| Swans Trust Meeting 19:37 - Dec 4 with 19974 views | Landore_Jack |
Don't forget there is a trust meeting tomorrow at 7:30 pm at the Liberty Stadium. |  |
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:50 - Dec 6 with 1423 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 09:00 - Dec 6 by Pegojack |
I went to the meeting last night.
The first thing I want to say is thank you to the Trust Board who ran the AGM last night for a very informative event. I understand a lot more now than I did before. I also want to thank those guys and their colleagues for giving up their free time unstintingly on behalf of Swansea City fans and club. It is greatly appreciated, and the meeting said so as one last night by a vote of thanks.
The next thing I want to say is that I'm disgusted by the tone of this thread and the ill-informed opinions trotted out by the usual keyboard warriors whose only ability is to carp from the sidelines and do nothing practical.
The main thing I learned last night, and I guess those demanding legal action aren't aware of, is that actual basis on which that would have to proceed.
What we are talking about is the Articles of Association originally signed up to in 2002 by the original shareholders, i.e. the sellouts, and the Supporters Trust. What that says is that no shareholder has the right to sell his/her shares to one party without offering them equally to the other shareholders. That's all it said, and it was originally intended to stop one of the existing shareholders buying out other people and getting a controlling stake. We are talking here about a certain hotel owner.
What Phil pointed out about the sale to the Americans, and what most of you seem to be ignoring, is that the Supporters Trust didn't have the funds to buy any meaningful amount of those shares even if the Articles of Association were abided by, and the shares were offered to us. Probably not more than about 1%. Do you realize that this fact could seriously weaken our case in a court of law in terms of compensation or redress? Think about it before you spout off. Yes, we could have sought outside financial backing to buy 'on our behalf', but how practical would that have been? That would just be swapping one outside owner for another. So I understand the cautious approach of the Trust in committing our war chest of approx. £850k to a legal action which is not black and white, no pun intended.
The fact is, we have been stitched up and sold down the river by a bunch of guys who proclaimed themselves Jacks to the core, but have turned out to be a bunch of greedy barst*rds. There is no easy way to get back at them, and no quick way to win back control of our club, but the Trust is doing their best and proceeding with caution and intelligence. If you need to lash out, I suggest you attack those responsible, not those who are opposing them on our behalf. |
I would like to get some clarity on one thing you have said, "What Phil pointed out about the sale to the Americans, and what most of you seem to be ignoring, is that the Supporters Trust didn't have the funds to buy any meaningful amount of those shares even if the Articles of Association were abided by, and the shares were offered to us. Probably not more than about 1%. Do you realize that this fact could seriously weaken our case in a court of law in terms of compensation or redress?"
If the Trust had been involved from the start as it should have been then they would have had many Months to create a "save the Swans Shares Drive", which they were actually denied to at least try and raise the money.
I would have thought that would make their case stronger not weaker.
My biggest single disappointment with the Trust is the lack of "Communication of the truth of the Takeover, ie no investment" to all the fans.
I suggested a leaflet handout the day Phil released his report and nothing has been done since then.
I still do not understand why it wasn't carried out immediately and they can't use the excuse of not wanting to alienat the new owners as all they were doing was telling the FACTS as they are. |  | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:53 - Dec 6 with 1415 views | Pegojack |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:27 - Dec 6 by TheResurrection |
That’s one side argument, Mike, but the real truth in all this is the Trust should have made sure they were on the button throughout and to never, ever rule themselves out of any potential outcome or option.
I blame the sell outs for making sure they had Cooze exactly where they wanted him and I blame the Trust for not listening to strong voices stating quite clearly their set up was compromised, weak and at arms length. That, my friend is facking inexcusable.
Before anyone starts accusing me of being on some pathetic payroll, I’ll make my position clear on Jenkins, Morgan and Dineen, especially, as it’s these 3 I believe made the majority of the decisions down there. Their names are mud and what they once had and were loved for, the respect they had gained from all those years looking after our City’s Football Club, has gone up in flames. They will never feel safe in Swansea, they will always be looking over their shoulder and be regarded in exactly the same light as the City’s most hated villain, Tony Petty.
It’s as simple as that — Jenkins, Morgan, Dineen, Petty…. This is your legacy! What you are seeing now in front of your very eyes must be your worst nightmare and believe me, all of you, this will keep you up at nights and no luck will come your way.
You are scum and if this game wasn’t so important for us, the fans, not you kunts, you don’t even come into it, we’d be all over you. You won’t get an easy ride, in fact you will get almight hell and deserve it.
