| Getting away with it 17:12 - Mar 2 with 26404 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
How come Steve is getting such a soft ride
If it were Olly he would be getting dogs abuse
Back to
McClueless |  |
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| Getting away with it on 10:09 - Mar 3 with 2231 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Getting away with it on 09:49 - Mar 3 by paulparker |
Your wasting your time with him this clown thinks JFH and Ramsey are better managers than Holloway |
Wanna talk about the stats? |  |
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| Getting away with it on 10:14 - Mar 3 with 2222 views | smegma |
| Getting away with it on 17:18 - Mar 2 by Rangers67 |
Couldn't agree more . And yet you will still get some people on here who believe he is the right man for the job. Despite what some of them are seeing . The thing is though when you put forward the viewpoint that he is crap and provide evidence they get all hurt and resentful. It will be interesting to see what excuses they come out with now on his behalf. |
So what's the answer??
Sack him thus paying out more £millions in compo, replace him with who ?? |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 10:17 - Mar 3 with 2211 views | Pey |
| Getting away with it on 08:44 - Mar 3 by PunteR |
No but warnock got the best out of the othr players and the loan system. Of course now looking back it was a great team but Warnock still had it all to do pre season.
We've all seen moments where our players look like world beaters. Theres potential but clearly they cant sustain that level. Why is that? Surely that comes down to the manager and coaching staff ?
Im not saying sack him btw i just think its not really clicking yet and as pointed out numerous times its going to get harder next season. Will Maclaren still want to be here? Im not so sure.
Im not trying to compare the two seasons because obviously circumstances, players, staff are all different but we've been in situations like this before and Warnock dragged us up. What was the key ingredient that got our club back on its feet and heading in the right direction? Before the 10/11 season started ?. [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 9:07]
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Warnock did identify the few last games before our 10/11 season that we were lacking true leaders on the pitch.
Hence he was so quick to lure Derry and Hill to join him at QPR.
Although Derry and Hill were no means gamechangers or your chances creaters/ scorers they made sure everyone (except trying with Tarbs) would stick to the plan of the manager.
They lead the team verbally and by action so others could excel in their role.
In my honest opinion we don't have real leaders in the squad albeit loanee Cameron who could take up that role which should be Lungo's
but for some reason its not his thing.
Making new entry Leistner captain is an example Steve knows this is the matter at our club and due to financial wobbles hard to solve. |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 10:43 - Mar 3 with 2114 views | francisbowles |
| Getting away with it on 09:56 - Mar 3 by isawqpratwcity |
So doesn't that make us better off?
Maybe not by much, but we've definitely broken the back of the fixture list and under punishing circumstances. I'm not at all worried about the rest of the season and reasonably comfortable that we'll finish above 16th and 56 points. Aren't you? |
This is a big week for us and SM and his coaching staff have to pick up the players and get them going again.
The early stages of our losing run saw with us playing reasonably well, missing the three injured players as well as Luongo but being unlucky whilst losing games with confidence not suffering too much as it had pick up effect of the FA Cup.
More recently, we have the slightly fortunate win against the best team in the league sandwiched by two really poor performances. After so many defeats, most against the better sides, confidence is now damaged and how much we can rebuild it will determine whether we continue to slide or start picking up points from 'easier' fixtures.
Furlong and Bidwell in particular look very shaky at times, partly, no doubt, due to the shifting of formations and having to play full back, wing back and centre back, sometimes in the same game. Yesterday, in truth Brentford pulled us apart and we found it very hard to keep the ball, even Freeman being swamped by three opponents when he got the possession. We can thank Lumley for keeping us in the game.
Bright spots to start with, Freeman, Lumley coming back to form, Cousins, Luongo and Pav who have been the most consistent. Defence the biggest problem with finishing also needing a big improvement. | | | |
| Getting away with it on 10:45 - Mar 3 with 2108 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Getting away with it on 10:35 - Mar 3 by isawqpratwcity |
'The Club' didn't want him back, Fernandes did, and against the advice of his DoF.
And if you're talking about me, I have no hatred whatsoever for Holloway. He has proved himself to be a loyal servant of the club. I just don't think our loyalty to him should extend to keeping him in the job when he wasn't doing particularly well.
