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Sorry we can’t bring any more than this at the moment, but it’s only fair we place on record we are told the club are about to make an announcement. It would be wrong to speculate any further at this time.
This post has been edited by an administrator
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
Club announcement pending on 19:31 - Jul 21 by Dr_Winston
I don't, and never have, believed for a second that the club would insist on £3.5m. They'd probably have taken whatever the cost for for a likely replacement. Far from convinced that we particularly wanted him to sign a new deal either. Might have offered him an extension on the same terms for forms sake, but no more than that.
More likely that he just wasn't wanted. By anyone. Including us.
Why are you so sure that the club wouldnt want to keep him? We know you were not a fan and yes the football was not a la Roberto,Brendan or Laudrup but for two consecutive seasons he got us into the play offs we won more matches than we lost he got results....thats what matters to the owners
He also enabled to borrow players such as Brewster,Cllagher,Guehi,Woodman,Gibbs-White..the much talked of significant signing we expected this week is now off as Cooper is no longer here..why would the club want to lose that?
Take off the fan hat and the blinkered view and think logically..... Cooper was doing well for the club on the cheap and that included his below market value salary.....none of us really know what happened with the Palace and Fulham jobs but £3.5M is a hefty sum....how are you so sure the club wouldnt insist on it? WE have history rememebr Gylfi and the transfer fee the yanks stood solid until he threw his toys out of the pram. You like many others are letting your dislike and opinion of Cooper to establish a scenario which is far removed form actuality. NOne of really know what has gone on but I suspect the relationship has been in meltdown since the turn of the year...the club didnt want to lose him...and even the relationship was in disarray they probably did satnd firm on the compo as I said the AMericans have previous....If he wasnt wanted why were they happy for him to spend the last two weeks taking preseason?...he could have been gone two weeks ago
Cooper has been labelled as a fraud ...someoen who does not know what he is doing....yet in his first season in senior management he gets his team albeit by the skin of the teeth to the playoffs, in his second season he achieves the highest position finish and record points this club has achieved in this division....he has been compared to Monk....Monk didnt even survive a second season as he was failing Cooper improved season on season,Compare him to Thomas Frank who led Brentford to victory over us in the playoff final ...Frank had six years more experience than Cooper managing at senior level...in his first season at Brentford ( Potters season) Brentford finished 11th a place below us the next season they finished 3rd losing in the final as we know this last season they again finished3rd so no positional improvement and winning 24 games the same as previous season yet Cooper a rookie manager and a fraud improved our finishing position from 6th to 4th and we won 23 matches ( one less than our rivals Brentford) 5 more than the previous season not bad for a manager who didnt set out to win matches and look to nick a goal...SO why wouldnt we ant to keep him?
Club announcement pending on 09:04 - Jul 22 by vetchonian
Why are you so sure that the club wouldnt want to keep him? We know you were not a fan and yes the football was not a la Roberto,Brendan or Laudrup but for two consecutive seasons he got us into the play offs we won more matches than we lost he got results....thats what matters to the owners
He also enabled to borrow players such as Brewster,Cllagher,Guehi,Woodman,Gibbs-White..the much talked of significant signing we expected this week is now off as Cooper is no longer here..why would the club want to lose that?
Take off the fan hat and the blinkered view and think logically..... Cooper was doing well for the club on the cheap and that included his below market value salary.....none of us really know what happened with the Palace and Fulham jobs but £3.5M is a hefty sum....how are you so sure the club wouldnt insist on it? WE have history rememebr Gylfi and the transfer fee the yanks stood solid until he threw his toys out of the pram. You like many others are letting your dislike and opinion of Cooper to establish a scenario which is far removed form actuality. NOne of really know what has gone on but I suspect the relationship has been in meltdown since the turn of the year...the club didnt want to lose him...and even the relationship was in disarray they probably did satnd firm on the compo as I said the AMericans have previous....If he wasnt wanted why were they happy for him to spend the last two weeks taking preseason?...he could have been gone two weeks ago
Cooper has been labelled as a fraud ...someoen who does not know what he is doing....yet in his first season in senior management he gets his team albeit by the skin of the teeth to the playoffs, in his second season he achieves the highest position finish and record points this club has achieved in this division....he has been compared to Monk....Monk didnt even survive a second season as he was failing Cooper improved season on season,Compare him to Thomas Frank who led Brentford to victory over us in the playoff final ...Frank had six years more experience than Cooper managing at senior level...in his first season at Brentford ( Potters season) Brentford finished 11th a place below us the next season they finished 3rd losing in the final as we know this last season they again finished3rd so no positional improvement and winning 24 games the same as previous season yet Cooper a rookie manager and a fraud improved our finishing position from 6th to 4th and we won 23 matches ( one less than our rivals Brentford) 5 more than the previous season not bad for a manager who didnt set out to win matches and look to nick a goal...SO why wouldnt we ant to keep him?
Because for some reason certain people hated the bloke and can’t stand the fact that they weren’t able to say he was sacked or that we didn’t want him. Some of the mental gymnastics taking place should really have its own event in this years Olympics.
By pretending that the club and nobody else wanted him they sort of get the satisfaction they have been craving, even though everything points to the opposite.
But since when did reality matter when there is a vendetta to feed?
The reality of it all however is that he will always remain one of our most successful managers at this level. We didn’t have one bad season.
Just a fact.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 9:12]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 06:52 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus
But you missed out Winters insistence that they tried to get him to sign a new contract. Which of course means the club wanted him to stay.
You also skirted over the fact that the only place where “Cooper touted himself around”, came from posters on this forum and not echoed or reported anywhere.
You also said he went for the Fulham job even though that isn’t reported anywhere either. The only reports were that they wanted him but wouldn’t pay the £3m asking price. Same as Palace. Also important to note he didn’t approach them, it wasn’t an application on Seek - they wanted to speak to him. That’s not touting yourself, simply by definition that’s wrong.