On the Trust, I am still sickened they let it get to this but now is not the time to listen to pacifying mails like SwanseaJill or you, Mike, sorry. Now is the time to put your foot down. |
Chris, I don't think there's a millimetre of difference between you and me on our opinion of the sellouts, and not much difference between our opinion of the Cooze episode. I think the Trust f*cked up there.
There should never have been any question of the supporters' director being paid a salary for occupying that position, or for having any business interests dependent on the patronage of the club. It's a straightforward conflict of interests. The Trust took their eye off the ball, they've admitted it, apologized and put measures in place to prevent it ever happening again.
Where we part company is blaming the Trust for what's happened regarding the takeover. The first one in 2015 was defeated purely by the intervention of the Trust. The sellouts deliberately kept the second one secret to prevent their deal being scuppered again. The sellouts have also resisted and ignored all efforts by the Trust to boost our shareholding to 25% to protect our voting rights.
You say now is the time to 'put our foot down'. What do you mean? What do you propose? Spell it out. |  | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:54 - Dec 6 with 1412 views | LeonWasGod |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 08:34 - Dec 6 by monmouth |
I think DYSS is smack bang on the money here. Trust needs to go to PR war and prove it has nothing sinister to hide.
It doesn't have to damage any relationships as it is the old scum that would be targeted as they claimed 'investment', 'next level' and all that shit and need to be publicly called out. There are already no relationships there. Trust statements and narrowly focused social media are not going to do that for 80% of fans.
I liked the line earlier that their cowardly and greedy actions to enrich themselves have deliberately made ordinary fans' shares worthless.
If there is no legal threat there needs to be reputational pressure, or there is nothing, and we might as well pack up and go home. |
Largely agree with that Mon other than about damage to relationships. Huw is very much part of the current regime too as the Americans appear to be deferring to him on occassion (or at least 'learning' from him). Dineen too. Given that those two are the day-to-day face of the board, it would very much be a case of damaging current relations if the Trust took action.
Which is probably why nothing has happened.
Agree with your sentiments and frustrations though. Very much so, as I'd hope all fans do. |  | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:57 - Dec 6 with 1401 views | Murph75 |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:53 - Dec 6 by Pegojack |
Chris, I don't think there's a millimetre of difference between you and me on our opinion of the sellouts, and not much difference between our opinion of the Cooze episode. I think the Trust f*cked up there.
There should never have been any question of the supporters' director being paid a salary for occupying that position, or for having any business interests dependent on the patronage of the club. It's a straightforward conflict of interests. The Trust took their eye off the ball, they've admitted it, apologized and put measures in place to prevent it ever happening again.
Where we part company is blaming the Trust for what's happened regarding the takeover. The first one in 2015 was defeated purely by the intervention of the Trust. The sellouts deliberately kept the second one secret to prevent their deal being scuppered again. The sellouts have also resisted and ignored all efforts by the Trust to boost our shareholding to 25% to protect our voting rights.
You say now is the time to 'put our foot down'. What do you mean? What do you propose? Spell it out. |
I definitely believe the trust need to start cranking the pressure on the owners more. This has been dragging on since the summer and we're no further forward. In my eyes at the moment the trust are looking extremely week.
Others on here have mentioned a PR campaign which would be a lot more forceful than the weakly worded statements they're currently releasing now and again.
They need to grow some balls. |  | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:57 - Dec 6 with 1402 views | Pegojack |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:50 - Dec 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
I would like to get some clarity on one thing you have said, "What Phil pointed out about the sale to the Americans, and what most of you seem to be ignoring, is that the Supporters Trust didn't have the funds to buy any meaningful amount of those shares even if the Articles of Association were abided by, and the shares were offered to us. Probably not more than about 1%. Do you realize that this fact could seriously weaken our case in a court of law in terms of compensation or redress?"
If the Trust had been involved from the start as it should have been then they would have had many Months to create a "save the Swans Shares Drive", which they were actually denied to at least try and raise the money.
I would have thought that would make their case stronger not weaker.
My biggest single disappointment with the Trust is the lack of "Communication of the truth of the Takeover, ie no investment" to all the fans.
I suggested a leaflet handout the day Phil released his report and nothing has been done since then.
I still do not understand why it wasn't carried out immediately and they can't use the excuse of not wanting to alienat the new owners as all they were doing was telling the FACTS as they are. |
"If the Trust had been involved from the start, as it should have been"
I agree with you. And whose fault was it that they weren't?
As to raising £70 million when we can't even get more than about 1500 Swans fans to pay £10 a year to join the Trust - please tell us how? | | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:01 - Dec 6 with 1390 views | TheResurrection |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:53 - Dec 6 by Pegojack |
Chris, I don't think there's a millimetre of difference between you and me on our opinion of the sellouts, and not much difference between our opinion of the Cooze episode. I think the Trust f*cked up there.
