| Mass murder in Kenya 07:25 - Sep 22 with 22843 views | loftboy |
All in the name of that peacefull religion again |  |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 09:34 - Sep 23 with 2042 views | exiled_dictator |
OK, this is going to be my last word on this thread, but unlikely on this subject.
What is happening in Kenya is terrible. A massacre by terrorists. Nothing less. But they are not Islamic terrorists, rather using religion as a cover. They are just terrorists. They may well want change in all Africa bringing in Sharia Law and other draconian measures, but that is them.
And ONLY them.
Yes, there are also Muslims in UK who have similar ideology, but I promise you that they DO NOT represent the majority of us. Someone said that Muslims represent 4.8% of British population, and these idiotic people represent less that 1% of those 4.8%. I told you, I don't know ANYONE who thinks like that at all. It would be naive of me to say these people don't exist, they do, but their voices are totally disproportionate to the rest of us. Daily Mail readers love getting moist over these type of stories; always looking for a boogie-man to frighten the public to justify Government & authority behaviour.
It is crazy for me to hear this, with all the every day crime that happens in the world for people to ONLY focus on what some crazy Muslims do. Al Shaabab does NOT represent modern Islam, rather a very small branch that is lost 1000 years ago. We have no ambition to take over the world, to force you to convert to Islam, to make you live under Sharia Law, to make you only eat Halal foods. Yes you will hear voices from some British Muslims calling for this, but again, the number of people calling for this is so very small. The press has blown this totally out of proportion (sorry for the bad usage of word).
These idiots in Somalia who caused this terrorist attack is more revenge to Kenya for their involvement in recent fighting in Somalia. And who are Al Shaabab? I have read that there is less that 10,000 peoples in total, but every one is a killer. And the current estimated world Muslim population is 1.6 BILLION, or 23% of the world population. And all people can focus on is these 10,000 idiots.
Yes it is very scary with these indiscriminate killings, but we need deep breaths and stronger hold on reality. More likely to be hit by a bus than meet one of these idiots. |  |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 10:26 - Sep 23 with 2041 views | isawqpratwcity |
Absolute stupidity. Allow me to rephrase your argument.
"My figure plucked out of the air is smaller than your figure plucked out of the air, so that makes me right and you wrong." |  |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 10:36 - Sep 23 with 2029 views | Juzzie |
Exiled,
decent, true, honest Muslims like yourself have got to start saying publicly en masse they abhor these atrocities done in their name and that it is NOT in their name. It's giving them a bad name all over the world and the more these terrorists hide behind Islam, the worse it will get for Muslims.
I see clerics making half hearted, insincere condemnation of the atrocities and if I can see it, chances are millions of others will too. You've got to stop the likes of Anjem Choudary, Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza al‑Masri etc. who are poisoning your faith and using people for their own ulterior motives.
Sorry, but the problem can now only be solved from within. Do nothing and it will get worse. [Post edited 23 Sep 2013 10:49]
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 10:37 - Sep 23 with 2027 views | HollowayRanger |
1 nutter
is one too many |  |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 10:45 - Sep 23 with 2013 views | Watford_Ranger |
Talk about a crime against fashion... |  | | |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 10:49 - Sep 23 with 2004 views | Bluce_Ree |
I reckon this all just comes down to the fact that these hot countries are too hot for their own good. It makes everyone irritable and eventually folks are going to kill each other.
Imagine if that summer we just had lasted for say 30 years.
You'd have some dead motherf*ckers up in this country. That's all I'm saying.
Religion, oil, war, money, territory. It all just comes down to the fact that people are pricks and if your country is a hot, dusty mess you're basically f*cked. |  |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:05 - Sep 23 with 1977 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 10:36 - Sep 23 by Juzzie |
Exiled,
decent, true, honest Muslims like yourself have got to start saying publicly en masse they abhor these atrocities done in their name and that it is NOT in their name. It's giving them a bad name all over the world and the more these terrorists hide behind Islam, the worse it will get for Muslims.
I see clerics making half hearted, insincere condemnation of the atrocities and if I can see it, chances are millions of others will too. You've got to stop the likes of Anjem Choudary, Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza al‑Masri etc. who are poisoning your faith and using people for their own ulterior motives.
Sorry, but the problem can now only be solved from within. Do nothing and it will get worse. [Post edited 23 Sep 2013 10:49]
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If we truly want world peace, all of us need to start condemning all genocide, including that committed in our name. Nothing else will work.
Violence only begets more violence. |  | | |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:14 - Sep 23 with 1963 views | Pommyhoop |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 10:36 - Sep 23 by Juzzie |
Exiled,
decent, true, honest Muslims like yourself have got to start saying publicly en masse they abhor these atrocities done in their name and that it is NOT in their name. It's giving them a bad name all over the world and the more these terrorists hide behind Islam, the worse it will get for Muslims.
