| Brexit .... My thoughts... 11:07 - Jun 16 with 149685 views | JacksDad |
The one thing I am certain of re this vote is that no-one knows for sure what the repercussions economically will be if we pull out. If you listen to the experts it will be better if we stay in, however its all unconvincing. My issue is that after 10 years of Austerity, the services in this country have been cut to the bone, that is services that are needed by us all - not just Immigrants/benefit spongers. We are not in a position to afford the enormous gamble if it all goes t1ts up. I am taking my lead from Ray Winston and gambling responsibly and staying in. If we ever get to situation when everything is adequately funded and horrible 0 hours contracts were abolished ... then maybe it might be worth the risk to pull out. But to do it now is a massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose. |  | | |  |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:47 - Jul 3 with 1903 views | Brightonhoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:36 - Jul 3 by QPR_John |
I understand we are a net contributer to the EU but you say we are a net beneficiary of the ERC fund so do we decide how our contribution is distributed. |
No. Corn Wall had to match fund pound for pound. Pretty good really if you're buying a £20,000 car. But. And it's a but. They failed to meet the spending requirements so have to repay the EU grants. Sad but true. Not sure how you get that wrong but they did. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:10 - Jul 3 with 1889 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:36 - Jul 3 by QPR_John |
I understand we are a net contributer to the EU but you say we are a net beneficiary of the ERC fund so do we decide how our contribution is distributed. |
No, the ERC decide how they distribute the money. I’d need to check with my sister in law what the exact figure was, but I think over the last few years we’ve had about 3 billion more out of the EU research budget than we put into it.
The science minister Jo Johnson (yes, brother of Boris) said before the referendum that the UK government would be unlikely to be able to make up the difference if we left. There’s been a spending freeze here on scientific research since 2010. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 06:02 - Jul 4 with 1797 views | distortR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:47 - Jul 3 by Brightonhoop |
No. Corn Wall had to match fund pound for pound. Pretty good really if you're buying a £20,000 car. But. And it's a but. They failed to meet the spending requirements so have to repay the EU grants. Sad but true. Not sure how you get that wrong but they did. |
I did wonder what 'arry was doing now. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 06:06 - Jul 4 with 1796 views | distortR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:10 - Jul 3 by DannytheR |
No, the ERC decide how they distribute the money. I’d need to check with my sister in law what the exact figure was, but I think over the last few years we’ve had about 3 billion more out of the EU research budget than we put into it.
The science minister Jo Johnson (yes, brother of Boris) said before the referendum that the UK government would be unlikely to be able to make up the difference if we left. There’s been a spending freeze here on scientific research since 2010. |
You really haven't been listening, have you? Out of the eu, we'll have billions more to spend on what we want. We're going to get a MASSIVE new, shiny train set for starters! | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:55 - Jul 4 with 1770 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 06:06 - Jul 4 by distortR |
You really haven't been listening, have you? Out of the eu, we'll have billions more to spend on what we want. We're going to get a MASSIVE new, shiny train set for starters! |
Massive new shiny train sets for everyone.
The thing with science and research is that it's not going to be missed by people until it's too late - outside of the sector itself, people won't notice any change to their daily life as it shrinks. "Brilliant thing not invented after all" isn't going to grab any headlines.
Researchers have always found that if you say to politicians who depend on five year election cycles 'Oh we've got this idea, it might change the world in fifteen years,' they have no reason to support it. Why should they care what happens in fifteen years?
For all its many flaws, that's why the EU has been so helpful for science and technology, because it can afford to invest in very long term ideas. It totally changed the game for research, and now we're walking away from it. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:09 - Jul 4 with 1743 views | QPR_John |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:10 - Jul 3 by DannytheR |
No, the ERC decide how they distribute the money. I’d need to check with my sister in law what the exact figure was, but I think over the last few years we’ve had about 3 billion more out of the EU research budget than we put into it.
