| Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 94617 views | six_foot_two |
Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke |  | | |  |
| Thatcher dead on 13:55 - Apr 11 with 1776 views | Metallica_Hoop |
Reading this thread is better than any A-level politics lesson I ever attended.
I now know 3xmore about Nuclear fusion than I did before too
PS 1970-76 was great for Heavy Rock, maybe not so for Heavy industry. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Thatcher dead on 13:56 - Apr 11 with 1775 views | Cliff |
From the link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/datablog/2013/apr/08/britain-changed-margaret
There are links to the raw data if you want.
The text accompanying the last two graphs reads:
"Poverty went up under Thatcher, according to these figures from the Institute for Fiscal Studies. In 1979, 13.4% of the population lived below 60% of median incomes before housing costs. By 1990, it had gone up to 22.2%, or 12.2m people, with huge rises in the mid-1980s.
With it came a huge rise in inequality. This shows the gini coefficient, which is the most common method of measuring inequality. Under gini, a score of one would be a completely unequal society; zero would be completely equal. Britain's gini score went up from 0.253 to 0.339 by the time Thatcher resigned." |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 13:56 - Apr 11 with 1775 views | QPR_John |
| Thatcher dead on 13:47 - Apr 11 by MkPaul |
I have never agreed with everything anyone does and also agree there was good and bad in what she did, what I can't get my head around is people going as far as celebrating someone's death, it just feels wrong to me... Probably excluding the likes of hitler etc
In principle was the poll tax such a bad thing in so much as if there are 10 adults living in a house using all the services etc why shouldn't they pay more than 2 people living in a house using the same services etc? Some of the issues with the poll tax as I remember them was caused by the way councils used it to score points and generate more income than before... But time may have clouded my memory
In some stuff posted earlier on here I seem to remember that the numbers that voted for her did not change that dramatically between all three terms and were no worse than most of the governments we have had since.
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Always wondered about the poll tax myself. It seems the concept of paying for council services on the basis of the market value of the house as a policy is at least no better (fairer) than asking each individual to pay a share. Clearly there must be more to it than that, there's never been a rates riot, so if somebody could explain. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 13:57 - Apr 11 with 1768 views | NW5Hoop |
| Thatcher dead on 13:47 - Apr 11 by jonno |
Errr.....EDF are a commercial company (in fact they are state owned by the French). Do you expect them to build the nuclear power stations we need for nothing? The fact is that successive governments in this country have neglected to update existing power stations, and now they are mostly coming to the end of their lives and need replacing. The UK's largest energy supplier (Centrica) was going to be involved with EDF in building the new power stations but have now pulled out. Why do think that is? Because the Govt expected them to pay the full cost - after failing themselves to invest for many years. |
The reason successive governments have failed to build new power stations is that … the electricity industry was privatised under the 1989 Electricity Act. So it became the privatised companies' responsibility to upgrade the electricity generation. But guess what? None of the private companies wanted to indulge in that kind of capital outlay — until they got guarantees from the government that it wouldn't cost them any profits.
Why the f*ck shouldn't private companies pay the full cost of their own facilities? | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:03 - Apr 11 with 1756 views | jonno |
| Thatcher dead on 13:56 - Apr 11 by QPR_John |
Always wondered about the poll tax myself. It seems the concept of paying for council services on the basis of the market value of the house as a policy is at least no better (fairer) than asking each individual to pay a share. Clearly there must be more to it than that, there's never been a rates riot, so if somebody could explain. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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I never saw what was wrong with the poll tax myself - it seemed eminently fair in that everybody paid their share. Those people protesting against it were generally the same people that don't pay rates - and probably don't pay their council tax now - it seemed to me. Rent-a-mob with a dog on piece of string types. I'm willing to be corrected though, as I don't know the full SP on the poll tax admittedly. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:03 - Apr 11 with 1754 views | TheBlob |
| Thatcher dead on 13:55 - Apr 11 by Metallica_Hoop |
Reading this thread is better than any A-level politics lesson I ever attended.
