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"EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU. "British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI - the BDI - has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. "The only change - and it will not come in any great rush - is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU's extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal."
We're far better off out. Common sense has prevailed over fearmongering. The Eu will very soon be an ex parrot pushing up the daisies and it'll be not a day too soon.
Full of substance then...
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Boris backtracking on 18:39 - Jun 30 with 1728 views
We're far better off out. Common sense has prevailed over fearmongering. The Eu will very soon be an ex parrot pushing up the daisies and it'll be not a day too soon.
To use your usual debating tactic, you've no idea if we're "better off out" just as no one else has any idea whether we'd be better off staying in.
Brown did work in the Scottish independence campaign. They quite like him up there. Quite why they thought the same trick would work in the rest of the U.K. is beyond me.
I doubt he changed a single vote...they used to like him up there...they used to like labour too. He's built a nice myth for himself that it was him that won it though. Rolling him out UK wide was beyond belief.
I'm not even sure we have a true democracy in this country now...on the basis that politicians are allowed to blatantly tell lies when campaigning (think £350m, the leaflets i had through my door stating Syria (!) is about to join the EU and all the backtracking from 'leave' polticians). The real power in our country lies with the tabloids. The daily mail , The Sun and a few others ran anti EU propoganda every day leading up to the referendum and including it. Gove's leaked email today showed just how important it is to have backing of media owners (references to Murdoch and Dacre).
We all have to 'suck it up' now...doesn't change the fact that everything now is in a complete mess.
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Boris backtracking on 20:08 - Jun 30 with 1598 views
I were only avin a laff Dean baby while me fish fingers are cooking.
Yes you are right the amount of misinformed idiots casting a vote to leave is shocking,some dont even know wtf they are voting for.
But similarly, I would say there would be an equal number of idiots doing the same thing in the remain camp.
But like it or not...that is democracy for you and we all have to live with it. Over 1.6 million votes more in the leave camp than remain does send out a strong message to the establishment who wanted us firmly to remain.....
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
We've established that I can say with a high degree of certainty that those who voted leave were naïve at best. I honestly don't know how people could have done their research beforehand and not seen that 1) the leave campaigners were not telling the truth 2) their pledges could not be implemented 3) it would leave the country in a complete mess for quite some time.
Nobody can talk about 10-15 years but certainly for 5 years at least this country is going to be worse off. Trade deals take way longer than two years to negotiate and implement. The time and money that will need to be spent looking at which EU laws to keep and which to get rid of doesn't bare thinking about. The negotiation process with the EU is going to be completely embarrassing for this country because we already had a very good deal with the EU and we rejected them. We now need to grovel to keep some of the perks while supposedly not allowing them to 'dictate' (as leave campaigners put it) anything to us in future and while asking that we don't have to accept free movement, a condition which they have clearly stated is non negotiable if we want access to said perks (like the single market).
It must be the biggest f*ck up that this country has ever made. And there ARE things that can be said with certainty...assuming we do push ahead with article 50, it is going to make things very difficult for working age British citizens to move and work in Europe without great difficulty and for older citizens to retire there without limited rights. It is also highly likely (as was obvious beforehand) that Scotland will be break away now leaving 'the UK' to be just Wales, England and NI. Essentially the land that British citizens had to live in freely will have gone from the whole of Europe to those three small countries.
I repeat, biggest f*ck up that this country has ever made. And I haven't even gone into any detail about the economy or our political strength.
You haven't established anything, you've offered your opinion, which I respect but don't agree with.
1. Are you telling me that the remain campaign were truthful in all that they said?
2. Main pledge: leave the EU, additional pledges negotiate trade deals with the EU and the rest of the world, take control of our borders and to be in control of our own destiny — much like any other country — all achievable. Yes there were other pledges but these, for me, are the most important.
3. It won’t be as bad as what project fear predicted, but in the short term there will obviously be a period of transition. I’m willing to accept a period of transition because I think our long term prospects will be better served outside of the EU trading with Europe and beyond.
