| David Davis + Boris on 14:31 - Jul 13 with 2989 views | Mytch_QPR |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:27 - Jul 13 by R_from_afar |
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to pay more for stuff just to prove a point!
The Times, as an example, states that if we end up with a hard Brexit which sees us trading under WTO rules, BMWs will cost us 10% more. BMW have also said that that scenario will result in UK customers paying more for its vehicles.
RFA |
Well,
If we do a deal with the US instead then you can have Chevrolet Impalas (or whatever they are called) instead of your BMW or Audi. Nice.
Also, the US do a nice line in chlorinated chicken. Yum. |  |
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| David Davis + Boris on 14:35 - Jul 13 with 2984 views | R_from_afar |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:31 - Jul 13 by Mytch_QPR |
Well,
If we do a deal with the US instead then you can have Chevrolet Impalas (or whatever they are called) instead of your BMW or Audi. Nice.
Also, the US do a nice line in chlorinated chicken. Yum. |
...and cheese made with genetically engineered growth hormones! 
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| David Davis + Boris on 15:03 - Jul 13 with 2936 views | colinallcars |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:35 - Jul 13 by R_from_afar |
...and cheese made with genetically engineered growth hormones!
RFA |
Shoo-fly pie and apple pan dowdy....... |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 15:14 - Jul 13 with 2917 views | Mick_S |
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| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| David Davis + Boris on 19:27 - Jul 13 with 2809 views | nix |
| David Davis + Boris on 13:59 - Jul 13 by PlanetHonneywood |
Thing about the over-64s, they were the generation who voted us in to something that has changed immeasurably since then. 81% of whom voted.
As for the u24s, they were the lowest turn out with only 36% going to the polls.
Just saying... |
Actually that figure of 36% has been shown by more detailed polling to be incorrect and it’s around 64% of young people. Still not as many as older people who have less to gain or lose by a leave vote. Zero people who were 16 then were allowed to vote but a high % would vote remain according to polls and it makes a much greater difference to their lives how the country is shaped over the next 50 years than it does to people like my in laws who have benefited from the EU in many ways but believe everything they read in the Daily Express and think they’re hard done by.
Still I’m sure you’ll get your wish. Sadly TM is too afraid of her own Eurosceptics to allow another vote, And the Boris, Rees Mogg, Gove and Farage bandwagon rolls on. What a group of people to align yourself with btw. |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:05 - Jul 13 with 2763 views | kensalriser |
| David Davis + Boris on 09:04 - Jul 13 by PlanetHonneywood |
These are valid concerns Nix.
But as the Icelandic PM said, 'of course we'll trade with the UK after Brexit'.
The real issue, is to what extent the neo-lib elite both within and outside the EU, want to make an example of the UK? If that's the world we live in, then it's a sorry state of affairs.
I keep reminding myself of how much doom was being mongered when Greece looked like going to the wall. The ramifications of the UK going to the wall would have a far greater effect and thus, if this all goes through and when the dust eventually settles, I think the global economy will just accept that there is no advantage to seeing the 5th biggest economy go to the wall.
The reason no deals are being done yet is, I believe, due to EU rules preventing a departing member from doing so until its actually left.
The UK is the biggest export market for German cars, we buy 14% of what they make - a downturn in demand would have a disastrous affect on Merkel. We buy more goods from them then we sell, and it's our services to the EU that effectively, keeps us afloat - and that is likely to take a hit, but not to the extent that it ruins the UK I would suggest.
Thus, it's not really in the EU's interests to do over the UK for they will be biting their nose off to spite their face. Equally, each remaining member state is going to see a tax rise of something like 1% to make up the deficit of the UK withdrawal. Tax needs trade to generate income.
Remember, it takes the EU decades to do a trade deal and even then, the Walloonians can nearly scupper it. If we can get our act together, we can and should be able to move quicker than the EU ever has or, can.
