| Most reliable information.Covid-19 23:34 - May 20 with 20094 views | RonaldStump |
So who is providing the most reliable information?
The so called 'Conspiracy Theorists' or the Government (Sage) and their modelling.
Since March 2020 there clearly only one winner here.
Congratulations the so called 'Consiracy Theorists'
Prove me wrong. |  |
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| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 15:24 - Jun 28 with 825 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Continuing with the OP, another Study that gave the wrong answer, this is not one that I found, others found it first and complained.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104983
Looking in to the safety of COVID vaccines for pregnant women.
Table 4 shows the spontaneous abortion rate compared to normal (published) incidence.
It shows the rate for the vaccine at <20wks as 104/827 (12.6) ie 104 Spontanious Abortions from 827 vaccinated ladies.
The problem is in the details, the notes for table 4 show that of the 827 ladies vaccinated 700 were in the 3rd Trimester, which is weeks 28-40, not in less than 20 weeks.
So the true rate for <20wks is 104/127 which equals 82%, not 12.6% as stated.
Of course everyone knows that the authors of the studies know better than some guy on the internet don't they. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 15:29 - Jun 28 with 825 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 15:23 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
The circumstances of double vaccinated deaths has been explained on here previously. Why anyone needs it explained is beyond me, but there we are. The key point is these stats. They also make the Lancet article sort of irrelevant.
Unvaccinated cases = 53,822
Single Vaccination cases = 19957
Double Vaccination cases = 7,235
Without vaccination the risk of death in the group that have received a double dose is massively higher due to age and other conditions. The vaccine is reducing that risk substantially.
Apparently being vaccinated reduces the substantial risk of death that a typical 80 year old would be faced with if they contracted Covid to that of a 50 year old. That is IF they caught covid at all despite being vaccinated. Those stats clearly show that is less likely too.
It is also worth clarifying these stats regarding mortality.
Unvaccinated = 38.6%
Single Vaccinated = 17.5%
Double Vaccinated = 43.9%
The unvaccinated people are those usually perceived to be not at risk. They are at risk and they do die.
Here is an article that explains it.
https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-peopl
Surely those stats should convince anyone to get vaccinated. |
Sorry, it sounds like a good story, except for the fact that of the 44 unvaccinated deaths only 6 were under 50.
Of the single vaccinated only 2 were under 50.
So without the exact age distribution and comorbidities that article is meaningless.
In fact they couldn't even get their details correct "The PHE report also reveals that nearly a third of deaths from the Delta variant are of unvaccinated people over 50"
Not nearly a third, but 86% were over 50.
The point is it did not protect those vaccinated people did it?
Yes or No? [Post edited 28 Jun 2021 15:39]
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| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 15:46 - Jun 28 with 816 views | Scotia |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 15:29 - Jun 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
Sorry, it sounds like a good story, except for the fact that of the 44 unvaccinated deaths only 6 were under 50.
Of the single vaccinated only 2 were under 50.
So without the exact age distribution and comorbidities that article is meaningless.
In fact they couldn't even get their details correct "The PHE report also reveals that nearly a third of deaths from the Delta variant are of unvaccinated people over 50"
Not nearly a third, but 86% were over 50.
The point is it did not protect those vaccinated people did it?
Yes or No? [Post edited 28 Jun 2021 15:39]
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Yes. Unequivocally. Surely it is blindingly obvious?
Unvaccinated cases = 53,822
Single Vaccination cases = 19957
Double Vaccination cases = 7,235
How many under 50's died despite being double unvaccinated?
Of course older people are more likely to die if they get covid. That's why they were vaccinated first. They are still at risk despite being vaccinated but that risk is massively reduced.
Anyone aged over 50 who declines the vaccine is putting themselves at huge risk. Your posts clearly demonstrated that. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 15:57 - Jun 28 with 800 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 15:46 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
Yes. Unequivocally. Surely it is blindingly obvious?
Unvaccinated cases = 53,822
Single Vaccination cases = 19957
Double Vaccination cases = 7,235
How many under 50's died despite being double unvaccinated?
Of course older people are more likely to die if they get covid. That's why they were vaccinated first. They are still at risk despite being vaccinated but that risk is massively reduced.
Anyone aged over 50 who declines the vaccine is putting themselves at huge risk. Your posts clearly demonstrated that. |
Did it protect those vaccinated people that died?
Yes or No? | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:20 - Jun 28 with 797 views | controversial_jack |
Someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially takes on the risk of an unvaccinated person of around 50 - much lower, but still not nothing, and so we can expect some deaths," the statisticians said.
The UK has recorded a total of 117 deaths in people with the Delta coronavirus variant.
Fifty were among people who'd taken two doses of vaccines - a reminder that the shots are imperfect.
It's not really protecting the vulnerable and those that need it | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:29 - Jun 28 with 788 views | Scotia |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 15:57 - Jun 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
Did it protect those vaccinated people that died?
Yes or No? |
No.
But it protected the 10's of thousands thousands who didn't get infected, those that didn't get seriously ill and those that didn't die. It will continue to do so.
