| Brexit .... My thoughts... 11:07 - Jun 16 with 149518 views | JacksDad |
The one thing I am certain of re this vote is that no-one knows for sure what the repercussions economically will be if we pull out. If you listen to the experts it will be better if we stay in, however its all unconvincing. My issue is that after 10 years of Austerity, the services in this country have been cut to the bone, that is services that are needed by us all - not just Immigrants/benefit spongers. We are not in a position to afford the enormous gamble if it all goes t1ts up. I am taking my lead from Ray Winston and gambling responsibly and staying in. If we ever get to situation when everything is adequately funded and horrible 0 hours contracts were abolished ... then maybe it might be worth the risk to pull out. But to do it now is a massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose. |  | | |  |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:28 - Jul 5 with 2002 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:16 - Jul 5 by Mytch_QPR |
Fair enough. I think the car market is on its @rse, so you may be able to get a cheap runaround to replace the horse.
I would be less worried about it if there was someone around to show some leadership. I did say a few posts back that I don't think Brexit will actually happen (and I stand by this), but the current uncertainty is not helping anyone or any industry. |
You may be right. It'd be interesting to know what the estimated bill for all those tens of thousands of auxiliary Brexit negotiators came to. You'd imagine a fair bit of blood drained from quite a few cheeks.
I think it's dawning on all but the very slowest coaches that this was really all just an elaborate re-arrangement of the Tory Party hierarchy, with an enhanced influence for UKIP despite having all of one MP, and the (eye watering) bill footed by the rest of us, whether we voted In, Out or Have A Bendy Banana. [Post edited 5 Jul 2016 14:30]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:09 - Jul 5 with 1926 views | BucksRanger |
Sod bendy bananas, when are Bombay Ducks going to be available in the UK again? [Post edited 5 Jul 2016 16:10]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:01 - Jul 5 with 1878 views | TheBlob |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 16:09 - Jul 5 by BucksRanger |
Sod bendy bananas, when are Bombay Ducks going to be available in the UK again? [Post edited 5 Jul 2016 16:10]
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Plenty of sour grapes around though. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:27 - Jul 5 with 1842 views | traininvain |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:01 - Jul 5 by TheBlob |
Plenty of sour grapes around though. |
Hardly surprising given the pound is continuing to take a hammering and various commercial property funds have stopped investors from withdrawing their cash.
At this rate I'll be lucky to get a euro for each pound exchanged for my holiday in a couple of weeks time... |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:30 - Jul 5 with 1807 views | QPR_John |
I am no economics expert and the pound has fallen through the floor so the logical conclusion is that it is impossible to leave the EU. Nobody seems to have made that point. We will remain and ask for forgiveness and when they tell us to jump we will say how high. The EU will never drop the Euro so eventually whatever the cost we will have to join. The EU will never drop the dream of a United States of Europe so eventually that will be our fate. Of course national security will be handed over to the European Army controlled by who knows who. Westminster will be by passed, maybe if lucky it will be given state legisture status but as a small outpost of the glorious republic I have my doubts. It will be the promised land and occasionally just for show we might vote for a senator for a token government who will have less power then the glorious commission in Brussels. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:57 - Jul 5 with 1789 views | TheBlob |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:30 - Jul 5 by QPR_John |
I am no economics expert and the pound has fallen through the floor so the logical conclusion is that it is impossible to leave the EU. Nobody seems to have made that point. We will remain and ask for forgiveness and when they tell us to jump we will say how high. The EU will never drop the Euro so eventually whatever the cost we will have to join. The EU will never drop the dream of a United States of Europe so eventually that will be our fate. Of course national security will be handed over to the European Army controlled by who knows who. Westminster will be by passed, maybe if lucky it will be given state legisture status but as a small outpost of the glorious republic I have my doubts. It will be the promised land and occasionally just for show we might vote for a senator for a token government who will have less power then the glorious commission in Brussels. |
There won't be enough of the EU left to make a hill of sand let alone a superstate. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 19:13 - Jul 5 with 1768 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:30 - Jul 5 by QPR_John |
I am no economics expert and the pound has fallen through the floor so the logical conclusion is that it is impossible to leave the EU. Nobody seems to have made that point. We will remain and ask for forgiveness and when they tell us to jump we will say how high. The EU will never drop the Euro so eventually whatever the cost we will have to join. The EU will never drop the dream of a United States of Europe so eventually that will be our fate. Of course national security will be handed over to the European Army controlled by who knows who. Westminster will be by passed, maybe if lucky it will be given state legisture status but as a small outpost of the glorious republic I have my doubts. It will be the promised land and occasionally just for show we might vote for a senator for a token government who will have less power then the glorious commission in Brussels. |
Thanks for this. Just want to be clear on something. A little further up the thread, I mentioned we get more money out of the EU for research than we put in and that British jobs were already at risk because of the lack of any plan to replace that funding. I think I had to give you about four detailed replies before you (I assume) accepted I wasn't actually lying about it, up to and including official reports from the Royal Society using figures from the Office of National Statistics.
