| Share sale 11:34 - Jun 3 with 66041 views | fitzochris |
I understand the shares owned by Chris Dunphy, Bill Goodwin and Paul Hazelhurst have been sold to a US-based concern.
Keep an eye on Companies House over the coming weeks. |  |
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| Share sale on 09:21 - Jun 5 with 2710 views | tony_roch975 |
| Share sale on 08:28 - Jun 5 by judd |
In the absence of any statement from the club we can but speculate.
As Sandyman says, any change harbours an element of risk, uncertainty and the unknown, but as TalkingSutty also says, the club has openly sought external investment. Unsure if the board has previously turned these guys down for whatever reason, hence the seeming backdoor approach to obtaining a significant shareholding.
With this announcement being led by a resourceful fan and backed up by an approach from the Trust, it is easy to conclude that the purchase of these shares is seen as hostile by the board, given that the new shareholdings will be in the public domain imminently. |
we don't know when or how they acquired the shareholding (the 3 who sold may have made their own approaches) so the hostility of the approach is speculation until the Board issue a statement and we see the new shareholdings. But we do know the Board were abundantly clear that without investment the club isn't viable long term. Looks like their business plan is to attract investors for improvements (along with their 'smarterscout' software) which might lead to the club gaining promotion and thus additional income which provides a potential 'profit' to those investors - doesn't look like they come with a large buy-out budget? It may not be to the liking of the 'purest' fan but it may be a question of beggars ....? |  |
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| Share sale on 09:32 - Jun 5 with 2667 views | nordenblue |
If by their own reckoning "they have now become two of the clubs biggest shareholders" have they bought a lot more than the initially speculated 17%, I've not read every post so apologies if I've missed it... | | | |
| Share sale on 09:34 - Jun 5 with 2662 views | SuddenLad |
| Share sale on 09:20 - Jun 5 by 1907 |
Meat in a pie will be alien to him won’t it? They only do the appley ones over the waters! |
And pumpkin.... |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Share sale on 09:41 - Jun 5 with 2630 views | fitzochris |
| Share sale on 09:18 - Jun 5 by BigDaveMyCock |
You’re not being followed are you? |
It was the heavy breathing down the phone wot done it. Although that may have just been my mum. | |
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| Share sale on 09:44 - Jun 5 with 2616 views | judd |
| Share sale on 09:21 - Jun 5 by tony_roch975 |
we don't know when or how they acquired the shareholding (the 3 who sold may have made their own approaches) so the hostility of the approach is speculation until the Board issue a statement and we see the new shareholdings. But we do know the Board were abundantly clear that without investment the club isn't viable long term. Looks like their business plan is to attract investors for improvements (along with their 'smarterscout' software) which might lead to the club gaining promotion and thus additional income which provides a potential 'profit' to those investors - doesn't look like they come with a large buy-out budget? It may not be to the liking of the 'purest' fan but it may be a question of beggars ....? |
The when and how are both addressed in the statement. |  |
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| Share sale on 09:46 - Jun 5 with 2613 views | AtThePeake |
| Share sale on 08:49 - Jun 5 by isitme |
Thanks for all your work on this. It is really appreciated.
Naturally people are curious, excited and probably worried as for every Abu Dhabi United Group there are probably three Stewart Day's and Munto Finance. |
FWIW as we've seen with the fall-out from the proposed Newcastle takeover, not everyone would be particularly happy with an Abu Dhabi United Group style takeover anymore! |  |
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| Share sale on 09:59 - Jun 5 with 2568 views | isitme |
| Share sale on 09:46 - Jun 5 by AtThePeake |
FWIW as we've seen with the fall-out from the proposed Newcastle takeover, not everyone would be particularly happy with an Abu Dhabi United Group style takeover anymore! |
That is true, although if it led to Newcastle having the same success as City have had in recent seasons I'm sure virtually all their supporters would be happy. |  | | |
| Share sale on 10:10 - Jun 5 with 2536 views | fermin |
I'd be interested to know more about the other guy mentioned, Emre Marcelli. In the statement it says:
'He is a fund manager and credit risk expert. After a lengthy career in commercial and investment banking he opened his own fund in New York. He has significant experience in financial due diligence of lower-division football clubs in Europe. He holds an MBA from Columbia University.'