The science minister Jo Johnson (yes, brother of Boris) said before the referendum that the UK government would be unlikely to be able to make up the difference if we left. There’s been a spending freeze here on scientific research since 2010. |
Sorry to labour the point but I thought our contribution went to the EU and how it is distributed is up to them. So I cannot understand how we got more money out of the ERC than we put in if in practice we did not put any money directly into the ERC fund. Do we get a breakdown of how our contribution is allocated as this is the only way I can see how it can be evaluated | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:52 - Jul 4 with 1698 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:09 - Jul 4 by QPR_John |
Sorry to labour the point but I thought our contribution went to the EU and how it is distributed is up to them. So I cannot understand how we got more money out of the ERC than we put in if in practice we did not put any money directly into the ERC fund. Do we get a breakdown of how our contribution is allocated as this is the only way I can see how it can be evaluated |
This is from the Royal Society report on EU funding of research.
"The UK is one of the largest recipients of research funding in the EU and, although national contributions to the EU budget are not itemised, analyses suggest that the UK receives a greater amount of EU research funding than it contributes. The UK Office of National Statistics (ONS) report an indicative figure for the UK’s contribution to EU research and development of €5.4 billion over the period 2007 — 2013. During this time, the UK received €8.8 billion in direct EU funding for research, development and innovation activities."
The whole document is here:
https://royalsociety.org/~/media/policy/projects/eu-uk-funding/uk-membership-of- | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:59 - Jul 4 with 1640 views | stumbleandfall |
It's already starting. The post utopian brexit hellhole.
The right are proposing Corporation tax cuts for the global behemoths and using foreign nationals as some sort of bargaining chip.
Disgusted and ashamed. Corp tax should never be less than what individuals have to pay. Workers rights will be next. | | | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:05 - Jul 4 with 1631 views | stumbleandfall |
I love Boris's five point plan for Brexit in the Telegraph today.
He obviously could only muster 4. The 5th is just flowery prose and not even an idea. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:13 - Jul 4 with 1606 views | LunarJetman |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:38 - Jul 2 by 1BobbyHazell |
I agree, democracy needs a massive shake up, now seems a good time.
Democracy crushing legislation brought in by people that we get to vote for every 5 years VERSUS Democracy crushing legislation enforced by unelected people whose names we don't even know.
Not the finest choice in the world but at least with the former their is a slim chance of resistance. With the latter none is allowed. [Post edited 2 Jul 2016 12:54]
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"Democracy crushing legislation enforced by unelected people whose names we don't even know."
Except they are elected either directly or indirectly by you and all the other citizens of the EU.
And just because you haven't bothered to find out their names doesn't mean they're any less democratic..... |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:41 - Jul 4 with 1562 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:05 - Jul 4 by stumbleandfall |
I love Boris's five point plan for Brexit in the Telegraph today.
He obviously could only muster 4. The 5th is just flowery prose and not even an idea. |
1) Err
2) Umm
3) Hmph!
4) Well....
5) Jolly good, eh?
Brexit won't happen, I tell thee now. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:44 - Jul 4 with 2561 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:13 - Jul 4 by LunarJetman |
"Democracy crushing legislation enforced by unelected people whose names we don't even know."
Except they are elected either directly or indirectly by you and all the other citizens of the EU.
And just because you haven't bothered to find out their names doesn't mean they're any less democratic..... |
There may be many things in life you can accuse me of but not doing my research on the EU is definitely not one of them!
I am not sure what your definition of democracy is nor what you require from it. What I require is something a little bit more than centralised power dominated by global corporate and financial interests with the ability to bully sovereign nations into accepting their wishes.
These are just a couple of pieces of research that shine a small light on the real power behind the EU's decisions. I find it hard enough for us to make our own sovereign government accountable for their actions in particularly regarding powerful corporate and financial lobbying interests, what chance do we have with with an Institute like the EU?
http://corporateeurope.org/revolving-doors/2015/07/revolving-door-greasing-wheel
http://corporateeurope.org/revolving-doors/2015/10/revolving-doors-spin-again |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:52 - Jul 4 with 2544 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:41 - Jul 4 by Mytch_QPR |
1) Err
2) Umm
3) Hmph!