I don’t really have a perspective other than the most likely series of events given we now know for a fact the club tried to keep him here and that the reports were that Fulham and Palace wanted him but wouldn’t pay the £3m.
This whole “touted himself around”, “club wanted rid of him all summer”, “neither Palace or Fulham wanted him” is simply created from posters on this forum who admit knowing nothing. Absolutely nothing points to those being the correct assumptions at all, in fact everything points to the opposite.
He was approached (he didn’t tout himself), the club wanted to keep him (not wanting rid of him) and both Palace and Fulham wanted him but wouldn’t pay the compo (not both tossing him aside).
There has been some incredibly dishonest framing of things all summer. We both know that, these are just the main three, there have been many more.
If Swansea were happy to offload him for free then they would have done so at a no expense agreement right at the end of the season. We didn’t do that because we wanted to keep him, anyone who came in for him we clearly demanded money for (as reported absolutely everywhere). There is no need for the mental gymnastics to try and create a completely different scenario which doesn’t really make much sense just to paint a negative light towards Cooper.
I posted the timeline and it’s clear. No need for me to add my own spin or an alternate summary, all I did was posted the dates and the reports and the story tells itself.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 7:00]
Ok. Just in bullet points as we won’t agree here.
Winters quote was along the lines of ‘we tried to engage him in conversation about a new contract’. No mention of when that was or what it would have looked like. I’m not arguing they wanted him gone before they knew he was dead set on leaving.
You’re doing yourself a disservice if you’re implying he didn’t go for the Fulham job.
He knew he was going to be leaving this job before the season started. Of course he touted himself about. I would do exactly the same in that scenario.
We don’t know when the relationship broke down and this is probably the crux of where we differ. I don’t believe it only happened after we allegedly demanded £3m for him and potentially scuppered a job.
I believe 1. It broke down long before that. The January window and our refusal to substantially improve his contract in April could be trigger points.
2. Winter is too shrewd not to have seen this as a potential outcome and would not have put significant obstacles in his way.
I just can’t buy the fact that we would demand £3m for a guy we knew had his heart set on leaving and then end up with a mutual consent a few weeks later.
Cooper was in the driving seat if he always had this up his sleeve. Why would he need a mutual consent on his CV if he got the Palace or Fulham job? He had nothing to lose by waiting until they didn’t happen.
Made sense for him to sit it out. Also made sense for us to try the same trick we managed with Sousa.
No real financial advantage of doing it now rather than after the playoffs.
There is obviously a big disadvantage that the new guy is coming in 2 weeks before the season starts, which concerns me.
Biggest concern, without wishing to shitstir as I have no insider knowledge is why he chose to walk without having another job lined up.
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Club announcement pending on 11:06 - Jul 22 with 1019 views
Club announcement pending on 10:28 - Jul 22 by jack247
Ok. Just in bullet points as we won’t agree here.
Winters quote was along the lines of ‘we tried to engage him in conversation about a new contract’. No mention of when that was or what it would have looked like. I’m not arguing they wanted him gone before they knew he was dead set on leaving.
You’re doing yourself a disservice if you’re implying he didn’t go for the Fulham job.
He knew he was going to be leaving this job before the season started. Of course he touted himself about. I would do exactly the same in that scenario.
We don’t know when the relationship broke down and this is probably the crux of where we differ. I don’t believe it only happened after we allegedly demanded £3m for him and potentially scuppered a job.
I believe 1. It broke down long before that. The January window and our refusal to substantially improve his contract in April could be trigger points.
2. Winter is too shrewd not to have seen this as a potential outcome and would not have put significant obstacles in his way.
I just can’t buy the fact that we would demand £3m for a guy we knew had his heart set on leaving and then end up with a mutual consent a few weeks later.
Cooper was in the driving seat if he always had this up his sleeve. Why would he need a mutual consent on his CV if he got the Palace or Fulham job? He had nothing to lose by waiting until they didn’t happen.
Made sense for him to sit it out. Also made sense for us to try the same trick we managed with Sousa.
No real financial advantage of doing it now rather than after the playoffs.
There is obviously a big disadvantage that the new guy is coming in 2 weeks before the season starts, which concerns me.
Biggest concern, without wishing to shitstir as I have no insider knowledge is why he chose to walk without having another job lined up.
It’s a game of linguistics, a game that is being very thoughtfully played by those who dislike Cooper.
Reading Winters comments it doesn’t look like they ever “wanted him gone”, that would imply some sort of pro active desire. It sounds like more of a reluctant acceptance doesn’t it. It’s not the same thing at all as “wanting him gone”.
Saying “he went for the Fulham job” implies he applied for it. If you are saying there was mutual interest there, then I may agree. But in your attempts to make out he was touting himself about you ensure that you say such like as “he went for it”. So I don’t agree there, and neither do the reports.
I don’t think he did know he was leaving, you have guessed that. I think he fully intended on staying here, until they scuppered the moves to bigger clubs by demanding unreasonable compensation for a manager with less than a year left on his contact (again as per the reports).
The reports are pretty clear, as are Winters comments. It doesn’t sound like much of a complex situation at all.
You wish to stray from those reports for some reason and create your own scenario, which you are entitled to do. I just can’t understand why you would want to...
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 11:23]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 11:06 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus
It’s a game of linguistics, a game that is being very thoughtfully played by those who dislike Cooper.
Reading Winters comments it doesn’t look like they ever “wanted him gone”, that would imply some sort of pro active desire. It sounds like more of a reluctant acceptance doesn’t it. It’s not the same thing at all as “wanting him gone”.