Of course the stats are important. You're only fooling yourself if you think they're not. And the "overall situation" hasn't changed since Fernandes told Redknapp "Sorry, money's tight" way back in January 2015. |
So hang on, Olly stats at this time last season were worse than JFH and Ramsey and you called for him to be sacked
S Mc stats at this time are near on the same as Ollies
Which means he is worse than JFH and Ramsey yet you think that's ok and we are better off
Comical and not even funny
Ok man of stats, what will be the points total at the end of the season 56? higher lower? | |
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| Getting away with it on 10:51 - Mar 3 with 2077 views | Hayesender |
The one person who's gotten away with a free ride is Fernandes.
Absolutely destroyed (twice) a fantastic opportunity to establish this club of ours.
We protested against Richard Thomson for a damn sight less |  |
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| Getting away with it on 10:57 - Mar 3 with 2062 views | Rangersw12 |
| Getting away with it on 09:45 - Mar 3 by Northernr |
Not that I want to answer a question with a question but I do think your answer is "who else would you get?" Couple of times in the Crown and in the away end yesterday a similar conversation to the one you've tried to start here came up and ended pretty quickly with that question - who else would come, who else would take it, would they really do any better?
Of course you live in hope that we might make a left field appointment from Germany and do a Norwich or Huddersfield or something like that but Fernandes likes a name, so in all liklihood it would just be another one of those tired old soaks off the managerial merry-go-round, or a former QPR player that they could PR well. We've had Ramsey, Hasselbaink, Holloway and now McClaren since we came down and we've basically been in the same league position throughout - in and around 16th. So who would realistically come, who would we realistically go for, who would do much better? |
Gary Bowyer?
Done an excellent job at Blackpool working under financial constraints
Ultimately it really doesn't matter who's in charge when we have a clown like Fernandes around the club | | | |
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| Getting away with it on 10:57 - Mar 3 with 2059 views | DejR_vu |
| Getting away with it on 10:51 - Mar 3 by Hayesender |
The one person who's gotten away with a free ride is Fernandes.
Absolutely destroyed (twice) a fantastic opportunity to establish this club of ours.
We protested against Richard Thomson for a damn sight less |
Amen to that.  | |
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| Getting away with it on 11:00 - Mar 3 with 2041 views | Rangersw12 |
| Getting away with it on 09:41 - Mar 3 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
The question was , how come S Mc is getting a soft ride compared to Olly when in reality
we are not better off.
As for waiting for a reason like this, the result on its own deserves harsh criticism as did the WB match and the other games at the start
I said nothing in the 7 game losing run apart from we were a bit unlucky a couple of times
but we were also lucky in the AV game or it would be a losing run of 9
Compare that to those that lambasted Olly after EVERY losing game last season and never any praise when we won.
I'd say my question is fair. [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 10:25]
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Because our fan base is weird like that they have ago at people who really care for the Club like Holloway and Ferdinand etc yet worship cnts like Joey Barton | | | |
| Getting away with it on 11:08 - Mar 3 with 2019 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Getting away with it on 11:01 - Mar 3 by traininvain |
I doubt many genuinely thought we’d be challenging for the playoffs. It was always going to be a difficult season with Holloway, McClaren or any manager. I reckon Guardiola would struggle with this lot. Four pages into this thread and I’ve not seen one suggestion of a realistic manager who could do much better which tells a story.
The problem I have with all this is beyond getting satisfaction from saying ‘I told you so’ (which is debatable as the club has basically stood still as expected by most), what exactly does all of this achieve apart from creating conflict amongst supporters?
We’re all frustrated. I’ve been to Brentford away four years in a row and not seen us win under 3 or 4 different managers (I’ve lost count). Doesn’t that suggest the problem is deeper rooted than the specific manager? |
Oh some did or that we should be in the top 10, and also some that we would be relegated under him. | |
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| Getting away with it on 11:18 - Mar 3 with 1984 views | Northernr |
| Getting away with it on 10:57 - Mar 3 by Rangersw12 |
Gary Bowyer?
