| Fact of the day - Unemployment 08:19 - Jan 12 with 5969 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
UK Unemployment - 4.2%
EU Unemployment - 7.2%
Remember that anyone who voted Brexit was labelled an idiot and 'Remainers' lined up to tell us that voting for Brexit would result in massive unemployment.
Stop taking seriously the people who are being proved wrong, consistently. |  |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
| |  |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 13:32 - Jan 12 with 1063 views | Boundy |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 12:50 - Jan 12 by Ebo |
f uck the UK and f uck the pound |
Physically impossible but have a go , you may surprise us |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 13:35 - Jan 12 with 1052 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 12:50 - Jan 12 by Ebo |
f uck the UK and f uck the pound |
Wow. | | | |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 13:37 - Jan 12 with 1046 views | Whiterockin |
How to make a quick exit. |  | | |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 13:54 - Jan 12 with 1018 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 12:50 - Jan 12 by Ebo |
f uck the UK and f uck the pound |
That's right, be honest with everybody. | |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 16:08 - Jan 12 with 978 views | ItchySphincter |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 13:03 - Jan 12 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Well I did say it’s an absolute disgrace but it’s not as you are suggesting an issue around brexit. |
It’s fundamental issue on governance. This is the government Brexit got us. I didn’t start the anti-EU to thread btw. |  |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 16:23 - Jan 12 with 972 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 12:41 - Jan 12 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
It is an absolute disgrace that in 2022 people in the wealthiest countries in the world can’t afford food or heating. |
A lot probably can afford food unfortunately a lage number would rather spend their money on alcohol, tobacco tattoos, gambling, mobiles and the latest electronic gadgets. | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 16:44 - Jan 12 with 966 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 16:23 - Jan 12 by felixstowe_jack |
A lot probably can afford food unfortunately a lage number would rather spend their money on alcohol, tobacco tattoos, gambling, mobiles and the latest electronic gadgets. |
Oh gawd, now you've gone and done it. |  | | |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 17:14 - Jan 12 with 945 views | Catullus |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 12:40 - Jan 12 by ItchySphincter |
Ahhh, so I’m detecting from the ‘whataboutery’ of the last few posts that necessity for foodbanks is completely acceptable in a developed society which appears to be congratulating itself on a job well done in comparison to other countries.
Rightio, as you were. |
Of course foodbanks in developed countries are a disgrace. If you are linking foodbanks to brexit though, it's hardly whataboutery to point out that the 2 richest current EU members have foodbanks too.
What it really does it point out the failings of our system of capitalism. The rich get ever richer but the people that make them rich get left behind. There is no fairness or equality, not in the UK, not in the EU. All that matters is money. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 19:14 - Jan 12 with 910 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 17:14 - Jan 12 by Catullus |
Of course foodbanks in developed countries are a disgrace. If you are linking foodbanks to brexit though, it's hardly whataboutery to point out that the 2 richest current EU members have foodbanks too.
What it really does it point out the failings of our system of capitalism. The rich get ever richer but the people that make them rich get left behind. There is no fairness or equality, not in the UK, not in the EU. All that matters is money. |
As a wise man once said: “It's only the miracle of consumer capitalism that means you're not lying in your own shit, dying at 43 with rotten teeth.” | | | |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 19:15 - Jan 12 with 908 views | ItchySphincter |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 16:23 - Jan 12 by felixstowe_jack |
A lot probably can afford food unfortunately a lage number would rather spend their money on alcohol, tobacco tattoos, gambling, mobiles and the latest electronic gadgets. |
Warra load of rubbish. Sums up the mean-spiritedness of the faux-right though. Delusions of higher class and grandeur. 
Just for the record - you’re saying we wouldn’t need food banks if people stopped spending their money on tattoos and tobacco, yeah? That’s what your saying? | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 20:09 - Jan 12 with 890 views | jack_lord |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 17:14 - Jan 12 by Catullus |
Of course foodbanks in developed countries are a disgrace. If you are linking foodbanks to brexit though, it's hardly whataboutery to point out that the 2 richest current EU members have foodbanks too.