As what you're talking about is very dramatic, I'm obviously very concerned, and it would be brilliant if you could provide me with some kind of similar evidence for what you're saying.I'm assuming there are robust reports from credible sources of:
a) The EU having a specific real world plan to force the UK to adopt the Euro.
b) The EU having a specific real world plan to introduce a "United States of Europe."
c) The EU having a specific real world plan to introduce a European Army that will then take over control of British security from our own armed forces.
I don't want to a stickler about it. It would just be strange, wouldn't it, to refuse to accept someone's word for something for which there's actual documented evidence - but then make a series of claims for which there isn't any beyond, say, a single quote from Jean-Claude Juncker. Obviously I know someone like you would demand a much higher standard of information than just some slightly hysterical speculation based on something so flimsy.
Looking forward to getting my teeth into it all. Thanks. | | | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 19:43 - Jul 5 with 1731 views | QPR_John |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 19:13 - Jul 5 by DannytheR |
Thanks for this. Just want to be clear on something. A little further up the thread, I mentioned we get more money out of the EU for research than we put in and that British jobs were already at risk because of the lack of any plan to replace that funding. I think I had to give you about four detailed replies before you (I assume) accepted I wasn't actually lying about it, up to and including official reports from the Royal Society using figures from the Office of National Statistics.
As what you're talking about is very dramatic, I'm obviously very concerned, and it would be brilliant if you could provide me with some kind of similar evidence for what you're saying.I'm assuming there are robust reports from credible sources of:
a) The EU having a specific real world plan to force the UK to adopt the Euro.
b) The EU having a specific real world plan to introduce a "United States of Europe."
c) The EU having a specific real world plan to introduce a European Army that will then take over control of British security from our own armed forces.
I don't want to a stickler about it. It would just be strange, wouldn't it, to refuse to accept someone's word for something for which there's actual documented evidence - but then make a series of claims for which there isn't any beyond, say, a single quote from Jean-Claude Juncker. Obviously I know someone like you would demand a much higher standard of information than just some slightly hysterical speculation based on something so flimsy.
Looking forward to getting my teeth into it all. Thanks. |
You will always have the better of me as I am unwilling to spend hours trawling the Internet for articles. All I know is that the Euro exists and anybody can see the European experiment cannot succeed if there is more than one currency. Political unification has and always will be the dream of the devotees in Brussels. The European Army has been talked about for quite a while now.
These are realities and while we are always told we have to be in it to reform it what reform has there been in the last 40 years. The constitution was rejected by France and Holland so the name was changed to a treaty. Even that was rejected by the Irish Republic the first time they were asked so they were asked again when the "correct result" was reached.
I just ask the question what would make you want to leave as in the campaign and since those in favour of remaining have never suggests there is any risk.
We know and it has been reported that the EU want to punish us for leaving and I wonder if that is the talk of a responsible organisation.
Of course this referendum has changed and the only hope is it will force change, Angela Merkel has already suggested getting rid of Juncker. Maybe if we had heard talk like that before the result might have been different.
Still we are where we are and I just cannot get my head around the idea that the EU is perfect. What is especially difficult to take is that the EU supporters always say it is not perfect but we can fix it if we remain but when the dust settles nothing changes.
As for the EU research budget this is another example of you making your own assumptions. I never said you were lying all I was saying was that as a net contributer t the EU as a whole it seems strange to pick and choose so it can be said we are net gainers in some departments. Of course if the figures are broken down to show we are net gainers in research funding how much are we net contributors in others and could we not cut down there and ask what is saved is put towards research. Who makes the rules? | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:38 - Jul 5 with 1681 views | derbyhoop |
Jon - please don't rerun the arguments. The people voted to Leave and no serious politician is going to quibble with the outcome.
The reality for me is that the £ has fallen 10% against the Euro and is at a 31 year low against the $.
The construction industry contracted in Q2 - before the result was even declared.