In summary, the two problems the UK faces are: a totally useless government and collection of MPs on all sides of the house; and the potential for outside financial/neo-lib interests to send a message to the world economies - we hold the power, not you and certainly not the people! |
Come on, you must know better than to trot out that crap about BMW exports to the UK. Here are the actual GDP figures:
EU GDP: $17277 billion
UK GDP: $2622 billion
That's why we're on a hiding to nothing. The UK is one economy against 27. And as you even point out yourself, it's not about goods it's about services, which are 80% of the economy (most WTO tariffs are around 2.5%, which is less than short term currency fluctuation and not likely to stop someone buying a £30k motor).
The UK economy won't 'go to the wall' after Brexit but it will suffer years, perhaps even decades of low or no growth. |  |
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| David Davis + Boris on 20:26 - Jul 13 with 2750 views | QPR_John |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:27 - Jul 13 by R_from_afar |
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to pay more for stuff just to prove a point!
The Times, as an example, states that if we end up with a hard Brexit which sees us trading under WTO rules, BMWs will cost us 10% more. BMW have also said that that scenario will result in UK customers paying more for its vehicles.
RFA |
At the moment BMW can sell their cars here with no tariffs so the price is set by the company. If we do not impose tariffs why will BMW charge more if we leave the EU. Of course we could impose a tariff on the cars but how does BMW know if we will and how much it will be |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:17 - Jul 13 with 2715 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 19:27 - Jul 13 by nix |
Actually that figure of 36% has been shown by more detailed polling to be incorrect and it’s around 64% of young people. Still not as many as older people who have less to gain or lose by a leave vote. Zero people who were 16 then were allowed to vote but a high % would vote remain according to polls and it makes a much greater difference to their lives how the country is shaped over the next 50 years than it does to people like my in laws who have benefited from the EU in many ways but believe everything they read in the Daily Express and think they’re hard done by.
Still I’m sure you’ll get your wish. Sadly TM is too afraid of her own Eurosceptics to allow another vote, And the Boris, Rees Mogg, Gove and Farage bandwagon rolls on. What a group of people to align yourself with btw. |
Much better to align yourself with Blair, Heseltine, Mandelson , Campbell and the issuer of law suits to our NHS.... Branson . None of which you will note answer currently to the electorate .
Huge numbers of older people are grandparents , do you think they voted with complete disregard to their own young family members?
They looked at the tragedy of millions of young people in EU countries who have no job and no future and voted to insulate their own from that misery . Even if they have to fill in an extra form when they go to Ibiza. |  | | |
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| David Davis + Boris on 21:44 - Jul 13 with 2691 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:31 - Jul 13 by Mytch_QPR |
Well,
If we do a deal with the US instead then you can have Chevrolet Impalas (or whatever they are called) instead of your BMW or Audi. Nice.
Also, the US do a nice line in chlorinated chicken. Yum. |
Not saying the chicken sounds great, but our drinking water is chlorinated and we take our babies into a swimming pool treated with chlorine . | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 23:40 - Jul 13 with 2663 views | Jigsore |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:44 - Jul 13 by essextaxiboy |
Not saying the chicken sounds great, but our drinking water is chlorinated and we take our babies into a swimming pool treated with chlorine . |
we are carbon-based lifeforms yet apparently drinking crude oil is bad for you |  |
| “The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.†|
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| David Davis + Boris on 00:26 - Jul 14 with 2630 views | Watford_Ranger |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:17 - Jul 13 by essextaxiboy |
Much better to align yourself with Blair, Heseltine, Mandelson , Campbell and the issuer of law suits to our NHS.... Branson . None of which you will note answer currently to the electorate .
Huge numbers of older people are grandparents , do you think they voted with complete disregard to their own young family members?
They looked at the tragedy of millions of young people in EU countries who have no job and no future and voted to insulate their own from that misery . Even if they have to fill in an extra form when they go to Ibiza. |
Then they’re fking idiots if that’s what they think this has achieved. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 10:53 - Jul 14 with 2514 views | GloryHunter |
| David Davis + Boris on 07:22 - Jul 13 by essextaxiboy |
You are assuming everyone who dies would have voted to leave, you forget that an equal no of people will have moved into that "older" age group to replace them .