I have done a short look around about him on the internet. I cannot find that much about him. He appears to have qualified in 2006 and then worked at JP Morgan until 2012:
https://brokercheck.finra.org/individual/summary/5209398
He now works at a company called Lidya as the Chief Revenue Officer which has recently opened in New York and is a USA holding financial institution that provides access to credit and finance across frontier and emerging markets ie it makes loans to small and medium-sized businesses. It is spread across 3 continents and 5 countries which are USA, Portugal, Nigeria, Poland and Czech Republic.
https://www.lidya.co/ng/en/about_us/
If this is the fund mentioned in the statement then he does not appear to have been the founder, though he may have opened the US branch. Lidya was originally a Nigerian company according to this:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tobyshapshak/2019/10/15/nigerian-sme-digital-lender
Perhaps they have lent to Eastern European football clubs and this is what is meant in the statement.
Other than that it looks like he is interested in squash and supports Galatasaray.
His wife, Solita Marcelli, looks to have a much higher profile in the finance industry. She was global head of fixed interest, currencies and commodities at JP Morgan and has just taken over as CIO at UBS.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/solita-marcelli-ubs
https://turkofamerica.com/index.php/others/life-style/item/4198-solita-marcelli-
https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/ubss-long-time-americas-chie
She is also regularly interviewed on US television, for example:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/27/opportunities-arising-in-the-credit-market
Interesting to compare her profile on the same FINRA site as his - she appears to be the one with the lengthy career, but perhaps he has done stuff that does not come up on a FINRA record:
https://brokercheck.finra.org/individual/summary/4252914 |  | | |
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| Share sale on 10:13 - Jun 5 with 2525 views | NorthernDale |
One thing i notice about the statement from them, is the appointment of a sporting director, who role would be to identify and possibly sign players, which as resulted in the past with managers being told that the club have player x, who the manager did not want and being forced to play them. Just look at Oldham who have signed some very poor French players by the sporting director (apparently the brother of the owner) and the result is they are near the bottom of league 2. and even the Oldham fans describe them as rubbish, with many giving up going to the games nowadays.
I am also concerned that instead of operating in a careful measured manner to ensure that any debt is reasonable, that they will spend money in the expectation of a quick financial return and leave us with a massive debt that will jeopardise the future of the Dale. The share purchase as seriously made me worry about the future of the Dale, in that we could be another plaything of a get rich quick scheme developed by people who do not care about the Dale, the debts that we could be saddled with and who may put us in the position of Macclesfield or Bury, in that we can pay our bills on time or at all. | | | |
| Share sale on 10:19 - Jun 5 with 2499 views | jacko_dale |
Seen a number of people speaking highly of Altman on Twitter. Granted they can't comment of how he would run a club, but seems he's well regarded in analytics circles. | | | |
| Share sale on 10:24 - Jun 5 with 2479 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Share sale on 10:10 - Jun 5 by fermin |
I'd be interested to know more about the other guy mentioned, Emre Marcelli. In the statement it says:
'He is a fund manager and credit risk expert. After a lengthy career in commercial and investment banking he opened his own fund in New York. He has significant experience in financial due diligence of lower-division football clubs in Europe. He holds an MBA from Columbia University.'