Will Scotland vote for independence? No guarantee that they will, 33% didn’t vote in the referendum, and of those who did vote 38% voted to leave, so no guarantee that Scotland will vote for independence.
How do other countries manage to do just fine outside of the EU? And why are some people so convinced about our inability to be successful? What country will be next to vote out?
I respect your opinion, but your post is full of opinion and guesswork, just because you use the word fact doesn’t make it so, and using the word certainty doesn’t make your opinion anymore factual.
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Boris backtracking on 21:14 - Jun 30 with 1508 views
You haven't established anything, you've offered your opinion, which I respect but don't agree with.
1. Are you telling me that the remain campaign were truthful in all that they said?
2. Main pledge: leave the EU, additional pledges negotiate trade deals with the EU and the rest of the world, take control of our borders and to be in control of our own destiny — much like any other country — all achievable. Yes there were other pledges but these, for me, are the most important.
3. It won’t be as bad as what project fear predicted, but in the short term there will obviously be a period of transition. I’m willing to accept a period of transition because I think our long term prospects will be better served outside of the EU trading with Europe and beyond.
Will Scotland vote for independence? No guarantee that they will, 33% didn’t vote in the referendum, and of those who did vote 38% voted to leave, so no guarantee that Scotland will vote for independence.
How do other countries manage to do just fine outside of the EU? And why are some people so convinced about our inability to be successful? What country will be next to vote out?
I respect your opinion, but your post is full of opinion and guesswork, just because you use the word fact doesn’t make it so, and using the word certainty doesn’t make your opinion anymore factual.
I believe that remain campaigners were far more truthful than the leave camp. It was always wrong to call it 'project fear'. If I manage a project then it is my job and my duty to outline the risks based on what the experts say. The prime minister and others did that quite fairly. John Major summed it all up perfectly in his interviews, highlighting the risks and the leave camp lies. He also explained why the leave campaign was doing so well:
“There is not a single international authority that has anything kind to say about Britain’s future if we leave the European Union. To fight for the status quo, to fight for the future international prestige of the United Kingdom is a much more difficult case to put across than the simple mantras of ‘we want our country back’.”
This article also summarises the situation pretty well. Both how much leave voters were mislead and also how much it has destablilised our country:
Boris backtracking on 18:32 - Jun 30 by longlostjack
Great post. If only the Remain campaign had tried to explain the benefits of membership instead of the negative campaigning. The problem being of course that Cameron had said that he would be prepared to leave if he felt the deal wasn't right. To then say that it would be a disaster to leave didn't wash. Thank God the even bigger Eton buffoon isn't standing. On other side, don't get me started on Corbyn and what was the name of the Liberal leader?
The thing is the remain camp were competing with all of the tabloids (who did the real fearmongering about mass immigration and terrorism), the voters who didn't think leave could win so voted leave anyway, the protest voters and those who believed that there would be no fallout from a brexit (i.e. they believed that everything the remain camp said was 'project fear')
People may not like him but John Major was maybe the best speaker on brexit but nowhere near as loud and charismatic as someone like Boris Johnson.
John Major on the EU referendum | FT World:
People have to remember that Cameron was negotiating with the EU. He had to call their bluff by making claims to the people about being prepared to pull us out, in order to help his negotiations. And yeah you're right, Corbyn was barely seen despite supposedly wanting us to stay. The whole thing was a disaster..and the promised street parties and celebrations were never seen. I think maybe only Farage really wanted us to leave the EU and look at how he is behaving now with the very people we are supposed to be negotiating with soon. Such a bloody mess.
[Post edited 30 Jun 2016 23:46]
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Boris backtracking on 06:26 - Jul 1 with 1378 views
I doubt he changed a single vote...they used to like him up there...they used to like labour too. He's built a nice myth for himself that it was him that won it though. Rolling him out UK wide was beyond belief.