Saying “he went for the Fulham job” implies he applied for it. If you are saying there was mutual interest there, then I may agree. But in your attempts to make out he was touting himself about you ensure that you say such like as “he went for it”. So I don’t agree there, and neither do the reports.
I don’t think he did know he was leaving, you have guessed that. I think he fully intended on staying here, until they scuppered the moves to bigger clubs by demanding unreasonable compensation for a manager with less than a year left on his contact (again as per the reports).
The reports are pretty clear, as are Winters comments. It doesn’t sound like much of a complex situation at all.
You wish to stray from those reports for some reason and create your own scenario, which you are entitled to do. I just can’t understand why you would want to...
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 11:23]
The main disagreement here is you think everything was rosy until we asked for £3m for Cooper which may or may not have stopped him moving on.
I think the disharmony came way before that and despite rating him as a manager, Winter and his bosses would have been more than happy for Palace or Fulham to take him off our hands.
We’re just going to have to disagree there. Nothing in here, from when he starts getting questioned about next season does anything other than reinforce my view. He doesn’t want to answer questions on backing from the club or his own future. This looks like a man on his way out to me.
Other than that, you just seem to dislike my language around Cooper. ‘Touting himself out’ - making it abundantly clear to potential employers he was willing to leave Swansea. I doubt it was just those two, they just showed interest. I’d be amazed if his name wasn’t being circulated around PL and Championship clubs.
‘Went for it’ re. The Fulham job. Of course he did. Of course there was mutual interest. We both agreed the sounding out procedure a few weeks ago. I’m not suggesting he applied on monster jobs or approached them with no encouragement.
‘Club wanted him out all summer’ Certainly from that press conference at the very latest. I doubt that was just a reaction to a tough defeat at the end of a long season. Very much looked like his future had been discussed prior to the game to me.
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Club announcement pending on 12:30 - Jul 22 with 960 views
Club announcement pending on 11:58 - Jul 22 by jack247
The main disagreement here is you think everything was rosy until we asked for £3m for Cooper which may or may not have stopped him moving on.
I think the disharmony came way before that and despite rating him as a manager, Winter and his bosses would have been more than happy for Palace or Fulham to take him off our hands.
We’re just going to have to disagree there. Nothing in here, from when he starts getting questioned about next season does anything other than reinforce my view. He doesn’t want to answer questions on backing from the club or his own future. This looks like a man on his way out to me.
Other than that, you just seem to dislike my language around Cooper. ‘Touting himself out’ - making it abundantly clear to potential employers he was willing to leave Swansea. I doubt it was just those two, they just showed interest. I’d be amazed if his name wasn’t being circulated around PL and Championship clubs.
‘Went for it’ re. The Fulham job. Of course he did. Of course there was mutual interest. We both agreed the sounding out procedure a few weeks ago. I’m not suggesting he applied on monster jobs or approached them with no encouragement.
‘Club wanted him out all summer’ Certainly from that press conference at the very latest. I doubt that was just a reaction to a tough defeat at the end of a long season. Very much looked like his future had been discussed prior to the game to me.
Shall we try putting this one to bed as in fact both arguements are very close .
The sticking point is around the "allegation" the club wanted Cooper out didnt want him to stay.
Looking at all the facts, and the discussions, I doubt the club really wanted to lose Cooper for all the reason that have been discussed. I also believe the relationship broke down around the January window when we didnt go for the No9s out firward by Cooper and Scott, and the two "cut price" Americans were foisted on us though Whittaker was thrown in ( again cheap...but as Scott said in his interview he was one for the future). Cooper probably believed this was not going to ensure promotion which means he lost on binuses and new pay deal.....the pay deal talks were stalled or not as favourable as Cooper hoped or believed he was worth. Things I guess were strained and when Palace and Fulham came calling this was seen as by both sides as an opportunity to resolve what was becoming a "difficult" situation. I htink it is a liitle strong to state Cooper was touting himself around given his name was linked in the media...I suspect given his stock he was on those clubs radar whether or not he was actually interviewed by Fulham who knows? Given that articles state only SIlva was spoken to by Khan it might mean he didnt but then he may have spoken with another club representative at the "filter" stage.
Did the Yanks push for the £3M compo...again none of us know but they have previous as discussed with Gylfi...so this may have been a factor in Coops not getting the job..maybe a combination of his wage demand and the compo Palace or Fulham would pay was not in their thoughts so the options dissappeared.
Had the club wanted him out all summer then there were ways to do so.....garden leave and and a statement 3 or 4 weeks ago once it was known that the tow other posts were a no go.Maybe the yanks thought they hold the upper hand...why walk from a job with no where to go? Maybe they hoped they could reach a compromise? IT seems Cooper was determined...I know he is not the first person to leave a work situation they are unhappy with with nothing else lined up.....this is usually when the situation has become too bad to continue....as you say this does raise some questions..to which we may never know the answers...but I am sure if the club had wanted him out all summer they would have had a ready plan B should plan A ( Palace/Fulham) fail to impement swiftly.
Club announcement pending on 11:58 - Jul 22 by jack247
The main disagreement here is you think everything was rosy until we asked for £3m for Cooper which may or may not have stopped him moving on.
I think the disharmony came way before that and despite rating him as a manager, Winter and his bosses would have been more than happy for Palace or Fulham to take him off our hands.
We’re just going to have to disagree there. Nothing in here, from when he starts getting questioned about next season does anything other than reinforce my view. He doesn’t want to answer questions on backing from the club or his own future. This looks like a man on his way out to me.
Other than that, you just seem to dislike my language around Cooper. ‘Touting himself out’ - making it abundantly clear to potential employers he was willing to leave Swansea. I doubt it was just those two, they just showed interest. I’d be amazed if his name wasn’t being circulated around PL and Championship clubs.
