| Les Ferdinand — Patreon 09:07 - Feb 9 with 19876 views | Northernr |
So.... Interview with Les, fresh off the plane from Heathrow after a scouting trip yesterday.
Tried to ask as many of the points that have come up on here as possible.
Read it here...
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/59547
Everybody can listen to it on the Patreon whether subscriber or not (we've made this one a free view, it didn't feel right to paywall it given the significance of the interview and the timing, so apologies to our subscribers for that but I hope you understand)
https://www.patreon.com/LoftForWords |  | | |  |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 14:30 - Feb 9 with 2051 views | Northernr |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 14:20 - Feb 9 by R_from_afar |
Thank you, very enlightening and actually made me feel more positive about our DoF than previously, although Sir Les isn't yet delivering what we need.
Clive, the next time you interview anyone from the board or coaching team, can you ask if our new psychologist can fit some sessions with us traumatised fans into his schedule, please?  |
Fck me poor bastard would need therapy himself. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 14:55 - Feb 9 with 1954 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
Good interview Clive. Thank you. Usually I avoid football interviews like the plague but this was worthwhile. |  | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 14:59 - Feb 9 with 1925 views | Northernr |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 14:55 - Feb 9 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
Good interview Clive. Thank you. Usually I avoid football interviews like the plague but this was worthwhile. |
Thanks mate that's appreciated. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 15:23 - Feb 9 with 1859 views | 89_50 |
Same as most, I want to say how great this interview is.
Thought Les was honest (as much as he could be), and came across well. It's obvious that he genuinely cares, and that the owners care - which can't be said of so many clubs throughout this country.
A few things jumped out at me, which I think could prove to be huge moments in the short-medium term of the club.
1. Willock's future. The fact Les said we WILL get money for him is a little more than a hint that he's gone this summer. That he suggested we'd turned down £6m for him within the past two seasons was also revealing as well.
2. The pursuit of an academy feels like it's more of an owner-led endeavour than a Les one. Maybe it was answered in a way that I'm reading too much in to, or maybe Les knows it's a lost cause - especially given his comments about EPPP. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Benham cut it loose quickly when he realised it's a money hole. I wonder how long it would be before we do the same.
3. The Balogun discussion was interesting. Obviously Les wasn't going to say 'he was a Beale signing, we had no input'. Once Balogun has gone, I'd be interested to see if that tune changes a bit - and more importantly, if the committee stays firm and doesn't sign a player because of a manager's relationship with them. |  | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 15:27 - Feb 9 with 1839 views | Northernr |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 15:23 - Feb 9 by 89_50 |
Same as most, I want to say how great this interview is.
Thought Les was honest (as much as he could be), and came across well. It's obvious that he genuinely cares, and that the owners care - which can't be said of so many clubs throughout this country.
A few things jumped out at me, which I think could prove to be huge moments in the short-medium term of the club.
1. Willock's future. The fact Les said we WILL get money for him is a little more than a hint that he's gone this summer. That he suggested we'd turned down £6m for him within the past two seasons was also revealing as well.
2. The pursuit of an academy feels like it's more of an owner-led endeavour than a Les one. Maybe it was answered in a way that I'm reading too much in to, or maybe Les knows it's a lost cause - especially given his comments about EPPP. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Benham cut it loose quickly when he realised it's a money hole. I wonder how long it would be before we do the same.
3. The Balogun discussion was interesting. Obviously Les wasn't going to say 'he was a Beale signing, we had no input'. Once Balogun has gone, I'd be interested to see if that tune changes a bit - and more importantly, if the committee stays firm and doesn't sign a player because of a manager's relationship with them. |
On point 1, that £6m Willock thing was definitely a hypothetical example, not something that happened and they turned down. I thought that at the time, but when I transcribed it I saw how that read and went back and clarified and, yes, hypothetical. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 15:54 - Feb 9 with 1729 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 15:27 - Feb 9 by Northernr |
On point 1, that £6m Willock thing was definitely a hypothetical example, not something that happened and they turned down. I thought that at the time, but when I transcribed it I saw how that read and went back and clarified and, yes, hypothetical. |
I thought that was a hint that £6m in the past was unacceptable, but this summer don't expect more than that. |  |
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| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 15:55 - Feb 9 with 1724 views | Northernr |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 15:54 - Feb 9 by Antti_Heinola |
I thought that was a hint that £6m in the past was unacceptable, but this summer don't expect more than that. |
Yes, but in general, not for Willock specifically. Hypothetically a player who was worth £15m two years ago (which Willock wasn't) is probably worth £6m now. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 15:59 - Feb 9 with 1708 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 14:12 - Feb 9 by Northernr |
Agree with much of this mate, and to my point in the interview... you've had eight years, why is there nobody good enough to step in as a third or fourth choice? It's a damning indictment on the academy staff and Les for me. Not one player in our youth and reserves we think is capable of covering Lyndon Dykes for ten games of midtable Championship football. |
Agree. I guess he'd say it would have been one of these players that got poached during that time, but that's not a strong answer.