I have done a short look around about him on the internet. I cannot find that much about him. He appears to have qualified in 2006 and then worked at JP Morgan until 2012:
https://brokercheck.finra.org/individual/summary/5209398
He now works at a company called Lidya as the Chief Revenue Officer which has recently opened in New York and is a USA holding financial institution that provides access to credit and finance across frontier and emerging markets ie it makes loans to small and medium-sized businesses. It is spread across 3 continents and 5 countries which are USA, Portugal, Nigeria, Poland and Czech Republic.
https://www.lidya.co/ng/en/about_us/
If this is the fund mentioned in the statement then he does not appear to have been the founder, though he may have opened the US branch. Lidya was originally a Nigerian company according to this:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tobyshapshak/2019/10/15/nigerian-sme-digital-lender
Perhaps they have lent to Eastern European football clubs and this is what is meant in the statement.
Other than that it looks like he is interested in squash and supports Galatasaray.
His wife, Solita Marcelli, looks to have a much higher profile in the finance industry. She was global head of fixed interest, currencies and commodities at JP Morgan and has just taken over as CIO at UBS.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/solita-marcelli-ubs
https://turkofamerica.com/index.php/others/life-style/item/4198-solita-marcelli-
https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/ubss-long-time-americas-chie
She is also regularly interviewed on US television, for example:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/27/opportunities-arising-in-the-credit-market
Interesting to compare her profile on the same FINRA site as his - she appears to be the one with the lengthy career, but perhaps he has done stuff that does not come up on a FINRA record:
https://brokercheck.finra.org/individual/summary/4252914 |
He’s interested in squash you say.
Orange? | |
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| Share sale on 10:25 - Jun 5 with 2476 views | judd |
| Share sale on 10:24 - Jun 5 by BigDaveMyCock |
He’s interested in squash you say.
Orange? |
No, that's Trump. | |
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| Share sale on 10:27 - Jun 5 with 2467 views | D_Alien |
| Share sale on 09:20 - Jun 5 by 1907 |
Meat in a pie will be alien to him won’t it? They only do the appley ones over the waters! |
'Appen we'll be served meatloaf? Tastes better than alien |  |
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| Share sale on 10:32 - Jun 5 with 2433 views | nordenblue |
| Share sale on 10:24 - Jun 5 by BigDaveMyCock |
He’s interested in squash you say.
Orange? |
Ewwww bloody hell no,its got to be a summer fruit | | | |
| Share sale on 11:09 - Jun 5 with 2348 views | TalkingSutty |
| Share sale on 10:13 - Jun 5 by NorthernDale |
One thing i notice about the statement from them, is the appointment of a sporting director, who role would be to identify and possibly sign players, which as resulted in the past with managers being told that the club have player x, who the manager did not want and being forced to play them. Just look at Oldham who have signed some very poor French players by the sporting director (apparently the brother of the owner) and the result is they are near the bottom of league 2. and even the Oldham fans describe them as rubbish, with many giving up going to the games nowadays.
I am also concerned that instead of operating in a careful measured manner to ensure that any debt is reasonable, that they will spend money in the expectation of a quick financial return and leave us with a massive debt that will jeopardise the future of the Dale. The share purchase as seriously made me worry about the future of the Dale, in that we could be another plaything of a get rich quick scheme developed by people who do not care about the Dale, the debts that we could be saddled with and who may put us in the position of Macclesfield or Bury, in that we can pay our bills on time or at all. |
You could apply all of that to probably every outside investor in a lower league Club. This is a situation that our Chairman and Directors have been actively pursuing, they informed the fans of that months ago. Your concerns are real but there is also a opposite side to the coin, it could work out brilliantly. Then there is the reasoning behind all of this..our CEO and Directors have pointed out that without outside investment the future looks very bleak for the Club. There are no guarantees but the fact Chris Dunphy etc sold their shares to these individuals speaks volumes to me, they would have done due diligence before coming to that decision. |  | | |
| Share sale on 11:19 - Jun 5 with 2315 views | tony_roch975 |
| Share sale on 09:44 - Jun 5 by judd |
The when and how are both addressed in the statement. |
sorry Judd must have missed that, all I've seen is vague references to 'the past year' and 'privately offered' which doesn't say who made the first approach and why those particular holdings - do you know more? | |
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| Share sale on 11:36 - Jun 5 with 2257 views | rochdaleriddler |
I know we all laughed at Bury, and their ultimately fatal liking for Greeks bearing gifts, but what power do us mere fans have in the current situation at Dale?. Sure we can speculate , and voice concerns more than the giggles did, but if our club is taken over by this group, we are absolutely powerless to do anything about it. We can enjoy the ride, still go and moan all the time or stop supporting. |  |
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| Share sale on 11:43 - Jun 5 with 2238 views | 49thseason |
The simple question is "if not this, then what"?
