealings with the EU.
The above is not a troll (!) and will enrage Leave voters (democratic betrayal etc). BUT isn’t this idea more honest and open than a 2nd Referendum which will cause further division and always be seen as an Establishment stitch-up, whatever the result? It’s a curious thing that people are more likely to accept unacceptable news, if you are just honest about it: we respect that people voted for Brexit but it just can’t work for the national interest therefore we, as a government, cannot deliver it for the British people. Instead, we will remain in the EU but as its most Euro-sceptical member with the 2016 referendum fully in mind. And the rest of the EU better know that. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:39 - Feb 7 with 2239 views | loftboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:07 - Feb 7 by loftus77 |
One idea that has been dismissed as preposterous but, in the current climate, might fly.
Could not the government stand up, and honestly, transparently and openly, Cancel Brexit — on the lines of, having exhausted all avenues, it has concluded that Brexit is simply not workable given the development of the UK’s economic, social and political structure over the past 40 years.
Instead, we Remain in the EU - BUT only as its most consistently and openly Euro-sceptic member, armed with liberal use of our veto and the fact that we (and the EU) will always know that the majority of UK people wanted to leave. That leaves us in a powerful position to oppose any further EU integration and, curiously, does ‘honour’ the Referendum result as long as we keep it in mind in all our dealings with the EU.
The above is not a troll (!) and will enrage Leave voters (democratic betrayal etc). BUT isn’t this idea more honest and open than a 2nd Referendum which will cause further division and always be seen as an Establishment stitch-up, whatever the result? It’s a curious thing that people are more likely to accept unacceptable news, if you are just honest about it: we respect that people voted for Brexit but it just can’t work for the national interest therefore we, as a government, cannot deliver it for the British people. Instead, we will remain in the EU but as its most Euro-sceptical member with the 2016 referendum fully in mind. And the rest of the EU better know that. |
Blimey I didn’t realise Vince Cable posted on here!! |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:57 - Feb 7 with 2220 views | Sharpy36 |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:18 - Feb 6 by GloryHunter |
Mmmm, only just. If you combine London and the South-East then it's a Remain majority.
(The astonishing thing for me is that Dover voted strongly Leave. The people there in work are mostly employed on the ferries. Oh, hang on, most of those people are EU guest workers, who weren't allowed to vote in the referendum.) |
Why combine London and the SE. My point is the SE by and large voted leave.
As for your other point, population of Dover is 113k, 1.1k work for P&O, there maybe other operators there i dont know, but to say Dover works in the ferry buisness is some what strange. |  |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:07 - Feb 7 with 2198 views | WestbourneR |
Anyone who voted to leave has a lot to lose and very little to gain - no matter where they live.
But I have to blame the remain campaign for where we are in many ways. It never once tried to get to core of the huge benefits of being in the EU gives us - emotional and practical - it went for the scaremongering campaign and that just never landed. It never explained why we are 'stronger, safer and better off' it just said it over and over.
So poor and throughly trounced by the emotive unicorns of 'take back control' |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:13 - Feb 7 with 2190 views | Sharpy36 |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 07:50 - Feb 7 by jonno |
Actually 403 of the 632 constituencies voted to leave in the Referendum. However, quite a lot of those MPs don't agree with their constituencies and want to remain. This is one reason the UK now finds itself in the current position. |
The same MPs that voted for the referendum to take place, that voted for Article 50 to be triggered they should have known by doing so would have put us in a WTO position. Then to further back their stance, standing on a manifesto that promised to respect the brexit result.
So the reality is, we find ourselves in this current position because MPs know better than us plebs that put them in power.
How the Liberal democrats are not in power when they seem to be the only party that has been steadfast in their brexit position is beyond me. | |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:16 - Feb 7 with 2176 views | Sharpy36 |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:07 - Feb 7 by WestbourneR |
Anyone who voted to leave has a lot to lose and very little to gain - no matter where they live.
But I have to blame the remain campaign for where we are in many ways. It never once tried to get to core of the huge benefits of being in the EU gives us - emotional and practical - it went for the scaremongering campaign and that just never landed. It never explained why we are 'stronger, safer and better off' it just said it over and over.
So poor and throughly trounced by the emotive unicorns of 'take back control' |
Your first sentance sums it up in a nut shell.
Millions of people voted Leave that have nothing already, and losing more of nothing will not impact their lives in anyway. | |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:17 - Feb 7 with 2174 views | WestbourneR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:13 - Feb 7 by Sharpy36 |
The same MPs that voted for the referendum to take place, that voted for Article 50 to be triggered they should have known by doing so would have put us in a WTO position. Then to further back their stance, standing on a manifesto that promised to respect the brexit result.
So the reality is, we find ourselves in this current position because MPs know better than us plebs that put them in power.
How the Liberal democrats are not in power when they seem to be the only party that has been steadfast in their brexit position is beyond me. |
I would hope our MPs are better informed that 'ordinary plebs' - that is their job. That's what we elect them to do.