I see clerics making half hearted, insincere condemnation of the atrocities and if I can see it, chances are millions of others will too. You've got to stop the likes of Anjem Choudary, Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza al‑Masri etc. who are poisoning your faith and using people for their own ulterior motives.
Sorry, but the problem can now only be solved from within. Do nothing and it will get worse. [Post edited 23 Sep 2013 10:49]
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This ^^^^^^
These nutters are destroying the worlds view of Islam ,not the scare tactics of the Daily Fail. |  |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:26 - Sep 23 with 1950 views | isawqpratwcity |
Yeh, sure you were being empirical and evidential without referring to statistics, except to arbitrarily decide that Muslims were 100 times more likely to be a problem than any other group. You probably don't even think you're a racist.
And it is a bullsh*t argument to exclude the highest risk ethnic group, whatever that is. Immigration screening is about excluding the unacceptable risk individuals. | |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:31 - Sep 23 with 1944 views | Aunt_Nelly |
Bollocks to religion. |  | | |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:32 - Sep 23 with 1939 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:14 - Sep 23 by Pommyhoop |
This ^^^^^^
These nutters are destroying the worlds view of Islam ,not the scare tactics of the Daily Fail. |
I disagree, only the simple minded would let the actions of 15 nutters alter their view of a whole religion and its participants.
Lets all keep peace in mind and think about what we can really do individually and collectively rather than just letting fearful, angry, violent and vengeful thoughts dominate our thinking and actions. [Post edited 23 Sep 2013 11:33]
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:38 - Sep 23 with 1927 views | Pommyhoop |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:32 - Sep 23 by 1BobbyHazell |
I disagree, only the simple minded would let the actions of 15 nutters alter their view of a whole religion and its participants.
Lets all keep peace in mind and think about what we can really do individually and collectively rather than just letting fearful, angry, violent and vengeful thoughts dominate our thinking and actions. [Post edited 23 Sep 2013 11:33]
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Agree.But like Juzzie I think a whole lot more could be achieved if more Muslims came out and totally condemmed these actions and stated that thes people are in no way a part of Islam. | |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:41 - Sep 23 with 1922 views | Juzzie |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:38 - Sep 23 by Pommyhoop |
Agree.But like Juzzie I think a whole lot more could be achieved if more Muslims came out and totally condemmed these actions and stated that thes people are in no way a part of Islam. |
That was my point, it's got to start coming from within the Muslim 'community' (I hate that way of saying it but will use it in this instance) publicly and in large numbers.
18BH, there's no point in the west getting all uppity over their morning breakfast or having a love-in, do you think the extremists give a flying? I would hope they'd take more notice if hundreds of thousands of their own people stood up against them.
[Post edited 23 Sep 2013 12:00]
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:44 - Sep 23 with 1915 views | Pommyhoop |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:41 - Sep 23 by Juzzie |
That was my point, it's got to start coming from within the Muslim 'community' (I hate that way of saying it but will use it in this instance) publicly and in large numbers.
18BH, there's no point in the west getting all uppity over their morning breakfast or having a love-in, do you think the extremists give a flying? I would hope they'd take more notice if hundreds of thousands of their own people stood up against them.
[Post edited 23 Sep 2013 12:00]
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Yep. remember The Peace Women who marched in Northern Ireland with the 'Not in my name' theme. It works | |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:51 - Sep 23 with 1904 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:41 - Sep 23 by Juzzie |
That was my point, it's got to start coming from within the Muslim 'community' (I hate that way of saying it but will use it in this instance) publicly and in large numbers.
18BH, there's no point in the west getting all uppity over their morning breakfast or having a love-in, do you think the extremists give a flying? I would hope they'd take more notice if hundreds of thousands of their own people stood up against them.
[Post edited 23 Sep 2013 12:00]
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My point Juzzie is really about looking at violence as a whole and in particular looking at 'our' part in it. If it is right to expect/hope for Muslims to condemn this horrific attack what of our responsibility for the genocide we play our part in?
Peace begins with self responsibility. | | | |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 12:03 - Sep 23 with 1875 views | Juzzie |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:51 - Sep 23 by 1BobbyHazell |
My point Juzzie is really about looking at violence as a whole and in particular looking at 'our' part in it. If it is right to expect/hope for Muslims to condemn this horrific attack what of our responsibility for the genocide we play our part in?
Peace begins with self responsibility. |
Oh I agree. We've already had people in the UK demonstrating and saying we should pull our troops out of the middle east etc. (lets face it, the west isn't exactly innocent either).
I was listening to LBC yesterday afternoon as I was driving and so many people are now getting sick to death of all politicians from all parties promising this, that & the other as an election approaches and doing bugger all when getting into office. More and more people were saying they want a 'none of the above' box on the voting slip. This way they get to show they are not happy with anyone as not voting doesn't actually achieve this.
I doubt the government would do this because they are afraid of the truth and would be forced to act upon those 'none of the above' votes and why would they want to do that when it's far too cushy at the moment?
We're making ourselves heard against our extremists (the government!) so it's now the Muslim's turn to start joining in publically and in large numbers against their extremists.