Stupid and pointless question. Your post bears it out. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:30 - Jun 28 with 787 views | Scotia |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:20 - Jun 28 by controversial_jack |
Someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially takes on the risk of an unvaccinated person of around 50 - much lower, but still not nothing, and so we can expect some deaths," the statisticians said.
The UK has recorded a total of 117 deaths in people with the Delta coronavirus variant.
Fifty were among people who'd taken two doses of vaccines - a reminder that the shots are imperfect.
It's not really protecting the vulnerable and those that need it |
How do you work that out | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:39 - Jun 28 with 782 views | controversial_jack |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:30 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
How do you work that out |
Those over 80 have the same protection as an unvaccinated person of 50, so what about those of 90 and more. that's not very good protection at all. 50 and 60 years olds were dying during the second wave. What if the over 80s have underlying conditions, that reduces the protection further | | | |
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| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:52 - Jun 28 with 780 views | Scotia |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:39 - Jun 28 by controversial_jack |
Those over 80 have the same protection as an unvaccinated person of 50, so what about those of 90 and more. that's not very good protection at all. 50 and 60 years olds were dying during the second wave. What if the over 80s have underlying conditions, that reduces the protection further |
That is an absolutely massive improvement. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 17:17 - Jun 28 with 775 views | Professor |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:52 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
That is an absolutely massive improvement. |
The best (current) retrospective studies suggest in 2020 the SARS CoV2 mortality rate was 0.66% in developed nations (studies range between 0.5-1.8%). In over 80s this was 7.8%.
The current UK mortality rate is around 0.01%. I in 10,000 compared to 1 in 150 a year ago.
The CDC figures suggest over 75s are seven times more likely to die than 50-65 year olds and over 85s seventeen times more likely.
Those improvements are enormous. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 18:19 - Jun 28 with 756 views | controversial_jack |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:52 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
That is an absolutely massive improvement. |
It's an improvement for younger fitter ppl, but the older and vulnerable not so much | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 18:29 - Jun 28 with 749 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 16:29 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
No.
But it protected the 10's of thousands thousands who didn't get infected, those that didn't get seriously ill and those that didn't die. It will continue to do so.
Stupid and pointless question. Your post bears it out. |
"But it protected the 10's of thousands thousands who didn't get infected, those that didn't get seriously ill and those that didn't die"
That is where you miss the point, because 53,822 got infected and only 44 died which is 0.08% with no Vaccine protection and very little medication.
Proper Medication would have drastically reduced those numbers.
Whereas 27,192 vaccinated still got infected and 70 of them died which is 0.26%, but for double vaccinated people it was 0.69%.
Which is why you should have read the Lancet report for a better understanding of what the original Vaccine trials did not test for.
They also would have benefitted from the those drugs that you say don't work. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 18:43 - Jun 28 with 744 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 18:19 - Jun 28 by controversial_jack |
It's an improvement for younger fitter ppl, but the older and vulnerable not so much |
No it is not even better for younger fitter people, not if the USA studies are anything to go by.
Especially for those males under 50 the US Vaccines are actaully statistically as dangerous as the desease and get more dangerous the younger you go.
For those males under 20 they are very much more dangerous than the desease and it is an absolute disgrace that the CDC ACIP committee has refused to ban the Vaccines for under 20s and not only that they are still recommending them.
They even recommend a second dose if the 1st one gave them Myocarditis or they have already suffered from Myocarditis for some other reason.
Here are some numbers from that meeting on Myocarditis the values are for the numbers actually vaccinated.
Age expected observed
12-17 0-4 128
18-24 1-8 219
25-29 1-7 59
30-39 1-16 61
40-49 2-16 34
Bear in mind that these numbers represent a very small sample of the actual numbers because of the backlog on VAERs. [Post edited 28 Jun 2021 18:46]
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| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 19:07 - Jun 28 with 739 views | Scotia |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 18:19 - Jun 28 by controversial_jack |
It's an improvement for younger fitter ppl, but the older and vulnerable not so much |
No. Its a massive improvement for the vulnerable people, more so than the younger generation. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 19:35 - Jun 28 with 727 views | Scotia |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 18:29 - Jun 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
"But it protected the 10's of thousands thousands who didn't get infected, those that didn't get seriously ill and those that didn't die"
That is where you miss the point, because 53,822 got infected and only 44 died which is 0.08% with no Vaccine protection and very little medication.
Proper Medication would have drastically reduced those numbers.
Whereas 27,192 vaccinated still got infected and 70 of them died which is 0.26%, but for double vaccinated people it was 0.69%.
Which is why you should have read the Lancet report for a better understanding of what the original Vaccine trials did not test for.
They also would have benefitted from the those drugs that you say don't work. |
This is a classic case of you misunderstanding and misinterpreting the stats.
Why do you think those who contracted covid without being vaccinated had such a low case fatality rate?
Conversely why do you think proportionately more people have died after getting both doses than one dose? | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 19:53 - Jun 28 with 718 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 19:35 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
This is a classic case of you misunderstanding and misinterpreting the stats.