I now know 3xmore about Nuclear fusion than I did before too
PS 1970-76 was great for Heavy Rock, maybe not so for Heavy industry. |
We could turn this into a rock thread Met,but it wouldn't be appreciated.
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| Thatcher dead on 14:04 - Apr 11 with 1750 views | Metallica_Hoop |
| Thatcher dead on 14:03 - Apr 11 by TheBlob |
We could turn this into a rock thread Met,but it wouldn't be appreciated.
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No best not Blob 
Or a 'Fusion' one  | |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Thatcher dead on 14:09 - Apr 11 with 1741 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 13:47 - Apr 11 by MkPaul |
I have never agreed with everything anyone does and also agree there was good and bad in what she did, what I can't get my head around is people going as far as celebrating someone's death, it just feels wrong to me... Probably excluding the likes of hitler etc
In principle was the poll tax such a bad thing in so much as if there are 10 adults living in a house using all the services etc why shouldn't they pay more than 2 people living in a house using the same services etc? Some of the issues with the poll tax as I remember them was caused by the way councils used it to score points and generate more income than before... But time may have clouded my memory
In some stuff posted earlier on here I seem to remember that the numbers that voted for her did not change that dramatically between all three terms and were no worse than most of the governments we have had since.
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I would just like to start of by saying that this post is NOT comparing Thatcher to Hitler, it is replying to a post that mentioned Hitler and is expanding on the idea that was used to illustrate.
MkPaul in you post you suggested you could understand (probably) celebrating the death of someone like Hitler but not Thatcher. My point is, if you are against celebrating any death then I have some sympathy for not understanding why people are celebrating the death of Thatcher. If however, you can see why some would celebrate some deaths, even if for you it would only be in extreme cases, then it suggests that it's not the celebration of death per se that you disagree with, but whether Thatcher deserves to dishonoured in this way.
In other words it's just down to where you draw your line in the sand. For me and an awful lot of others, both on and off this forum, Thatcher is over that line, fir you she's not - that is the only difference. | | | |
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| Thatcher dead on 14:16 - Apr 11 with 1724 views | QPR_John |
| Thatcher dead on 14:09 - Apr 11 by Cliff |
I would just like to start of by saying that this post is NOT comparing Thatcher to Hitler, it is replying to a post that mentioned Hitler and is expanding on the idea that was used to illustrate.
MkPaul in you post you suggested you could understand (probably) celebrating the death of someone like Hitler but not Thatcher. My point is, if you are against celebrating any death then I have some sympathy for not understanding why people are celebrating the death of Thatcher. If however, you can see why some would celebrate some deaths, even if for you it would only be in extreme cases, then it suggests that it's not the celebration of death per se that you disagree with, but whether Thatcher deserves to dishonoured in this way.
In other words it's just down to where you draw your line in the sand. For me and an awful lot of others, both on and off this forum, Thatcher is over that line, fir you she's not - that is the only difference. |
You start by saying you are not comparing Thatcher to Hitler but then in reality do so in the fact that the line you draw groups Thatcher and Hitler. Clearly you do not think Thatcher is a bad as Hitler and I accept that but nevertheless you have accepted there is a group in your eyes that does contain both. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:20 - Apr 11 with 1716 views | MkPaul |
| Thatcher dead on 14:09 - Apr 11 by Cliff |
I would just like to start of by saying that this post is NOT comparing Thatcher to Hitler, it is replying to a post that mentioned Hitler and is expanding on the idea that was used to illustrate.
MkPaul in you post you suggested you could understand (probably) celebrating the death of someone like Hitler but not Thatcher. My point is, if you are against celebrating any death then I have some sympathy for not understanding why people are celebrating the death of Thatcher. If however, you can see why some would celebrate some deaths, even if for you it would only be in extreme cases, then it suggests that it's not the celebration of death per se that you disagree with, but whether Thatcher deserves to dishonoured in this way.