3 major investors have suspended dealings in their Property funds
Growth in the Service sector is falling rapidly.
In fact, it's all turning out to be very similar to what all the economic experts predicted.
And we haven't even started negotiating for what the future arrangements with 450m will be.
If it wasn't for the reassuring messages coming from the BOE, things might look bleak. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:47 - Jul 5 with 1668 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:01 - Jul 5 by DannytheR |
And meanwhile the pound hits a 31 year low.
A second firm suspends all investment in UK property.
And the Bank of England tells everyone to be "prudent in their borrowing."
How does "We're all fked, nice one lads" look in Helvetica? |
Pound/ Euro 1/8/2 013 Close 1.14
Pound Euro close today 1.18
FTSE 250 Close 11/2/2016 15178
FTSE 250 Close today 15734
FTSE 100 up around 8 or 9%since the vote .
Its 3 property funds closed for cash out actually but they are not bust . Some people want to cash out and its not easy to sell warehouses and factorys quickly . Invest in property and dont expect liquidity . Its why I never have .
The Bank of England has reduced the reserve requirement to encourage lending not deter it . Shouldnt any bank be prudent , at anytime ?
Carry on talking your country down ..................... |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:04 - Jul 5 with 2503 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:38 - Jul 5 by derbyhoop |
Jon - please don't rerun the arguments. The people voted to Leave and no serious politician is going to quibble with the outcome.
The reality for me is that the £ has fallen 10% against the Euro and is at a 31 year low against the $.
The construction industry contracted in Q2 - before the result was even declared.
3 major investors have suspended dealings in their Property funds
Growth in the Service sector is falling rapidly.
In fact, it's all turning out to be very similar to what all the economic experts predicted.
And we haven't even started negotiating for what the future arrangements with 450m will be.
If it wasn't for the reassuring messages coming from the BOE, things might look bleak. |
No one ever said that their wouldnt be a short term reaction , some things will return quick some not so quick . No one disputed that .
Its been 10 days ....not weeks or months let alone years
This was a decision we were told , was for a lifetime and we should think of our kids .
To jump in after 10 days and claim vindication seems a bit desperate TBH .
Carney only ever said that the short term reaction could be volatile , but to his credit put plans in place , however that is his job .
What isnt his job is to make political statements which he did pre vote . That was what drew my criticism . | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:08 - Jul 5 with 2501 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:47 - Jul 5 by essextaxiboy |
Pound/ Euro 1/8/2 013 Close 1.14
Pound Euro close today 1.18
FTSE 250 Close 11/2/2016 15178
FTSE 250 Close today 15734
FTSE 100 up around 8 or 9%since the vote .
Its 3 property funds closed for cash out actually but they are not bust . Some people want to cash out and its not easy to sell warehouses and factorys quickly . Invest in property and dont expect liquidity . Its why I never have .
The Bank of England has reduced the reserve requirement to encourage lending not deter it . Shouldnt any bank be prudent , at anytime ?
Carry on talking your country down ..................... |
No-one's talking their country down. They're just facts. They're not patriotic or unpatriotic.
You know as well as I do that what stopped sterling collapsing even further (finally) was Carney.
The Carney who was being accused of scaremongering not even a fortnight ago.
The same Carney who appears to be the only person in the country now taking any responsibility or offering ordinary people any guidance, while the people who were trashing him have suddenly all vanished back to their Telegraph columns or, in Farage's case, his new show on LBC.
You also know as well as I do why he warned ordinary people to get their debts in shape pronto. Because this is going to get very, very bumpy.
If the future of the country now depends on us all wilfully ignoring what's really going on, what kind of country is it anymore? [Post edited 5 Jul 2016 21:10]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:44 - Jul 5 with 2453 views | QPR_John |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:38 - Jul 5 by derbyhoop |
Jon - please don't rerun the arguments. The people voted to Leave and no serious politician is going to quibble with the outcome.
The reality for me is that the £ has fallen 10% against the Euro and is at a 31 year low against the $.
The construction industry contracted in Q2 - before the result was even declared.
3 major investors have suspended dealings in their Property funds
Growth in the Service sector is falling rapidly.
In fact, it's all turning out to be very similar to what all the economic experts predicted.
And we haven't even started negotiating for what the future arrangements with 450m will be.
