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So you think the Tories under Thatcher were really not patriotic. You clearly feel that patriotism is not for you. So your only argument is that Thatcher pretended to be patriotic. By the way, unless I have missed it, nobody has explained to me why the Poll Tax was such a device of the devil.
"If someone robs your house, you don’t say: “I disagreed with the burglar’s policy, of tying me to a chair. But I did admire his convictions.” " - perfect.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
"If someone robs your house, you don’t say: “I disagreed with the burglar’s policy, of tying me to a chair. But I did admire his convictions.” " - perfect.
Cheers for that.But then you know it's all a scam if she's endorsing it eh?The wily old cow recognised there was a fortune to be made from Global Warming.
So you think the Tories under Thatcher were really not patriotic. You clearly feel that patriotism is not for you. So your only argument is that Thatcher pretended to be patriotic. By the way, unless I have missed it, nobody has explained to me why the Poll Tax was such a device of the devil.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
The poll tax. A totally justified tax to make everybody pay rather than those qualifying on an arbitrary basis. I'd bring it in tomoro.
Currently residing in Pinner, Centre of the Universe.
The poll tax. A totally justified tax to make everybody pay rather than those qualifying on an arbitrary basis. I'd bring it in tomoro.
John and Pom,
I'll try. Isn't a basic tenet of taxation that it be equitable, and that it therefore be structured based on the relative ability to pay?
VAT and the Poll Tax were charged with being inherently inequitable as they are/were aimed at disposable income, in their cases weekly shopping and rent/mortgages. As those with lower incomes spend a greater amount of their disposable incomes than those with higher incomes, this hits them not just equally but harder.
On the other end of the scale is inheritance tax, which is clearly a tax on wealth and nothing else.
In between is what's held by most economists I've read as the most equitable tax of all - income tax.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Tell me, was it only miners who were screwed over by Thatcher? No, of course it wasn't.
What about those in their twenties who were born to parents thrown on the scrapheap by Thatcher? Who grew up in communities that have still not recovered from her policies?
But that's okay, you borrowed a funny picture from someone else and posted it on a forum. Well done you.
Tell me, was it only miners who were screwed over by Thatcher? No, of course it wasn't.
What about those in their twenties who were born to parents thrown on the scrapheap by Thatcher? Who grew up in communities that have still not recovered from her policies?
But that's okay, you borrowed a funny picture from someone else and posted it on a forum. Well done you.
Apparently Thatch closed around 1400 mines whereas Harold Wilson closed just under 4,000. Why didn't the miners celebrate his death - genuine question?
I'll try. Isn't a basic tenet of taxation that it be equitable, and that it therefore be structured based on the relative ability to pay?
VAT and the Poll Tax were charged with being inherently inequitable as they are/were aimed at disposable income, in their cases weekly shopping and rent/mortgages. As those with lower incomes spend a greater amount of their disposable incomes than those with higher incomes, this hits them not just equally but harder.
On the other end of the scale is inheritance tax, which is clearly a tax on wealth and nothing else.
In between is what's held by most economists I've read as the most equitable tax of all - income tax.
Could never understand why Thatcher thought poll tax was a good idea, as you say, the sensible thing was to remove rates and gather it via income tax. Tory policy was always to keep income tax rates down so perhaps it was ideology.
Strange, though, that no other party since has tried to reform via income tax.
Apparently Thatch closed around 1400 mines whereas Harold Wilson closed just under 4,000. Why didn't the miners celebrate his death - genuine question?
I've answered this already on this thread. The mines closed in the 60's and 70's were all exhausted or only had coal left that couldn't be reached. The majority of the miners affected moved to other mines. Plus, the 60's was a time of full employment so it was relatively easy to leave one job and find another soon after.
You also have to consider the way Thatcher went about doing it. The stockpiling of coal over the previous few years and the massive hike in Police pay when every other public sector worker was seeing the opposite, both in preparation for a trap she was setting for the NUM. Which Scargill waked into. The lies spread via her friends in the media (including the Trotskyite BBC - see Orgreave reporting), the attacks on strikers by police, the alleged use of soldiers in police uniforms. It all adds up and it's eft a legacy of communities that have never recovered and also families and friendships destroyed by the choices people were forced to make at the time.
Perhaps in retrospect it was a Good Thing the mines were closed,after all they contribute greatly to Global Warming. Or is that too much of a dichotomy for you lefties?
The poll tax. A totally justified tax to make everybody pay rather than those qualifying on an arbitrary basis. I'd bring it in tomoro.
I believe the poll tax failed because, regardless of its merits or shortcomings,it was ultimately simply too difficult to administer and collect. Houses remain fixed whereas people move around and are difficult to pin down for tax purposes.
It was conceived based on the perceived iniquity of a household with many dwellers, cars, use of public services etc. paying the same rates as a single dweller.
Perhaps in retrospect it was a Good Thing the mines were closed,after all they contribute greatly to Global Warming. Or is that too much of a dichotomy for you lefties?
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
At present 38.4% of electricity production in the UK is by burning coal. In 2012 we consumed 64 million tonnes, but only produced 16.8 Mt. The vast majority of the rest (40.7 Mt) was imported from Russia, USA and Columbia. Burning Gas in responsible for another 27.7% of electricity production.
This means we are relying just as much on fossil fuels as ever, only now we have to transport a significant proportion of it from half way across the world, which raises its carbon footprint even more.
Apparently Thatch closed around 1400 mines whereas Harold Wilson closed just under 4,000. Why didn't the miners celebrate his death - genuine question?
Because he didn't cast them aside with f*ck all, Thatcher had no time for those who didn't support her, she didn't give a flying f*ck about the poor or their kids.
Can't we charge it against the EU Rebate account in the books?
Debit: EU Rebate account £10m Credit: Funeral Costs account £10m
I reckon that the EU rebate account will still be in credit, just.
A lot is made of the UK rebate, but it's not just us that get it Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands and Austria already get rebates and Denmark is being added to the list. The value is calculated via a formula looking at the differences between contributions to the EU and benefits gained.
Also do you really think in these times of austerity that this is a sensible use of public finances.
No way in the world should we be spending that on her. That's ridiculous.
This.
I had just started work when she came to power and lived through the Thatcher years. I did support what she was doing at the time but now think, with the benefit of hindsight of course, that whilst she did some things right, she got a lot of things wrong. Like most people do. I do have a problem with a ceremonial funeral for a politician, of whatever persuasion, though.
A lot is made of the UK rebate, but it's not just us that get it Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands and Austria already get rebates and Denmark is being added to the list. The value is calculated via a formula looking at the differences between contributions to the EU and benefits gained.
Also do you really think in these times of austerity that this is a sensible use of public finances.
I can see that it's a lot of money and clearly she was a very divisive figure, but I think that her death has caused a lot of analysis of the political scene then and now, not least on here, and hopefully we'll get more than £10m worth of value from that process. She was a world figure and was respected more abroad than at home so if the world wants to pay its respects then that's fine by me. I dare say that if the state wouldn't pay then someone else would have done.
The wages may have gone up more than infaltion but housing prices (both buying and renting) have gone up 50% higher than wages so everyone is effectively worse off especially as paying off a mortgae or paying rent is still the biggest monthly outgoing most people have.
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