| Share sale 11:34 - Jun 3 with 66040 views | fitzochris |
I understand the shares owned by Chris Dunphy, Bill Goodwin and Paul Hazelhurst have been sold to a US-based concern.
Keep an eye on Companies House over the coming weeks. |  |
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| Share sale on 19:30 - Jun 5 with 3072 views | 442Dale |
| Share sale on 19:21 - Jun 5 by 49thseason |
The shares in Rochdale AFC are only worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for them. I think this is a crossroads for the current directors. Their responsibility is to ensure the trading future of Rochdale AFC , they have already admitted they are looking for investment, they have just borrowed money from RMBC to complete pitch renovations, they have no idea when the club might be trading post Corona Virus. So the directors options are limited, either they have to bring in new money by releasing shares or put more money in themselves. If they are not prepared to put money in, it seems foolish to turn away someone who can.
Currently the board own 36.9%, Altman has 14.8%, there are 5 major shareholders with a combined holding of 20.6% and there are 5 shareholders with 5k shares or more accounting for another 5.2%. so some 17 or 18 people currently own about 77.5% of the current shareholding. The rest is owned by people with less than 5k shares. The shares that are unallocated could represent a huge dilution of shares owned by current holders if released, which, were I a shareholder, might entice me to accept a reasonable offer before those extra shares were released.
There must be dozens of people who own shares they have perhaps inherited or bought years ago that would be delighted to accept a decent offer for them as currently there is no market and they are worthless if no one wants to buy them. I think If I owned a couple of thousand and someone offered me say£2 or £3 a share I would be tempted to sell, especially if I thought the buyer might be good for the club. Indeed I might be writing to Altman offering him my shares at this point.
As things stand, it is entirely possible for Altman and Co. with a bit of legwork to get to 51% and have the controlling interest in the company. It would obviously be better if the RAFC Board and the Altman consortium could find a solution that works for everyone, I guess time will tell. |
Interesting post. In that situation it would be down to individuals who hold a minimal of shares to make a decision around whether the money would be worth the potential implications of selling. |  |
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| Share sale on 19:47 - Jun 5 with 2991 views | 442Dale |
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2020/06/qa-with-dan-altman/
Plenty to discuss in there. Including this:
<<“ Q. In your statement, you’ve made public in discussions with the club for some time. How recently was that, and are those talks ongoing?
A. We’ve been in talks on and off for more than a year and remain in contact with the Board.”>> [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 19:49]
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| Share sale on 19:59 - Jun 5 with 2941 views | fitzochris |
| Share sale on 19:47 - Jun 5 by 442Dale |
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2020/06/qa-with-dan-altman/
Plenty to discuss in there. Including this:
<<“ Q. In your statement, you’ve made public in discussions with the club for some time. How recently was that, and are those talks ongoing?
A. We’ve been in talks on and off for more than a year and remain in contact with the Board.”>> [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 19:49]
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And...
Q. Your press release talks of big investment into the club. Would this investment be done through loans to the club or through donations?
A. We proposed purchasing all of the club’s unissued shares, since this would allow us to put money straight into the club. Any additional investment would come as zero-interest loans. | |
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| Share sale on 20:00 - Jun 5 with 2937 views | AtThePeake |
| Share sale on 19:47 - Jun 5 by 442Dale |
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2020/06/qa-with-dan-altman/
Plenty to discuss in there. Including this:
<<“ Q. In your statement, you’ve made public in discussions with the club for some time. How recently was that, and are those talks ongoing?
A. We’ve been in talks on and off for more than a year and remain in contact with the Board.”>> [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 19:49]
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"Any additional investment would come as zero-interest loans."
Don't like that. |  |
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| Share sale on 20:03 - Jun 5 with 2920 views | judd |
| Share sale on 20:00 - Jun 5 by AtThePeake |
"Any additional investment would come as zero-interest loans."
Don't like that. |
Why not?
There must be other terms.to the loans. |  |
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| Share sale on 20:07 - Jun 5 with 2889 views | 442Dale |
| Share sale on 19:59 - Jun 5 by fitzochris |
And...
