| Could the trust be doomed? 15:16 - Nov 6 with 26054 views | NOTRAC |
I am not sure about this, but because of the way the ownership of the shares in Swansea City have actually been made, it might be that two "owners" could allow the American investors virtual control of the Club, without recourse to the present Board of Directors, the Trust,or the remaining shareholders.
We are often told that Martin Morgan and his wife own 225,000 shares in the club and that Brian Ketzon owns 200,000 shares which together equate to 50% of the total shares issued.
In fact they actually own no shares at all.The shares are owned by Oth Limited (225,000 shares) and Five Thirty Limited (161216shares) and T L R Investments Limited (38784shares)
It can be assumed therefore that Oth Limited is owned by Martin Morgan and his wife, and the other two companies by Brian Ketzon and family.
Without knowing of any legal restrictions,both Martin Morgan and Brian Ketzon could sell their shares in Oth Limited, Five Thirty Limited and T L R Investments Limited without any recourse to Swansea City Football Club and let in the Americans through the back door.The shares as such would not have changed hands, they are still owned by the same Companies (where incidentally they are shown as investments on the Balance Sheets of those Companies), it is just that the Americans have control of those shares.
If the above is legally feasible, then the Americans could contain absolute control by buying in exactly the same way the shares allegedly owned by Dineen but which are in fact owned by Bulk Vending Limited and Van Zweden whose shares are owned by Swansea Jacks Limited.
If the above scenario was possible,and I know of no reason why legally it is not, then the Trust would be powerless to stop it, and would receive nothing for their shares
I would hope there are provisions in place to stop the above happening, otherwise the Trust could be doomed. |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:51 - Nov 8 with 1153 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:44 - Nov 8 by trampie |
I have heard it said in some quarters that they were treated so well by their Welsh employers that they wanted to take their name ?, then on the other hand you hear a totally different story. |
I think you mean 'owners' rather than 'employers'.
I have no idea whether they were treated well, badly or middling. It's all bit bit blooming irrelevant though really isn't it? I don't think the slaves of the Welsh ended up with their 40 acres and a mule any more than the slaves owned by any other nationality. | | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:58 - Nov 8 with 1141 views | trampie |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:51 - Nov 8 by londonlisa2001 |
I think you mean 'owners' rather than 'employers'.
I have no idea whether they were treated well, badly or middling. It's all bit bit blooming irrelevant though really isn't it? I don't think the slaves of the Welsh ended up with their 40 acres and a mule any more than the slaves owned by any other nationality. |
Lots of them apparently went to chapel, I've heard that Welsh chapel ministers and chapel goers were reasonable considering the time, place and era. [Post edited 8 Nov 2014 23:59]
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:00 - Nov 9 with 1131 views | _ |
Hey course it does...
Anything can be dressed up one way or another... That's the way the world ticks over eh?! It's why I hate taking my car in for a service (the directors wouldn't have that worry)
Let's talk of the two Trust Directors...
One is now allegedly pushing for a deal to sell the club down the swanny(?) and after obtaining his shares, how? How Whitney?
And the other is just the lucky guy that just so happens gets the tender 0.01p less than the nearest competitor.
Oh, and that goes for a lot of the Landore work, the vending machines in the stadium (seen any of them?) and the legal work...
Geez, we are so lucky we've got these guys willing to do these jobs cheaper than ANYONE else...
Or are we?
More questions like the ones from ARQS and Dav please...
Let's not stop here... Time for answers please. |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:02 - Nov 9 with 1118 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:24 - Nov 8 by londonlisa2001 |
I agree with you.
I also would say that I completely believe the point that Darran made. The 'arms length' bit doesn't only ensure that work is done at a commercial rate, the need to be able to so clearly demonstrate value is such that I would completely expect any work done by a related party to be done more cheaply than would otherwise be possible.
It is of course an advantage to the supplier to get the work (I don't imagine that any work would be done at a loss) but it would also almost certainly be an advantage to the company (in this case the Swans) as well since to go elsewhere would cost more.
I think we should be careful to avoid the trap of suddenly thinking that the board are a bunch of shady wide boys (or at least I'm going to avoid it).