[Post edited 23 Sep 2013 12:40]
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 13:56 - Sep 23 with 1817 views | sqpr |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 12:03 - Sep 23 by Juzzie |
Oh I agree. We've already had people in the UK demonstrating and saying we should pull our troops out of the middle east etc. (lets face it, the west isn't exactly innocent either).
I was listening to LBC yesterday afternoon as I was driving and so many people are now getting sick to death of all politicians from all parties promising this, that & the other as an election approaches and doing bugger all when getting into office. More and more people were saying they want a 'none of the above' box on the voting slip. This way they get to show they are not happy with anyone as not voting doesn't actually achieve this.
I doubt the government would do this because they are afraid of the truth and would be forced to act upon those 'none of the above' votes and why would they want to do that when it's far too cushy at the moment?
We're making ourselves heard against our extremists (the government!) so it's now the Muslim's turn to start joining in publically and in large numbers against their extremists.
[Post edited 23 Sep 2013 12:40]
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(AGI) - Peshawar (Pakistan), 22 September - E 'of at least 25 dead, including 4 children, the death toll from an attack in Peshawar, outside a church. A blow themselves up would be, according to security sources, two men in the crowd that came out of the place of prayer. The wounded are 46. (AGI). - | | | |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 14:00 - Sep 23 with 1808 views | isawqpratwcity |
I don't know whether Muslims are any more likely than any other group to cause problems in the UK. I AM pretty sure that they are not 100 times more likely than any other group, as you had suggested.
But let's go with an anonymous ethnic group that has a, let's say, 1% problem rate and the UK has immigration applications from 10,000 of this ethnic group. You would exclude 9,900 acceptable applicants fpr the sake of 100 potential problems. That would be racist. Immigration control should apply reasonable scrutiny to sort out potential problem individuals.
I didn't say that Muslims are no more likely to cause problems, and nor do I think it should be ignored. An inquiry as to the individual's exposure to various radical Muslim organisations might be a very good place to start. Good luck transferring the title of racist to me, Mr. Muslims-Are-A-Hundred-Times-Worse. | |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 14:32 - Sep 23 with 2593 views | timcocking |
Blow myself up and i get 72 virgins? Hmmm, yes, that's certainly very believable. Just wait while i circumcise my daughter first. |  | | |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 14:48 - Sep 23 with 2584 views | isawqpratwcity |
"If you're looking at immigration policy and there's a 1 in a hundred chance a muslim might be trouble, but people with other backgrounds are say 1 in 100,000..."
You took ED's nominal figure, and then counter-argued with one that says Muslims are 100 times worse. It's clear as day.
And as for "uneducated pensioners from Australia" (no, you don't get personal, do you?), well you are broadening the argument somewhat but let's run with it, so you would exclude all Australians on that basis? No, of course you wouldn't, because you said "uneducated pensioners from Australia", whereas in your original post you said "and there's a 1 in a hundred chance a muslim might be trouble, but people with other backgrounds are say 1 in 100,000 then it makes sense to choose the latter..." so you are discriminating against some-one on the ground that they are just a Muslim, nothing else proven or even reasonably suspected.
I understand why you find the term racist hard to disprove. | |
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 14:48 - Sep 23 with 2585 views | Juzzie |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 14:32 - Sep 23 by timcocking |
Blow myself up and i get 72 virgins? Hmmm, yes, that's certainly very believable. Just wait while i circumcise my daughter first. |
They're probably virgins for a reason, did they think of that?
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| Mass murder in Kenya on 15:10 - Sep 23 with 2553 views | NW5Hoop |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 11:12 - Sep 22 by essextaxiboy |
When the Muslim Council condemn these attacks I get the feeling they are just going through the motions.
When will we see an arrest of a radical through intelligence provided by the Muslim community .
IMO Never . |
How do you know we haven't already? I believe it's not really the done thing in intelligence services to say exactly where they got their information from. Endangering sources and all that. | | | |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 15:41 - Sep 23 with 2517 views | exiled_dictator |
| Mass murder in Kenya on 14:32 - Sep 23 by timcocking |
Blow myself up and i get 72 virgins? Hmmm, yes, that's certainly very believable. Just wait while i circumcise my daughter first. |
Tim, you have surely lived upto your name on this one.
Muslims do not circumcise their daughters.
Female genital mutilation (FGM), is practiced as a cultural ritual by ethnic groups in 28 countries in sub-Sarahan and north-east Africa. As a culture, religion, ethnicity or whatever, there are NO religious requirements for this to happen. It is more of an ethnic marker, and has no religious significance at all.
I have 4 sister-in-laws, 3 sisters, 1 wife, 3 daughters countless nieces, aunts & other female members of my family, as well as knowing many many female Muslims, and I don't know, or have ever heard of anyone being circumcised. It is not a practice that we recognise or approve of.
Just try & get your facts right before posting here, or it just makes you look silly, if not a bigot. | |
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