| Boris backtracking 07:20 - Jun 27 with 12921 views | sherpajacob |
Is this what leavers voted for?
"EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.
"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI - the BDI - has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.
"The only change - and it will not come in any great rush - is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU's extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal." |  |
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| Boris backtracking on 19:58 - Jun 27 with 1339 views | monmouth |
Does Wikipedia's Wikipedia page have a Wikipedia page? |  |
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| Boris backtracking on 00:58 - Jun 28 with 1265 views | DJack |
| Boris backtracking on 19:58 - Jun 27 by monmouth |
Does Wikipedia's Wikipedia page have a Wikipedia page? |
Turtles all the way down. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Boris backtracking on 03:07 - Jun 28 with 1239 views | deanscfc |
| Boris backtracking on 16:09 - Jun 27 by LeonisGod |
There's a big difference between movement of people within the EU/Schengen area and from outside. What happened before we joined is largely irrelevant as the political landscape has changed so much. Non-EU citizens have a right faff working here - expensive, restrictive visas, strict rules on whether and how family can join, etc. There's been quite a shift in policy under this government that is splitting families and making it more difficult, restricting numbers of foreign students (vitally needed as the Uni sector is underfunded), etc.
What Boris doesn't say is how easy or difficult any of this will be. He's just using generalist statements that give him a lot of wiggle room down the line.
Besides the EU have said no negotiations until we officially give notice to leave. If we leave and then go back and arrange a Norway style deal to allow free movement and access to the single market, we've just given away all our influence for no reduction in contribution or reduction in immigration. So a lot of people who voted out will be very, very unhappy. It could turn nasty. |
In summary, we royally f*cked ourselves. I still can't believe that 52% of the UK were so stupid. |  | | |
| Boris backtracking on 03:11 - Jun 28 with 1239 views | deanscfc |
| Boris backtracking on 14:43 - Jun 27 by stevejg73 |
Surely you'd need to know my reasons for voting out to come to the conclusion that my decision was naïve?
Can you tell me why I was naïve? |
Tell me your reasons...
I don't see how anybody who did their research could have thought this was a good idea or even a feasible idea without absolute chaos and pain. | | | |
| Boris backtracking on 03:15 - Jun 28 with 1234 views | Humpty |
| Boris backtracking on 03:07 - Jun 28 by deanscfc |
In summary, we royally f*cked ourselves. I still can't believe that 52% of the UK were so stupid. |
Don't tell them that. They get upset. |  | | |
| Boris backtracking on 03:17 - Jun 28 with 1233 views | deanscfc |
| Boris backtracking on 15:01 - Jun 27 by Groo |
Is it really, I live in Canada, I hear no-one laughing and not one report giving any opinion on whether or not it is a laughing matter.
I didn't vote, I would have voted out had I been in the UK living.
I understand why some wanted to remain, but because I would put my cross on out, does not make me naive, a racist or thick.
All I can think is the remain lot are the biggest sore losers the world has ever seen. |
Sorry but I think it would have made you naive at best. Anyone who properly did their research would have known that this would damage the economy badly, weaken us politically and most likely lead to countries seeking independence (breaking up the UK). They would have also blatantly seen that Gove, Johnson and Farage were lying through their teeth in the campaigns. I had to turn the TV over at times because I couldn't handle hearing the lies being spouted and watching the audience lap up the 'take back control' mantra. | | | |
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| Boris backtracking on 03:28 - Jun 28 with 1228 views | Humpty |
| Boris backtracking on 11:05 - Jun 27 by Highjack |
I would suggest that the huge majority of people in this country didn't and don't know who the Eu are and what they do. That in itself is a good reason to vote out. If it hasn't wormed it's way into the nations minds after forty odd years or more then it's been an abject failure from the start. |
Fair play that's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted about this referendum yet.
If you don't understand something you should vote against it.
No. If you don't understand what the vote is about you should realise you're limitations and not vote. | | | |
| Boris backtracking on 07:50 - Jun 28 with 1203 views | stevejg73 |
| Boris backtracking on 03:11 - Jun 28 by deanscfc |
Tell me your reasons...