4) Well....
5) Jolly good, eh?
Brexit won't happen, I tell thee now. |
I was saying the same thing before the vote Mytch. When the establishment want something to happen it generally happens with or without the support of the general public.
As I also said before the vote Boris was not a real brexiter, he was just put there by the powers that be to make sure they would be leading both camps, as soon as they got surprised by the leave vote he was told to step aside as they quickly reshuffle the deck and make sure things still go the way they wish.
I really don't know why so many remainers have been panicking so much(you aside Mytch!), the whole global corporate and financial elite want us to remain, they'll find a f*cking way, they always do. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:55 - Jul 4 with 2539 views | FredManRave |
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36700350
A law firm is taking action to ensure the formal process for the UK leaving the EU is not started without an act of Parliament.
Mishcon de Reya, lawyers acting for a group of business people and academics, said it would be unlawful for a prime minister to trigger Article 50 without a full debate and vote in Parliament.
It comes after the UK voted to leave the EU in the 23 June referendum.
Number 10 said Parliament should "have a role" in deciding the way forward.
Following the referendum, David Cameron announced he would stand down as prime minister by October and would leave his replacement to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.
Once the legal process is triggered there is a two-year time limit to negotiate an exit deal from the EU.
Etc, etc, etc... |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:12 - Jul 4 with 2514 views | TheBlob |
Political suicide voting against the wishes of the people for self serving/self preserving MPs imo.Mass abstentions a solution. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:41 - Jul 4 with 2481 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:12 - Jul 4 by TheBlob |
Political suicide voting against the wishes of the people for self serving/self preserving MPs imo.Mass abstentions a solution. |
What exactly are the wishes of the people, Blob?
Join EFTA and have full free movement of labour and have to pay into EU? No mandate
Leave the EEA and have no access to the single market? No mandate.
No plan for life after EU has ben presented so the wishes of the people are completely unclear. They have to press go on article 50 because that is the one thing the people have voted for. They can't square the circle of wanting access to the single market and not wanting to accept the rules. They have to spit in the face of either people who want no EU migration or those who want to protect our economic position. One way or another, that is indeed poetical suicide for the Tories and UKIP.
Meanwhile they have a tiny majority for the Leave potion. If only a few percentage points decide that they don't like the option presented then a 2nd referendum on going into either the EU or EFTA becomes achievable. And that is game over.
The Brexiters have simply no idea what they've let themselves in for. So far its three down (Johnson, Farage and Gove) and you can add Cameron to that as the architect of the whole thing in a desperate and manifestly failed attempt to untie his party. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 15:18 - Jul 4 with 2466 views | kensalriser |
Construction industry already in instant recesssion.
Foreign secretary sounding like he's nudging open the back door for repatriation.
Super. [Post edited 4 Jul 2016 15:19]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:25 - Jul 4 with 2406 views | TheBlob |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:41 - Jul 4 by CiderwithRsie |
What exactly are the wishes of the people, Blob?
Join EFTA and have full free movement of labour and have to pay into EU? No mandate
Leave the EEA and have no access to the single market? No mandate.
No plan for life after EU has ben presented so the wishes of the people are completely unclear. They have to press go on article 50 because that is the one thing the people have voted for. They can't square the circle of wanting access to the single market and not wanting to accept the rules. They have to spit in the face of either people who want no EU migration or those who want to protect our economic position. One way or another, that is indeed poetical suicide for the Tories and UKIP.
Meanwhile they have a tiny majority for the Leave potion. If only a few percentage points decide that they don't like the option presented then a 2nd referendum on going into either the EU or EFTA becomes achievable. And that is game over.
The Brexiters have simply no idea what they've let themselves in for. So far its three down (Johnson, Farage and Gove) and you can add Cameron to that as the architect of the whole thing in a desperate and manifestly failed attempt to untie his party. |
"When people have nothing and have nothing to lose they lose it."
