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I've taken much interest in this thread, and have concluded that the pro Thatcher posts are in far better English than the anti Thatcher posts.
This, in itself, speaks volumes.
Cudn't a purrit berra misen!
R.I.P. Maggie.
P.S. Thought it amusing to see people singing and dancing in Scotland at news of her death. Not one of them looked above 25 years old which tells a story in itself. Many people showing their colours next week will be an embarrassment to the nation, you can bet on it.
I've taken much interest in this thread, and have concluded that the pro Thatcher posts are in far better English than the anti Thatcher posts.
This, in itself, speaks volumes.
No it doesn't.
For every misspelt rant against Mrs. Thatcher, there will be an equally idiotic one by a Tory boy, who even the staunchest Tory voter could be embarrassed by. If you want the Anti-Thatcher options then seek those who were affected by her and don't let the standards of somebody's English get in the way of their views. Just because they don't have a spell check or the greatest standard of English, it doesn't make them any less human and an asset to this Country. Perhaps it is this clouded and bias outlook by some Conservative supporters that keeps them alienated from some societies, which despite common belief, aren't all the underclass.
I've taken much interest in this thread, and have concluded that the pro Thatcher posts are in far better English than the anti Thatcher posts.
This, in itself, speaks volumes.
Your right,it just shows that some people use spell checker because they are afraid of what people might say if they had made an error and the rest of us dont give a flying pickle.You is what you is simples.Sometimes it makes me wonder if something like a bullet shot from a gun would actually change direction if the target was someone who thought he was better than someone else ha ha...........AND ...I did not use spell checker.
Your right,it just shows that some people use spell checker because they are afraid of what people might say if they had made an error and the rest of us dont give a flying pickle.You is what you is simples.Sometimes it makes me wonder if something like a bullet shot from a gun would actually change direction if the target was someone who thought he was better than someone else ha ha...........AND ...I did not use spell checker.
learn the rule: your / you're
your is a possessive adjective, indicating ownership of something That is your sock. Where is your potato? you're is a contraction (combination) of you and are Do you know what you're doing? You're stupid. The two are not interchangeable. Getting it wrong makes you look stupid. And ugly. http://www.youryoure.com/
And wouldn't a spell checker be something a Witch might use?
your is a possessive adjective, indicating ownership of something That is your sock. Where is your potato? you're is a contraction (combination) of you and are Do you know what you're doing? You're stupid. The two are not interchangeable. Getting it wrong makes you look stupid. And ugly. http://www.youryoure.com/
And wouldn't a spell checker be something a Witch might use?
Obviously didn't live through her time in power but studying politics and some economics, the choices around closing coal mines / steel works etc. was the right one. The production of these good in the UK was no longer competitive in comparison to importing elsewhere. This still continues today, it's cheaper to manufacture goods in China, India, the Philippines etc and import them. People need to move past the parochial view of its British, therfore its better. She also enabled greater home ownership etc when she was PM>
The problem is the legacy of these choices, there was no real implementation of phases that would enable more support for those affected and that did cause problems.
On balance I would say I am pro the decisions taken by her, and I'm not sure she was a bad for the country (as a whole) as some on the left would believe. Interesting fact is that when she took power in 1979, 67 per cent of the country belonged to the C2DE economic class — the so-called working class — but when she left office that had fallen to just 51 per cent.
She was also a politician who stood for what she believed in. Her, Tony Benn, etc. like them or loath them, you could understand who they were and what they believed in.
Also didn't live through the period and struggle to have quite a strong feelings in favour of or opposing Thatcher. Studying her time in office, i would agree that her track record is mixed rather than overwhelmingly positive or negative. However,I think it is difficult to argue against her being the most significant post war Prime Minister. For better or worse.
The point on declining industry is entirely right HK, and is something we are still struggling with today. Privatisation in theory makes the industries more competitive, but in order to achieve that the market has to be properly regulated still. Clearly not the case in the energy sector as others have mentioned. As you say, Thatcher did not have a sufficient strategy in place to modernise the British economy and replace the old industries. This legacy is felt through to today with the current government trying to find its niche, as Germany has done more successfully.
Disagree on the 'right to buy' council houses scheme. It enabled thousands of working class would-be labour voters to buy their council house turning them into thatcher supporters in the process. Politically astute but in the long run has proved economically foolish in diminishing the social housing stock, in turn forcing house prices and rents up making it difficult for a whole new generation of the working class to get on the property ladder or even afford to rent.
Resident Politics student has been keeping quiet, probably about time to say something though. The truth is that neither the Thatcherite's or the Anti-Thatcher campaign are correct about the Iron Lady. I would argue that she was perhaps more positive than negative, but on the whole she is a very bipolar politician to study and there is nothing wrong with liking or hating her, It is wrong however, to disrespect her. I don't intend to get into much detail but here is a quick summary.