Q. Your press release talks of big investment into the club. Would this investment be done through loans to the club or through donations?
A. We proposed purchasing all of the club’s unissued shares, since this would allow us to put money straight into the club. Any additional investment would come as zero-interest loans. |
And the club called an EGM on the subject of unissued shares.
Everyone was asking why.
Again, it’s worth reading the details contained within this with the new knowledge we now have:
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2020/march/clubstatement-agmegm/ | |
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| Share sale on 20:10 - Jun 5 with 2861 views | SaxonDale |
Sounds OK to me at the moment- but would obviously need to know more about the terms of the loans- for example the length. Main problem for me is how much would we lend? Do we lend X amount knowing that it'd be relatively easy to pay off IF we got Championship football? Can imagine the investments that they would want to put in would stretch the finances of the club to the max if we didn't achieve promotion and could potentially lead us to a sticky situation. |  | | |
| Share sale on 20:11 - Jun 5 with 2855 views | judd |
So is there another interested party in advanced talks?
Have our friends snapped up a bargain set of shares that could shift for a significant profit? | |
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| Share sale on 20:12 - Jun 5 with 2855 views | fitzochris |
Precisely. | |
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| Share sale on 20:14 - Jun 5 with 2834 views | SaxonDale |
| Share sale on 20:11 - Jun 5 by judd |
So is there another interested party in advanced talks?
Have our friends snapped up a bargain set of shares that could shift for a significant profit? |
Good question | | | |
| Share sale on 20:37 - Jun 5 with 2760 views | AtThePeake |
| Share sale on 20:03 - Jun 5 by judd |
Why not?
There must be other terms.to the loans. |
Like SaxonDale, I wonder what those terms are. What are they secured against? | |
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| Share sale on 20:41 - Jun 5 with 2738 views | judd |
| Share sale on 20:37 - Jun 5 by AtThePeake |
Like SaxonDale, I wonder what those terms are. What are they secured against? |
Any worries about the recent initial loan at commercial rates from RMBC secured against the assets of the stadium repayable over 12 months at a time when we dont know where our next £1 is coming from? | |
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| Share sale on 20:43 - Jun 5 with 2730 views | AtThePeake |
| Share sale on 20:41 - Jun 5 by judd |
Any worries about the recent initial loan at commercial rates from RMBC secured against the assets of the stadium repayable over 12 months at a time when we dont know where our next £1 is coming from? |
Yes. | |
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| Share sale on 20:48 - Jun 5 with 2699 views | judd |
Good | |
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| Share sale on 20:56 - Jun 5 with 2674 views | tony_roch975 |
I thought that was being repaid from a contracted transfer add-on for Craig Dawson's sale from West Brom to Watford - in which case we do know where the next £1 is coming from? |  |
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| Share sale on 21:09 - Jun 5 with 2633 views | judd |
| Share sale on 20:56 - Jun 5 by tony_roch975 |
I thought that was being repaid from a contracted transfer add-on for Craig Dawson's sale from West Brom to Watford - in which case we do know where the next £1 is coming from? |
Not necessarily. It is from future transfer earnings. Who is to say there won't be a problem getting the Dawson money on schedule? | |
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| Share sale on 21:56 - Jun 5 with 2533 views | 49thseason |
| Share sale on 21:09 - Jun 5 by judd |
Not necessarily. It is from future transfer earnings. Who is to say there won't be a problem getting the Dawson money on schedule? |
Might have been better to factor this invoice. Better to lose a few percent and get the money now than wait and risk not getting it I would have thought |  | | |
| Share sale on 22:17 - Jun 5 with 2475 views | judd |
| Share sale on 21:56 - Jun 5 by 49thseason |
Might have been better to factor this invoice. Better to lose a few percent and get the money now than wait and risk not getting it I would have thought |
Who would take.on the risk of a football related debt if not for a significant cost? | |
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| Share sale on 06:26 - Jun 6 with 2230 views | BartRowou |
Need to get my head round this.
Let's say there were 10 shares in the club.
If one person has 6 shares, they have over half and can make decisions by themselves.
Chris Dunphy sold his 3 of the 10 shares to the Americans.