What it really does it point out the failings of our system of capitalism. The rich get ever richer but the people that make them rich get left behind. There is no fairness or equality, not in the UK, not in the EU. All that matters is money. |
So basically Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations is a load of tripe because there really is no invisible hand. |  |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 21:30 - Jan 12 with 871 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 17:14 - Jan 12 by Catullus |
Of course foodbanks in developed countries are a disgrace. If you are linking foodbanks to brexit though, it's hardly whataboutery to point out that the 2 richest current EU members have foodbanks too.
What it really does it point out the failings of our system of capitalism. The rich get ever richer but the people that make them rich get left behind. There is no fairness or equality, not in the UK, not in the EU. All that matters is money. |
1 - Capitalism has been interfered with by various governments of this country and the World. People seem to forget this .
2 - 'Capitalism' has ensured that everybody gets fed, is kept warm, has a roof over their heads, has health care...and still has enough left over for luxury items, such as tattoos, nail art, haircuts, drugs, booze, massive t.v.s and electric scooters.
The problem is the masses of unproductive people who live off the proceeds of other people, those who are concentrated on creating wealth, who have been taught that the world owes them something.
The world owes nobody anything. Life is a battle, a fight, a struggle.
We aren't born into the 'Garden of Eden', that was always bullshite.
We are born in the pish and the mud and the blood...and then are dependent on our parents for 16 or so years!
We survive by being clever, working our nuts off, striving to get ahead (get ahead of dying - e.g. storing enough food for the winter), scrapping.
If we don't do those things we are screwed.
...and I hate to have to tell you but after a sustained period of people being taught the opposite of truth, by Lefties, we are looking pretty screwed
What Socialists believe is that the most productive hard working people owe the lazy/stupid people a meal, clothes, a house and sustenance.
It's ok at this stage, where the lazy/stupid are encouraged to throw rocks at the productive whilst they toil on...producing the goods that the lazy/stupid have become accustomed too...but once the Socialists have whipped the lazy/stupid into enough of a frenzy that they seize power and kill/imprison all the "evil" productive people it always goes a bit tits up for the lazy/stupid and their Socialist aristocracy, to put it mildly.
We all need to understand that we are responsible for for ourselves, our wives/husbands and our children.
It is not up to anybody else to carry your load, it is immoral to demand it of other people.
What started out as good intentions (funneling taxes to the economically unproductive to relieve poverty) has morphed into something very ugly...millions of people encouraged to believe that they don't have to work, they don't have to be productive or be responsible for themselves. They aren't responsible for feeding/clothing their children, for teaching them right from wrong.
'It is somebody else's fault if my life is a mess. Gimme' is the demand. | |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 21:49 - Jan 12 with 856 views | jack_lord |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 21:30 - Jan 12 by Ajack_Kerouac |
1 - Capitalism has been interfered with by various governments of this country and the World. People seem to forget this .
2 - 'Capitalism' has ensured that everybody gets fed, is kept warm, has a roof over their heads, has health care...and still has enough left over for luxury items, such as tattoos, nail art, haircuts, drugs, booze, massive t.v.s and electric scooters.
The problem is the masses of unproductive people who live off the proceeds of other people, those who are concentrated on creating wealth, who have been taught that the world owes them something.
The world owes nobody anything. Life is a battle, a fight, a struggle.
We aren't born into the 'Garden of Eden', that was always bullshite.
We are born in the pish and the mud and the blood...and then are dependent on our parents for 16 or so years!
We survive by being clever, working our nuts off, striving to get ahead (get ahead of dying - e.g. storing enough food for the winter), scrapping.
If we don't do those things we are screwed.
...and I hate to have to tell you but after a sustained period of people being taught the opposite of truth, by Lefties, we are looking pretty screwed
What Socialists believe is that the most productive hard working people owe the lazy/stupid people a meal, clothes, a house and sustenance.
