| Getting away with it 17:12 - Mar 2 with 26497 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
How come Steve is getting such a soft ride
If it were Olly he would be getting dogs abuse
Back to
McClueless |  |
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| Getting away with it on 13:05 - Mar 3 with 2554 views | Loftgirl |
| Getting away with it on 11:20 - Mar 3 by paulparker |
Stats ??? If you want to go by stats that would mean Iain diaries was our most successful manager |
That's the answer then, get Iain diaries back, whoever he is. |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 13:29 - Mar 3 with 2486 views | qprd |
why do we constantly need to do a referendum on the manager? finish the season. lets see where we are, and then assess the situation
when we had beaten leeds in the fa cup, after beating forest in the city ground and 8th in the division, itd have been stupid to get overexcited and offer him an extention
now that we're on a bad run, its equally stupid to freak out and judge him on the basis of one bad run
and to answer OP's original questions, mclaren hasnt been perfect and his record is marginally better than ollie's.but mclaren hasnt had a pop at the fans, done the silly antics at millwall or drastically changed the teams every other match. he also wasnt criticized in his first half season. most of the hate (which i agree was over the top), began at the start of 17-18. mclaren deserves some time [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 13:30]
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| Getting away with it on 13:38 - Mar 3 with 2467 views | TacticalR |
@qprd 'why do we constantly need to do a referendum on the manager?'
Don't tell me you are an opponent of The Will of the People? |  |
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| Getting away with it on 13:43 - Mar 3 with 2443 views | timcocking |
Because two months ago he was the best manager in the land... |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 13:49 - Mar 3 with 2427 views | Neil_SI |
| Getting away with it on 13:02 - Mar 3 by isawqpratwcity |
Some fair observations, Neil.
I don't think we over-compensated with our four loanees. We lost a fair bit of expertise and experience last summer and have been slipping backwards in the absence of Cameron and Rangel in particular. I also agree that unless our youngsters are reasonably sure of getting regular appearances (and up to a certain standard), then they should be out on loan getting solid playing time.
How could McClaren 'shut up shop' with his quite apparent defensive problems?
I don't think we need worry about an FFP-free rush of blood from Fernandes. This season was our last chance for the foreseeable future to show that we were an outside chance for promotion. Next season is gonna be OMG tough. |
I agree that we needed some experience and it was sensible to bring some in, but I'm not sure the expense of these signings was worth it.
Of course, in hindsight, it would have been a steal if we somehow won promotion, but I think in the main everybody's expectations was more about survival and hoping for a bit more than that. And in that circumstance, was this outlay worth it when we knew the potential impact the season after?
The "how" question for shutting up shop is a good one and doesn't have a straightforward answer, because there are several factors at play with this and has lots of levers that affect things positively or negatively in defence or attack, depending on which way you go.
The three centre backs we have are slow and therefore, can easily get caught out with balls over the top if they are hold a higher than normal defensive line. If you then don't thicken the midfield, you can't protect them well enough and we don't have a midfield that is tracking runners effectively that burst beyond.
We play with very attack minded or limited wide players. So, we are always a little imbalanced, with Jake Bidewell generally getting no protection whatever down his side. He is often left in 2:1 or even 3:1 situations. Yet, Bidwell is the only full-back with the intelligence to cover the centre-backs, he's the one who is likely to dart infield to make covering tackles, yet he is also the one with less protection on his side. When we are holding on in games and getting deeper, it makes his area more exposed as he tried to stay narrow and compact to help out the centre-halves.
In contrast, Furlong's defensive positioning is less sound, but he is quicker and with a decent leap on him, but you'll see wide men getting behind him to the byline more often and he is less likely to cover incorrectly.
What can compound this problem is when we have two in the middle, as sometimes the midfielders are busy chasing around, and forgetting who they are supposed to be protecting (the centre backs or trying to help the full backs) and can inadvertently leave large gaps that make it easy for the other team to penetrate.
Freeman works hard, but is allowed to roam in a bid to get him on the ball. This works to our advantage when he is able to find possession, but it sometimes means it's at the expense of being in the correct place for shape and balance in defence. We can be affected in transition by this, but there's no easy answer because we have to try and give him the creative freedom to find something. I'm willing to live with the risks, but it means others elsewhere have to be razor sharp when there's a turnover of possession. In recent matches, I've loved how well Freeman has picked the ball up in defensive areas and driven forward on the ball.