You tell me genuinely when was the last time there was a feel good factor in the UK?
It's like having a majority shareholding,do you worry about sucking up to minority shares?
Come back in a couple of years' time and you'll see it was the right decision. [Post edited 4 Jul 2016 17:29]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:42 - Jul 4 with 2370 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:25 - Jul 4 by TheBlob |
"When people have nothing and have nothing to lose they lose it."
You tell me genuinely when was the last time there was a feel good factor in the UK?
It's like having a majority shareholding,do you worry about sucking up to minority shares?
Come back in a couple of years' time and you'll see it was the right decision. [Post edited 4 Jul 2016 17:29]
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When was there last a feel good factor in the UK? About 1997-2001. Aftermath of Euro96, Britpop, Blair before he went crazy, pre-Twin Towers, steady economic growth. (And at the very end, the beginning of Ian Holloway's QPR.) Not so long ago really.
Coming back in a couple of years is absolutely the key. If it turns out to be the right decision I'll be only too glad to say so. But it won't. The evidence so far is already bad and it will get worse. Politically the sh*tstorm I predicted well before the result is already well under way and we're only two weeks down the line.
Two years down the line the current minority will be the majority. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:47 - Jul 4 with 2369 views | TheBlob |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:42 - Jul 4 by CiderwithRsie |
When was there last a feel good factor in the UK? About 1997-2001. Aftermath of Euro96, Britpop, Blair before he went crazy, pre-Twin Towers, steady economic growth. (And at the very end, the beginning of Ian Holloway's QPR.) Not so long ago really.
Coming back in a couple of years is absolutely the key. If it turns out to be the right decision I'll be only too glad to say so. But it won't. The evidence so far is already bad and it will get worse. Politically the sh*tstorm I predicted well before the result is already well under way and we're only two weeks down the line.
Two years down the line the current minority will be the majority. |
Are you saying this with a straight face? Blair and Britpop - what a legacy eh?
Anyway,this whole argument has a distinct whiff of trying to convince the Pope god doesn't exist. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:50 - Jul 4 with 2359 views | THEBUSH |
I was in the remain camp, but could see Juncker is part of the problem in the EU.
He should have gone years ago, bit too late now, but hope Merkel does dispose of the old git. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:13 - Jul 4 with 2341 views | THEBUSH |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:47 - Jul 4 by TheBlob |
Are you saying this with a straight face?Blair and Britpop - what a legacy eh?
Anyway,this whole argument has a distinct whiff of trying to convince the Pope god doesn't exist. |
I wonder what the Pope thinks about Brexit, as far as I know the Vatican uses the Euro, so it's sort of in the EU, maybe ?
Perhaps the Pope is angry that the UK is out, I wonder if he has an opinion, anyone heard anything  | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:26 - Jul 4 with 2298 views | derbyhoop |
Boris wants the government to set out the positives of leaving. So I'll have a go:-
1. The financial news hasn't been as bad as some predicted. Thanks, largely to the speech Mark Carney, who was the devil incarnate to some of the Leave supporters 6 weeks ago, made on Friday morning, the markets have calmed down. Even if the £ has fallen heavily against both the $ and the Euro.
2. Boris won't be the next PM
3. Come back to me if I can find a 3rd positive. Or ask me again in 6 months and a further time in 2 years, when the effects have become clearer.
From tonight's Panorama it is clear that the Leave vote was EITHER due to immigration being perceived as the reason why there aren't enough school places or hospital appointments OR a protest vote against austerity measures, which had little to do with the EU and everything to do with the national government.
I suspect, that in 2 years time, if/when things are not radically better, people will look around for someone else to blame. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:31 - Jul 4 with 2254 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:47 - Jul 4 by TheBlob |
Are you saying this with a straight face?Blair and Britpop - what a legacy eh?
Anyway,this whole argument has a distinct whiff of trying to convince the Pope god doesn't exist. |
Anyway,this whole argument has a distinct whiff of trying to convince the Pope god doesn't exist.
48 pages of thread beautifully summed up. | | | |
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