It's ok at this stage, where the lazy/stupid are encouraged to throw rocks at the productive whilst they toil on...producing the goods that the lazy/stupid have become accustomed too...but once the Socialists have whipped the lazy/stupid into enough of a frenzy that they seize power and kill/imprison all the "evil" productive people it always goes a bit tits up for the lazy/stupid and their Socialist aristocracy, to put it mildly.
We all need to understand that we are responsible for for ourselves, our wives/husbands and our children.
It is not up to anybody else to carry your load, it is immoral to demand it of other people.
What started out as good intentions (funneling taxes to the economically unproductive to relieve poverty) has morphed into something very ugly...millions of people encouraged to believe that they don't have to work, they don't have to be productive or be responsible for themselves. They aren't responsible for feeding/clothing their children, for teaching them right from wrong.
'It is somebody else's fault if my life is a mess. Gimme' is the demand. |
It was reading fairly well until you let your right bias in.
That is not what socialists believe, not for one second.
There are very many lazy or downtrodden people that do but not socialists. | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 21:56 - Jan 12 with 854 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 21:49 - Jan 12 by jack_lord |
It was reading fairly well until you let your right bias in.
That is not what socialists believe, not for one second.
There are very many lazy or downtrodden people that do but not socialists. |
Well then why don't you tell me what Socialists believe?
How do they intend to make poor people's problems go away? | |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 22:00 - Jan 12 with 852 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 20:09 - Jan 12 by jack_lord |
So basically Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations is a load of tripe because there really is no invisible hand. |
...and forgive me if I have misinterpreted you but is this post you agreeing with Catulus that Capitalism doesn't work or is inherently corrupt?
Would you mind explaining, 'Compared to what?'
In the countries that have been run by Socialists are people better fed? | |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 22:13 - Jan 12 with 843 views | jack_lord |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 22:00 - Jan 12 by Ajack_Kerouac |
...and forgive me if I have misinterpreted you but is this post you agreeing with Catulus that Capitalism doesn't work or is inherently corrupt?
Would you mind explaining, 'Compared to what?'
In the countries that have been run by Socialists are people better fed? |
Capitalism doesn't work in its purest form.
The countries run by socialists are not filled with scroungers.
In reality, economies work when there is the correct level of government intervention but lazy scroungers are a problem. | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 22:56 - Jan 12 with 824 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 22:13 - Jan 12 by jack_lord |
Capitalism doesn't work in its purest form.
The countries run by socialists are not filled with scroungers.
In reality, economies work when there is the correct level of government intervention but lazy scroungers are a problem. |
No, the countries run by Socialists are filled with slaves, with an aristocracy of party loyalists on top.
When the people of China were persuaded to have their revolution they were told that on the other side their life would be better as resources would be distributed more fairly.
What actually happened was murder and famine on a grand scale, followed by slavery to their idiot masters...Mao ordered the peasants to kill every Starling once, he blamed the birds for the famine he and his fellow idiots created.
Anyone who questioned whether their time could be better spent rather than killing birds, when their families were starving of hunger, would have been sent to a camp to be re-educated or imprisoned or put to slave labour or murdered.
That is what Socialism is.
I wish it wasn't, but it is a pattern that has been repeated wherever it has been implemented, just takes Socialists and time...Venezuela is well on the road to it, you'll read about it one day...if we still have a free press.
Government intervention should be as light as possible.
Defence.
Police.
Courts.
Roads.
Transport.
Tax collection.
Education
Essential health care.
Other than that not much.
Can invest in the future by encouraging industry and International investment by taking the occasional punt. Public money spent should always leave the public with something to show for it though, some infrastructure.
Education -
if done right. It all hinges on education really...children should at the very least leave school having learnt; literacy, mathematics, discipline, morality/philosophy, their own culture, their own history, a basic understanding of how their country works, what the society expects of them, an understanding of the wider World and some skills...they certainly don't all have to be academics.