Bright is less defensive, so if he plays and Freeman plays, you leave both full backs exposed, and therefore leaves us vulnerable, but then we don't have his direct running and ability to take players on in 1:1s. If Pavel plays, you get far more defensive graft, but perhaps less finesse going forward. He can be hit or miss, or a bit more of a player who plays to percentages in the final third (just sling a ball in and hope for the best, etc). In addition, when Pavel plays, he entices Furlong forward as he's likely to hang around the byline and pull balls back. If caught on the counter, this leaves us exposed here, whereas, if Bright plays, he's more likely to ignore the full backs and try and do it all alone, so perhaps giving a little more stability when countered.
And then from the strikers perspective, Wells is the best at harassing defenders and defensive midfield players from the opposition, but the rest are a bit hit and miss in these areas. Eze has a lot to learn with how and when he closes down, and does need to work a bit harder from this perspective. I find Hemed's work a bit aimless, to be honest, and Matt Smith is limited in mobility and can tire quickly and that's dangerous whenever the opponents have the ball.
We also don't play intelligently enough whenever Smith plays. We sling balls forward to him with little support around him, perhaps because we're worried of dragging ourselves out of position if he loses his dual, but by doing that, the opposition tend to have free shot at starting their attack and are unchecked from the back. This puts pressure on the units behind, causing the midfield to hesitate whether to engage or not and we're often caught out in these in between moments with one person making the wrong move and being made to pay for it.
I think a lot more can be done by the strikers to defend from the front and protect the team and ensuring that the opposition defence is shifted and moved to where you want them. They've got to understand how to shape themselves to block simple balls coming through into midfield, or to ensure that the defence play to who they think is the weakest link, and let that player make the forward pass to reduce the probability of it being an accurate ball.
In some of these matches in the losing run, I'd have thickened the midfield and made us defensive and hard to beat. It obviously depends on who plays and who the opponents are, but generally when you shut up shop you need to protect the centre backs and ensure nobody is left 1:1 or worse in wide areas.
I'd certainly look deeper into why we keep getting beaten by simple long balls over the top, which should be bread and butter for Leistner, Lynch and Hall. But, it sort of speaks to the starting positions not being quite right. They've been missing what you assume are simple headers, but then the midfield haven't really reacted quick enough either in some of these cases. Even Lynch's poor header against West Brom (which was inexcusable) had no midfielder in the hole who could remotely impact play and there was also very little communication between players. Someone should have called clearly and so these basics must be worked on and addressed.
Lumley also needs to do a lot of work on his kicking and general distribution. That's one area where he's weak overall.
And of course, there's a time and place to play out from the back.  . |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 13:49 - Mar 3 with 2425 views | TGRRRSSS |
| Getting away with it on 13:38 - Mar 3 by TacticalR |
@qprd 'why do we constantly need to do a referendum on the manager?'
Don't tell me you are an opponent of The Will of the People? |
What about the DOF backstop? |  | | |
| Getting away with on 13:54 - Mar 3 with 2409 views | Ned_Kennedys |
I personally think overall he has underperformed up til now and he hasn't bought into the 'develop the young players' ethos he was brought in on but it's sensible to review the situation in the summer. Assuming the finances dictate that there will be no more expensive loans next season then a mutual decision needs to be made whether SMc is the right man to manage and develop what we have. |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 14:00 - Mar 3 with 2377 views | NW5Hoop |
August every season, from everyone: "I'll just be happy if we can stay in the division."
March every season, from everyone: "This is a disgrace. Why are we only 16th? The manager's a disgrace." | | | |
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| Getting away with it on 14:01 - Mar 3 with 2372 views | TGRRRSSS |
Neil
Your doubtful those loan signings were needed in hindsight.
I disagree people seem to have forgotten partly how bad we were those early games, and that point up at Birmingham really was the foundation building to some of the relative success we've had.
Wells especially (and Cameron) have done a lot I think in the games, he's scored quite a few, it's easy after the horror run since Christmas to suggest they weren't vital, but I think those signings brought in a bit of steel and know how (Cameron and Rangel) especially with years of PL behind them that must have helped give others a lift after a terrible start where we could have been well adrift before December.