I don't see how anybody who did their research could have thought this was a good idea or even a feasible idea without absolute chaos and pain. |
Doing some backtracking yourself? You made the claim that those who voted out were naïve, however as you've just acknowledged you are not in a position to judge whether I was naïve.
I'm not going make assumptions as to why people voted in/out, or make sweeping statements about their motives, nor do I require anyone to justify their choice. | | | |
| Boris backtracking on 08:01 - Jun 28 with 1191 views | waynekerr55 |
| Boris backtracking on 03:28 - Jun 28 by Humpty |
Fair play that's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted about this referendum yet.
If you don't understand something you should vote against it.
No. If you don't understand what the vote is about you should realise you're limitations and not vote. |
Or do some research? |  |
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| Boris backtracking on 09:26 - Jun 28 with 1170 views | Loyal |
His personal agenda is what made him so cynical at first. Now he is almost certain to be PM ( don't laugh at me the way many did re Trump ) he will then negotiate a deal that looks good but keeps much of what we have. The two main things being access to markets and free movement. This was all about Boris, now he has what he has he will become the very thing he campaigned against. |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Boris backtracking on 13:57 - Jun 28 with 1118 views | Private_Partz |
| Boris backtracking on 09:26 - Jun 28 by Loyal |
His personal agenda is what made him so cynical at first. Now he is almost certain to be PM ( don't laugh at me the way many did re Trump ) he will then negotiate a deal that looks good but keeps much of what we have. The two main things being access to markets and free movement. This was all about Boris, now he has what he has he will become the very thing he campaigned against. |
Trump is not President .....yet. Neither is Boris the PM. The latter is currently detested by two thirds of his party. It seems to me a Brexit vote could very well have cooked his goose.
Had it gone the other way he could have highlighted how close the vote was and therefore how weak Cameron was in his negotiations. He could then have ridden in on his white charger on a 'strong in Europe' ticket. Instead I believe he is now perceived as someone who is destroying the Tory Party as a result if his own self interest.
Time will tell of course and, after this week, nothing surprises me any more :-) |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Boris backtracking on 15:01 - Jun 28 with 1086 views | deanscfc |
| Boris backtracking on 07:50 - Jun 28 by stevejg73 |
Doing some backtracking yourself? You made the claim that those who voted out were naïve, however as you've just acknowledged you are not in a position to judge whether I was naïve.
I'm not going make assumptions as to why people voted in/out, or make sweeping statements about their motives, nor do I require anyone to justify their choice. |
Given what was blatantly about to happen (ans is happening), I can say with a lot of confidence that anyone who voted leave was naive.
Maybe...maybe, there are people out there directly affected by some strange EU regulation which they'd rather not be. Even in this case I'm not convinced that the benefits can outweigh the costs or that these people will even get what they want. [Post edited 28 Jun 2016 15:01]
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| Boris backtracking on 16:00 - Jun 28 with 1061 views | stevejg73 |
| Boris backtracking on 15:01 - Jun 28 by deanscfc |
Given what was blatantly about to happen (ans is happening), I can say with a lot of confidence that anyone who voted leave was naive.
Maybe...maybe, there are people out there directly affected by some strange EU regulation which they'd rather not be. Even in this case I'm not convinced that the benefits can outweigh the costs or that these people will even get what they want. [Post edited 28 Jun 2016 15:01]
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So we've established that you can't tell me why I was naïve.
Maybe the long term will show that those who believed that the UK could not prosper outside of the EU were naïve. It seems to be that only those who voted out are being asked to justify their motives, and that all those who voted remain must have considered both sides of the argument.
The most striking thing for me about this referendum is the animosity shown towards people who have exercised their democratic right to vote (not aimed directly towards you). It's also remarkable that all those who voted remain are able to state with certainty the UK's prospects over the next 5, 10, 15 years. | | | |
| Boris backtracking on 17:35 - Jun 30 with 986 views | deanscfc |
| Boris backtracking on 16:00 - Jun 28 by stevejg73 |
So we've established that you can't tell me why I was naïve.