We need to be churning out useful people of good moral character who have some hope.
The average Comp these days has a multitude of kids wandering the corridors and the grounds, avoiding their responsibility to society to receive an education. The teachers are too weak to do anything about it.
Meanwhile in the classroom, in-between the occasional attempts at genuine education, the kids are having a metaphorical lobotomy administered.
The bullies, the popular and the stupid are in charge of the classroom (sometimes these are the teachers)...kids who have been brought up to understand right from wrong are sitting cowed in the corners, casually ignored.
Nobody is challenged to think, to really think, to challenge themselves.
If a debate is attempted (a couple of times a year), it is a largely pointless exercise because it is impossible to debate without the background knowledge and the ability to think rationally.
There's no point you see.
A real nihilistic sh*t show organised by people who believe in rights and find the word 'responsibility' to be obsolete.
Without a properly educated populace it all falls apart. [Post edited 12 Jan 2022 22:58]
| |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 23:22 - Jan 12 with 811 views | jack_lord |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 22:56 - Jan 12 by Ajack_Kerouac |
No, the countries run by Socialists are filled with slaves, with an aristocracy of party loyalists on top.
When the people of China were persuaded to have their revolution they were told that on the other side their life would be better as resources would be distributed more fairly.
What actually happened was murder and famine on a grand scale, followed by slavery to their idiot masters...Mao ordered the peasants to kill every Starling once, he blamed the birds for the famine he and his fellow idiots created.
Anyone who questioned whether their time could be better spent rather than killing birds, when their families were starving of hunger, would have been sent to a camp to be re-educated or imprisoned or put to slave labour or murdered.
That is what Socialism is.
I wish it wasn't, but it is a pattern that has been repeated wherever it has been implemented, just takes Socialists and time...Venezuela is well on the road to it, you'll read about it one day...if we still have a free press.
Government intervention should be as light as possible.
Defence.
Police.
Courts.
Roads.
Transport.
Tax collection.
Education
Essential health care.
Other than that not much.
Can invest in the future by encouraging industry and International investment by taking the occasional punt. Public money spent should always leave the public with something to show for it though, some infrastructure.
Education -
if done right. It all hinges on education really...children should at the very least leave school having learnt; literacy, mathematics, discipline, morality/philosophy, their own culture, their own history, a basic understanding of how their country works, what the society expects of them, an understanding of the wider World and some skills...they certainly don't all have to be academics.
We need to be churning out useful people of good moral character who have some hope.
The average Comp these days has a multitude of kids wandering the corridors and the grounds, avoiding their responsibility to society to receive an education. The teachers are too weak to do anything about it.
Meanwhile in the classroom, in-between the occasional attempts at genuine education, the kids are having a metaphorical lobotomy administered.
The bullies, the popular and the stupid are in charge of the classroom (sometimes these are the teachers)...kids who have been brought up to understand right from wrong are sitting cowed in the corners, casually ignored.
Nobody is challenged to think, to really think, to challenge themselves.
If a debate is attempted (a couple of times a year), it is a largely pointless exercise because it is impossible to debate without the background knowledge and the ability to think rationally.
There's no point you see.
A real nihilistic sh*t show organised by people who believe in rights and find the word 'responsibility' to be obsolete.
Without a properly educated populace it all falls apart. [Post edited 12 Jan 2022 22:58]
|
So socialists don't believe that the most productive hard working people owe the lazy/stupid people a meal, clothes, a house and sustenance then?
Government intervention is exactly what it needs to be. It does not have a bottomless pit and infrastructure is hugely important. Defence etc; carries an immense cost but where foes the balance lye?