‘Went for it’ re. The Fulham job. Of course he did. Of course there was mutual interest. We both agreed the sounding out procedure a few weeks ago. I’m not suggesting he applied on monster jobs or approached them with no encouragement.
‘Club wanted him out all summer’ Certainly from that press conference at the very latest. I doubt that was just a reaction to a tough defeat at the end of a long season. Very much looked like his future had been discussed prior to the game to me.
Rosy? Not quite, January was clearly an issue. I think things were workable, but far from rosy. But having disagreements is pretty normal in football management. It doesn’t mean you push the nuclear button.
As I said, the club wanted him to sign a new contract after the play off final, meaning things only got to such a point afterwards. The only logical thing would be to believe the reports that Cooper wanted to go and clubs were baulking at our compensation demands.
Neither of the above happens (contract talks or asking for large compensation) if the club is more than happy for another club to take him off our hands. I think that’s extremely disingenuous to claim it would. We have no reason to not believe the numerous reports regarding both of these points.
So, It would be strange to stray from that reported and logical series of events and create a scenario that hasn’t been reported anywhere or make much logical sense once examined.
I always have an issue with intentional language that is designed to misrepresent reality. Touting himself out is just nonsense really, petty nonsense. He had a desire to move to a bigger club, bigger clubs wanted him and he was willing to speak to them. That isn’t touting yourself out and I’m sure you are well aware of that too.
Again, “went for it” is something I have a real problem with. “Would have gone?” Sure, maybe. “went for it”? No. He agreed to speak to them possibly.
But they are entirely different things, agreeing to speak to a club that is interested in you and “touting yourself out” couldn’t be further apart. Fulham acted quickly when Parker left and that is reportedly because they wouldn’t pay the £3m compensation fee we were demanding.
Every single player is willing to leave Swansea, they aren’t touting themselves out though. If a bigger club comes in and they speak to them, they still aren’t touting themselves out. It’s language intent to deceive.
As for the interview, you are just hearing what you want to really. At no point does he say anything that confirms the newly created scenario. He’s giving an interview just after he lost at Wembley, he isn’t going to be upbeat.
As for the club wanting him out all summer, it’s just nonsense. Read Winters comments again, they tried to open contract talks in the summer and resigned themselves to the scenario he was leaving a few weeks back. With the season approaching decided they should grant his wish and move on. That is nothing like “the club wanting him out all summer”, again it’s painted in such a ridiculous way.
Absolutely no idea why the same few insist on using this language, there is clearly some personal gratification by doing it though. It’s just weird.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 12:36]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 07:13 - Jul 22 by BillyChong
I gave up reading that when he started complaining about the pitches over here. Were the balls too hard for you as well Paul? Poor dab
Have you already forgotten the embarrassing state our pitch (and others) was in last season? It's a valid complaint there were some shockers around the EFL.
Club announcement pending on 12:34 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus
Rosy? Not quite, January was clearly an issue. I think things were workable, but far from rosy. But having disagreements is pretty normal in football management. It doesn’t mean you push the nuclear button.
As I said, the club wanted him to sign a new contract after the play off final, meaning things only got to such a point afterwards. The only logical thing would be to believe the reports that Cooper wanted to go and clubs were baulking at our compensation demands.
Neither of the above happens (contract talks or asking for large compensation) if the club is more than happy for another club to take him off our hands. I think that’s extremely disingenuous to claim it would. We have no reason to not believe the numerous reports regarding both of these points.
So, It would be strange to stray from that reported and logical series of events and create a scenario that hasn’t been reported anywhere or make much logical sense once examined.
I always have an issue with intentional language that is designed to misrepresent reality. Touting himself out is just nonsense really, petty nonsense. He had a desire to move to a bigger club, bigger clubs wanted him and he was willing to speak to them. That isn’t touting yourself out and I’m sure you are well aware of that too.
Again, “went for it” is something I have a real problem with. “Would have gone?” Sure, maybe. “went for it”? No. He agreed to speak to them possibly.
But they are entirely different things, agreeing to speak to a club that is interested in you and “touting yourself out” couldn’t be further apart. Fulham acted quickly when Parker left and that is reportedly because they wouldn’t pay the £3m compensation fee we were demanding.
Every single player is willing to leave Swansea, they aren’t touting themselves out though. If a bigger club comes in and they speak to them, they still aren’t touting themselves out. It’s language intent to deceive.
As for the interview, you are just hearing what you want to really. At no point does he say anything that confirms the newly created scenario. He’s giving an interview just after he lost at Wembley, he isn’t going to be upbeat.
As for the club wanting him out all summer, it’s just nonsense. Read Winters comments again, they tried to open contract talks in the summer and resigned themselves to the scenario he was leaving a few weeks back. With the season approaching decided they should grant his wish and move on. That is nothing like “the club wanting him out all summer”, again it’s painted in such a ridiculous way.
Absolutely no idea why the same few insist on using this language, there is clearly some personal gratification by doing it though. It’s just weird.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 12:36]
Possibly you’ve been away too long.
Anyone making it abundantly clear they are actively looking to move to another club/job is touting themselves out. I’m sure players agents do it all the time.
Going for it or in the past tense went for it in the context of a job isn’t derogatory.
If you’re watching the second half of that video and not seeing a man who either wants or expects to leave, you’re in a very small minority. Frankly, you’re too intelligent not to understand what’s going on there.
There’s no gratification here. As far as I’m concerned, losing him at this point is the worst possible outcome. My preference would have been for him to stay, failing that I’d have liked someone to have taken him off our hands early on, after that, this to have happened at the end of the season. All would have been preferable to appointing a new manager two weeks before the season starts.
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Club announcement pending on 13:04 - Jul 22 with 889 views
Club announcement pending on 12:51 - Jul 22 by jack247
Possibly you’ve been away too long.