Done an excellent job at Blackpool working under financial constraints
Ultimately it really doesn't matter who's in charge when we have a clown like Fernandes around the club |
Exactly that. And that's why I don't think there's a great deal of hunger for another change. Most seem to recognise that it doesn't really make a difference who's in charge, as our league positions over the last few seasons show. We've basically been sixteenth for four years now, under four different managers. |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 11:19 - Mar 3 with 1974 views | Northernr |
| Getting away with it on 10:09 - Mar 3 by isawqpratwcity |
Wanna talk about the stats? |
Yeh actually, which stats are you referring to? We're two points better off and two positions worse off than we were this time last season. It looks about equal to me. Holloway lost six games in a row twice (nearly three times), McClaren has lost seven in a row. Holloway won three away games last season, McClaren has won four. McClaren has kept more clean sheets but lost more games. I really don't see a great deal of difference stats wise. | | | |
| Getting away with it on 11:20 - Mar 3 with 1969 views | paulparker |
| Getting away with it on 10:09 - Mar 3 by isawqpratwcity |
Wanna talk about the stats? |
Stats ??? If you want to go by stats that would mean Iain diaries was our most successful manager |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Getting away with it on 11:22 - Mar 3 with 1967 views | traininvain |
| Getting away with it on 11:18 - Mar 3 by Northernr |
Exactly that. And that's why I don't think there's a great deal of hunger for another change. Most seem to recognise that it doesn't really make a difference who's in charge, as our league positions over the last few seasons show. We've basically been sixteenth for four years now, under four different managers. |
Exactly. Long runs without winning, getting spanked away from home at Brentford, Fulham etc. This isn’t some new phenomenon under McClaren. It’s been going on for years.
But I’m sure we’ll back here in a year’s time discussing replacements for whoever happens to be in charge after another away defeat to Brentford. |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 11:42 - Mar 3 with 1915 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Getting away with it on 11:19 - Mar 3 by Northernr |
Yeh actually, which stats are you referring to? We're two points better off and two positions worse off than we were this time last season. It looks about equal to me. Holloway lost six games in a row twice (nearly three times), McClaren has lost seven in a row. Holloway won three away games last season, McClaren has won four. McClaren has kept more clean sheets but lost more games. I really don't see a great deal of difference stats wise. |
I'll use the stats you presented yourself.
So far we've won two more, lost two more and drawn four less, which definitely makes us better off.
"Holloway won three away games last season, McClaren has won four" with a quarter of the season still to come.
And I repeat, that we are where we are having just had the February fixture run from Hell and now fairly clean air in front of us. I'd happily back us to finish above last year from here; wouldn't you? | |
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| Getting away with it on 11:44 - Mar 3 with 1907 views | Northernr |
| Getting away with it on 11:42 - Mar 3 by isawqpratwcity |
I'll use the stats you presented yourself.
So far we've won two more, lost two more and drawn four less, which definitely makes us better off.
"Holloway won three away games last season, McClaren has won four" with a quarter of the season still to come.
And I repeat, that we are where we are having just had the February fixture run from Hell and now fairly clean air in front of us. I'd happily back us to finish above last year from here; wouldn't you? |
It makes us two points better off. Are you really basing your whole tubthumping on this thread and "want me to give you the stats?" on two lousy points? I thought you were going to point out something I'd missed.
I think we'll finish about sixteenth, as I said at the start of the season, and as we were last season. | | | |
| Getting away with it on 12:02 - Mar 3 with 1849 views | Neil_SI |
The club panicked after the way we started the season. They allowed McClaren to bring in some expensive loan signings at the expense of blooding players who needed experience.
That decision was interesting at the time, because, if it was just about survival (which I think it was) then it was overkill to bring Wells, Hemed, Cameron and Rangel in, even if some experience in the ranks was needed.
We steadied the ship a little, and at one stage we looked an outside bet for a play-off push, and if this went well and we miraculously somehow achieved promotion, it would have wiped away any concerns and been worthwhile from a financial point of view. It would have given us the chance to compete a little better in future years even if we then got relegated again (providing they didn't spend promotion money wildly again, which is a big if given our recent history).
But, this losing run eroded that unlikely dream and has now left us in a more awkward circumstance. We've arrived at this point by mainly playing Wells in both our good and bad periods. Hemed, Cameron and Rangel have been sidelined for a lengthy period of time, so it shows we could have probably coped without them, although perhaps asking for an unexpected play-off push required them.