At the opposite end of the free market spectrum, you have extreme wealth that creates its own royal families who are a very different type of scrounger. Unfortunately that wealth does not permeate through society like Adam Smith suggested. That is where we end up with food banks. Scroungers and lazy people couldn't exist in Smith's time and I agree that people who believe in rights need to understand responsibility. | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 00:24 - Jan 13 with 797 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 23:22 - Jan 12 by jack_lord |
So socialists don't believe that the most productive hard working people owe the lazy/stupid people a meal, clothes, a house and sustenance then?
Government intervention is exactly what it needs to be. It does not have a bottomless pit and infrastructure is hugely important. Defence etc; carries an immense cost but where foes the balance lye?
At the opposite end of the free market spectrum, you have extreme wealth that creates its own royal families who are a very different type of scrounger. Unfortunately that wealth does not permeate through society like Adam Smith suggested. That is where we end up with food banks. Scroungers and lazy people couldn't exist in Smith's time and I agree that people who believe in rights need to understand responsibility. |
Great, you obviously have never read Adam Smith, or if you did, you didn't understand his arguments...and you didn't even bother to give me an example of a society run by Socialists which achieved better outcomes. Telling.
...but we agree on the importance of responsibility at least, which is good.
Have you ever been to Asia?
I have, to an ex-communist country.
I witnessed people all skin and bones, begging on the streets. Genuinely hungry people who live in shacks, no mod cons, no electronic luxuries, no beauty products, no nights out.
I don't believe we have a crisis of people in desperate need of food. I trust my own two eyes.
I know of a boy whose father is a drug user (never worked) who lives on his own (the boy's Grandmother subsidises him), whose mother is an ex drug user (only briefly ever had a part time job - doesn't work now). The boy and his mother lives in a council house (nothing wrong with that, I grew up for a time in a council house - a council house where both parents worked and didn't spend their days smashed on drugs and alcohol).
The fridge is full, the boy s given money for fast food every time he goes anywhere, the furniture is purchased for them (the old broken furniture is lobbed in a pile in the garden - for aesthetic purposes I suppose), mum smokes, mum has tatoos, boy has an Xbox, mum goes out and buys him new clothes regular (it's important to look good), for Christmas the boy received more gifts than my son (I don't want to teach my son to be materialistic, he has everything he needs and gets presents that mean something - if he wants something big he has to earn it...this can be through chores or achieving something, if he sets himself a goal and achieves it I reward him)...the biggest present the boy in question received was an electric scooter (£400+), so he doesn't have to break sweat I presume. It was broken within a week.
According to government statistics this family would be at the bottom of our society, I'm sure the mum uses food banks.
I don't feel sorry for this family, except for the boy who is semi-literate and utterly incapable...not his fault that he hasn't been parented.
If anything Capitalism has been too successful, there is that much excess that unproductive people who make terrible choices and literally do nothing with their lives, they just exist and consume, can live perfectly comfortable lives.
If this family knew me better they would perhaps see what myself and my wife have created for our family and be jealous. They might think that it is unfair that they can't have the same, but...
1 - it is fair, we have spent our lives working for it, made decisions that meant we went without for a time in order to get to where we wanted to be.
&
2 - They could have had the same - they had the same opportunities as I did - they rejected those opportunities though in favour of self-indulgence and self-pity...and in fact although they can no longer have the same (missed that boat) they could have more, but they would have to wake up and get a bloody move on.
I can't feel sorry for people who are using food banks when I wonder what the people I met in Asia would make of it all. It's impossible.
Ultimately, if people really care, they need to stop focusing on materialistic shite and instead concentrate on fixing people.
People don't need to be molly-coddled, they don't need pity, nobody is going to have a better life because they have the latest phone/video games console/designer clothes or because they are eating a ready meal from M&S rather than a stir fry made from leftovers (I would rather eat the stir fry. I would rather make the stir fry).
It is spiritual healing our society needs. A return to 'Meaning', a purpose. | |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 06:51 - Jan 13 with 765 views | ItchySphincter |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 22:56 - Jan 12 by Ajack_Kerouac |
No, the countries run by Socialists are filled with slaves, with an aristocracy of party loyalists on top.