Anyone making it abundantly clear they are actively looking to move to another club/job is touting themselves out. I’m sure players agents do it all the time.
Going for it or in the past tense went for it in the context of a job isn’t derogatory.
If you’re watching the second half of that video and not seeing a man who either wants or expects to leave, you’re in a very small minority. Frankly, you’re too intelligent not to understand what’s going on there.
There’s no gratification here. As far as I’m concerned, losing him at this point is the worst possible outcome. My preference would have been for him to stay, failing that I’d have liked someone to have taken him off our hands early on, after that, this to have happened at the end of the season. All would have been preferable to appointing a new manager two weeks before the season starts.
Whether I’m away or not, touting yourself out will always mean what it means.
Cooper was in no way, shape or form “touting himself out”. He just wasn’t, it’s silly and petty to suggest he was. Rodgers wasn’t touting himself out when he agreed to speak to Liverpool, Martinez wasn’t touting himself out when he spoke to Wigan and Potter wasn’t touting himself out when he spoke to Brighton. Even though by doing so they all made it abundantly clear they were willing to entertain leaving the club.
I didn’t say it was derogatory, I said it’s inaccurate. Going for a job means you are actively applying for the position, I haven’t seen that reported anywhere. I have seen them be interested in him, I have seen Swansea asking for £3m, but yet to read “Cooper going for the Fulham job”. That’s a creation purely from the same group of fans that say such things as “he touted himself out”. He may well have been interested in the project, but that doesn’t mean he touted himself out to them.
Judging a non related scenario which is not verbalised in an interview is entirely subjective. I have seen interviews of numerous players and managers who have just lost a final, many have seemed utterly despondent. Doesn’t mean they are leaving though. If it was clear he wanted out so badly then why would the club try to get him to sign an extension? Makes no sense.
I understand you may not like the situation with him leaving so close to the season beginning. You also aren’t the worst for it. But you do have a penchant for framing situations in the negative when it comes to Cooper, we have discussed it long before today.
You know it’s rife on here as well as I do, from Cooper “losing two play offs” instead of “achieving them”, to “the club wanting him out” as opposed to “the club reluctantly accepting he wanted out” and “nobody wanted him” instead of “nobody wanted to pay £3m for a manager with less than a year on his contract”.
There is clearly some motives with the language constantly being used to avoid giving credit and to paint things in a negative light when possible. It’s classic political language and we have just had 4 years of it in the States so I’m very in tune to people misrepresenting a situation intentionally. Stands out like a sore thumb to me.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 13:05]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 13:04 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus
Whether I’m away or not, touting yourself out will always mean what it means.
Cooper was in no way, shape or form “touting himself out”. He just wasn’t, it’s silly and petty to suggest he was. Rodgers wasn’t touting himself out when he agreed to speak to Liverpool, Martinez wasn’t touting himself out when he spoke to Wigan and Potter wasn’t touting himself out when he spoke to Brighton. Even though by doing so they all made it abundantly clear they were willing to entertain leaving the club.
I didn’t say it was derogatory, I said it’s inaccurate. Going for a job means you are actively applying for the position, I haven’t seen that reported anywhere. I have seen them be interested in him, I have seen Swansea asking for £3m, but yet to read “Cooper going for the Fulham job”. That’s a creation purely from the same group of fans that say such things as “he touted himself out”. He may well have been interested in the project, but that doesn’t mean he touted himself out to them.
Judging a non related scenario which is not verbalised in an interview is entirely subjective. I have seen interviews of numerous players and managers who have just lost a final, many have seemed utterly despondent. Doesn’t mean they are leaving though. If it was clear he wanted out so badly then why would the club try to get him to sign an extension? Makes no sense.
I understand you may not like the situation with him leaving so close to the season beginning. You also aren’t the worst for it. But you do have a penchant for framing situations in the negative when it comes to Cooper, we have discussed it long before today.
You know it’s rife on here as well as I do, from Cooper “losing two play offs” instead of “achieving them”, to “the club wanting him out” as opposed to “the club reluctantly accepting he wanted out” and “nobody wanted him” instead of “nobody wanted to pay £3m for a manager with less than a year on his contract”.
There is clearly some motives with the language constantly being used to avoid giving credit and to paint things in a negative light when possible. It’s classic political language and we have just had 4 years of it in the States so I’m very in tune to people misrepresenting a situation intentionally. Stands out like a sore thumb to me.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 13:05]
I don’t need a performance review. ‘You’re not the worst for it’ is simple, passive aggressive, patronising language, which strikes me as slightly hypocritical given you’re upset about the wording people are using towards Cooper.
As for the £3m part, you believe the club demanded it, I don’t. Having watched that video, I’d be extremely concerned if I was one of the owners and Winter had priced Cooper out of a move having watched him avoid the question about backing from the board, then answered questions about what he would do when he returned from the summer by referring to ‘this group of players’ in the third person and being careful not to mention himself.
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Club announcement pending on 13:33 - Jul 22 with 845 views
Club announcement pending on 13:26 - Jul 22 by jack247
I don’t need a performance review. ‘You’re not the worst for it’ is simple, passive aggressive, patronising language, which strikes me as slightly hypocritical given you’re upset about the wording people are using towards Cooper.
As for the £3m part, you believe the club demanded it, I don’t. Having watched that video, I’d be extremely concerned if I was one of the owners and Winter had priced Cooper out of a move having watched him avoid the question about backing from the board, then answered questions about what he would do when he returned from the summer by referring to ‘this group of players’ in the third person and being careful not to mention himself.
It’s not a performance review, just a fact. Many on here live to frame every scenario in the negative, from not playing Declan John, to not winning the league to the club not wanting him. You name a scenario and it’s probably been flipped on it’s head, done a dozen 360’s and some shape shifting to arrive at the most bizarrely negative angle possible.