I took notice of the high youth unemployment and frustrated ambitions in Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal when I voted . I have 3 boys in their 20s and 30s and hope to have grandchildren whom I thought about .
My objection to another vote isnt that i think Leave will lose but the original was said by everyone leave or remain that it was once in a lifetime choice .
What happens if leave win 55/45 is that enough or we go round again? Or remain win 52/48 and all the arguments get turned around and we go again ? |
Surely the high youth unemployment in the southern countries is because of Eurozone membership, which prevents them devaluing their currency? The UK is still part of the EU and does NOT have high youth unemployment, due to Gordon Brown's foresight in keeping us out of the Eurozone. |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 10:57 - Jul 14 with 2509 views | GloryHunter |
| David Davis + Boris on 07:56 - Jul 13 by essextaxiboy |
You would get some leavers changing to remain because they believe that its just too difficult
But but many more (IMO) remainers changing to leave because their house didnt drop by 18% , their was no immediate shock to the economy , no recession, no emergency budget, Obama was put up to his comments by Cameron , economic forecasts havnt come true , stock markets are up , unemployment at an all time low
Their was a party in the last election who championed remain , they didnt get many votes . [Post edited 13 Jul 2018 7:58]
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"their house didnt drop by 18% , their was no immediate shock to the economy , no recession, no emergency budget"
No, because WE HAVEN'T LEFT YET !!! | | | |
| David Davis on 11:14 - Jul 14 with 2495 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| David Davis on 09:40 - Jul 9 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
May was/is a remainer so she was always going to stitch up the 17M that voted to leave. |
I refer the honorable members to my earlier answer |  |
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| David Davis + Boris on 16:38 - Jul 14 with 2431 views | QPR_John |
| David Davis + Boris on 10:57 - Jul 14 by GloryHunter |
"their house didnt drop by 18% , their was no immediate shock to the economy , no recession, no emergency budget"
No, because WE HAVEN'T LEFT YET !!! |
Cake and eat it time. Those predictions were for what would happen after an exit vote in the referendum | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 19:05 - Jul 14 with 2371 views | GloryHunter |
| David Davis + Boris on 16:38 - Jul 14 by QPR_John |
Cake and eat it time. Those predictions were for what would happen after an exit vote in the referendum |
I don't think so. Although I can understand that expressions at the time such as, " . . . if the UK votes to leave the EU", could be taken to mean the day after the referendum, rather than the day of actually leaving. To me, it seems clear that long-term economic changes will only happen after the actual leaving date - apart from the fall of the pound, which happened immediately after the vote, because exchange rates depend more on predictions than actual economic performance (thank god I changed £1,000 into Euros1,420 in May 2016 - I've still got enough to cover me for this summer's trip. Currently I would get Euros1,130).
Here's a reminder of what George Osborne predicted:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-ho | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 09:26 - Jul 15 with 2299 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 10:57 - Jul 14 by GloryHunter |
"their house didnt drop by 18% , their was no immediate shock to the economy , no recession, no emergency budget"
No, because WE HAVEN'T LEFT YET !!! |
No the predictions were for those things to happen immediately after a vote to leave.
Look em up .. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 10:26 - Jul 15 with 2242 views | QPR_Jim |
| David Davis + Boris on 09:26 - Jul 15 by essextaxiboy |
No the predictions were for those things to happen immediately after a vote to leave.
Look em up .. |
The leave campaign(s) were so unclear as to what they would do and their timeline that predictions were made for various scenarios including triggering article 50 the next day which also didn't happen. |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 10:37 - Jul 15 with 2235 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:05 - Jul 13 by kensalriser |
Come on, you must know better than to trot out that crap about BMW exports to the UK. Here are the actual GDP figures:
EU GDP: $17277 billion
UK GDP: $2622 billion
That's why we're on a hiding to nothing. The UK is one economy against 27. And as you even point out yourself, it's not about goods it's about services, which are 80% of the economy (most WTO tariffs are around 2.5%, which is less than short term currency fluctuation and not likely to stop someone buying a £30k motor).