Why do you think those who contracted covid without being vaccinated had such a low case fatality rate?
Conversely why do you think proportionately more people have died after getting both doses than one dose? |
I have already told you without the ages and co-morbitities of all the patients in both groups there is no verifiable way to know.
Anything else is pure assumption.
Not that it matters, I am not the one who has been saying for months the only way for everybody to be safe is for everyone to get vaccinated.
I don't have to justify anything, the numbers are just the numbers.
They just prove it was never true, they don't stop it spreading, they don't stop you getting it, they don't stop you getting very ill and they don't stop you from dying of COVID.
They slow and reduce the spread and illness and for this, successful medication information has been suppressed right from the start of the Pandemic at a massive cost in lives. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 19:57 - Jun 28 with 715 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 19:07 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
No. Its a massive improvement for the vulnerable people, more so than the younger generation. |
Look at the results of just Myocarditis for the young, let alone clots and other issues.
Like I said before under no circumstances should the under 20s be vaccinated and yet in the USA they are being blackmailed in to it, No Vaccine then No College or University and No Sport. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 20:36 - Jun 28 with 706 views | Scotia |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 19:53 - Jun 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
I have already told you without the ages and co-morbitities of all the patients in both groups there is no verifiable way to know.
Anything else is pure assumption.
Not that it matters, I am not the one who has been saying for months the only way for everybody to be safe is for everyone to get vaccinated.
I don't have to justify anything, the numbers are just the numbers.
They just prove it was never true, they don't stop it spreading, they don't stop you getting it, they don't stop you getting very ill and they don't stop you from dying of COVID.
They slow and reduce the spread and illness and for this, successful medication information has been suppressed right from the start of the Pandemic at a massive cost in lives. |
At these kind of numbers the metadata at individual level isn't really important. It would be relevant for deaths as the numbers are smaller, but it can be inferred with confidence and common sense.
We know the population that was prioritised for the vaccine and were the first to receive both doses. We know the demographics of the population in which the virus is spreading.
They are very different groups.
The numbers absolutely clearly demonstrate that they stop you getting covid, stop you getting ill and stop you dying.
I suspect the Delta variant is more able to be spread by a vaccinated person than other variants however if you aren't going to get ill it doesn't really matter.
That points to the importance of getting vaccinated, especially if you are in a vulnerable group.
Anyone over 50 who hasn't received the vaccine should be very worried about what's to come after restrictions are eased. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 20:47 - Jun 28 with 696 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 20:36 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
At these kind of numbers the metadata at individual level isn't really important. It would be relevant for deaths as the numbers are smaller, but it can be inferred with confidence and common sense.
We know the population that was prioritised for the vaccine and were the first to receive both doses. We know the demographics of the population in which the virus is spreading.
They are very different groups.
The numbers absolutely clearly demonstrate that they stop you getting covid, stop you getting ill and stop you dying.
I suspect the Delta variant is more able to be spread by a vaccinated person than other variants however if you aren't going to get ill it doesn't really matter.
That points to the importance of getting vaccinated, especially if you are in a vulnerable group.
Anyone over 50 who hasn't received the vaccine should be very worried about what's to come after restrictions are eased. |
"The numbers absolutely clearly demonstrate that they stop you getting covid, stop you getting ill and stop you dying. "
Lies. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 21:06 - Jun 28 with 683 views | Scotia |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 20:47 - Jun 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
"The numbers absolutely clearly demonstrate that they stop you getting covid, stop you getting ill and stop you dying. "
Lies. |
Well you've posted figures that could be said to demonstrate an 87% efficacy in preventing symptomatic covid after two doses of the vaccine.
Are your figures wrong? | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 21:14 - Jun 28 with 680 views | Scotia |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 19:57 - Jun 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
Look at the results of just Myocarditis for the young, let alone clots and other issues.
Like I said before under no circumstances should the under 20s be vaccinated and yet in the USA they are being blackmailed in to it, No Vaccine then No College or University and No Sport. |
As I understand myocarditis often occurs after a viral infection. It usually isn't a serious complaint and the risk is tiny.
There's a good chance these people would have developed myocarditis after getting covid. And they would get covid at some point. | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 21:24 - Jun 28 with 671 views | Professor |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 21:14 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
As I understand myocarditis often occurs after a viral infection. It usually isn't a serious complaint and the risk is tiny.
There's a good chance these people would have developed myocarditis after getting covid. And they would get covid at some point. |
Very much so. Very common post infection and thankfully often transient. Pericarditis more problematic | | | |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 21:27 - Jun 28 with 669 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Most reliable information.Covid-19 on 21:06 - Jun 28 by Scotia |
Well you've posted figures that could be said to demonstrate an 87% efficacy in preventing symptomatic covid after two doses of the vaccine.
Are your figures wrong? |
They do not show that at all.
I am amazed that with a University education you do understand the difference between the word stop and possibly reduce the chances of or reduce the chances of. | | | |
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