There's a lot of myths that follow the Rt. Hon Gordon Brown around Monny...
I'm not even sure we have a true democracy in this country now...on the basis that politicians are allowed to blatantly tell lies when campaigning (think £350m, the leaflets i had through my door stating Syria (!) is about to join the EU and all the backtracking from 'leave' polticians). The real power in our country lies with the tabloids. The daily mail , The Sun and a few others ran anti EU propoganda every day leading up to the referendum and including it. Gove's leaked email today showed just how important it is to have backing of media owners (references to Murdoch and Dacre).
We all have to 'suck it up' now...doesn't change the fact that everything now is in a complete mess.
In what votes do politicians not tell lies? Why are people acting like this is a recent development purely used by the exit campaign? There were massive untruths told on both sides.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Boris backtracking on 10:00 - Jul 1 with 1303 views
In what votes do politicians not tell lies? Why are people acting like this is a recent development purely used by the exit campaign? There were massive untruths told on both sides.
I find this comment frustrating.
You're implying that there were inaccuracies on both sides, so all in all one side was not more dishonest than the other.
This is wrong. The exaggerations and, in some cases, flat out lies, were made far more frequently by the Leave campaign.
It was not equal.
[Post edited 1 Jul 2016 10:10]
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Boris backtracking on 10:24 - Jul 1 with 1287 views
In what votes do politicians not tell lies? Why are people acting like this is a recent development purely used by the exit campaign? There were massive untruths told on both sides.
Watch that John Major interview that I posted if you get a chance. He summarises it perfectly. But people preferred to listen to aboris Johnson rant and rave about 'independence day'.
This was way too important a decison to be left to the public when lies could be freely told and most people wouldn't have bothered to do their own research.
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Boris backtracking on 10:36 - Jul 1 with 1275 views
Boris backtracking on 10:00 - Jul 1 by nice_to_michu
I find this comment frustrating.
You're implying that there were inaccuracies on both sides, so all in all one side was not more dishonest than the other.
This is wrong. The exaggerations and, in some cases, flat out lies, were made far more frequently by the Leave campaign.
It was not equal.
[Post edited 1 Jul 2016 10:10]
Of course it was equal. The whole remain campaign was based on the threat of a swirling and instant biblical apocalypse. Farages campaign was based on the threat of hoardes of swarthy eyed dark skinned feral humans swarming in to rape you and your entire families. Boris's campaign was based on a basic and blatant economic untruth about chucking all the money saved into the nhs.
It was an absolute disaster with all sides resorting to lowest common denominator politics.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Of course it was equal. The whole remain campaign was based on the threat of a swirling and instant biblical apocalypse. Farages campaign was based on the threat of hoardes of swarthy eyed dark skinned feral humans swarming in to rape you and your entire families. Boris's campaign was based on a basic and blatant economic untruth about chucking all the money saved into the nhs.
It was an absolute disaster with all sides resorting to lowest common denominator politics.
"The whole remain campaign was based on the threat of a swirling and instant biblical apocalypse"
What were these claims and can anyone honestly say that the financial situation right now, or the financial prognosis for the next few years at least is a desirable one?
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Boris backtracking on 10:46 - Jul 1 with 1241 views
"The whole remain campaign was based on the threat of a swirling and instant biblical apocalypse"
What were these claims and can anyone honestly say that the financial situation right now, or the financial prognosis for the next few years at least is a desirable one?
"The whole remain campaign was based on the threat of a swirling and instant biblical apocalypse"
What were these claims and can anyone honestly say that the financial situation right now, or the financial prognosis for the next few years at least is a desirable one?
The financial situation right now is pretty much the exact situation we had last week, and the week before. Nothing much has changed.
As for the future, well you'll just have to get your crystal ball out for that one just like everything else that might happen in the future.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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. And can someone tell Phaedrus he's now on my ignore list. 