I don't go to a doctor and expect to know more about how I should be treated. | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:21 - Feb 7 with 2167 views | jonno |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:13 - Feb 7 by Sharpy36 |
The same MPs that voted for the referendum to take place, that voted for Article 50 to be triggered they should have known by doing so would have put us in a WTO position. Then to further back their stance, standing on a manifesto that promised to respect the brexit result.
So the reality is, we find ourselves in this current position because MPs know better than us plebs that put them in power.
How the Liberal democrats are not in power when they seem to be the only party that has been steadfast in their brexit position is beyond me. |
Well exactly. The days are long gone when people thought that their MP "knew better than me". Very few people respect their MP these days - and for good reason in many cases. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:12 - Feb 7 with 2135 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 00:42 - Feb 7 by QPR_Jim |
You said “since the result of the referendum those on the remain side have not simply said we will be worse off leaving the EU but that we cannot leave the EU”. Nobody has said we cannot leave the EU, that’s plainly wrong, I (and I assume many other remainers) are just no sure why you would want to when it’s going to mean that as a country we’re economically worse off. I also can’t understand why some areas have voted in favour of this when they stand to lose the most especially when it seems to be in reaction to inequality that’s manifested as a result of government policy rather than anything the EU have done. Obviously there is an argument that they were lied to about the effect leaving would have, which I’ve already covered, that could explain some of the reason.
Anyway I doubt we're going to resolve this on here at this hour. |
The point I am trying to get across, unsuccessfully it seems, is that if the situations that remainers predict, empty shelves in supermarkets, no medicines, people dying for want of treatment, lorrys stacked up, planes not being able to fly, being less secure against terrorist attacks is what they believe then how can they possibly ever vote to leave whatever the EU imposed. [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 12:14]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:26 - Feb 7 with 2128 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 08:50 - Feb 7 by GloryHunter |
And that's the problem. You're telling me I've got to have my left arm chopped off, and I'm saying I don't want to have my left arm chopped off, thank you very much. And you say, but the majority has voted that they want to have their left arms chopped off, so EVERYBODY has to have their left arms chopped off. I'm saying that those who voted for it should go ahead, but they shouldn't force it on those who didn't vote for it. |
So in a general election if a government is elected I did not vote for can I say I do not accept the result. Those that voted the same as me can form their own government. Why should one group force their government on another [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 12:28]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:34 - Feb 7 with 2114 views | CFW |
Excellent program on BBC2 on a Monday night - 3 part series all about the European Union.
It is very clear that David Cameron got shafted and was totally out of his depth within the EU - to be fair he was very badly advised and it was sad to watch as the French and the Germans huddled round to laugh at his demise. We have always been the outsiders for not wanting to join the Euro and the EU just keep putting more and more layers into the mix to make it virtually impossible for anyone to ever leave.
There is no doubt we have not covered ourselves with glory during the past couple of years and have handled things very badly but it is time we stood up to these guys and tell them we are not going to keep on giving shed loads of cash into a un elected load of civil servants who think they can tell our country how it should be managed.
I am not sure the EU will still be around in 20 years time - it has run its course, great idea but it is now far too large and saddled with a mountain of debt thanks to allowing new countries to join who are skint. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:14 - Feb 7 with 2074 views | Sharpy36 |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:17 - Feb 7 by WestbourneR |
I would hope our MPs are better informed that 'ordinary plebs' - that is their job. That's what we elect them to do.
I don't go to a doctor and expect to know more about how I should be treated. |
Very true, pre internet days in both cases. But today as we all have access to a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips that gap between "us plebs" and those who are elected to govern us has diminished quite considerably. Add into the fact we are able to see the voting pattens of the elected it gives us greater power to hold their feet to the fire when they chose to back track for self gain, Anna soubry is one of many that has a proven track record of this and will likely lose her seat come the next GE. | |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:21 - Feb 7 with 2054 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:34 - Feb 7 by CFW |
Excellent program on BBC2 on a Monday night - 3 part series all about the European Union.
It is very clear that David Cameron got shafted and was totally out of his depth within the EU - to be fair he was very badly advised and it was sad to watch as the French and the Germans huddled round to laugh at his demise. We have always been the outsiders for not wanting to join the Euro and the EU just keep putting more and more layers into the mix to make it virtually impossible for anyone to ever leave.
There is no doubt we have not covered ourselves with glory during the past couple of years and have handled things very badly but it is time we stood up to these guys and tell them we are not going to keep on giving shed loads of cash into a un elected load of civil servants who think they can tell our country how it should be managed.
I am not sure the EU will still be around in 20 years time - it has run its course, great idea but it is now far too large and saddled with a mountain of debt thanks to allowing new countries to join who are skint. |
Great post and exactly how I feel. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:36 - Feb 7 with 2015 views | R_from_afar |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:04 - Feb 6 by QPR_John |
The point about the Lisbon treaty has nothing to do with the Irish referendum. At the time there was no law requiring us to have a referendum on a treaty change only a constitutional change. Lisbon was originally put forward as a constitutional change and when it was recognised it would require a referendum here it was magically changed into a treaty.
