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Email put out by cargiant to rangers fans who went to the fans meeting, saying that they will never let rangers build a new stadium on their land. Maybe anyone who received said email can post it up here.
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
cargiant say no way! on 14:24 - Mar 11 by Hayesender
C+P from someone on one of the many QPR Facebook pages.
They ain't gonna get this over the line, trust me.......They've pissed off Car Giant with dirty tactics in the early stages of negotiations & now CG aren't willing to talk. Me & Tony Mendes set up the Car Giant sponsorship deal 10yrs ago & being ex senior management there I know the club is flogging a dead horse with this, So ask yourself why they're keep just pushing on with this?? Maybe to appease us fans........Maybe they should get things right on the pitch first then build a stadium...Car Giant own pockets of land everywhere around that area, the QPR board are about to step on a property minefield if they keep going with this. It will ultimately cost the club (actually us!!) telephone numbers to oust Car Giant from their land.
Not sure that it will cost QPR as much that OP believes. This will be part of a CPO process for whole OOC development. They may own pockets of land, but as has been pointed out by others it is relatively small amount of the whole area.
Northern, I agree though that the backers of CarGimp are property developers by trade, so are not to be taken lightly in this. I think that after making a complete mess of the first attempt at this the club are now taking a very different track. They are pursuing a different project from the that CarGimps owners want to have. As they neither party now seems I instrested in working togther this is how it is likely to play out in increasingly acrimonious exchanges. QPR have been notably quiet on public pronouncements in the past year as they have developed their concepts.
If this is the response from CarGimp is a planned PR move they probably need new advisers.
Never knowingly understood
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cargiant say no way! on 15:11 - Mar 11 with 3239 views
and now they are pissing off QPR with dirty tactics at this stage of the negotiation. No higher ground for either here, both as bad as each other
It is indeed looking more and more a dirty war, unattributable Facebook quotes from ex CarGiant staff? naughtiness from supporters of other clubs.
There are huge sums of money involved and every conceivable trick in the book will be pulled.
The one thing I will bear in mind is that our club actually does need a new ground and I don't want it to be in Denham or Uxbridge or Milton bleedin' Keynes or Timbuktoo. Despite all the redevelop Loftus Road and all those suggestions that we can build on various other bits of West London, Old Oak Common is the viable, closest to home one, and I will support the clubs efforts in trying to secure OUR future there.
Car Giant have had an easy ride so far on an ex sponsor good old time Rangers supporters riff. Well now they are beginning to come over as a complete bunch of Daniel Toszers and their bullying, undermining tactics ....shall we say less than endearing?
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cargiant say no way! on 15:13 - Mar 11 with 3235 views
cargiant say no way! on 14:19 - Mar 11 by Northernr
Indeed, the used care salesman stuff isn't helpful or true, there's big people behind them and their plans. Need to stop seeing Mendes and the car dealership as the head of their plans.
Who exactly are the "big people" behind Mendes? (just curious)
Who exactly are the "big people" behind Mendes? (just curious)
[Post edited 11 Mar 2016 15:14]
Geoff Warren as Kensal said. Worth about £250m of which more than £100m is London property developments. Mendes is the CEO of a large used car dealership, Warren owns the business, and therefore the land, and is the property developer.
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cargiant say no way! on 15:55 - Mar 11 with 3106 views
cargiant say no way! on 15:25 - Mar 11 by Northernr
Geoff Warren as Kensal said. Worth about £250m of which more than £100m is London property developments. Mendes is the CEO of a large used car dealership, Warren owns the business, and therefore the land, and is the property developer.
Are you sure about your figures there? £100m sounds rather like chicken feed in terms of London property, developed or otherwise.
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cargiant say no way! on 15:56 - Mar 11 with 3108 views
cargiant say no way! on 14:06 - Mar 11 by PeterHucker
Exactly. Cargiant not the ones at fault here. They're behaving very professionally. Our club is not. Everyone knows that the people running our club are prone to prematurely announcing stuff publicly (remember the "dream manager") It makes them look like cowboys who don't know what they're doing. I posted on here a year or 2 ago that I'm related to a councillor in Shepherds Bush and he's said all along that there's no way QPR will get a ground at that site. This is because they don't own the land and the current owners have made it very clear that they're not interested in selling it to them. The planning people at Hammersmith & Fulham council are bemused about why QPR keep saying stuff about Old Oak site because a stadium is never going to happen at that site.