Pro's: Helping people onto the housing ladder Protecting the Falklands Kept the Pound when all others disagreed Fought Communism Saved the Economy (A hot one but bear with me) Broke the Glass Ceiling European Rebate
Con's Lack of Social Policy Authoritarian use of Policing Sell off of Social Housing The Anglo-Irish Agreement Poll Tax
Anyone got anything to add?
I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them.
Resident Politics student has been keeping quiet, probably about time to say something though. The truth is that neither the Thatcherite's or the Anti-Thatcher campaign are correct about the Iron Lady. I would argue that she was perhaps more positive than negative, but on the whole she is a very bipolar politician to study and there is nothing wrong with liking or hating her, It is wrong however, to disrespect her. I don't intend to get into much detail but here is a quick summary.
Pro's: Helping people onto the housing ladder Protecting the Falklands Kept the Pound when all others disagreed Fought Communism Saved the Economy (A hot one but bear with me) Broke the Glass Ceiling European Rebate
Con's Lack of Social Policy Authoritarian use of Policing Sell off of Social Housing The Anglo-Irish Agreement Poll Tax
I guess that depends on your feelings towards protectionism.
To be fair my personal feelings regarding Asian imports is that its about time there was a restriction on what and how much comes into this country.The way i see it is that if imports were regulated it would give us a chance to build up our own industry creating jobs and giving people the chance to buy quality merchandise made at home instead of everything being cheap and made in China. Our economy is abysmal while countries like China and India etc are thriving.Our forces are being cut back but hey all this dosn't matter cos one or two are making shed loads of money and sod the rest of us. The lesson will be learned when our country is actually destroyed and that will happen pretty soon,it dosn't take a brain surgeon to see whats going to happen.
Limited economic policy to modernise the economy during the deindustrialisaton, aside from deregulation of financial markets.
Cosying up to dictators.
Increased income inequality (Gini coefficient increased by 8% during her time in office)
Is income inequality important? I'd argue that so long as everyone is better off, the gap between rich and poor is insignificant.
You're correct about Dictators with the possible exception of Pinochet because we would have lost the Falklands war without his cooperation.
Thatcher could have managed deindustrialisaton differently, but ultimately this is something we look at with the gift of hindsight. Thatchers belief in the markets ultimately paid off but there was a very painful transitional period which could have been softened.
I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them.
To be fair my personal feelings regarding Asian imports is that its about time there was a restriction on what and how much comes into this country.The way i see it is that if imports were regulated it would give us a chance to build up our own industry creating jobs and giving people the chance to buy quality merchandise made at home instead of everything being cheap and made in China. Our economy is abysmal while countries like China and India etc are thriving.Our forces are being cut back but hey all this dosn't matter cos one or two are making shed loads of money and sod the rest of us. The lesson will be learned when our country is actually destroyed and that will happen pretty soon,it dosn't take a brain surgeon to see whats going to happen.
Best way to hit the poor is to cut off Asian imports, just makes everything much more expensive, we will never be able to compete with the likes of China and India on price, our only hope is to emulate Japan and employ Demings economic model. What we really need to do is focus on building an education system that will help people get jobs and foster entrepreneurship instead of leaving them with useless qualifications.
I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them.
To be fair my personal feelings regarding Asian imports is that its about time there was a restriction on what and how much comes into this country.The way i see it is that if imports were regulated it would give us a chance to build up our own industry creating jobs and giving people the chance to buy quality merchandise made at home instead of everything being cheap and made in China. Our economy is abysmal while countries like China and India etc are thriving.Our forces are being cut back but hey all this dosn't matter cos one or two are making shed loads of money and sod the rest of us. The lesson will be learned when our country is actually destroyed and that will happen pretty soon,it dosn't take a brain surgeon to see whats going to happen.
Sorry, but gonna have to break my silence on this one - but fortunately it's nothing to do with Thatcher herself.
Protectionism - in any form - is the greatest threat to prosperity; it's almost the first law of economics.
Country A starts restricting imports. Countries B, C & D reciprocate. Result - impoverishment of all.
Best way to hit the poor is to cut off Asian imports, just makes everything much more expensive, we will never be able to compete with the likes of China and India on price, our only hope is to emulate Japan and employ Demings economic model. What we really need to do is focus on building an education system that will help people get jobs and foster entrepreneurship instead of leaving them with useless qualifications.
Help people get jobs ? What jobs for gods sake.Working on the minimum wage in this country is ridiculous,how a family can live on minimum wage is just purely unrealistic.As for hitting the poor by cutting off Asian imports,i'm sure given the chance,most folk would prefare to work for a honest good wage and be able to afford more quality merchandise instead of throwaway crap. Foster entrepreneurship ha ha Its industry we need for gods sake,you cant expect the entire population to sit behind a laptop and import shi*e.We need factories,industry and construction,manual labour for the working class because they are the backbone of this country and cant see them taking it much more.