There should never have been any question of the supporters' director being paid a salary for occupying that position, or for having any business interests dependent on the patronage of the club. It's a straightforward conflict of interests. The Trust took their eye off the ball, they've admitted it, apologized and put measures in place to prevent it ever happening again.
Where we part company is blaming the Trust for what's happened regarding the takeover. The first one in 2015 was defeated purely by the intervention of the Trust. The sellouts deliberately kept the second one secret to prevent their deal being scuppered again. The sellouts have also resisted and ignored all efforts by the Trust to boost our shareholding to 25% to protect our voting rights.
You say now is the time to 'put our foot down'. What do you mean? What do you propose? Spell it out. |
To get a nasty bastard law firm to get stuck into legal action and ramp up the Trust’s profile and plight in the media. Basically all out war!!
And no Mike, I will never accept that viewpoint — that’s a weak argument. Ask yourself this, if someone who had no ties to the Club, didn’t rely on an income from them and basically didn’t give a shit about offending them had been our Supporters Director, do you think the Sell-Outs would have had such a free ride??
Believe you me, had it been me, just for example, I’d have been all over them and going public with every minute detail.
The apology from the Trust can only go so far with me — they were warned!! And they did NOTHING about it!!!! Now we are where we are!!
And yes, I know they’re all good guys who mean well, so I’m not wanting to hang them out to dry, but still, this needs saying!!! |  |
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:07 - Dec 6 with 1372 views | DafyddHuw |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:54 - Dec 6 by LeonWasGod |
Largely agree with that Mon other than about damage to relationships. Huw is very much part of the current regime too as the Americans appear to be deferring to him on occassion (or at least 'learning' from him). Dineen too. Given that those two are the day-to-day face of the board, it would very much be a case of damaging current relations if the Trust took action.
Which is probably why nothing has happened.
Agree with your sentiments and frustrations though. Very much so, as I'd hope all fans do. |
"Given that those two are the day-to-day face of the board, it would very much be a case of damaging current relations if the Trust took action. "
Damaging current relations? The new/old owners irretrievably damaged current relations when they did the dirty. And still the Trust thinks that they can work with them?
You couldn't make it up. |  | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:09 - Dec 6 with 1364 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:57 - Dec 6 by Pegojack |
"If the Trust had been involved from the start, as it should have been"
I agree with you. And whose fault was it that they weren't?
As to raising £70 million when we can't even get more than about 1500 Swans fans to pay £10 a year to join the Trust - please tell us how? |
Now you are being a little naive, nobody would suggest trying to buy ALL the shares offered, just sufficient to give them a bit more say in the matters.
The other thing that they were denied, which should also stengthen their case was the transfer of voting rights.
They had no opportunity to argue against that happening.
How big a drive have the trust made to get more to join?
I haven't seen anything in the press, I haven't seen leaflets as I suggested on the gates, I haven't seen anything like a 2 minute TV add or big banners outside the Grounds.
ie, musn't upset the new owners, sorry not good enough, because I am on here I signed up, myself, my son and both grandsons, but the number of fans on here is miniscule compared to the whole fan base, even the just the local fan base and even the old hard core fan base. | | | |
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:16 - Dec 6 with 1340 views | Landore_Jack |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:09 - Dec 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
Now you are being a little naive, nobody would suggest trying to buy ALL the shares offered, just sufficient to give them a bit more say in the matters.
The other thing that they were denied, which should also stengthen their case was the transfer of voting rights.
They had no opportunity to argue against that happening.
How big a drive have the trust made to get more to join?
I haven't seen anything in the press, I haven't seen leaflets as I suggested on the gates, I haven't seen anything like a 2 minute TV add or big banners outside the Grounds.
ie, musn't upset the new owners, sorry not good enough, because I am on here I signed up, myself, my son and both grandsons, but the number of fans on here is miniscule compared to the whole fan base, even the just the local fan base and even the old hard core fan base. |
The Trust had the opportunity to talk to Sky Sports but this was declined. The Trust needs to be more vocal. There are a large number of fans that are not aware of the situation. Holding fans forums and releasing statements via their website is not enough. I would like the Trust to hand out leaflets on match days, put up posters in shops or pubs, conduct interviews on tv. The message needs to be drummed in to the fans. Peaceful protests will help as long as it is not done during game time. [Post edited 6 Dec 2016 12:24]
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:18 - Dec 6 with 1334 views | max936 |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:09 - Dec 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
Now you are being a little naive, nobody would suggest trying to buy ALL the shares offered, just sufficient to give them a bit more say in the matters.