The UK economy won't 'go to the wall' after Brexit but it will suffer years, perhaps even decades of low or no growth. |
So you don’t think German cars is indicative of an ongoing need/desire/willingness for reciprocal trade. |  |
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| David Davis + Boris on 11:56 - Jul 15 with 2193 views | derbyhoop |
The political mess of the last week or so shows that there is unlikely to be any majority for any sort of Brexit.
The Chequers meeting and the White Paper have angered everybody on both sides of the arguments. Cabinet agreed a position and within days there were a flurry of resignations, by people who disagreed with what had been agreed. "Politics is the art of the possible". The White Paper is a reasonable starting point. Trouble is the EU27 will carefully consider what the UK has proposed. Before blowing a hole in it.
Then, you have the distraction of Trump's visit and his unwelcome and thoughtless intervention.
I really don't know how this will pan out. But, whatever happens I can only foresee a further slow, steady decline (relative to our major competitors) for the UK economy. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| David Davis + Boris on 12:51 - Jul 15 with 2154 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| David Davis + Boris on 11:56 - Jul 15 by derbyhoop |
The political mess of the last week or so shows that there is unlikely to be any majority for any sort of Brexit.
The Chequers meeting and the White Paper have angered everybody on both sides of the arguments. Cabinet agreed a position and within days there were a flurry of resignations, by people who disagreed with what had been agreed. "Politics is the art of the possible". The White Paper is a reasonable starting point. Trouble is the EU27 will carefully consider what the UK has proposed. Before blowing a hole in it.
Then, you have the distraction of Trump's visit and his unwelcome and thoughtless intervention.
I really don't know how this will pan out. But, whatever happens I can only foresee a further slow, steady decline (relative to our major competitors) for the UK economy. |
This seems a sensible summation to me.
The white paper being presented to Merkel before it was presented to the Cabinet is very interesting. It doesn't seem to be a big story in Britain which strikes me as strange, but it's made huge news elsewhere as it reveals collusion and/or progress. It might also explain the over-the-top resignations from those trying to protect their images and careers.
It seems likely now that a deal is close, one that will start with the white paper and then - as a bull is never sold on the first trip to the fair - result in some more forfeitures by May before the ink dries.
Where that leaves us all will remain a mystery for now. This is a colossal and disastrous mess by England and one that will resonate for generations. Lives are at stake here, whether through poverty and health provision or through political uncertainty in Ireland. England badly needs a charismatic and decisive leader. I nominate Neil-SI. |  |
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| David Davis + Boris on 13:09 - Jul 15 with 2146 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 10:26 - Jul 15 by QPR_Jim |
The leave campaign(s) were so unclear as to what they would do and their timeline that predictions were made for various scenarios including triggering article 50 the next day which also didn't happen. |
The leave campaign was just that "a campaign" denied by Cameron of the use of the civil service on day one of the campaign . How could they predict a timeline when they were not in Government ?.
The Remain campaign who were the Government did no preparation at all towards a leave vote. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 13:49 - Jul 15 with 2121 views | Watford_Ranger |
| David Davis + Boris on 13:09 - Jul 15 by essextaxiboy |
The leave campaign was just that "a campaign" denied by Cameron of the use of the civil service on day one of the campaign . How could they predict a timeline when they were not in Government ?.
The Remain campaign who were the Government did no preparation at all towards a leave vote. |
I’d say it was several campaigns all suitably vague to lead voters to believe it meant their preferred type of leaving. Quite genius in hindsight. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:17 - Jul 15 with 2101 views | QPR_John |
The headline
"House prices could fall by 18% if Britain quits EU, says George Osborne"
The body of the article
"House prices could take an 18% hit over the next two years and there will be an “economic shock” that will increase the cost of mortgages if the UK votes to leave the EU, George Osborne has warned.'
Subtle difference
Whoops should have replied to Glory Hunter's post above 19:05 [Post edited 15 Jul 2018 14:22]
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