As it was things improved markedly, we've hit a wall no doubt, but I don't think it woiuld have helped anyone if we'd ended up battling Ipswich for the bottom position let alone go down. | | | |
| Getting away with it on 14:04 - Mar 3 with 2371 views | Pommyhoop |
| Getting away with it on 14:00 - Mar 3 by NW5Hoop |
August every season, from everyone: "I'll just be happy if we can stay in the division."
March every season, from everyone: "This is a disgrace. Why are we only 16th? The manager's a disgrace." |
You forgot the ''we could/should scrape the playoffs you know'' |  |
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| Getting away with it on 14:18 - Mar 3 with 2346 views | CamberleyR |
| Getting away with it on 13:43 - Mar 3 by timcocking |
Because two months ago he was the best manager in the land... |
I think you'll find nobody was saying that.... |  |
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| Getting away with it on 14:27 - Mar 3 with 2316 views | ManinBlack |
I don't blame McLaren for our results collapsing like a soufflé. The blame lies with Jose Mourinho for getting the bullet at Man Utd. When they were losing we were winning but as soon as Solksjaer took over they keep winning and we keep losing. Simples as Meerkats and the Prime Minister would say!
 |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 14:29 - Mar 3 with 2308 views | Neil_SI |
| Getting away with it on 14:01 - Mar 3 by TGRRRSSS |
Neil
Your doubtful those loan signings were needed in hindsight.
I disagree people seem to have forgotten partly how bad we were those early games, and that point up at Birmingham really was the foundation building to some of the relative success we've had.
Wells especially (and Cameron) have done a lot I think in the games, he's scored quite a few, it's easy after the horror run since Christmas to suggest they weren't vital, but I think those signings brought in a bit of steel and know how (Cameron and Rangel) especially with years of PL behind them that must have helped give others a lift after a terrible start where we could have been well adrift before December.
As it was things improved markedly, we've hit a wall no doubt, but I don't think it woiuld have helped anyone if we'd ended up battling Ipswich for the bottom position let alone go down. |
Sure, it's all hindsight, but I think we could have gotten away with just Wells and Rangel, personally. And that's not to say the others haven't contributed, they have.
But, they won't have come cheap and Cameron has only been available for probably less than half of the matches he's been here (13 apps including off the bench), with Rangel not too far behind (17 apps). Even Hemed has featured more than they have (21 apps including off the bench, but probably less minutes on the pitch overall).
Wells would have been expensive, but has been worth it; 34 appearances under his belt, has scored goals and contributed with his all round play too. He will be hard to replace.
I'd also say Luongo's absence while he was away with Australia played a bigger role in our downturn of results than Cameron's absence. But, I should add, from what I was talking about earlier about levers and shutting up shop, etc. I think Cameron does the best job of protecting the two centre halves, but at the expense of other midfield duties, if he sits in front of them and stays there. [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 14:34]
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| Getting away with it on 14:33 - Mar 3 with 2297 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Getting away with it on 14:00 - Mar 3 by NW5Hoop |
August every season, from everyone: "I'll just be happy if we can stay in the division."
March every season, from everyone: "This is a disgrace. Why are we only 16th? The manager's a disgrace." |
Yeah that's JUST what 'everyone' was saying at the beginning of the season.... 🙄 | | | |
| Getting away with it on 15:02 - Mar 3 with 2238 views | terryb |
| Getting away with it on 12:50 - Mar 3 by paulparker |
The other thing to consider is has Mclaren actually improved any of the players? I’m struggling to think of anyone who has really gone up another level considering Mclaren is this wonder coach |
I would say that Bidwell, Wszolek & Freeman have improved as players this seson. Possibly, Cousins & Luongo as well.
On the other hand, Scowen has only been a fraction of the player he was last season. Others, especailly the younger ones, don't appear to have particulary improved from the start of the season.
I admit to not being a fan of Holloway, although I don't think he deserved to be dismissed & he should have been our manager this seson.
In reply to the OP. Perhaps he is right & the manager is being given an easier ride, but so was Holloway mainly. Not that this is relevant.