The other thing that they were denied, which should also stengthen their case was the transfer of voting rights.
They had no opportunity to argue against that happening.
How big a drive have the trust made to get more to join?
I haven't seen anything in the press, I haven't seen leaflets as I suggested on the gates, I haven't seen anything like a 2 minute TV add or big banners outside the Grounds.
ie, musn't upset the new owners, sorry not good enough, because I am on here I signed up, myself, my son and both grandsons, but the number of fans on here is miniscule compared to the whole fan base, even the just the local fan base and even the old hard core fan base. |
Agree with that the Trust have to become more Pro-Active and get it out there as to what has happened, Swansea Sound Wales On-line etc, give out leaflets on Match Days got round pubs and put leaflets on their bars etc, I'm sure there'll be plenty willing to help, myself for one. |  |
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:18 - Dec 6 with 1361 views | Murph75 |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:09 - Dec 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
Now you are being a little naive, nobody would suggest trying to buy ALL the shares offered, just sufficient to give them a bit more say in the matters.
The other thing that they were denied, which should also stengthen their case was the transfer of voting rights.
They had no opportunity to argue against that happening.
How big a drive have the trust made to get more to join?
I haven't seen anything in the press, I haven't seen leaflets as I suggested on the gates, I haven't seen anything like a 2 minute TV add or big banners outside the Grounds.
ie, musn't upset the new owners, sorry not good enough, because I am on here I signed up, myself, my son and both grandsons, but the number of fans on here is miniscule compared to the whole fan base, even the just the local fan base and even the old hard core fan base. |
They've been sitting on their hands whilst Rome burns. | | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:21 - Dec 6 with 1352 views | LeonWasGod |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 11:50 - Dec 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
I would like to get some clarity on one thing you have said, "What Phil pointed out about the sale to the Americans, and what most of you seem to be ignoring, is that the Supporters Trust didn't have the funds to buy any meaningful amount of those shares even if the Articles of Association were abided by, and the shares were offered to us. Probably not more than about 1%. Do you realize that this fact could seriously weaken our case in a court of law in terms of compensation or redress?"
If the Trust had been involved from the start as it should have been then they would have had many Months to create a "save the Swans Shares Drive", which they were actually denied to at least try and raise the money.
I would have thought that would make their case stronger not weaker.
My biggest single disappointment with the Trust is the lack of "Communication of the truth of the Takeover, ie no investment" to all the fans.
I suggested a leaflet handout the day Phil released his report and nothing has been done since then.
I still do not understand why it wasn't carried out immediately and they can't use the excuse of not wanting to alienat the new owners as all they were doing was telling the FACTS as they are. |
The lack of investment has been communicated to the Trust's members, as have the issues with the Shareholders Agreement (both the original one, and the new one that the Trust haven't signed). The Trust is answerable to its members, but as this information was distributed via publicly available platforms (their website and Twitter) the information is available for anyone to know.
The press articles when the takeover was first mooted also outlined the likely make-up of the deal - ie. it was principally to buy-out the former directors. Although the articles speculated there may be a little bit of money available for the playing side and infrastructure, it's was pretty obvious at the time that it was going to be business as usual (scrimping and saving and making do). It's always been clear it's an investment for them, but not into the club imo.
Personally, I wouldn't see the value in a mass communication campaign to tell people what they've already been told through websites, social media and the local press. But that's just my take. | | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:22 - Dec 6 with 1347 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:18 - Dec 6 by Murph75 |
They've been sitting on their hands whilst Rome burns. |
Not "fiddling" then, no violins involved? | | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:27 - Dec 6 with 1335 views | TheResurrection |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:21 - Dec 6 by LeonWasGod |
The lack of investment has been communicated to the Trust's members, as have the issues with the Shareholders Agreement (both the original one, and the new one that the Trust haven't signed). The Trust is answerable to its members, but as this information was distributed via publicly available platforms (their website and Twitter) the information is available for anyone to know.
The press articles when the takeover was first mooted also outlined the likely make-up of the deal - ie. it was principally to buy-out the former directors. Although the articles speculated there may be a little bit of money available for the playing side and infrastructure, it's was pretty obvious at the time that it was going to be business as usual (scrimping and saving and making do). It's always been clear it's an investment for them, but not into the club imo.
Personally, I wouldn't see the value in a mass communication campaign to tell people what they've already been told through websites, social media and the local press. But that's just my take. |
Stop talking absolute shite and putting crap like this out there in the public domain.
You are just hindering proceedings when we need more profile FFS.