When the people of China were persuaded to have their revolution they were told that on the other side their life would be better as resources would be distributed more fairly.
What actually happened was murder and famine on a grand scale, followed by slavery to their idiot masters...Mao ordered the peasants to kill every Starling once, he blamed the birds for the famine he and his fellow idiots created.
Anyone who questioned whether their time could be better spent rather than killing birds, when their families were starving of hunger, would have been sent to a camp to be re-educated or imprisoned or put to slave labour or murdered.
That is what Socialism is.
I wish it wasn't, but it is a pattern that has been repeated wherever it has been implemented, just takes Socialists and time...Venezuela is well on the road to it, you'll read about it one day...if we still have a free press.
Government intervention should be as light as possible.
Defence.
Police.
Courts.
Roads.
Transport.
Tax collection.
Education
Essential health care.
Other than that not much.
Can invest in the future by encouraging industry and International investment by taking the occasional punt. Public money spent should always leave the public with something to show for it though, some infrastructure.
Education -
if done right. It all hinges on education really...children should at the very least leave school having learnt; literacy, mathematics, discipline, morality/philosophy, their own culture, their own history, a basic understanding of how their country works, what the society expects of them, an understanding of the wider World and some skills...they certainly don't all have to be academics.
We need to be churning out useful people of good moral character who have some hope.
The average Comp these days has a multitude of kids wandering the corridors and the grounds, avoiding their responsibility to society to receive an education. The teachers are too weak to do anything about it.
Meanwhile in the classroom, in-between the occasional attempts at genuine education, the kids are having a metaphorical lobotomy administered.
The bullies, the popular and the stupid are in charge of the classroom (sometimes these are the teachers)...kids who have been brought up to understand right from wrong are sitting cowed in the corners, casually ignored.
Nobody is challenged to think, to really think, to challenge themselves.
If a debate is attempted (a couple of times a year), it is a largely pointless exercise because it is impossible to debate without the background knowledge and the ability to think rationally.
There's no point you see.
A real nihilistic sh*t show organised by people who believe in rights and find the word 'responsibility' to be obsolete.
Without a properly educated populace it all falls apart. [Post edited 12 Jan 2022 22:58]
|
Using an example of communism to describe socialism Is pretty extreme, off the scale.  | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 08:24 - Jan 13 with 743 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 06:51 - Jan 13 by ItchySphincter |
Using an example of communism to describe socialism Is pretty extreme, off the scale. |
If you want an example of socialism then just use Venezuela the country with the Worlds second largest oil reserves cannot feed it owns people . | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 08:55 - Jan 13 with 726 views | jack_lord |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 00:24 - Jan 13 by Ajack_Kerouac |
Great, you obviously have never read Adam Smith, or if you did, you didn't understand his arguments...and you didn't even bother to give me an example of a society run by Socialists which achieved better outcomes. Telling.
...but we agree on the importance of responsibility at least, which is good.
Have you ever been to Asia?
I have, to an ex-communist country.
I witnessed people all skin and bones, begging on the streets. Genuinely hungry people who live in shacks, no mod cons, no electronic luxuries, no beauty products, no nights out.
I don't believe we have a crisis of people in desperate need of food. I trust my own two eyes.
I know of a boy whose father is a drug user (never worked) who lives on his own (the boy's Grandmother subsidises him), whose mother is an ex drug user (only briefly ever had a part time job - doesn't work now). The boy and his mother lives in a council house (nothing wrong with that, I grew up for a time in a council house - a council house where both parents worked and didn't spend their days smashed on drugs and alcohol).
The fridge is full, the boy s given money for fast food every time he goes anywhere, the furniture is purchased for them (the old broken furniture is lobbed in a pile in the garden - for aesthetic purposes I suppose), mum smokes, mum has tatoos, boy has an Xbox, mum goes out and buys him new clothes regular (it's important to look good), for Christmas the boy received more gifts than my son (I don't want to teach my son to be materialistic, he has everything he needs and gets presents that mean something - if he wants something big he has to earn it...this can be through chores or achieving something, if he sets himself a goal and achieves it I reward him)...the biggest present the boy in question received was an electric scooter (£400+), so he doesn't have to break sweat I presume. It was broken within a week.