The truth is that we shouldn't & that we financially can't change the manager now, so what is the point in trying to divide the fan base? | | | |
| Getting away with it on 15:04 - Mar 3 with 2234 views | daveB |
I think McClaren should be judged at the end of the season, last few weeks haven't been good but at our best this season we have looked a good side |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 15:09 - Mar 3 with 2213 views | bosh67 |
| Getting away with it on 14:27 - Mar 3 by ManinBlack |
I don't blame McLaren for our results collapsing like a soufflé. The blame lies with Jose Mourinho for getting the bullet at Man Utd. When they were losing we were winning but as soon as Solksjaer took over they keep winning and we keep losing. Simples as Meerkats and the Prime Minister would say!
|
This
+ whenever I go near a Tesco or use a Tesco bag on a match day we lose. I call it the Curse Of Tesco.
So really nothing to do with McClaren or the team. |  |
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| Getting away with it on 15:44 - Mar 3 with 2143 views | paulparker |
| Getting away with it on 15:02 - Mar 3 by terryb |
I would say that Bidwell, Wszolek & Freeman have improved as players this seson. Possibly, Cousins & Luongo as well.
On the other hand, Scowen has only been a fraction of the player he was last season. Others, especailly the younger ones, don't appear to have particulary improved from the start of the season.
I admit to not being a fan of Holloway, although I don't think he deserved to be dismissed & he should have been our manager this seson.
In reply to the OP. Perhaps he is right & the manager is being given an easier ride, but so was Holloway mainly. Not that this is relevant.
The truth is that we shouldn't & that we financially can't change the manager now, so what is the point in trying to divide the fan base? |
I’d give Mclaren another season but Olly should have had this season imo and was harshly sacked
The appointment of Mclaren was to make our youngsters better but I’ve seen precious little of that infact Holloway is the one who has got the best out of furlong, smyth, manning, BOS , scowen , Hall than Mclaren has , Freeman has always been decent and I make you right about pav he has shown to be better this year but has faded a bit in recent games , luango is luango
I honestly don’t think we are any better off despite having this super coach |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Getting away with it on 16:22 - Mar 3 with 2042 views | danehoop |
| Getting away with it on 15:44 - Mar 3 by paulparker |
I’d give Mclaren another season but Olly should have had this season imo and was harshly sacked
The appointment of Mclaren was to make our youngsters better but I’ve seen precious little of that infact Holloway is the one who has got the best out of furlong, smyth, manning, BOS , scowen , Hall than Mclaren has , Freeman has always been decent and I make you right about pav he has shown to be better this year but has faded a bit in recent games , luango is luango
I honestly don’t think we are any better off despite having this super coach |
Not sure I agree that Ollie necessarily got the best out the youngsters. There was an increasing amount of Olliebingo going in places with them being brought in for a half or game and dropped again immediately after. They both have had somewhat different briefs and McClaren's squad is much less expensive than Ollies, with far more first team players coming in from U23's this year than we have had before. Equally the outward loans seem to have been more structures this time around as well, with seemingly much greater follow up than previously. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Getting away with it on 16:53 - Mar 3 with 1966 views | Northernr |
| Getting away with it on 14:33 - Mar 3 by Ned_Kennedys |
Yeah that's JUST what 'everyone' was saying at the beginning of the season.... 🙄 |
They pretty much were on here, and justifiably so. |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 17:34 - Mar 3 with 1868 views | VancouverHoop |
| Getting away with it on 13:49 - Mar 3 by Neil_SI |
I agree that we needed some experience and it was sensible to bring some in, but I'm not sure the expense of these signings was worth it.
Of course, in hindsight, it would have been a steal if we somehow won promotion, but I think in the main everybody's expectations was more about survival and hoping for a bit more than that. And in that circumstance, was this outlay worth it when we knew the potential impact the season after?
The "how" question for shutting up shop is a good one and doesn't have a straightforward answer, because there are several factors at play with this and has lots of levers that affect things positively or negatively in defence or attack, depending on which way you go.
The three centre backs we have are slow and therefore, can easily get caught out with balls over the top if they are hold a higher than normal defensive line. If you then don't thicken the midfield, you can't protect them well enough and we don't have a midfield that is tracking runners effectively that burst beyond.