I personally would prefer the club to remain in its current ownership as I've said before, and I also believe that some (maybe not all) of the current shareholders are looking to 'cash in'. However, this doesn't in my mind change the achievements of the past 10 or 11 years. |
Weak Lisa...
And this is exactly the reason I'd rather see Shaky get his hands dirty... | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:03 - Nov 9 with 1114 views | Darran |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:00 - Nov 9 by _ |
Hey course it does...
Anything can be dressed up one way or another... That's the way the world ticks over eh?! It's why I hate taking my car in for a service (the directors wouldn't have that worry)
Let's talk of the two Trust Directors...
One is now allegedly pushing for a deal to sell the club down the swanny(?) and after obtaining his shares, how? How Whitney?
And the other is just the lucky guy that just so happens gets the tender 0.01p less than the nearest competitor.
Oh, and that goes for a lot of the Landore work, the vending machines in the stadium (seen any of them?) and the legal work...
Geez, we are so lucky we've got these guys willing to do these jobs cheaper than ANYONE else...
Or are we?
More questions like the ones from ARQS and Dav please...
Let's not stop here... Time for answers please. |
Allegedly.  |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:05 - Nov 9 with 1111 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:03 - Nov 9 by Darran |
Allegedly. |
Are you trying to insinuate he definiteky is then? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:08 - Nov 9 with 1104 views | JackToff |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:46 - Nov 8 by Witneyjack |
But surely, if by getting an "inside track" it saves our club money on work that needed doing, it is a good thing? As Lisa said earlier, let's not let this 'takeover' issue cloud our judgment on the Board of Directors. |
If they were the cheapest tender on a fair and even basis. However IF they knew what the other tenders were then they would not have to go so low to win, a major advantage and may mean the club not getting best VFM. However that is just a small point I responded to from the posts of others including yourself.
The important issue is to make the most of what we have and ensure that the best and most able / experienced people are in roles like the commercial one where a massive difference can be made in terms of income. "Investment" may then not be an issue nor massive interest payments and potentially selling our club upriver to possibly minimal effect.
Why suddenly such a dramatic change in stance? We know if the Trust stand against this it could significantly affect the price per share. Is selling at the top of the market more important than selling to the right people and leaving the trust in a strong position? | | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:08 - Nov 9 with 1104 views | Darran |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:05 - Nov 9 by _ |
Are you trying to insinuate he definiteky is then? |
No I'm f*cking not. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:08 - Nov 9 with 1100 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:02 - Nov 9 by _ |
Weak Lisa...
And this is exactly the reason I'd rather see Shaky get his hands dirty... |
good for you. Although quite why you are such a supporter of a non Swans fan who frankly doesn't know his arse from his elbow is beyond me. | | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:10 - Nov 9 with 1098 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:08 - Nov 9 by Darran |
No I'm f*cking not. |
You seemed to be laughing at the allegedly bit like its common knowledge that's the case? You also mentioned private messages where you knew more than you could say.
If you are suggesting that he is pushing for the sale of the club I'm not surprised at all. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:13 - Nov 9 with 1070 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:08 - Nov 9 by londonlisa2001 |
good for you. Although quite why you are such a supporter of a non Swans fan who frankly doesn't know his arse from his elbow is beyond me. |
You are making that up and I know that for a fact...
It's not the time for club apologists I dont think | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:15 - Nov 9 with 1062 views | Darran |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:10 - Nov 9 by _ |
You seemed to be laughing at the allegedly bit like its common knowledge that's the case? You also mentioned private messages where you knew more than you could say.
If you are suggesting that he is pushing for the sale of the club I'm not surprised at all. |
Oh I definitely know more than you Christopher but that's not really a lot considering you know absolutely f*ck all. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:16 - Nov 9 with 1053 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:13 - Nov 9 by _ |
You are making that up and I know that for a fact...
It's not the time for club apologists I dont think |
which bit am i making up?? | | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:18 - Nov 9 with 1047 views | Darran |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:16 - Nov 9 by londonlisa2001 |
which bit am i making up?? |
Every bit he doesnt agree with Lisa. 👠| |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:19 - Nov 9 with 1045 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:15 - Nov 9 by Darran |
Oh I definitely know more than you Christopher but that's not really a lot considering you know absolutely f*ck all. |
Yes, you've already just confirmed that.... | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:19 - Nov 9 with 1043 views | Witneyjack |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:13 - Nov 9 by _ |
You are making that up and I know that for a fact...