From where we are at the moment, upwards momentum seems a big ask, we have been stuck at the bottom end of League 1 for 3 seasons, we have to sell our best players when hanging on to them longer would be the better option . Crowds are not growing, Money is clearly in short supply, The ongoing saga of a training ground and academy pitches has not been resolved entirely.
Would we prefer to be associated with a wide-boy with a string of business failures with no real financial accumen other than skipping from one failing company to another? Or would we prefer real investment from well qualified people with football and financial expertise and access to proper money? OK, they may not be loaded with money but maybe thats not a bad thing, but we are integral to their real business, not a plaything.
We have never before had an opportunity like this one, a chance to get out of the eternal hand to mouth existance, no more begging for a training pitch here and an academy pitch there, A chance to develop a professional recruitment plan that leads to valuable players capable of taking us upwards rather than the hit and miss of broken toys and loan players.
There may never be a better opportunity, we should grab it with both hands and put our fears and reservations behind us. Marching into the future with a plan feels much better than continually looking over our shoulders watching the abyss creep ever closer. |  | | |
| Share sale on 11:55 - Jun 5 with 2203 views | Shun |
| Share sale on 08:47 - Jun 5 by fitzochris |
Dan has agreed to have a chat with me soon and said he has also received a list of follow-up questions from the Trust, that he intends to answer.
I believe the club will issue a statement today. |
I would echo others’ comments on here and say how appreciative we are of your investigative work on this and other matters. Top work, fitzo. And it does genuinely make me wonder what would’ve happened if Bury had someone like you, judd, RAFCBLUE et al among their fanbase.
Although what does fill me with hope is that there hasn’t been a single element of giddiness from any Dale fan, but instead a lot of scrutiny. Me? I’m quietly and cautiously optimistic. [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 14:22]
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| Share sale on 12:05 - Jun 5 with 2178 views | 442Dale |
| Share sale on 11:36 - Jun 5 by rochdaleriddler |
I know we all laughed at Bury, and their ultimately fatal liking for Greeks bearing gifts, but what power do us mere fans have in the current situation at Dale?. Sure we can speculate , and voice concerns more than the giggles did, but if our club is taken over by this group, we are absolutely powerless to do anything about it. We can enjoy the ride, still go and moan all the time or stop supporting. |
Already we are seeing what can be done. There has been transparency and information made available to all. None of the Forever Bury route of “we know stuff but can’t tell you yet” nonsense as the Trust have given regular updates and informed on next steps agreed with all parties. With that sort of thing in place, it’s easier to monitor closely as all parties know where they stand.
That has all happened in the last 24 hours, and as Shun says, no giddiness. Such scrutiny and interest should be welcomed by all involved for the good of the club. |  |
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| Share sale on 12:18 - Jun 5 with 2125 views | TalkingSutty |
| Share sale on 12:05 - Jun 5 by 442Dale |
Already we are seeing what can be done. There has been transparency and information made available to all. None of the Forever Bury route of “we know stuff but can’t tell you yet” nonsense as the Trust have given regular updates and informed on next steps agreed with all parties. With that sort of thing in place, it’s easier to monitor closely as all parties know where they stand.
That has all happened in the last 24 hours, and as Shun says, no giddiness. Such scrutiny and interest should be welcomed by all involved for the good of the club. |
To be fair if it wasn't for Fitzchris we would be none the wiser today. The Trust have been left completely out of the loop and are acting on information unearthed by a diligent supporter who has already done the work. In all of their recent meetings with the Club they havent been privvy to any of this information which isn't really surprising.