I don't think you have answered my question re the fact remainers think rather than we would be worse off leaving the EU we would be of a magnitude worse off to the point we actually cannot leave the EU. You say remain voters you talk to do not want to join the Euro but how would they vote in a referendum if faced with the Euro being adopted here not to mention the other points I made.
As for remaining in the custom union and free trade area how does that equate to leaving the EU. We would still be required to adopt EU rules without being able to affect them. We could not negotiate trade deals with non EU countries. We would have to accept free movement. Staying in the EU is better than staying in the custom union and free trade area without having any say in the rules. [Post edited 6 Feb 2019 23:05]
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Once we come out, even if there is no deal, our companies will still be affected by the EU when they wish to trade with its member states. If a UK company wants to sell to, say, a French retailer, and there is an EU safety standard, the UK company will still have to comply with it.
The problem is that said UK company will no longer be able to have any influence on that standard.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:44 - Feb 7 with 1993 views | traininvain |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:16 - Feb 7 by Sharpy36 |
Your first sentance sums it up in a nut shell.
Millions of people voted Leave that have nothing already, and losing more of nothing will not impact their lives in anyway. |
Good luck to the Nissan workers in Sunderland who are about to put your theory to the test. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:24 - Feb 7 with 1969 views | CFW |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:44 - Feb 7 by traininvain |
Good luck to the Nissan workers in Sunderland who are about to put your theory to the test. |
No one is losing their job at Nissan in Sunderland - in fact the investment made into that plant has continued with new cars being produced at that plant. A decision to switch production of a 4x4 car with a diesel that no one wants to buy in Europe to Japan is perfect business sense. Lets not forget the original decision to make the car at Sunderland was over 2 years ago and lots have things have changed since. Land Rover/Jaguar are on shorter working weeks in production of diesel vehicles - Nissan are not alone. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:32 - Feb 7 with 1955 views | traininvain |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:24 - Feb 7 by CFW |
No one is losing their job at Nissan in Sunderland - in fact the investment made into that plant has continued with new cars being produced at that plant. A decision to switch production of a 4x4 car with a diesel that no one wants to buy in Europe to Japan is perfect business sense. Lets not forget the original decision to make the car at Sunderland was over 2 years ago and lots have things have changed since. Land Rover/Jaguar are on shorter working weeks in production of diesel vehicles - Nissan are not alone. |
'No one is losing their job at Nissan in Sunderland'
Source ?
'Lets not forget the original decision to make the car at Sunderland was over 2 years ago and lots have things have changed since.'
That's one hell of a coincidence! | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:38 - Feb 7 with 1945 views | Sharpy36 |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 13:44 - Feb 7 by traininvain |
Good luck to the Nissan workers in Sunderland who are about to put your theory to the test. |
I`m so glad you brought this subject up. Here`s some good news from the motor trade that some news outlets have seemed to overlook.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/2019-toyota-cor | |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:43 - Feb 7 with 1937 views | traininvain |
I'm sure that'll be a big lift to the people in Sunderland with jobs under threat. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:05 - Feb 7 with 1904 views | Sharpy36 |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:43 - Feb 7 by traininvain |
I'm sure that'll be a big lift to the people in Sunderland with jobs under threat. |
What jobs ? No jobs have been created on the back of a proposal made from Nissan 2 years ago that it would, fast forward 2 years, produce a car that after the ailing sales of diesel driven cars change their planning strategy. I would hazard a guess that every car manufacture has since the VW scandal changed their business model and taken into account the harm that what that did to consumer confidence plus the new technology surrounding hybrid car production, and therefore where old technologies are fazed out new positions open up. | |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:12 - Feb 7 with 1893 views | CFW |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:32 - Feb 7 by traininvain |
'No one is losing their job at Nissan in Sunderland'
Source ?
'Lets not forget the original decision to make the car at Sunderland was over 2 years ago and lots have things have changed since.'
That's one hell of a coincidence! |
Producing the new x-trail at the Sunderland plant is simply not a viable proposition. The decision has nothing to do with Brexit - the market for this type of car is in the far east where they don't give a shit about emissions and as such shipping the vehicles half way around the world is nonsense.
This whole situation blew up from VW (German EU based company) lying about the emissions on their diesel cars to ensure they met the EU guidelines. Diesel vehicles are a reducing market within Europe and so yes a lot has changed within the past two years.
I would agree though that Nissan have tried to use the Brexit scaremongering bandwagon to justify their decision which is totally unfair. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:27 - Feb 7 with 1869 views | kensalriser |
Fact is no volume carmaker is now going to choose the UK in the future for any new investment plans. And you can extrapolate that to any manufacturer in any industry where most of the sales are in the EU27.
Brexit isn't going to solve anyone's problems. It's a con. |  |
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