I'd probably say for your 'number nine' you need a first choice (A), a second choice who is either pushing for that place or playing alongside the number nine (B), and THEN a young hungry one after experience (C). At the moment, Lyndon is A, Sinclair is C, but there is no B. If you lose A, then B plays with pressure from C. I'd argue it's more about being unprepared for losing A in this scenario, but equally, yes, if you have no B that's because you should have enough faith in your C to take over, at least for a short period, in the same way that Kakay is not your A, but if your A is injured, he's fine to cover for a few games. | |
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| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:01 - Feb 9 with 1703 views | Northernr |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 15:59 - Feb 9 by Antti_Heinola |
Agree. I guess he'd say it would have been one of these players that got poached during that time, but that's not a strong answer.
I'd probably say for your 'number nine' you need a first choice (A), a second choice who is either pushing for that place or playing alongside the number nine (B), and THEN a young hungry one after experience (C). At the moment, Lyndon is A, Sinclair is C, but there is no B. If you lose A, then B plays with pressure from C. I'd argue it's more about being unprepared for losing A in this scenario, but equally, yes, if you have no B that's because you should have enough faith in your C to take over, at least for a short period, in the same way that Kakay is not your A, but if your A is injured, he's fine to cover for a few games. |
Yes and, like you say, Marshall I can see, Westwood is nonsense. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:02 - Feb 9 with 1694 views | Harbour |
Great interview thanks Clive for doing it and asking all the hard questions in a professional and respectful way. Credit Les for doing the interview when the club not in a good place and us as fans not happy. Thought he answered the questions and did not duck any. Interesting they have brought in a psychiatrist to work on the players mentality let’s hope that has some effect…think as a fan would not mind access at 4.50 on a Saturday afternoon. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:04 - Feb 9 with 1678 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Good stuff.
Well done for asking tough questions, and well done to him for not dodging them. You’ve been uncharacteristically critical of him and the set up recently Clive.
Did you feel reassured or have the same doubts?
He didn’t throw anyone under the bus either, which he could have done. Even gave mitigation to Beale which I thought was more than generous.
I can’t see how anyone reasonable could listen to that and conclude that Les and the processes we strive for needs to be knocked down and started again. |  | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:29 - Feb 9 with 1573 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:04 - Feb 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Good stuff.
Well done for asking tough questions, and well done to him for not dodging them. You’ve been uncharacteristically critical of him and the set up recently Clive.
Did you feel reassured or have the same doubts?
He didn’t throw anyone under the bus either, which he could have done. Even gave mitigation to Beale which I thought was more than generous.
I can’t see how anyone reasonable could listen to that and conclude that Les and the processes we strive for needs to be knocked down and started again. |
So it would be 'unreasonable' to challenge him? The fact remains that the plan and processes aren't working - there was a lot of shrugging going on in the interview and that he doesn't really know how to achieve the results he wants. It's a good bunch of lads, don't know why we have only won 1 in 15, let's get a psychologist in, etc. If the plan and processes are meant to achieve developing and selling players to the Premier League for big bucks, then they clearly aren't working. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:31 - Feb 9 with 1569 views | PinnerPaul |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 11:18 - Feb 9 by robith |
Fair play Clive - felt your questions were direct, tough but fair.
His answers were either good or flakey. Almost like nothing is ever a clear cut issue |
I think the main non clear cut issue is how the hell do you know how good a player is when you bring them in?