I’m not being aggressive, be that passive or otherwise and am certainly not upset. I just like honesty and it’s clear some of the ways people are approaching situations are far from honest and I am pointing that out. I’ll always do that.
As for the £3m situation, it was put in his contract for a reason. The reports are there for a reason. Winter confirmed we still very much wanted him to stay after the play offs, again for a reason. There would be no reason at all to try and frame it as anything else when these are the things that have been widely accepted.
Winter tried to open contract negations with him after your interview. What you appear to see, he didn’t.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 13:47]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 13:33 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus
It’s not a performance review, just a fact. Many on here live to frame every scenario in the negative, from not playing Declan John, to not winning the league to the club not wanting him. You name a scenario and it’s probably been flipped on it’s head, done a dozen 360’s and some shape shifting to arrive at the most bizarrely negative angle possible.
I’m not being aggressive, be that passive or otherwise and am certainly not upset. I just like honesty and it’s clear some of the ways people are approaching situations are far from honest and I am pointing that out. I’ll always do that.
As for the £3m situation, it was put in his contract for a reason. The reports are there for a reason. Winter confirmed we still very much wanted him to stay after the play offs, again for a reason. There would be no reason at all to try and frame it as anything else when these are the things that have been widely accepted.
Winter tried to open contract negations with him after your interview. What you appear to see, he didn’t.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 13:47]
‘You’re not the worst of them’ is passive aggressive and it’s patronising. That’s not up for debate. It’s not important, just hypocritical.
Winters statement was very vague ‘made efforts to open dialogue’ or words to that effect. I don’t think he even confirmed when that was.
Playing devils advocate though, if he hasn’t seen what I have in that video, this isn’t hindsight plenty were saying it at the time, he’s potentially cost the club both financially and in terms of being managerless this close to the season. That would be rank incompetence.
To reiterate though, I don’t believe we’ve seriously expected or wanted him to stay this summer. He was gone the minute the final whistle blew. Token efforts that didn’t even lead to a serious discussion dont change that.
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Club announcement pending on 14:05 - Jul 22 with 811 views
Club announcement pending on 13:56 - Jul 22 by jack247
‘You’re not the worst of them’ is passive aggressive and it’s patronising. That’s not up for debate. It’s not important, just hypocritical.
Winters statement was very vague ‘made efforts to open dialogue’ or words to that effect. I don’t think he even confirmed when that was.
Playing devils advocate though, if he hasn’t seen what I have in that video, this isn’t hindsight plenty were saying it at the time, he’s potentially cost the club both financially and in terms of being managerless this close to the season. That would be rank incompetence.
To reiterate though, I don’t believe we’ve seriously expected or wanted him to stay this summer. He was gone the minute the final whistle blew. Token efforts that didn’t even lead to a serious discussion dont change that.
How is that passive aggressive or patronising? It is up for debate as I am the one typing it, only I can know what my intentions are with my words and I am telling you I am not being either. If you feel like I am then you are interpreting my words incorrectly, it’s that simple.
You aren’t the worst of them, did you want me to lie and say you were? I’m confused as to your point. Mine is that this sort of language has become rife on here, many dabble in it continuously on every subject they can. To your credit, you only do it now and again, but you do it and am sure you are well aware of it, which is a shame.
Wales Online reported that they tried to open negotiations after the play off final, Winter backed that up by insisting they tried to get him to sign a new contract. We would again have to do a bit of gymnastics to try and claim everyone was trying to trick us for no apparent reason and was actually not recently. It clearly was this summer.
People were saying Ayew was leaving after his last game season before last when he was non committal on his future after the semi final defeat. It means nothing.
You can reiterate it if you like, but Winter has clearly stated they tried to get him to discuss a new contract. They were clearly serious, they weren’t trying to get a manager who just finished 4th on 80points to sign a new contract for a joke.
No idea why you would think he’s lying to you, what does he have to gain? You are again doing a bit of gymnastics to try and paint another narrative that “Winter wasn’t serious”. Just bizarre.
They didn’t lead to an offer because it sounds like Cooper had zero interest. He wanted to leave is the correct narrative, “the club wanted him out all summer” is not. It’s quite a ridiculous one really.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 14:16]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 14:05 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus
How is that passive aggressive or patronising? It is up for debate as I am the one typing it, only I can know what my intentions are with my words and I am telling you I am not being either. If you feel like I am then you are interpreting my words incorrectly, it’s that simple.
You aren’t the worst of them, did you want me to lie and say you were? I’m confused as to your point. Mine is that this sort of language has become rife on here, many dabble in it continuously on every subject they can. To your credit, you only do it now and again, but you do it and am sure you are well aware of it, which is a shame.
Wales Online reported that they tried to open negotiations after the play off final, Winter backed that up by insisting they tried to get him to sign a new contract. We would again have to do a bit of gymnastics to try and claim everyone was trying to trick us for no apparent reason and was actually not recently. It clearly was this summer.
People were saying Ayew was leaving after his last game season before last when he was non committal on his future after the semi final defeat. It means nothing.
You can reiterate it if you like, but Winter has clearly stated they tried to get him to discuss a new contract. They were clearly serious, they weren’t trying to get a manager who just finished 4th on 80points to sign a new contract for a joke.
No idea why you would think he’s lying to you, what does he have to gain? You are again doing a bit of gymnastics to try and paint another narrative that “Winter wasn’t serious”. Just bizarre.
They didn’t lead to an offer because it sounds like Cooper had zero interest. He wanted to leave is the correct narrative, “the club wanted him out all summer” is not. It’s quite a ridiculous one really.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 14:16]
Right. So when you type things, only you get to judge how those words were intended, when I or others do, you don’t afford the same privilege.