Therefore, we've wasted money doing this, and will lose the majority of these players next season and have another rebuilding job on our hands. Our FFP restrictions mean we may not be able to bring in the same amount or calibre of player, so it's important that our players get playing time.
I think the decision to send many of our players out on loan is the right one in these circumstances. We should prepare as many of them as possible for what could be a more difficult campaign next time around, as well as ensuring the ones still here are being used more regularly too (and that means we might have to suck up some more inconsistent performances and results to boot).
We have the added problem that some of our players are out of contract, and the club may not be able to stop the likes of Freeman or Eze moving on if the money on offer is right.
When you take all of that into account, it's a tough job for any manager, whether it's McClaren or someone else. The club need a bit of luck in this next period in terms of the development of players, but it can also help itself between now and the end of the season with the ones who are still here.
In this recent losing run, when you compare versus other high profile managers, the biggest mistake McClaren made when is he never once shut up shop. He never tried to grind out a 0-0 in the way we did away to a poor Birmingham side earlier in the season. We needed to do that far earlier in the process, as that would have still given us an unlikely shot at maintaining momentum.
It's a worry how many goals we've conceded that have a very Sunday league feel about them. Some of our defending has been really amateur and it's unlikely we're going to be signing a bunch of players capable of eradicating this next season. Hard work needs to be done on the training ground to improve this, and I'm a little alarmed McClaren hasn't done more to sort it out. It reminds me a little bit like Chris Ramsey, who I have a lot of time for, but who also didn't really sort his defensive issues out and it led to his downfall in the end.
Having said that, the players are clearly still with McClaren and that's a positive sign. The performance they gave after being 4-0 down at home to Birmingham proved that. |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 12:21 - Mar 3 with 1803 views | BklynRanger |
Good summary, Neil. Getting the loanees in seemed very much to me like one of those moments we've had throughout recent years - experienced big name manager says that in order to compete we are going to need to strengthen in areas x, y and z. And considering the rut we were in and the apparent risk at that point of spending all season in or around the relegation zone, they decided to agree with him.
In fairness it did do the trick and produced some of the most enjoyable football we'd seen in a long time - halcyon days. But it was all built on an expensive and temporary fix, rather than what we were all led to believe when Schteeeve came in - i.e. defining a pattern of play, building on what Olly and CR had done with the younger ones, integrating them into the team, swallowing a few beatings but with an eye on the future. The biggest irritation for me is that that hasn't really happened. So I don't want McLaren out but after all that talk I'm not sure what we really achieved this season, other than, hopefully, surviving. |  | | |
| Getting away with it on 12:23 - Mar 3 with 1798 views | TacticalR |
It's always a sign that managerial discussions are getting serious when isawqpratwcity starts using italics.  |  |
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| Getting away with it on 12:27 - Mar 3 with 1783 views | TacticalR |
| Getting away with it on 12:21 - Mar 3 by BklynRanger |
Good summary, Neil. Getting the loanees in seemed very much to me like one of those moments we've had throughout recent years - experienced big name manager says that in order to compete we are going to need to strengthen in areas x, y and z. And considering the rut we were in and the apparent risk at that point of spending all season in or around the relegation zone, they decided to agree with him.
In fairness it did do the trick and produced some of the most enjoyable football we'd seen in a long time - halcyon days. But it was all built on an expensive and temporary fix, rather than what we were all led to believe when Schteeeve came in - i.e. defining a pattern of play, building on what Olly and CR had done with the younger ones, integrating them into the team, swallowing a few beatings but with an eye on the future. The biggest irritation for me is that that hasn't really happened. So I don't want McLaren out but after all that talk I'm not sure what we really achieved this season, other than, hopefully, surviving. |
You might say that the disastrous start to the season worked out to McClaren's advantage (if you were feeling cynical). | |
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| Getting away with it on 12:33 - Mar 3 with 1761 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Getting away with it on 11:44 - Mar 3 by Northernr |
It makes us two points better off. Are you really basing your whole tubthumping on this thread and "want me to give you the stats?" on two lousy points? I thought you were going to point out something I'd missed.