It's shite like this that has got us to where we are now!!! | |
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:29 - Dec 6 with 1326 views | Murph75 |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:22 - Dec 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
Not "fiddling" then, no violins involved? |
Fiddling would imply they've made some kind of movement. | | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:43 - Dec 6 with 1273 views | DafyddHuw |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:16 - Dec 6 by Landore_Jack |
The Trust had the opportunity to talk to Sky Sports but this was declined. The Trust needs to be more vocal. There are a large number of fans that are not aware of the situation. Holding fans forums and releasing statements via their website is not enough. I would like the Trust to hand out leaflets on match days, put up posters in shops or pubs, conduct interviews on tv. The message needs to be drummed in to the fans. Peaceful protests will help as long as it is not done during game time. [Post edited 6 Dec 2016 12:24]
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Mustn't upset the new owners mun | | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:44 - Dec 6 with 1267 views | Murph75 |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:43 - Dec 6 by DafyddHuw |
Mustn't upset the new owners mun |
I get that impression. | | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:54 - Dec 6 with 1249 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:29 - Dec 6 by Murph75 |
Fiddling would imply they've made some kind of movement. |
Ouch. | | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:00 - Dec 6 with 1241 views | Gowerjack |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 12:21 - Dec 6 by LeonWasGod |
The lack of investment has been communicated to the Trust's members, as have the issues with the Shareholders Agreement (both the original one, and the new one that the Trust haven't signed). The Trust is answerable to its members, but as this information was distributed via publicly available platforms (their website and Twitter) the information is available for anyone to know.
The press articles when the takeover was first mooted also outlined the likely make-up of the deal - ie. it was principally to buy-out the former directors. Although the articles speculated there may be a little bit of money available for the playing side and infrastructure, it's was pretty obvious at the time that it was going to be business as usual (scrimping and saving and making do). It's always been clear it's an investment for them, but not into the club imo.
Personally, I wouldn't see the value in a mass communication campaign to tell people what they've already been told through websites, social media and the local press. But that's just my take. |
Your'e missing the point.
Apart from the at most 500 fans who use the various fan websites most believe that £100 million was invested into the football club.
We've even got former players saying as much on the radio FFS.
We need a concerted fan driven campaign ( leaflets, websites,posters etc etc) to highlight what is happening to our club and the Trust aint gonna do it.
We need to organise and do this OURSELVES.
Now who's up for it? |  |
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:02 - Dec 6 with 1235 views | Murph75 |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:00 - Dec 6 by Gowerjack |
Your'e missing the point.
Apart from the at most 500 fans who use the various fan websites most believe that £100 million was invested into the football club.
We've even got former players saying as much on the radio FFS.
We need a concerted fan driven campaign ( leaflets, websites,posters etc etc) to highlight what is happening to our club and the Trust aint gonna do it.
We need to organise and do this OURSELVES.
Now who's up for it? |
Count me in.
Lets arrange a date and a place and see who turns up? I've got a fair bit of time on my hands after next week so happy to make the necessary arrangements. | | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:21 - Dec 6 with 1185 views | Landore_Jack |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:00 - Dec 6 by Gowerjack |
Your'e missing the point.
Apart from the at most 500 fans who use the various fan websites most believe that £100 million was invested into the football club.
We've even got former players saying as much on the radio FFS.
We need a concerted fan driven campaign ( leaflets, websites,posters etc etc) to highlight what is happening to our club and the Trust aint gonna do it.
We need to organise and do this OURSELVES.
Now who's up for it? |
Maybe we should get this group involved?
https://twitter.com/NBankAlliance | |
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:22 - Dec 6 with 1179 views | Darran |
Yeah they've gone quiet haven't they? |  |
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:22 - Dec 6 with 1175 views | costalotta |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:02 - Dec 6 by Murph75 |
Count me in.
Lets arrange a date and a place and see who turns up? I've got a fair bit of time on my hands after next week so happy to make the necessary arrangements. |
I'd like to help. |  | | |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:23 - Dec 6 with 1173 views | swancity |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 10:24 - Dec 6 by costalotta |
For sure...
It simply has to happen pretty soon IMO. The longer it's left the more apathy there will be and the less impact it will make. [Post edited 6 Dec 2016 10:25]
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Exactly, plus it's having a knock on effect which is damaging the atmosphere at games and is consequently detrimental to our objectives on the pitch. Just get on with it. Time to take some action now legally or otherwise. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:30 - Dec 6 with 1153 views | Murph75 |
| Swans Trust Meeting on 13:22 - Dec 6 by Darran |
Yeah they've gone quiet haven't they? |
Forgotten their password. | | | |
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