Do you feel Winter is incompetent, based on the fact that what lots on here predicted after seeing how that interview transpired? He obviously had a lot more knowledge of Coopers situation than any of us. He then (according to you) demanded £3m for the man that quite clearly had no intention of being here, costing the club time and money.
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Club announcement pending on 14:26 - Jul 22 with 776 views
Club announcement pending on 14:23 - Jul 22 by jack247
Right. So when you type things, only you get to judge how those words were intended, when I or others do, you don’t afford the same privilege.
Do you feel Winter is incompetent, based on the fact that what lots on here predicted after seeing how that interview transpired? He obviously had a lot more knowledge of Coopers situation than any of us. He then (according to you) demanded £3m for the man that quite clearly had no intention of being here, costing the club time and money.
Winter may well have asked for the money as he was acting on instruction from his paymasters!! They have previous and it is the way of our colonial cousins they like thier contractual clauses and their Santa Clauses
Club announcement pending on 14:23 - Jul 22 by jack247
Right. So when you type things, only you get to judge how those words were intended, when I or others do, you don’t afford the same privilege.
Do you feel Winter is incompetent, based on the fact that what lots on here predicted after seeing how that interview transpired? He obviously had a lot more knowledge of Coopers situation than any of us. He then (according to you) demanded £3m for the man that quite clearly had no intention of being here, costing the club time and money.
Only those who typed them can tell how they are intended yes. If you believe I was patronising you then you are incorrect, there is no more too it than that really. Being offended by something doesn’t mean someone was being offensive.
You are more than welcome to say how you intended the sentence “Cooper touted himself around” and “the club wanted him out all summer”. But I can also point out that the facts of the matter don’t line up with that interpretation regardless of your intent.
“Lots on here” have no baring on anything. Lots on here said it sounded like it was Ayews last game, it wasn’t. Lots on here have made some very wrong judgements based on interviews after defeats. I would think Winter extremely incompetent if he made company altering decisions based on interviews after a defeat, yes.
According to me? Are you accusing me of writing all of the nationwide reports stating that we were demanding £3m for him? You are again doing some disingenuous gymnastics to insinuate this narrative has come from me.
He had no intention of being here according to you, nothing else suggests this. No reports, no subsequent admissions, nothing. It’s completely made to fit a narrative.
Winter tried to open contract talks after (key word) the interview you are putting so much focus on. Clearly your interpretation of it and the clubs were not the same. Reports were far and wide clearly stating that both Fulham and Palace were put off by the asking price.
Cooper then asked to terminate the contract.
You can disagree with all the reports to make your own narrative up if you like. But again, I’m unsure as to why you would want to.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 14:26 - Jul 22 by vetchonian
Winter may well have asked for the money as he was acting on instruction from his paymasters!! They have previous and it is the way of our colonial cousins they like thier contractual clauses and their Santa Clauses
Yes, ok that’s fair. He does have to act on their instruction.
Would you then say they were incompetent? It was blindingly obvious to anyone who watched that video that he had zero intention of being here this season. If he just hasn’t got either job, there’s nothing the club could do about it. If we’ve asked for prohibitively high compensation, then ended up ruining our pre season and paying him off in a scenario that they should have at least considered, I think that’s appalling.
What I actually think happened though, is Palace and Fulham preferred the managers they appointed.
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Club announcement pending on 14:41 - Jul 22 with 752 views
Club announcement pending on 14:26 - Jul 22 by vetchonian
Winter may well have asked for the money as he was acting on instruction from his paymasters!! They have previous and it is the way of our colonial cousins they like thier contractual clauses and their Santa Clauses
Correct. It’s clear as day what has happened here. Anyone who doesn’t think this has all broken down from us holding out for an unreasonable fee is being very naive indeed.
“Shahid Khan is not currently prepared to pay the £3m compensation fee it would require to get Cooper out of his current contract with Swansea City.” ..........
“It is understood that the west London club have been eyeing Cooper as their first choice replacement for Scott Parker for weeks now — though it is thought they’re unwilling to pay the £3.5 million in compensation.”
.........
When asked by a fan whether Cooper was interested in the job, as well as if Fulham would be willing to pay the fee for the Swans boss, Nixon said: “It’s down to the figure… that simple.”
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 14:38 - Jul 22 by jack247
Yes, ok that’s fair. He does have to act on their instruction.
Would you then say they were incompetent? It was blindingly obvious to anyone who watched that video that he had zero intention of being here this season. If he just hasn’t got either job, there’s nothing the club could do about it. If we’ve asked for prohibitively high compensation, then ended up ruining our pre season and paying him off in a scenario that they should have at least considered, I think that’s appalling.
What I actually think happened though, is Palace and Fulham preferred the managers they appointed.
It wasn’t obvious to anyone who watched it though, you are again using creative licence to fit what you want into a narrative.
I watched it all and at no point did I think “that’s it he’s going to quit”. Not even close.
You are ignoring widely reported things on these situations to create your own story. It’s really strange.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 14:33 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus
Only those who typed them can tell how they are intended yes. If you believe I was patronising you then you are incorrect, there is no more too it than that really. Being offended by something doesn’t mean someone was being offensive.
You are more than welcome to say how you intended the sentence “Cooper touted himself around” and “the club wanted him out all summer”. But I can also point out that the facts of the matter don’t line up with that interpretation regardless of your intent.
“Lots on here” have no baring on anything. Lots on here said it sounded like it was Ayews last game, it wasn’t. Lots on here have made some very wrong judgements based on interviews after defeats. I would think Winter extremely incompetent if he made company altering decisions based on interviews after a defeat, yes.
According to me? Are you accusing me of writing all of the nationwide reports stating that we were demanding £3m for him? You are again doing some disingenuous gymnastics to insinuate this narrative has come from me.
He had no intention of being here according to you, nothing else suggests this. No reports, no subsequent admissions, nothing. It’s completely made to fit a narrative.