We play with very attack minded or limited wide players. So, we are always a little imbalanced, with Jake Bidewell generally getting no protection whatever down his side. He is often left in 2:1 or even 3:1 situations. Yet, Bidwell is the only full-back with the intelligence to cover the centre-backs, he's the one who is likely to dart infield to make covering tackles, yet he is also the one with less protection on his side. When we are holding on in games and getting deeper, it makes his area more exposed as he tried to stay narrow and compact to help out the centre-halves.
In contrast, Furlong's defensive positioning is less sound, but he is quicker and with a decent leap on him, but you'll see wide men getting behind him to the byline more often and he is less likely to cover incorrectly.
What can compound this problem is when we have two in the middle, as sometimes the midfielders are busy chasing around, and forgetting who they are supposed to be protecting (the centre backs or trying to help the full backs) and can inadvertently leave large gaps that make it easy for the other team to penetrate.
Freeman works hard, but is allowed to roam in a bid to get him on the ball. This works to our advantage when he is able to find possession, but it sometimes means it's at the expense of being in the correct place for shape and balance in defence. We can be affected in transition by this, but there's no easy answer because we have to try and give him the creative freedom to find something. I'm willing to live with the risks, but it means others elsewhere have to be razor sharp when there's a turnover of possession. In recent matches, I've loved how well Freeman has picked the ball up in defensive areas and driven forward on the ball.
Bright is less defensive, so if he plays and Freeman plays, you leave both full backs exposed, and therefore leaves us vulnerable, but then we don't have his direct running and ability to take players on in 1:1s. If Pavel plays, you get far more defensive graft, but perhaps less finesse going forward. He can be hit or miss, or a bit more of a player who plays to percentages in the final third (just sling a ball in and hope for the best, etc). In addition, when Pavel plays, he entices Furlong forward as he's likely to hang around the byline and pull balls back. If caught on the counter, this leaves us exposed here, whereas, if Bright plays, he's more likely to ignore the full backs and try and do it all alone, so perhaps giving a little more stability when countered.
And then from the strikers perspective, Wells is the best at harassing defenders and defensive midfield players from the opposition, but the rest are a bit hit and miss in these areas. Eze has a lot to learn with how and when he closes down, and does need to work a bit harder from this perspective. I find Hemed's work a bit aimless, to be honest, and Matt Smith is limited in mobility and can tire quickly and that's dangerous whenever the opponents have the ball.
We also don't play intelligently enough whenever Smith plays. We sling balls forward to him with little support around him, perhaps because we're worried of dragging ourselves out of position if he loses his dual, but by doing that, the opposition tend to have free shot at starting their attack and are unchecked from the back. This puts pressure on the units behind, causing the midfield to hesitate whether to engage or not and we're often caught out in these in between moments with one person making the wrong move and being made to pay for it.
I think a lot more can be done by the strikers to defend from the front and protect the team and ensuring that the opposition defence is shifted and moved to where you want them. They've got to understand how to shape themselves to block simple balls coming through into midfield, or to ensure that the defence play to who they think is the weakest link, and let that player make the forward pass to reduce the probability of it being an accurate ball.
In some of these matches in the losing run, I'd have thickened the midfield and made us defensive and hard to beat. It obviously depends on who plays and who the opponents are, but generally when you shut up shop you need to protect the centre backs and ensure nobody is left 1:1 or worse in wide areas.
I'd certainly look deeper into why we keep getting beaten by simple long balls over the top, which should be bread and butter for Leistner, Lynch and Hall. But, it sort of speaks to the starting positions not being quite right. They've been missing what you assume are simple headers, but then the midfield haven't really reacted quick enough either in some of these cases. Even Lynch's poor header against West Brom (which was inexcusable) had no midfielder in the hole who could remotely impact play and there was also very little communication between players. Someone should have called clearly and so these basics must be worked on and addressed.
Lumley also needs to do a lot of work on his kicking and general distribution. That's one area where he's weak overall.