In other words it's just down to where you draw your line in the sand. For me and an awful lot of others, both on and off this forum, Thatcher is over that line, fir you she's not - that is the only difference. |
Fair point ... But the reason I say Hitler etc is the killing of millions of people rather than having political views or introducing changes that you don't agree with ... Therefore I think the line for celebrating the death of my nan for example is far closer to the line for celebrating MT's death that the difference between MT and Hitler? That's why I can not understand it | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:20 - Apr 11 with 1716 views | MkPaul |
| Thatcher dead on 14:09 - Apr 11 by Cliff |
I would just like to start of by saying that this post is NOT comparing Thatcher to Hitler, it is replying to a post that mentioned Hitler and is expanding on the idea that was used to illustrate.
MkPaul in you post you suggested you could understand (probably) celebrating the death of someone like Hitler but not Thatcher. My point is, if you are against celebrating any death then I have some sympathy for not understanding why people are celebrating the death of Thatcher. If however, you can see why some would celebrate some deaths, even if for you it would only be in extreme cases, then it suggests that it's not the celebration of death per se that you disagree with, but whether Thatcher deserves to dishonoured in this way.
In other words it's just down to where you draw your line in the sand. For me and an awful lot of others, both on and off this forum, Thatcher is over that line, fir you she's not - that is the only difference. |
Wasn't good enough to post twice [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 14:20 - Apr 11 with 2080 views | BlackCrowe |
Bloody hell, I leave the country for a few days, Thatch dies and half the country turns into Rik from The Young Ones. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 14:21 - Apr 11 with 2071 views | TacticalR |
Poor old Hitler. He gets dragged into every thread.
If possible I would like to keep the discussion to an analysis of Thatcher.
For what it's worth, I am coming to the conclusion that she was a lot less important than people (including myself) thought she was. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 14:22 - Apr 11 with 2066 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 13:47 - Apr 11 by MkPaul |
I have never agreed with everything anyone does and also agree there was good and bad in what she did, what I can't get my head around is people going as far as celebrating someone's death, it just feels wrong to me... Probably excluding the likes of hitler etc
In principle was the poll tax such a bad thing in so much as if there are 10 adults living in a house using all the services etc why shouldn't they pay more than 2 people living in a house using the same services etc? Some of the issues with the poll tax as I remember them was caused by the way councils used it to score points and generate more income than before... But time may have clouded my memory
In some stuff posted earlier on here I seem to remember that the numbers that voted for her did not change that dramatically between all three terms and were no worse than most of the governments we have had since.
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I would just like to start of by saying that this post is NOT comparing Thatcher to Hitler, it is replying to a post that mentioned Hitler and is expanding on the idea that was used to illustrate.
MkPaul in you post you suggested you could understand (probably) celebrating the death of someone like Hitler but not Thatcher. My point is, if you are against celebrating any death then I have some sympathy for not understanding why people are celebrating the death of Thatcher. If however, you can see why some would celebrate some deaths, even if for you it would only be in extreme cases, then it suggests that it's not the celebration of death per se that you disagree with, but whether Thatcher deserves to dishonoured in this way.
In other words it's just down to where you draw your line in the sand. For me and an awful lot of others, both on and off this forum, Thatcher is over that line, fir you she's not - that is the only difference. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:29 - Apr 11 with 2035 views | SpiritofGregory |
Thatcher gave workers a real say in whether or not they wanted to strike by introducing legislation that ensured industrial action by majority voting. This stopped the heavily Labour financed unions calling strikes for petty reasons. An act that at the time outraged unions but now seems completely logical.
Maggie was also one of the first world leaders to warn about climate change.
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| Thatcher dead on 14:33 - Apr 11 with 2028 views | TheBlob |
| Thatcher dead on 14:29 - Apr 11 by SpiritofGregory |
Thatcher gave workers a real say in whether or not they wanted to strike by introducing legislation that ensured industrial action by majority voting. This stopped the heavily Labour financed unions calling strikes for petty reasons. An act that at the time outraged unions but now seems completely logical.
Maggie was also one of the first world leaders to warn about climate change.
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"Maggie was also one of the first world leaders to warn about climate change."
Proof positive that it was a potential economic scam.