Wow! You've got pretty moderate standards for "very professional" There's no-one "not at fault" here - no black and white situation!
Can we stop with the "sneer-ception", sneering at sneering at sneering on sneering is just too complicated.
[Post edited 11 Mar 2016 16:05]
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cargiant say no way! on 16:01 - Mar 11 with 3081 views
They come across like right cut throat b**tards, aggressive and determined to 'win' vs TF and the QPR board. It's irony that they sponsored us but are now doing their best to kill the long term future of the club and force us out of the area.
cargiant say no way! on 15:55 - Mar 11 by izlingtonhoop
Are you sure about your figures there? £100m sounds rather like chicken feed in terms of London property, developed or otherwise.
Yeh pretty small time in the grand scheme of things, but he's not just "some used care salesman".
It's also £100m more property development than QPR have managed - we can't even get this bloody training ground up and running on a piece of land we've been given for free. And he owns the land, and we don't.
Anyway I don't want it to come across as if I'm supportive of car giant. I don't want us to move as I've said, but they're getting my back up a bit with this outright refusal to even speak to us while at the same time talking about opening a mini science museum in fcking willesden junction
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cargiant say no way! on 16:13 - Mar 11 with 3006 views
cargiant say no way! on 16:08 - Mar 11 by Northernr
Yeh pretty small time in the grand scheme of things, but he's not just "some used care salesman".
It's also £100m more property development than QPR have managed - we can't even get this bloody training ground up and running on a piece of land we've been given for free. And he owns the land, and we don't.
Anyway I don't want it to come across as if I'm supportive of car giant. I don't want us to move as I've said, but they're getting my back up a bit with this outright refusal to even speak to us while at the same time talking about opening a mini science museum in fcking willesden junction
To be fair I think the training ground situation would be solved a lot quicker if we owned the land rather than being seen as a gift from the council.
In fact the stadium situation would be solved if we owned the land...
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cargiant say no way! on 16:14 - Mar 11 with 2999 views
cargiant say no way! on 11:28 - Mar 11 by Northernr
We got the email too, didn't publish it because it's not for us to do Car Giant's bidding for them as a QPR site!
Personally I don't want to move grounds, for small minded personal reasons. I can certainly see why Loftus Road is increasingly unsuitable moving forwards, but personally can't see us moving out of there in my lifetime and worry that this pie in the sky stadium talk is distracting them away from keeping the ground we do have properly maintained and updated as best we can.
I also think QPR went about this badly to start with. Fernandes should have gone down to Car Giant to start with and met them himself. Instead, maybe Beard's fault, they sent a bloke called Anthony Spencer down there who basically told them we'd be building there whether they liked it or not, they could either work with us or against us, stadium would definitely happen, he'd been involved with the Arsenal ground and that happened so it's just tough luck. Got their backs up.
That said, I didn't like the letter one bit. "not an appropriate use of our land" means "won't make us enough money". "We will not speak to QPR or entertain this idea" but they will entertain the idea of some weird Science Museum offshoot for the "cultural quarter"? That just seems petty.
And if it's as cut and dried as they make out, why do they care what QPR are saying? Why do they care what we think about it? It's your land, not ours, you're developing it, not us, fantastic, why do you care what we think and say about it? If I started talking about knocking the house next door to me down so I could build me a nice swimming pool I'm not sure the neighbours would pay much attention.
Just a reminder
Haven't seen this on here. Found it in on dot org. Meeting about the stadium. One quote I noticed.."One thing that became abundantly clear in the meeting was that this new stadium isn't about the club moving forward - it's about the club’s survival. Even at Championship level, this club can’t stand on its own two feet whilst at Loftus Road"
cargiant say no way! on 14:31 - Mar 11 by YorkRanger
Maybe its just me but I find it hard to get excited about the OOC/Car Giant stuff. I can still seeing us being at Loftus Rd in 10 years time and I think it would be far better to focus on how we can extract extra revenue from Loftus Rd. Is it really not viable to find a way to increase capacity by say 4-5k and increase the commercial hospitality opportunities as well. I appreciate it will be complex and expensive, but it must be a lot cheaper than building a completely new stadium. Could this include safe standing in parts of the ground, as PP suggests could something be done with SAR that perhaps widens the stand across the road rather than increase the height.