And of course, there's a time and place to play out from the back. . |
Do any of us know how expensive the loanees are though? Yes they have Premier League cred but, Cameron aside, the other two hadn't established themselves there. Rangel was without a club so I'm guessing (like we all are) that it wasn't close to his Swansea contract. Lee Hoos suggested recently that the reason the loan players came in late was because we got the best price that way. So maybe not so expensive after all? Basically it's hard to construct an argument without basic factual information (unless you're Donald Trump.) We're just theorising.
What we do know for sure is we were transfer embargoed during the January window, and the team has had a match every 3.8 days since Boxing Day. They're tired and there's been very little time to practice. Any talk, about players, coaches or management needs to
take that into account | | | |
| Getting away with it on 18:41 - Mar 3 with 1733 views | Neil_SI |
| Getting away with it on 17:34 - Mar 3 by VancouverHoop |
Do any of us know how expensive the loanees are though? Yes they have Premier League cred but, Cameron aside, the other two hadn't established themselves there. Rangel was without a club so I'm guessing (like we all are) that it wasn't close to his Swansea contract. Lee Hoos suggested recently that the reason the loan players came in late was because we got the best price that way. So maybe not so expensive after all? Basically it's hard to construct an argument without basic factual information (unless you're Donald Trump.) We're just theorising.
What we do know for sure is we were transfer embargoed during the January window, and the team has had a match every 3.8 days since Boxing Day. They're tired and there's been very little time to practice. Any talk, about players, coaches or management needs to
take that into account |
There's a massive difference between Premier League prices versus the Championship, so even if it was cheap by Premier League standards, it's still very expensive relative to what the norms are at Championship level. Even if the deal was more favourable towards us, it's still going to cost a lot.
In recent years, clubs who yo-yo between the divisions have been trying to change the way they offer contracts in a bid to remain competitive, by trying to convince players to take an automatic pay cut if relegated. This isn't easy though and probably comes with a lot of other caveats, such as huge incentives for promotion or very low minimum release clause fees.
In the past, it has largely worked in favour of the players if their club was promoted, with lots of players on huge incentives, either through their salary or bonuses, or both, getting massive hikes that their ability didn't warrant. And this is still true.
We've done a lot of work to reduce the image that we're a club willing handing out easy pay days for players, but even at this level, we probably still pay over the odds for Championship or lower level players. Matt Smith is a recent example and hint towards that, because we weren't able to shift him out to Millwall on loan as they felt his salary was excessive and they refused to cover it, but I suppose that is obvious when our recent accounts show a wage bill of £31m for 2017/18 versus £13m at Millwall. It will be interesting to see how this changes in the next couple of sets of accounts.
And yes, I agree we've looked tired in recent matches and this period, but I also think McClaren could have utilised the squad a little bit better to try and keep them fresher. The FA Cup game against Watford seemed a missed opportunity because we were out on our feet with 20 minutes to go, when we really needed the energy to throw the kitchen sink at it, which was a shame. | | | |
| Getting away with it on 18:57 - Mar 3 with 1704 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Getting away with it on 12:50 - Mar 3 by paulparker |
The other thing to consider is has Mclaren actually improved any of the players? I’m struggling to think of anyone who has really gone up another level considering Mclaren is this wonder coach |
I have spoken to a number of the players at the ground before matches and even Paul Smyth, who I was talking to about why his face didn't seem to fit at QPR , said at the end that SMC and his team are the best coaches he has worked with, something Luke Freeman has also said. Geoff Cameron too was also offering high praise for the coaching at QPR.
I would definitely take the words of the players over any speculation, as to his abilities, on here. IMO, the football has been much better this season and some very memorable results to bring a warm glow during the Xmas period. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Getting away with it on 19:02 - Mar 3 with 1694 views | NW5Hoop |
| Getting away with it on 18:57 - Mar 3 by Esox_Lucius |
I have spoken to a number of the players at the ground before matches and even Paul Smyth, who I was talking to about why his face didn't seem to fit at QPR , said at the end that SMC and his team are the best coaches he has worked with, something Luke Freeman has also said. Geoff Cameron too was also offering high praise for the coaching at QPR.
I would definitely take the words of the players over any speculation, as to his abilities, on here. IMO, the football has been much better this season and some very memorable results to bring a warm glow during the Xmas period. |
To be fair, all players routinely say that whoever they are currently playing for are the best coaches they've ever had. | | | |
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