According to government statistics this family would be at the bottom of our society, I'm sure the mum uses food banks.
I don't feel sorry for this family, except for the boy who is semi-literate and utterly incapable...not his fault that he hasn't been parented.
If anything Capitalism has been too successful, there is that much excess that unproductive people who make terrible choices and literally do nothing with their lives, they just exist and consume, can live perfectly comfortable lives.
If this family knew me better they would perhaps see what myself and my wife have created for our family and be jealous. They might think that it is unfair that they can't have the same, but...
1 - it is fair, we have spent our lives working for it, made decisions that meant we went without for a time in order to get to where we wanted to be.
&
2 - They could have had the same - they had the same opportunities as I did - they rejected those opportunities though in favour of self-indulgence and self-pity...and in fact although they can no longer have the same (missed that boat) they could have more, but they would have to wake up and get a bloody move on.
I can't feel sorry for people who are using food banks when I wonder what the people I met in Asia would make of it all. It's impossible.
Ultimately, if people really care, they need to stop focusing on materialistic shite and instead concentrate on fixing people.
People don't need to be molly-coddled, they don't need pity, nobody is going to have a better life because they have the latest phone/video games console/designer clothes or because they are eating a ready meal from M&S rather than a stir fry made from leftovers (I would rather eat the stir fry. I would rather make the stir fry).
It is spiritual healing our society needs. A return to 'Meaning', a purpose. |
Tour first paragraph is quite insulting and I don't know if that is an ago thing.
Firstly, I don't need to give you an example of Socialists achieving better outcomes because I have even suggested that. I was merely pointing out that you stated what socialists believe and then you countered that with an example saying that they are all slaves which is completely different to your example that they believed that the hard working feed the scroungers. How would you feel if I told you that you obviously hadn't read a book and if you did did you didn't understand the arguments. That is patronising.
Adam Smith lived in a different time and he clearly did not see the industrial revelation coming. His theories were themselves revolutionary though and his arguments were compelling. I wish he were alive now to re-write his book when he sees that people and their natural effort are not so powerful. Once again responsibility and rights. Indeed, I don't think he would believe some of the work that people have to earn what they are then able to consume but these people would be relevant in his thoughts. | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 09:07 - Jan 13 with 714 views | ItchySphincter |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 08:24 - Jan 13 by felixstowe_jack |
If you want an example of socialism then just use Venezuela the country with the Worlds second largest oil reserves cannot feed it owns people . |
…. and?
I’m not making a case for anything but if someone decides to present communism as de facto socialism it is worth mentioning. This kind of extreme description presented as moderate fact is disingenuous.
We live in a capitalist society with socialist values, can you get your head around that?
Forget the whataboutery for once. | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 09:14 - Jan 13 with 699 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 09:07 - Jan 13 by ItchySphincter |
…. and?
I’m not making a case for anything but if someone decides to present communism as de facto socialism it is worth mentioning. This kind of extreme description presented as moderate fact is disingenuous.
We live in a capitalist society with socialist values, can you get your head around that?
Forget the whataboutery for once. |
My point is socialism does not lead to utopia. | |
| |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 09:37 - Jan 13 with 691 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| Fact of the day - Unemployment on 08:55 - Jan 13 by jack_lord |
Tour first paragraph is quite insulting and I don't know if that is an ago thing.
Firstly, I don't need to give you an example of Socialists achieving better outcomes because I have even suggested that. I was merely pointing out that you stated what socialists believe and then you countered that with an example saying that they are all slaves which is completely different to your example that they believed that the hard working feed the scroungers. How would you feel if I told you that you obviously hadn't read a book and if you did did you didn't understand the arguments. That is patronising.