No matter if they are 14 or 34 - that's the crux isn't it?
No DOF in the world can guarantee every player their club signs is going to be wonderful. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:34 - Feb 9 with 1545 views | PinnerPaul |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 10:29 - Feb 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
Overall, it's a very good interview, and Clive hit every question imaginable. Bar the Cat 1 question, nothing was dodged.
But Ferdinand mentions that one of our players who was poached from us for a pittance is now being sold for a lot more money. We're losing out on that as long as we're Cat 2. That's the silver bullet, surely. That's our way out. And another opportunity to explain why has now come and gone.
I may be over-focussing on this, I realise, but it seems to me that the rest is minutiae compared to the Cat 1 status. |
See your point Brian but Brentford have no academy and being Cat 1 would only put us on a par with Fulham. Palace, West Ham and the big 3 London clubs.
Why would someone choose us over a PL academy, even if we're Cat 1?
Is it true that we would get more money if we were Cat 1 and a player gets 'poached' - is that the point?
Thanks | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:36 - Feb 9 with 1538 views | Northernr |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:34 - Feb 9 by PinnerPaul |
See your point Brian but Brentford have no academy and being Cat 1 would only put us on a par with Fulham. Palace, West Ham and the big 3 London clubs.
Why would someone choose us over a PL academy, even if we're Cat 1?
Is it true that we would get more money if we were Cat 1 and a player gets 'poached' - is that the point?
Thanks |
Yes. ATM anybody vaguely good you do persuade to come us against that competition, can just be picked off for buttons at any point of the Cat 1's choosing. If you're Cat 1 as well, there are stricter rules about taking players from your academy and bigger fees received. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:40 - Feb 9 with 1527 views | PinnerPaul |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 12:24 - Feb 9 by traininvain |
Thanks to Clive and fair play to Ferdinand for doing the interview. Some answers more convincing than others but I respect that it would be inappropriate to air too much dirty laundry (e.g. the Warburton situation) in public.
It certainly shows the difficulties of running a football club. Balancing the short term needs against the long term with people pulling in different directions can’t be easy and I think the DOF role at a club like ours is a bit of a poisoned chalice in that respect.
One point that’s often missed re signing players and DOF / manager input is that it’s generally going to be a collective decision making process between a number of people (recruitment, manager, DOF etc).
I doubt any managers worth their salt would accept a job where they have zero input. It’s a bit more nuanced than pointing the finger and saying it’s the sole responsibility of the DOF or recruitment.
But I agree that the system should be more rigid than allowing a manager to come along like Beale did and completely destroy our season by walking away five months later and leaving half the team unsettled because he was the reason they joined. A harsh lesson for Ferdinand and who knows where this team would be if Beale had stayed for the season. |
But as he pointed out, that's no excuse for the non Beale players form to fall off a cliff.
As in most of life, its never as easy as one reason.
I liked his reasoning & knowledge of what a player does when the side isn't doing well - they try to improve themselves, whilst at the same time that being detrimental to the team.
Chair the obvious example, Willock another - "trying too hard" I suppose sums it up. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:45 - Feb 9 with 1497 views | PinnerPaul |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 14:06 - Feb 9 by Northernr |
Under EPPP (an evil plan, designed entirely with the big clubs in mind, and forced upon the EFL under pain of having all their Premier league solidarity payments withdrawn) academies are categorised.
If you have a category one academy, essentially, you're allowed to basically walk into (literally) any lower category academy, watch their U16 players, talk to their U16 players, and remove them for a minimal fee - as you can see here we've averaged just £57k in compensation for the ones we've lost. Rayan Kolli, all very excited about now, was able to go to West Ham and play trial games there last season, and they could have had him for buttons if they'd decided to do so, because they're cat one and we're cat two.
There's a very strong argument, particularly when you're surrounded by cat one academies as we are, that running a cat two academy for U16s is a pointless exercise, because your chances of bringing somebody who's good enough through from those age groups without them being pinched under EPPP is very slim. Brentford initially went down the route of developing their own kids, but they lost two amazing prospects, one to Arsenal and one to Man City, and Benham literally pulled the plug on the whole thing almost overnight, reverted to a B Team system and said EPPP made the whole thing a joke unless you're Cat 1 - wasn't going to waste his time and money helping Man City out. And as we know he's the smartest bloke in the room.