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| Thatcher dead on 14:33 - Apr 11 with 2027 views | NW5Hoop |
| Thatcher dead on 14:29 - Apr 11 by SpiritofGregory |
Thatcher gave workers a real say in whether or not they wanted to strike by introducing legislation that ensured industrial action by majority voting. This stopped the heavily Labour financed unions calling strikes for petty reasons. An act that at the time outraged unions but now seems completely logical.
Maggie was also one of the first world leaders to warn about climate change.
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The unions weren't financed by the Labour party. What are you on about?
As for it being completely logical … The other week my employer threatened to break our long standing house agreement on terms on conditions. We had to have three votes in person and a postal ballot just for the union to be able to say to management that we would take action of this was pursued. Union reforms weren't just about breaking the power of union leaders; they were about reinforcing the power of managements. Which is rarely a good thing for working people. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:41 - Apr 11 with 2012 views | MkPaul |
| Thatcher dead on 14:33 - Apr 11 by NW5Hoop |
The unions weren't financed by the Labour party. What are you on about?
As for it being completely logical … The other week my employer threatened to break our long standing house agreement on terms on conditions. We had to have three votes in person and a postal ballot just for the union to be able to say to management that we would take action of this was pursued. Union reforms weren't just about breaking the power of union leaders; they were about reinforcing the power of managements. Which is rarely a good thing for working people. |
Your union could have said we don't think this is right and will ballot our members if you continue down this route ? Same effect really | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:48 - Apr 11 with 2001 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 14:16 - Apr 11 by QPR_John |
You start by saying you are not comparing Thatcher to Hitler but then in reality do so in the fact that the line you draw groups Thatcher and Hitler. Clearly you do not think Thatcher is a bad as Hitler and I accept that but nevertheless you have accepted there is a group in your eyes that does contain both. |
Of course there are many groupings that contain both of them, some of which you and I are members - the human race, there are some groups were they are members and we are not - world leaders, and there are some groups in which you, I and Hitler are members and Thatcher isn't - males.
What I was trying to get at was that if you could line up the world, past and present going from the worlds nicest person at one end to the worlds nastiest at the other, then we would all have our place on it, and at some point people will draw a line in that list beyond which they feel people will have "crossed the line" and will rejoice in their demise. Different people will set up the line in a different order, and will set their markers in different places, but for most there will be a line.
There I managed to say what I thought I had said earlier with out mentioning any name. Hope that is clearer. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 14:50 - Apr 11 with 1998 views | simmo |
There better be this many pages after Clint Hill scores. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Thatcher dead on 14:52 - Apr 11 with 1997 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 14:20 - Apr 11 by MkPaul |
Fair point ... But the reason I say Hitler etc is the killing of millions of people rather than having political views or introducing changes that you don't agree with ... Therefore I think the line for celebrating the death of my nan for example is far closer to the line for celebrating MT's death that the difference between MT and Hitler? That's why I can not understand it |
Fair enough I don't know your nan, but was she instrumental in getting a facsist dictator out of being extradited to face charges, or a supporter of Aparthied and the Khmer Rouge?
If not that might hint why for some the line lies somewhere between your nan and MT! | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:58 - Apr 11 with 1986 views | NW5Hoop |
| Thatcher dead on 14:41 - Apr 11 by MkPaul |
Your union could have said we don't think this is right and will ballot our members if you continue down this route ? Same effect really |
Yes, they said that. But managements take no notice of unions until they are sure there is some sort of genuine threat. At which point a ludicrously convulted process — you realise you have to have a ballot on whether you are willing to be balloted, right? - comes into play. The laws surrounding industrial action are now so deliberately complicated that most unions have to use lawyers to check the legality of any industrial action, and that it is impossible for any union to jump through all the legal hoops quickly enough to respond to any urgent threat to Ts and Cs from management. If a management is ruthless enough to do things with no notice, then there's nothing the workforce can do about it, because the union is legally prevented from responding quickly enough.
None of that is about trying to protect working people from oppressive unions. It's about trying to ensure managements can do what they want when they want. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:04 - Apr 11 with 1971 views | SpiritofGregory |
The 80s were great!!!
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