To be honest, like most on here, I know nothing at all about what is involved. What I do know is that QPR has, for as long as I can remember had a core fan base of c15k. Forget how many went to Wembley and all that nonsense. We are also a mid table Championship side and are likely to remain so for a while yet. Have a look at the Riverside and the Ricoh arena for what happens when the entertainment on the pitch doesn't generate demand in the stands....
I think the only way to increase capacity is make the Paddocks, lower Loft and Lower School end back to terracing. But this would need a change in football rules to do this.
Have you been on a stadium tour? It's worth doing if you get the chance. There just isn't any room for anything to expand into.
SAR 'could' be demolished completely (lets say costs and planning permission/demolition not a problem) and rebuilt with better corporate facilities, dressing rooms, media centre, club staff offices etc but I suspect the capacity would actually end up coming down. We'd probably end up with 15k or less which would make us in an even worse position than already.
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cargiant say no way! on 16:42 - Mar 11 with 2927 views
I think the only way to increase capacity is make the Paddocks, lower Loft and Lower School end back to terracing. But this would need a change in football rules to do this.
Have you been on a stadium tour? It's worth doing if you get the chance. There just isn't any room for anything to expand into.
SAR 'could' be demolished completely (lets say costs and planning permission/demolition not a problem) and rebuilt with better corporate facilities, dressing rooms, media centre, club staff offices etc but I suspect the capacity would actually end up coming down. We'd probably end up with 15k or less which would make us in an even worse position than already.
Yeh the only feasible way of doing anything with LR would be to knock SARS down completely, relocate the club offices to the Ealing training ground and build a much bigger stand, possibly overhanging the road as the one at Villa does, with extra corporate and boxes within that. Doubt you'd ever get it through planning through because it would block all the light to the flats behind it.
You could probably build a bigger, two tiered stand on the land that Ellerslie Road is on, but it doesn't have big enough access routes to cope with any more people.
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cargiant say no way! on 16:46 - Mar 11 with 2913 views
cargiant say no way! on 16:42 - Mar 11 by Northernr
Yeh the only feasible way of doing anything with LR would be to knock SARS down completely, relocate the club offices to the Ealing training ground and build a much bigger stand, possibly overhanging the road as the one at Villa does, with extra corporate and boxes within that. Doubt you'd ever get it through planning through because it would block all the light to the flats behind it.
You could probably build a bigger, two tiered stand on the land that Ellerslie Road is on, but it doesn't have big enough access routes to cope with any more people.
Good idea but yes, can't see this ever getting past planning as it would butt up very close, if not into, the White City Estate.
A two tiered stand in ER would be higher than existing and would also have right to lights issues with the houses behind so back to square one on that too.
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cargiant say no way! on 16:58 - Mar 11 with 2867 views
Good idea but yes, can't see this ever getting past planning as it would butt up very close, if not into, the White City Estate.
A two tiered stand in ER would be higher than existing and would also have right to lights issues with the houses behind so back to square one on that too.
Don't think I'd feel comfortable with having "Aston Villa" written on the SAR stand either.
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cargiant say no way! on 17:19 - Mar 11 with 2818 views
Good idea but yes, can't see this ever getting past planning as it would butt up very close, if not into, the White City Estate.
A two tiered stand in ER would be higher than existing and would also have right to lights issues with the houses behind so back to square one on that too.
Would they? Given that we are in the Northern Hemisphere and the light would therefore come predominantly from the South, would it have the impact on the houses behind Ellerslie Road Stand. Same reason everyone wants a south facing garden, because it gets significantly more light. I will caveat all that with the fact that I have no idea what I am talking about.
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cargiant say no way! on 17:41 - Mar 11 with 2772 views
Good idea but yes, can't see this ever getting past planning as it would butt up very close, if not into, the White City Estate.