To get a category one academy, however, you have to meet all sorts of criteria, lots of which is expensive. Originally our problem was the lack of indorr training facilities - a 'dome' basically - but we've solved that bit now because there is a dome at Heston which we share with the school. However you now also need things like staffed accomodation blocks for players, I believe, which is one of the places we fall down.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Thanks.
So if another Cat 1 want to take from a Cat 1 is there a set scale of fees payable, is it negotiable or is there some sort of tribunal or is it just not allowed? | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:52 - Feb 9 with 1482 views | Northernr |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:45 - Feb 9 by PinnerPaul |
Thanks.
So if another Cat 1 want to take from a Cat 1 is there a set scale of fees payable, is it negotiable or is there some sort of tribunal or is it just not allowed? |
I should go and check but I'm tired, Simon Dorset is good on this as always. I think it's much more like any other transfer and you negotiate the transfer fee, whereas for a cat 1 to take from a cat 2 it's a set formula - how old is he + how long you had him = £3.75, ability irrelevent.
And, like I say, there are other rules regarding approaching players, scouting players, taking players on trial that are heavily skewed to a cat one. Little short of them being allowed to just walk onto your training ground, ask Kolli if he fancies a trial at West Ham, and he says yes. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:52 - Feb 9 with 1479 views | PinnerPaul |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:36 - Feb 9 by Northernr |
Yes. ATM anybody vaguely good you do persuade to come us against that competition, can just be picked off for buttons at any point of the Cat 1's choosing. If you're Cat 1 as well, there are stricter rules about taking players from your academy and bigger fees received. |
Thanks, that's answered my question I've just asked.
Very professional interview, easy for you if you're interviewing Blackburn's DOF, but given the emotional investment, can't have been easy!
Especially distancing yourself form the "Sign a striker" and "Willock is worth £30M" comments, which tbf to everyone here appear on social media (I'm taking that from you as I don't do social media)
Thanks again | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:54 - Feb 9 with 1472 views | PinnerPaul |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:52 - Feb 9 by Northernr |
I should go and check but I'm tired, Simon Dorset is good on this as always. I think it's much more like any other transfer and you negotiate the transfer fee, whereas for a cat 1 to take from a cat 2 it's a set formula - how old is he + how long you had him = £3.75, ability irrelevent.
And, like I say, there are other rules regarding approaching players, scouting players, taking players on trial that are heavily skewed to a cat one. Little short of them being allowed to just walk onto your training ground, ask Kolli if he fancies a trial at West Ham, and he says yes. |
Cheers | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:57 - Feb 9 with 1446 views | dmm |
I guess one question would be: Would we make more money having a cat 1 academy that helped us recruit, retain and sell players than it would cost to build and finance a cat 1 academy? |  | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:57 - Feb 9 with 1446 views | Northernr |
QPR hive mind is slowly piecing the 13 names together though...
Alfie Gilchrist, Chelsea
Bradley Ibrahim, Arsenal
Luca Gunter, Spurs | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 17:00 - Feb 9 with 1422 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 16:29 - Feb 9 by Wegerles_Stairs |
So it would be 'unreasonable' to challenge him? The fact remains that the plan and processes aren't working - there was a lot of shrugging going on in the interview and that he doesn't really know how to achieve the results he wants. It's a good bunch of lads, don't know why we have only won 1 in 15, let's get a psychologist in, etc. If the plan and processes are meant to achieve developing and selling players to the Premier League for big bucks, then they clearly aren't working. |
I honestly don’t know what you are on about or what you have been reading. | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 17:08 - Feb 9 with 1392 views | Ad99 |
Excellent stuff, many thanks. Very happy to pay the Patreon for material like this.
LF has a thankless task, and far from an easy one. There must be a myriad of priorities and when the fist XI football is going well then I imagine the job gets slightly easier (or covers up faults).
No pressure or anything but when's the next one? ;-) | | | |
| Les Ferdinand — Patreon on 17:09 - Feb 9 with 1387 views | charmr |
Clive out😃 | | | |
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