Resident Politics student has been keeping quiet, probably about time to say something though. The truth is that neither the Thatcherite's or the Anti-Thatcher campaign are correct about the Iron Lady. I would argue that she was perhaps more positive than negative, but on the whole she is a very bipolar politician to study and there is nothing wrong with liking or hating her, It is wrong however, to disrespect her. I don't intend to get into much detail but here is a quick summary.
Pro's: Helping people onto the housing ladder Protecting the Falklands Kept the Pound when all others disagreed Fought Communism Saved the Economy (A hot one but bear with me) Broke the Glass Ceiling European Rebate
Con's Lack of Social Policy Authoritarian use of Policing Sell off of Social Housing The Anglo-Irish Agreement Poll Tax
Anyone got anything to add?
Yes, she gave us Mark (and to a lesser extent Carol) Thatcher.
In a deindustrialised town like Rochdale, where many people need some help in getting jobs and decent housing, so much support for Thatcherite economics is surprising. Perhaps watching Dale in the Thatcher years - when we were near the bottom of the bottom tier, finishing 24th (1980), 15th, 21st, 20th, 22th, 17th, 18th, 21st, 21st, 18th, 12th (1990) - imbued these pro-Thatcher posters with a profoundly masochistic streak.
Yes, she gave us Mark (and to a lesser extent Carol) Thatcher.
In a deindustrialised town like Rochdale, where many people need some help in getting jobs and decent housing, so much support for Thatcherite economics is surprising. Perhaps watching Dale in the Thatcher years - when we were near the bottom of the bottom tier, finishing 24th (1980), 15th, 21st, 20th, 22th, 17th, 18th, 21st, 21st, 18th, 12th (1990) - imbued these pro-Thatcher posters with a profoundly masochistic streak.
Or maybe its because we can see beyond the end of our nose.
(Shit, now I've broken my silence, dunno if I can get it back again )
There are now several economic trends which point to an increase in manufacturing in the UK but the likelihood is it will not create as many new jobs as you might imagine. "Onshoring", the bringing of manufacturing back from China and India et al is beginning to increase as Chinese and Indian workers seek (and get) pay rises. The gap between the cost of manufacturing offshore and onshore is shrinking with onshore having the advantage of shorter shipping, lower stock requirements and easier quality assurance. In the US the relationship between research, state and manufacturer is also becoming much closer (as it is in Germany) and the effect of cheap energy (from fracking) is rapidly lowering the cost of production. However the new (returning)industries in the US particularly do not resemble any of the factories we remember from the 50s or 60s , they are highly mechanised and require relatively few (but highly skilled) workers to run them. There is also great excitement in the US about the future of 3D printing where complex machine parts can be created straight from a diagram, this technology will create thousands of new jobs for skilled software engineers and designers but the concept of large factories employing hundreds of unskilled and semi-skilled workers has gone forever. It would appear that Harold Wilson's "white heat of technology" may at last be about to bring about a leisure society but the question that needs answering is "how do we pay for it"?
Good to read some intelligent analysis instead of uninformed rhetoric!
Here's some further facts:
Manufacturing output rose by 12% during the Thatcher years, as opposed to a 5% decline in output during the period of the 1974-79 Labour government (source: Office of National Statistics).
Of course, it was also a different kind of manufacturing; as you've described 49th, the change from labour-intensive smokestack factories to energy-efficient mechanised (and now digitalised) production began during the Thatcher years - thank goodness. A key moment was the decision by Nissan to open a factory in Sunderland in 1984 because of the favourable conditions brought about once politically-motivated union dinosaurs had been seen off. That gave other industries the confidence to invest in manufacturing in Britain. Jaguar Landrover (now Indian-owned but maintaining the core values of the company) is taking an increasing share of the US and Chinese luxury car market from the likes of BMW, Mercedes and Audi.
Here's another fact that some of you might find hard to swallow. The Harold Wilson administrations of 1964-70 and 1974-76 (8 years) closed down MORE coal mines than the Thatcher government (11 years).
Something else you may find hard to swallow............£10 million is the cost of the funeral so why not make the Thatcher lovers pay for it.How on earth can the goverment condone penalising older folk and disabled with bedroom tax and then spend £10,000,000 on a funeral where they could have spent 40p for a binbag.
Something else you may find hard to swallow............£10 million is the cost of the funeral so why not make the Thatcher lovers pay for it.How on earth can the goverment condone penalising older folk and disabled with bedroom tax and then spend £10,000,000 on a funeral where they could have spent 40p for a binbag.
The "Thatcher lovers" are paying for it - through our taxes. We voted her in three times.
I'm not saying I agree with all the ceremonial crap (but that's because I don't like ceremonial crap!)
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