I think we'll finish about sixteenth, as I said at the start of the season, and as we were last season. |
It's the same number of lousy points that you need when you reply to those who claim we were at real risk of being relegated in 2017: "But we weren't relegated, were we?" And we still have a quarter of the season to come. I only chimed in on this thread because after three pages of 'Holloway was treated worse than McClaren' tub-thumping, I'd had enough.
Ok, I'll go 15th or above and definitely better points than last year. We won't finish 16th. We are where we are because we've just had a bastard of a run. I'd tip a higher finish but there's three clubs 13th to 15th with a game in hand. | |
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| Getting away with it on 12:50 - Mar 3 with 1708 views | paulparker |
The other thing to consider is has Mclaren actually improved any of the players? I’m struggling to think of anyone who has really gone up another level considering Mclaren is this wonder coach | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Getting away with it on 13:02 - Mar 3 with 1674 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Getting away with it on 12:02 - Mar 3 by Neil_SI |
The club panicked after the way we started the season. They allowed McClaren to bring in some expensive loan signings at the expense of blooding players who needed experience.
That decision was interesting at the time, because, if it was just about survival (which I think it was) then it was overkill to bring Wells, Hemed, Cameron and Rangel in, even if some experience in the ranks was needed.
We steadied the ship a little, and at one stage we looked an outside bet for a play-off push, and if this went well and we miraculously somehow achieved promotion, it would have wiped away any concerns and been worthwhile from a financial point of view. It would have given us the chance to compete a little better in future years even if we then got relegated again (providing they didn't spend promotion money wildly again, which is a big if given our recent history).
But, this losing run eroded that unlikely dream and has now left us in a more awkward circumstance. We've arrived at this point by mainly playing Wells in both our good and bad periods. Hemed, Cameron and Rangel have been sidelined for a lengthy period of time, so it shows we could have probably coped without them, although perhaps asking for an unexpected play-off push required them.
Therefore, we've wasted money doing this, and will lose the majority of these players next season and have another rebuilding job on our hands. Our FFP restrictions mean we may not be able to bring in the same amount or calibre of player, so it's important that our players get playing time.
I think the decision to send many of our players out on loan is the right one in these circumstances. We should prepare as many of them as possible for what could be a more difficult campaign next time around, as well as ensuring the ones still here are being used more regularly too (and that means we might have to suck up some more inconsistent performances and results to boot).
We have the added problem that some of our players are out of contract, and the club may not be able to stop the likes of Freeman or Eze moving on if the money on offer is right.
When you take all of that into account, it's a tough job for any manager, whether it's McClaren or someone else. The club need a bit of luck in this next period in terms of the development of players, but it can also help itself between now and the end of the season with the ones who are still here.
In this recent losing run, when you compare versus other high profile managers, the biggest mistake McClaren made when is he never once shut up shop. He never tried to grind out a 0-0 in the way we did away to a poor Birmingham side earlier in the season. We needed to do that far earlier in the process, as that would have still given us an unlikely shot at maintaining momentum.
It's a worry how many goals we've conceded that have a very Sunday league feel about them. Some of our defending has been really amateur and it's unlikely we're going to be signing a bunch of players capable of eradicating this next season. Hard work needs to be done on the training ground to improve this, and I'm a little alarmed McClaren hasn't done more to sort it out. It reminds me a little bit like Chris Ramsey, who I have a lot of time for, but who also didn't really sort his defensive issues out and it led to his downfall in the end.
Having said that, the players are clearly still with McClaren and that's a positive sign. The performance they gave after being 4-0 down at home to Birmingham proved that. |
Some fair observations, Neil.
I don't think we over-compensated with our four loanees. We lost a fair bit of expertise and experience last summer and have been slipping backwards in the absence of Cameron and Rangel in particular. I also agree that unless our youngsters are reasonably sure of getting regular appearances (and up to a certain standard), then they should be out on loan getting solid playing time.
How could McClaren 'shut up shop' with his quite apparent defensive problems?
I don't think we need worry about an FFP-free rush of blood from Fernandes. This season was our last chance for the foreseeable future to show that we were an outside chance for promotion. Next season is gonna be OMG tough. | |
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