So they need 3 more to have control of the club (6 being over half).
The club then issues 10 more shares (the EGM scenario)
Now the 3 shares the Americans have aren't as important because 3 out of 20 is not as near to over half as 3 out of 10 is.
Is this how it works? |  |
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| Share sale on 06:38 - Jun 6 with 2222 views | James1980 |
If their system gets Rochdale into the second tier for the first time in our history. Would that not make it a very marketable product? | |
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| Share sale on 09:13 - Jun 6 with 2090 views | VivaDonaldo |
| Share sale on 06:26 - Jun 6 by BartRowou |
Need to get my head round this.
Let's say there were 10 shares in the club.
If one person has 6 shares, they have over half and can make decisions by themselves.
Chris Dunphy sold his 3 of the 10 shares to the Americans.
So they need 3 more to have control of the club (6 being over half).
The club then issues 10 more shares (the EGM scenario)
Now the 3 shares the Americans have aren't as important because 3 out of 20 is not as near to over half as 3 out of 10 is.
Is this how it works? |
Or I suppose you could see it as, if you want to take a controlling interest in the club your money can buy shares where it goes directly into the club rather than to a private shareholders pockets.
It also probably reads as, we want investment but dint want to lose our board position or element of influence we have.
As I said previously, i think this now pushes this argument front and centre and an interesting new dynamic develops where it seems that Altman has already gone on the charm offensive via the trust.
I'd love Chris Dunphy to comment to get his perspective, but I imagine he'll stay quiet for now. Could you speak to him Fitzo, see if he's willing to comment publicly? | | | |
| Share sale on 09:45 - Jun 6 with 2035 views | electricblue |
I wonder if the Altman and co wanted to purchase those extra shares allong with the ones they actually bought.
The board may have thought that selling the shares would lead to Altman having the controling majority..
Plus the unsold 300,000 maybe unisdued just incase Dale required some finance, but rightly as people as said the shares only have a value to the purchaser...
Is Altman thinking of a major pushing over the nect vouple of seasons to the holy grail of the Championship and its monitary value!
This could will and truly blow up in their faces and saddle Rochdale with huge debts that the club may never come to terms with......
More clarity is required for all and that includes us supporters.....
I fear a Bury scenario in 5yrs or maybe less.... [Post edited 6 Jun 2020 12:07]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Share sale on 10:45 - Jun 6 with 1937 views | ncfc_chalky |
| Share sale on 06:26 - Jun 6 by BartRowou |
Need to get my head round this.
Let's say there were 10 shares in the club.
If one person has 6 shares, they have over half and can make decisions by themselves.
Chris Dunphy sold his 3 of the 10 shares to the Americans.
So they need 3 more to have control of the club (6 being over half).
The club then issues 10 more shares (the EGM scenario)
Now the 3 shares the Americans have aren't as important because 3 out of 20 is not as near to over half as 3 out of 10 is.
Is this how it works? |
If Barts scenario is right would it be legal?
How many shares can you have in a company?
If I bought three shares at a £1 a share and Dale released ten more my investment would automatically be devalued wouldn't it? [Post edited 6 Jun 2020 10:49]
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| Share sale on 11:12 - Jun 6 with 1875 views | NorthernDale |
I agree in that some clarity needs to presented to the fans, but as many fans have indicated we fear for the future of the club. I suspect Altman are not football fans, but speculators or to use the term somebody else used carpetbaggers out for a quick buck.
Bury when under the ownership of Steward Day took out loans and left the club bankrupt, because the debt far exceeded their ability to pay it back. The new owners could use the potential loans to speculate at no cost to themselves on Rochdale future, if they succeed and get us promoted they benefit, but if the don't , they can walk and leave Rochdale holding the debt. That is what happened at Bury they speculated on going up with loans and spending money on wages they did not have, but got relegated instead and the rest is history.
Some fans seem excited about the potential of us having the money to fight for promotion to the championship, and the same fans no doubt mocked Bury fans have showing the same behaviour and giddiness. Please look at other clubs who have speculated on promotion and failed, I want success, but success that is achievable without putting the future of the Dale at risk. | | | |
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