A two tiered stand in ER would be higher than existing and would also have right to lights issues with the houses behind so back to square one on that too.
We could do it covering the pavement instead of the road, which would mean the 'right to light' for the flats opposite wouldn't be affected. That would get a third tier on. Moving the offices, etc elsewhere would also free up space for restaurants and bars. And you could always move the changing rooms underground, which is very common in Europe.
It's doable, but would be a last resort.
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cargiant say no way! on 17:49 - Mar 11 with 2752 views
Loftus Road being redeveloped is a none starter, it's all about the corporate suites and the money that gash brings in which is worth more then ST sales. LR does not and will never have enough space for all that all stuff.
It's an out of date ground which wasn't designed to be an all seater.
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cargiant say no way! on 17:52 - Mar 11 with 2752 views
cargiant say no way! on 15:25 - Mar 11 by Northernr
Geoff Warren as Kensal said. Worth about £250m of which more than £100m is London property developments. Mendes is the CEO of a large used car dealership, Warren owns the business, and therefore the land, and is the property developer.
The really big player on this deal is London and Regional - a genuinely massive property developer who've partnered with the Geoff Warren.
All this stuff about QPR v a car dealership is just plain nonsense. It's actually two groups of incredibly wealthy people up against one another - the difference is that one of them owns the land in question. Of the 200 usable acres Warren owns about 1/4.
And I know I've said this before but if it was genuinely about building us a stadium for a sustainable future then we'd have bought the M&S warehouses behind White City station last year. Twice the size of Loftus Rd, sold for £100million, and perfect transport links. But the truth is TF and Co want Old Oak so they can build a stadium, commercial buildings and - most importantly of the lot - 25,000 flats they can sell to the Chinese. We'll just be another tenant in the stadium.
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cargiant say no way! on 17:54 - Mar 11 with 2745 views
cargiant say no way! on 17:52 - Mar 11 by nadera78
The really big player on this deal is London and Regional - a genuinely massive property developer who've partnered with the Geoff Warren.
All this stuff about QPR v a car dealership is just plain nonsense. It's actually two groups of incredibly wealthy people up against one another - the difference is that one of them owns the land in question. Of the 200 usable acres Warren owns about 1/4.
And I know I've said this before but if it was genuinely about building us a stadium for a sustainable future then we'd have bought the M&S warehouses behind White City station last year. Twice the size of Loftus Rd, sold for £100million, and perfect transport links. But the truth is TF and Co want Old Oak so they can build a stadium, commercial buildings and - most importantly of the lot - 25,000 flats they can sell to the Chinese. We'll just be another tenant in the stadium.
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cargiant say no way! on 17:58 - Mar 11 with 2740 views
What's surprising is why CG should even bother corresponding with QPR supporters. Ordinarily, I'd expect developers to be indifferent to the views of a fan base. Why is it important to CG for the fan base to hear their views - directly from them? Makes me wonder if it's a ruse to drive up the price of CG's site or, part of a ploy to demonstrate they have sound commercial intentions for the area in the like of mooted compulsory purchase. It also begs the question that if development of OOC was always on CG's agenda, why wait until after the Club's proposals for the site to counter with theirs? Why didn't they have their own commercial plans underway before?
Also, for a development the size of OOC, CG would need massive funding, from a conglomerate most likely. I doubt any single investor would put their whole hat on this one deal as there's too much risk. Planning delays and construction problems alone could cost a small fortune and empty the pockets of even a wealthy individual in a jiff.
Two other points, though no land law or rights of light expert, I understand that despite supposedly owning parcels of land around CG, it's illegal to alter the land we own to effectively 'land lock' them. So, we can't make alterations denying them access to their own land. About the idea of building a new stand on SAR, a right of light 'injury' to existing owners on the White City Estate has to make a marked reduction to the light to register - something like 50% reduction comes to mind though others on here may be more familiar with this. So a new stand may not be totally off the agenda though I suspect the Club owners view the ground as a commercial entity and will want to realise money from it on most days, if practicable, and not just on match days. And I can't see LR fitting this commercial position.
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