There has been no information from the Club itself and even if there is today it will be because their hand has been forced, it's not out of the goodness of their heart. The fans are treated with contempt and communication from the Club is at best a joke as highlighted with the recent Lotto decision...something else that the Trust should have been fully consulted about. [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 12:21]
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| Share sale on 12:21 - Jun 5 with 2113 views | BartRowou |
| Share sale on 11:43 - Jun 5 by 49thseason |
The simple question is "if not this, then what"?
From where we are at the moment, upwards momentum seems a big ask, we have been stuck at the bottom end of League 1 for 3 seasons, we have to sell our best players when hanging on to them longer would be the better option . Crowds are not growing, Money is clearly in short supply, The ongoing saga of a training ground and academy pitches has not been resolved entirely.
Would we prefer to be associated with a wide-boy with a string of business failures with no real financial accumen other than skipping from one failing company to another? Or would we prefer real investment from well qualified people with football and financial expertise and access to proper money? OK, they may not be loaded with money but maybe thats not a bad thing, but we are integral to their real business, not a plaything.
We have never before had an opportunity like this one, a chance to get out of the eternal hand to mouth existance, no more begging for a training pitch here and an academy pitch there, A chance to develop a professional recruitment plan that leads to valuable players capable of taking us upwards rather than the hit and miss of broken toys and loan players.
There may never be a better opportunity, we should grab it with both hands and put our fears and reservations behind us. Marching into the future with a plan feels much better than continually looking over our shoulders watching the abyss creep ever closer. |
I just want to watch muddy football played by players who give 100% even if there's just 1500 of us and it's non-league. |  |
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| Share sale on 12:30 - Jun 5 with 2067 views | TalkingSutty |
| Share sale on 12:21 - Jun 5 by BartRowou |
I just want to watch muddy football played by players who give 100% even if there's just 1500 of us and it's non-league. |
How depressing..do you not enjoy being a football league club? Each to their own but I want us to constantly try to keep achieving, we've always done that. I thought we'd progressed and what must our young supporters think when they read your post? If it's the worse case scenario then fair enough. [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 12:32]
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| Share sale on 12:30 - Jun 5 with 2065 views | 442Dale |
| Share sale on 12:18 - Jun 5 by TalkingSutty |
To be fair if it wasn't for Fitzchris we would be none the wiser today. The Trust have been left completely out of the loop and are acting on information unearthed by a diligent supporter who has already done the work. In all of their recent meetings with the Club they havent been privvy to any of this information which isn't really surprising.
There has been no information from the Club itself and even if there is today it will be because their hand has been forced, it's not out of the goodness of their heart. The fans are treated with contempt and communication from the Club is at best a joke as highlighted with the recent Lotto decision...something else that the Trust should have been fully consulted about. [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 12:21]
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We cannot change the past, only influence the future. The Trust and everyone is aware of that, and it’s particularly refreshing to see the regular updates so we are all know what’s going on.
Point taken on Fitzo’s part in it all, brilliant work and deserving of all the praise. He’ll probably acknowledge that organisations like the Trust, the club and other fans have a role to play now it’s out there too. | |
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| Share sale on 12:34 - Jun 5 with 2041 views | BigDaveMyCock |
All we can do at the moment is wait and see what information is forthcoming.
The thing I’m interested (I’ll use that word ‘interested’ for the time being but it’s not far from concern) in knowing more about is that there is a massive emphasis on investment providing ‘returns’ for investors. Anybody will tell you that ‘returns’ are very rare in football. How many times have you heard good owners of football clubs repeat the mantra that if you want to make money then don’t buy a football club. Bad owners of football clubs often tell you that there’s opportunities aplenty if only you speculate to accumulate. I would like to know the brass tacks of this investment, what these returns are and the impact it will have on the club’s liabilities. | |
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