It's not the time for club apologists I dont think |
Genuine question. Why are you so critical and dismissive of anybody who posts a differing opinion to yours? I thought this was a forum for debate of differing and similar views? |  | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:26 - Nov 9 with 1020 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:19 - Nov 9 by Witneyjack |
Genuine question. Why are you so critical and dismissive of anybody who posts a differing opinion to yours? I thought this was a forum for debate of differing and similar views? |
Maybe you should ask that question to Lisa who does that sort of thing regularly?
In fact, why didn't you?
She said something along the lines of not knowing this or that from ones arse to elbow...
Go... | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:29 - Nov 9 with 1008 views | Witneyjack |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:26 - Nov 9 by _ |
Maybe you should ask that question to Lisa who does that sort of thing regularly?
In fact, why didn't you?
She said something along the lines of not knowing this or that from ones arse to elbow...
Go... |
So you can't or won't answer? No problem , but how can you hope to be taken seriously if that's the attitude you take? | | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:32 - Nov 9 with 998 views | JackToff |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:19 - Nov 9 by Witneyjack |
Genuine question. Why are you so critical and dismissive of anybody who posts a differing opinion to yours? I thought this was a forum for debate of differing and similar views? |
I would say if you consider that poster a main culprit in dismissing the views of others then perhaps you have not been following the thread very closely.
For instance you yourself just seemed to dismiss an earlier comment of mine as irrelevant regardless of the fact it's subject matter was already being discussed including by yourself. Of course that is nowhere near the main example. | | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:34 - Nov 9 with 992 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:26 - Nov 9 by _ |
Maybe you should ask that question to Lisa who does that sort of thing regularly?
In fact, why didn't you?
She said something along the lines of not knowing this or that from ones arse to elbow...
Go... |
no - it was you that posted this
Weak Lisa...
And this is exactly the reason I'd rather see Shaky get his hands dirty...
I am simply asking on what basis you would like him to get involved?
And which bit of what I wrote do you disagree with? | | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:41 - Nov 9 with 977 views | Witneyjack |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:32 - Nov 9 by JackToff |
I would say if you consider that poster a main culprit in dismissing the views of others then perhaps you have not been following the thread very closely.
For instance you yourself just seemed to dismiss an earlier comment of mine as irrelevant regardless of the fact it's subject matter was already being discussed including by yourself. Of course that is nowhere near the main example. |
I thought we were discussing the point. I still can't see the link to the alleged takeover but you are entitled to your opinion. I certainly didn't just write you off and become dismissive of you. | | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:42 - Nov 9 with 974 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:34 - Nov 9 by londonlisa2001 |
no - it was you that posted this
Weak Lisa...
And this is exactly the reason I'd rather see Shaky get his hands dirty...
I am simply asking on what basis you would like him to get involved?
And which bit of what I wrote do you disagree with? |
Well ok, let's go for it... That he doesn't know how his arse from his elbow.
Qualify that one! | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:43 - Nov 9 with 970 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:41 - Nov 9 by Witneyjack |
I thought we were discussing the point. I still can't see the link to the alleged takeover but you are entitled to your opinion. I certainly didn't just write you off and become dismissive of you. |
A bit of a cop out isn't it? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:46 - Nov 9 with 953 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:08 - Nov 9 by JackToff |
If they were the cheapest tender on a fair and even basis. However IF they knew what the other tenders were then they would not have to go so low to win, a major advantage and may mean the club not getting best VFM. However that is just a small point I responded to from the posts of others including yourself.
The important issue is to make the most of what we have and ensure that the best and most able / experienced people are in roles like the commercial one where a massive difference can be made in terms of income. "Investment" may then not be an issue nor massive interest payments and potentially selling our club upriver to possibly minimal effect.
Why suddenly such a dramatic change in stance? We know if the Trust stand against this it could significantly affect the price per share. Is selling at the top of the market more important than selling to the right people and leaving the trust in a strong position? |
Witney....... Up there. ^^^ | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:47 - Nov 9 with 949 views | AngelRangelQS |
I suppose the flip side to those figures is that selling your shares could potentially mean a loss of a lot of cash into your other business interests |  | | |
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