If it wasn't for the reassuring messages coming from the BOE, things might look bleak. |
This really is a defining moment for the EU. We become a financial basket case and no other country will dare to leave allowing the EU to grow without feeling the need for any sort of reform. Otherwise we weather the financial storm and prove there is life outside and the EU slowly changes and maybe reverts to what it was when we joined. [Post edited 5 Jul 2016 21:45]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:25 - Jul 6 with 2370 views | traininvain |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:47 - Jul 5 by essextaxiboy |
Pound/ Euro 1/8/2 013 Close 1.14
Pound Euro close today 1.18
FTSE 250 Close 11/2/2016 15178
FTSE 250 Close today 15734
FTSE 100 up around 8 or 9%since the vote .
Its 3 property funds closed for cash out actually but they are not bust . Some people want to cash out and its not easy to sell warehouses and factorys quickly . Invest in property and dont expect liquidity . Its why I never have .
The Bank of England has reduced the reserve requirement to encourage lending not deter it . Shouldnt any bank be prudent , at anytime ?
Carry on talking your country down ..................... |
I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure the FTSE100 includes international companies so it's not a particularly good benchmark for our economic situation. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:01 - Jul 6 with 2344 views | PinnerPaul |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:25 - Jul 6 by traininvain |
I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure the FTSE100 includes international companies so it's not a particularly good benchmark for our economic situation. |
Correct , the FTSE 250 is a better guide as contains a higher proportion of UK companies | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:03 - Jul 6 with 2342 views | Mytch_QPR |
Look at the original post which kicked off this thread - 'massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose' - I do take the point of Essex and a few others who would say look at the big picture, this is a marathon and not a sprint.
However, we live in a Capitalist world which relies on money being spent. The jitters from the commercial property funding crisis will affect construction - as pointed out by Derbyhoop - and many people will put off any major purchase and sit on their hands whilst this plays out. Holidays for many will be put on hold due to the exchange rate. Yes, it has only been 10 days, but it won't take long for companies to react and start looking at redundancies. The property market and car market are on their bottoms at present, the travel industry is about to follow. If major redundancies start then confidence drains away as everyone becomes fearful. So, in that respect, Danny is correct - I believe - in saying that we could have a very rocky ride ahead.
As has been mentioned many times before (but I will do so again to get it off my chest), none of this has been helped by the main architects of the Leave campaign disappearing - clearly all too aware that they can't deliver on what they promised.
I hope all of you in the Leave camp have plenty of dosh stashed away? |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:43 - Jul 6 with 2284 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:01 - Jul 6 by PinnerPaul |
Correct , the FTSE 250 is a better guide as contains a higher proportion of UK companies |
You are right . The 250 more accurately reflects the UK alone. I include the 100 because it was the chief execs of these companys that said we should stay in . I assume they will still take their bonuses based on the share price .
Sorry replied to the wrong post .... | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:49 - Jul 6 with 2276 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:03 - Jul 6 by Mytch_QPR |
Look at the original post which kicked off this thread - 'massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose' - I do take the point of Essex and a few others who would say look at the big picture, this is a marathon and not a sprint.
However, we live in a Capitalist world which relies on money being spent. The jitters from the commercial property funding crisis will affect construction - as pointed out by Derbyhoop - and many people will put off any major purchase and sit on their hands whilst this plays out. Holidays for many will be put on hold due to the exchange rate. Yes, it has only been 10 days, but it won't take long for companies to react and start looking at redundancies. The property market and car market are on their bottoms at present, the travel industry is about to follow. If major redundancies start then confidence drains away as everyone becomes fearful. So, in that respect, Danny is correct - I believe - in saying that we could have a very rocky ride ahead.
As has been mentioned many times before (but I will do so again to get it off my chest), none of this has been helped by the main architects of the Leave campaign disappearing - clearly all too aware that they can't deliver on what they promised.
I hope all of you in the Leave camp have plenty of dosh stashed away? |
They were not the big players , they were the show ponies appealing to people who love a maverick and an oddbod . Farage appealed to a certain group ( not always the nicest ) and Boris another . Their job is done .Let the serious ones get on with it .
I almost used an Adel analogy there ..... | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:58 - Jul 6 with 2257 views | TheBlob |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:08 - Jul 5 by DannytheR |
No-one's talking their country down. They're just facts. They're not patriotic or unpatriotic.
You know as well as I do that what stopped sterling collapsing even further (finally) was Carney.
The Carney who was being accused of scaremongering not even a fortnight ago.
The same Carney who appears to be the only person in the country now taking any responsibility or offering ordinary people any guidance, while the people who were trashing him have suddenly all vanished back to their Telegraph columns or, in Farage's case, his new show on LBC.