Maybe the long term will show that those who believed that the UK could not prosper outside of the EU were naïve. It seems to be that only those who voted out are being asked to justify their motives, and that all those who voted remain must have considered both sides of the argument.
The most striking thing for me about this referendum is the animosity shown towards people who have exercised their democratic right to vote (not aimed directly towards you). It's also remarkable that all those who voted remain are able to state with certainty the UK's prospects over the next 5, 10, 15 years. |
We've established that I can say with a high degree of certainty that those who voted leave were naïve at best. I honestly don't know how people could have done their research beforehand and not seen that 1) the leave campaigners were not telling the truth 2) their pledges could not be implemented 3) it would leave the country in a complete mess for quite some time.
Nobody can talk about 10-15 years but certainly for 5 years at least this country is going to be worse off. Trade deals take way longer than two years to negotiate and implement. The time and money that will need to be spent looking at which EU laws to keep and which to get rid of doesn't bare thinking about. The negotiation process with the EU is going to be completely embarrassing for this country because we already had a very good deal with the EU and we rejected them. We now need to grovel to keep some of the perks while supposedly not allowing them to 'dictate' (as leave campaigners put it) anything to us in future and while asking that we don't have to accept free movement, a condition which they have clearly stated is non negotiable if we want access to said perks (like the single market).
It must be the biggest f*ck up that this country has ever made. And there ARE things that can be said with certainty...assuming we do push ahead with article 50, it is going to make things very difficult for working age British citizens to move and work in Europe without great difficulty and for older citizens to retire there without limited rights. It is also highly likely (as was obvious beforehand) that Scotland will be break away now leaving 'the UK' to be just Wales, England and NI. Essentially the land that British citizens had to live in freely will have gone from the whole of Europe to those three small countries.
I repeat, biggest f*ck up that this country has ever made. And I haven't even gone into any detail about the economy or our political strength. | | | |
| Boris backtracking on 17:52 - Jun 30 with 971 views | monmouth |
| Boris backtracking on 17:35 - Jun 30 by deanscfc |
We've established that I can say with a high degree of certainty that those who voted leave were naïve at best. I honestly don't know how people could have done their research beforehand and not seen that 1) the leave campaigners were not telling the truth 2) their pledges could not be implemented 3) it would leave the country in a complete mess for quite some time.
Nobody can talk about 10-15 years but certainly for 5 years at least this country is going to be worse off. Trade deals take way longer than two years to negotiate and implement. The time and money that will need to be spent looking at which EU laws to keep and which to get rid of doesn't bare thinking about. The negotiation process with the EU is going to be completely embarrassing for this country because we already had a very good deal with the EU and we rejected them. We now need to grovel to keep some of the perks while supposedly not allowing them to 'dictate' (as leave campaigners put it) anything to us in future and while asking that we don't have to accept free movement, a condition which they have clearly stated is non negotiable if we want access to said perks (like the single market).
It must be the biggest f*ck up that this country has ever made. And there ARE things that can be said with certainty...assuming we do push ahead with article 50, it is going to make things very difficult for working age British citizens to move and work in Europe without great difficulty and for older citizens to retire there without limited rights. It is also highly likely (as was obvious beforehand) that Scotland will be break away now leaving 'the UK' to be just Wales, England and NI. Essentially the land that British citizens had to live in freely will have gone from the whole of Europe to those three small countries.
I repeat, biggest f*ck up that this country has ever made. And I haven't even gone into any detail about the economy or our political strength. |
NI will be a massive clusterf*ck too. | |
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| Boris backtracking on 18:04 - Jun 30 with 951 views | deanscfc |
| Boris backtracking on 17:52 - Jun 30 by monmouth |
NI will be a massive clusterf*ck too. |
Yep. | | | |
| Boris backtracking on 18:07 - Jun 30 with 946 views | Highjack |
| Boris backtracking on 03:07 - Jun 28 by deanscfc |
In summary, we royally f*cked ourselves. I still can't believe that 52% of the UK were so stupid. |
Yes but sadly 48% were even stupider. |  |
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| Boris backtracking on 18:14 - Jun 30 with 928 views | perchrockjack |
Johnson, a treacherous bastard , who s screwed this country big time possibly for several years.