Adam Smith lived in a different time and he clearly did not see the industrial revelation coming. His theories were themselves revolutionary though and his arguments were compelling. I wish he were alive now to re-write his book when he sees that people and their natural effort are not so powerful. Once again responsibility and rights. Indeed, I don't think he would believe some of the work that people have to earn what they are then able to consume but these people would be relevant in his thoughts. |
I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings to point this out, but if I didn't point it out we would not be having an honest conversation, we would be having a pointless conversation...which is most conversations these days, it is why the younger generations are so lost, rudderless.
A world where everybody censors themselves to avoid hurting one another's feelings is a world without dialogue.
If you infer that Capitalism is creating such inequity that it is unconscionable...and defend Socialism, when I criticise it...the onus is on you to back your ideas up with a better alternative to what we have, because what we have is more than any humans have had, more than any pre-industrial revolution humans could have dreamed of.
If Socialism is part of the mix of creating a better world (if they have some useful ideas, worth defending) why then does it always end in poverty, murder, political repression and tyranny?
If you can't explain why that always happens then you need to question whether you truly understand what Socialism is, do some study, and adjust your opinion.
An example of your misunderstanding is the following...
"I was merely pointing out that you stated what socialists believe and then you countered that with an example saying that they are all slaves which is completely different to your example that they believed that the hard working feed the scroungers."
...the argument I actually made was that Socialists con the people to support them by arguing that the hard working owe them everything, then after the revolution comes the people are treated like slaves and the 'Socialists' (who are almost entirely made up of the middle class academics and the children of the middle class academics from the pre-Communist days...not a concidence, the Socialists are made up of people who believe they deserve more than they have due to their perceived higher intellect...they misunderstand that people who have achieved more than them did so by working hard and taking calculated risks, by solving problems that the people needed to be solved and are pretty smart cookies themselves actually) rule like an aristocracy.
Socialism returns us to Feudalism.
Again, you would be able to see that this is not a coincidence if you understand History and the birth of Socialism.
Socialism is a reaction to the birth of the modern world, the industrial revolution.
It is rooted in fear and loathing and disgust.
These emotions permeate through Socialism up to the modern day.
One of Trump's sins was to be an uncouth 'idiot', who didn't understand the etiquette of the elite educated class, who eats burgers...think the character from 'Caddyshack' who upsets everyone at the gentile golf club...and he has the temerity to have much more money than them.
They are disgusted by the idea of Trump.
See it in Swansea with the 'Trade Centre Wales' fella. Swansea's version of an educated elite is disgusted by him and sit in moral judgement.
Socialism cons the people to return to a state of slavery.
Capitalism (I don't even like that word, it is a word invented by Socialists to describe successful, free, people) enshrines the rights of the individual under the law to work as hard as he/she likes and make his/her own decisions in life regarding property, work, assets accumulated.
People are also free not to strive.
Under Capitalism the productive people create enough wealth to look after those who do not strive (because it is in our interests to ensure that the society we live in does not descend into anarchy). Pointless living in a castle if your kids can't go outside. So the successful and ambitious seek to shape the communities they live in (or at least they used to) to make them better.
Under Socialism people are forced to work and still starve while their Socialist aristocracy is forced to concentrate on a war against the people...they have to, to keep the con going.
Adam Smith would look at the facts, he wouldn't be concerned with emotional arguments and he would see his theories justified BIG TIME.
He would be amazed at the comfort people who; don't work, take excessive drink and drugs and engage in destructive behaviour in general...live in. He would be amazed and elated.
"How would you feel if I told you that you obviously hadn't read a book and if you did did you didn't understand the arguments. That is patronising."
I wouldn't care less, I'm a grown up. I know what I've read so if somebody said something about me that wasn't true it would have no effect.
Feelings are of very little importance. It is one of the reasons our society is now failing, the obsessive focus on hurt feelings.
It is child like. | |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