You also know as well as I do why he warned ordinary people to get their debts in shape pronto. Because this is going to get very, very bumpy.
If the future of the country now depends on us all wilfully ignoring what's really going on, what kind of country is it anymore? [Post edited 5 Jul 2016 21:10]
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Mark Carney??
The same Goldman Sachs gang member that gets Fed Reserve paper money that's printed out of thin air?There you go boys,more gambling chips for the derivatives,fill your boots it's money for nothing.It'll be a major surprise if he isn't lynched by august.
Dear god,Mark Carney. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:04 - Jul 6 with 2243 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:43 - Jul 6 by essextaxiboy |
You are right . The 250 more accurately reflects the UK alone. I include the 100 because it was the chief execs of these companys that said we should stay in . I assume they will still take their bonuses based on the share price .
Sorry replied to the wrong post .... |
"You are right . The 250 more accurately reflects the UK alone. I include the 100 because it was the chief execs of these companys that said we should stay in."
I hope you've got help moving all these goalposts. You're going to do your back in.
Give it up, man. Honestly. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:06 - Jul 6 with 2240 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:49 - Jul 6 by essextaxiboy |
They were not the big players , they were the show ponies appealing to people who love a maverick and an oddbod . Farage appealed to a certain group ( not always the nicest ) and Boris another . Their job is done .Let the serious ones get on with it .
I almost used an Adel analogy there ..... |
Have you been helping Andrea Leadsom with her CV? Tut tut. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:33 - Jul 6 with 2186 views | Brightonhoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:47 - Jul 5 by essextaxiboy |
Pound/ Euro 1/8/2 013 Close 1.14
Pound Euro close today 1.18
FTSE 250 Close 11/2/2016 15178
FTSE 250 Close today 15734
FTSE 100 up around 8 or 9%since the vote .
Its 3 property funds closed for cash out actually but they are not bust . Some people want to cash out and its not easy to sell warehouses and factorys quickly . Invest in property and dont expect liquidity . Its why I never have .
The Bank of England has reduced the reserve requirement to encourage lending not deter it . Shouldnt any bank be prudent , at anytime ?
Carry on talking your country down ..................... |
Carry on talking the country down, Essex? Pound hit 1.16 against the Euro this morning, but dont let facts get in the way of a dumb ideology.
As wel as the propertty cash outs, Londons biggest lenders to foreign investors started advising caution on London last week and have since declined all Loan requests on a far too high risk basis.
It's a crash, just no one dare mention it. It's an absolute car crash and hasn't even started yet. That's not talking anything down but fact, when Article 50 is finally triggered. then the wheels really come off.
See that stable economy with potential for growth we had back in May? Gone for a decade. Maybe two,. But at least you gotch yer kuntry back. lol
Boris and Fromage looked over the trenches onto the battlefield, turned and ran. Fact. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:48 - Jul 6 with 2181 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:33 - Jul 6 by Brightonhoop |
Carry on talking the country down, Essex? Pound hit 1.16 against the Euro this morning, but dont let facts get in the way of a dumb ideology.
As wel as the propertty cash outs, Londons biggest lenders to foreign investors started advising caution on London last week and have since declined all Loan requests on a far too high risk basis.
It's a crash, just no one dare mention it. It's an absolute car crash and hasn't even started yet. That's not talking anything down but fact, when Article 50 is finally triggered. then the wheels really come off.
See that stable economy with potential for growth we had back in May? Gone for a decade. Maybe two,. But at least you gotch yer kuntry back. lol
Boris and Fromage looked over the trenches onto the battlefield, turned and ran. Fact. |
That's why I don't think they will trigger A50. By the time they get round to doing that the damage will be very apparent and they will probably have to have a rethink to prevent a meltdown.
It sounds unlikely but it's just possible that they do know what they are doing (the politicians, that is) but they're doing a very passable impression of a bunch of headless chickens who don't know their collective arses / elbows. Clever, eh? | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:48 - Jul 6 with 2180 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:04 - Jul 6 by DannytheR |
"You are right . The 250 more accurately reflects the UK alone. I include the 100 because it was the chief execs of these companys that said we should stay in."
I hope you've got help moving all these goalposts. You're going to do your back in.
Give it up, man. Honestly. |
I tried to give it up , but reading you tying yourself in knots made it impossible not to tug on a few loose ends ...
I tried hard , I did let all that research drivel go ...
Try giving it up ..you lost the vote by 1.3 million . Roll with it ..
I will try again ..cheerio. | | | |
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