Winter tried to open contract talks after (key word) the interview you are putting so much focus on. Clearly your interpretation of it and the clubs were not the same. Reports were far and wide clearly stating that both Fulham and Palace were put off by the asking price.
Cooper then asked to terminate the contract.
You can disagree with all the reports to make your own narrative up if you like. But again, I’m unsure as to why you would want to.
So who’s interpretation of events was correct? Mine or the clubs?
Bearing in mind how this ended up and with all the contact with Cooper and knowledge of the situation Winter had, why on earth would we ask for that kind of money?
I saw plenty of reports stating his but out clause was £3.5m/£4.5m depending on which league he went to. I didn’t see any confirming the actual figure we were asking for. Why would that even be publicised by either club for an appointment that didn’t happen?
It’s very, very hard for anyone rational to watch the second half of that video and come to any other conclusion.
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Club announcement pending on 14:55 - Jul 22 with 713 views
Club announcement pending on 14:41 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus
Correct. It’s clear as day what has happened here. Anyone who doesn’t think this has all broken down from us holding out for an unreasonable fee is being very naive indeed.
“Shahid Khan is not currently prepared to pay the £3m compensation fee it would require to get Cooper out of his current contract with Swansea City.” ..........
“It is understood that the west London club have been eyeing Cooper as their first choice replacement for Scott Parker for weeks now — though it is thought they’re unwilling to pay the £3.5 million in compensation.”
.........
When asked by a fan whether Cooper was interested in the job, as well as if Fulham would be willing to pay the fee for the Swans boss, Nixon said: “It’s down to the figure… that simple.”
For completion, as well as the above regarding Fulham. This is regarding Palace:-
“Crystal Palace have been told they must pay £4.5m in compensation fees to prise Steve Cooper and his management team away from Swansea City.”
..........
“Nixon has shed some more light on that situation, revealing that the amount a club would need to pay Barnsley for Ismael is not higher than what would need to be paid to the Swans to appoint Cooper.”
........
“Palace have been linked with Cooper previously, with the Swansea boss having a £3million release fee.
Fulham also expressed interest in Cooper as a potential replacement should Scott Parker leave, but they were unwilling to pay the compensation package.”
The list is endless.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 14:53 - Jul 22 by jack247
So who’s interpretation of events was correct? Mine or the clubs?
Bearing in mind how this ended up and with all the contact with Cooper and knowledge of the situation Winter had, why on earth would we ask for that kind of money?
I saw plenty of reports stating his but out clause was £3.5m/£4.5m depending on which league he went to. I didn’t see any confirming the actual figure we were asking for. Why would that even be publicised by either club for an appointment that didn’t happen?
It’s very, very hard for anyone rational to watch the second half of that video and come to any other conclusion.
I don’t know what you mean by the first line. Your interpretation of events seems to not be based on anything other than to comply with a story you made up. It’s literally the only place it’s typed.
I just explained the compensation. The club clearly thought there was a way forward with Cooper, he is a manager that achieves far more than he should. The reason he was holding out for the compensation was for the same reason he entered the clause in the first place, because that is what he felt he was worth.
Since both clubs baulked at it, as reported everywhere... Cooper clearly has had enough and made it clear he wants out. That is when Winter has accepted and started to put things in place. They have essentially explained this to everyone.
I have very little interest in that interview for the reasons I have already explained. See Andre Ayew for details.
You clearly were not as convinced as you now claim you were, a matter of a week or two ago you were telling us that he will “clearly be here for a while and we need to get behind him”. You were not under the impression that he was quitting either way then, strange you claim to say you were now.
(Edit - some of the articles above state exactly what we were asking).
[Post edited 22 Jul 2021 15:02]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Club announcement pending on 14:38 - Jul 22 by jack247
Yes, ok that’s fair. He does have to act on their instruction.
Would you then say they were incompetent? It was blindingly obvious to anyone who watched that video that he had zero intention of being here this season. If he just hasn’t got either job, there’s nothing the club could do about it. If we’ve asked for prohibitively high compensation, then ended up ruining our pre season and paying him off in a scenario that they should have at least considered, I think that’s appalling.
What I actually think happened though, is Palace and Fulham preferred the managers they appointed.
I have posted my views on the "competancy" of mainly our CEO but also the majority shareholders in several posts over the last few days
As you say in your second paragraph the way it has been handled is appalling there should have been at least a plan B in case Cooper didnt get either job with the "mutual consent" deal prepared with him on gardening leave. Part of me thinks the Yanks are arrogant enough to believe that with no job to go to Cooper would stay and maybe negoiate a new deal.
It could be yes Palace and Fulham did prefer the managers they appointed maybe beacuse they didnt come with a £3M price tag? Who knows for sure only Cooper,Palace, Fulham and WInter
These discussions can keep going round in circles and for weeks on end as we all as individuals interpret the facts available with our own view of the situation dirven by biased thinking What worries me the most is why would Cooper want to walk with no job things must be really bad?
Club announcement pending on 14:55 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus
For completion, as well as the above regarding Fulham. This is regarding Palace:-
“Crystal Palace have been told they must pay £4.5m in compensation fees to prise Steve Cooper and his management team away from Swansea City.”
..........
“Nixon has shed some more light on that situation, revealing that the amount a club would need to pay Barnsley for Ismael is not higher than what would need to be paid to the Swans to appoint Cooper.”
........
“Palace have been linked with Cooper previously, with the Swansea boss having a £3million release fee.
Fulham also expressed interest in Cooper as a potential replacement should Scott Parker leave, but they were unwilling to pay the compensation package.”
The list is endless.
Alleged wages of £200k pa, in the last year of his contract and a release fee of £4.5m - especially if they wanted him out is astounding.
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