Corbyn should have ripped him to pieces , as he should have done with farage...but he didn't as he is also a treacherous bastard
We desperately need a leader of substance quickly who can unite | |
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| Boris backtracking on 18:32 - Jun 30 with 904 views | longlostjack |
| Boris backtracking on 17:35 - Jun 30 by deanscfc |
We've established that I can say with a high degree of certainty that those who voted leave were naïve at best. I honestly don't know how people could have done their research beforehand and not seen that 1) the leave campaigners were not telling the truth 2) their pledges could not be implemented 3) it would leave the country in a complete mess for quite some time.
Nobody can talk about 10-15 years but certainly for 5 years at least this country is going to be worse off. Trade deals take way longer than two years to negotiate and implement. The time and money that will need to be spent looking at which EU laws to keep and which to get rid of doesn't bare thinking about. The negotiation process with the EU is going to be completely embarrassing for this country because we already had a very good deal with the EU and we rejected them. We now need to grovel to keep some of the perks while supposedly not allowing them to 'dictate' (as leave campaigners put it) anything to us in future and while asking that we don't have to accept free movement, a condition which they have clearly stated is non negotiable if we want access to said perks (like the single market).
It must be the biggest f*ck up that this country has ever made. And there ARE things that can be said with certainty...assuming we do push ahead with article 50, it is going to make things very difficult for working age British citizens to move and work in Europe without great difficulty and for older citizens to retire there without limited rights. It is also highly likely (as was obvious beforehand) that Scotland will be break away now leaving 'the UK' to be just Wales, England and NI. Essentially the land that British citizens had to live in freely will have gone from the whole of Europe to those three small countries.
I repeat, biggest f*ck up that this country has ever made. And I haven't even gone into any detail about the economy or our political strength. |
Great post. If only the Remain campaign had tried to explain the benefits of membership instead of the negative campaigning. The problem being of course that Cameron had said that he would be prepared to leave if he felt the deal wasn't right. To then say that it would be a disaster to leave didn't wash. Thank God the even bigger Eton buffoon isn't standing. On other side, don't get me started on Corbyn and what was the name of the Liberal leader? |  |
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| Boris backtracking on 18:33 - Jun 30 with 901 views | deanscfc |
| Boris backtracking on 18:07 - Jun 30 by Highjack |
Yes but sadly 48% were even stupider. |
Given what I just said above, and what is currently happening, how exactly? | | | |
| Boris backtracking on 18:35 - Jun 30 with 898 views | monmouth |
| Boris backtracking on 18:32 - Jun 30 by longlostjack |
Great post. If only the Remain campaign had tried to explain the benefits of membership instead of the negative campaigning. The problem being of course that Cameron had said that he would be prepared to leave if he felt the deal wasn't right. To then say that it would be a disaster to leave didn't wash. Thank God the even bigger Eton buffoon isn't standing. On other side, don't get me started on Corbyn and what was the name of the Liberal leader? |
Negative 'worked' in Scotland, as allegedly (my arse) did Gordon facking Brown. So the brainless turds just repeated it with added negaturd on top. | |
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| Boris backtracking on 18:37 - Jun 30 with 896 views | Highjack |
| Boris backtracking on 18:33 - Jun 30 by deanscfc |
Given what I just said above, and what is currently happening, how exactly? |
We're far better off out. Common sense has prevailed over fearmongering. The Eu will very soon be an ex parrot pushing up the daisies and it'll be not a day too soon. | |
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| Boris backtracking on 18:37 - Jun 30 with 894 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Boris backtracking on 18:35 - Jun 30 by monmouth |
Negative 'worked' in Scotland, as allegedly (my arse) did Gordon facking Brown. So the brainless turds just repeated it with added negaturd on top. |
Brown did work in the Scottish independence campaign. They quite like him up there. Quite why they thought the same trick would work in the rest of the U.K. is beyond me. |  |
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