| How much is the club worth/valued at now? 20:35 - Feb 2 with 12033 views | builthjack |
£30 million?
More?
Less? |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:36 - Feb 10 with 714 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:27 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The Trust said this in the last AGM/ Brackets { }
{Legal action is always a last resort and is only happening now due to the inability to agree a
solution to the issues that have arisen from the 2016 sale. We should remember two things, a) we had agreed a deal in 2017 that would have resolved the issue, however the majority owners walked away from that agreement and b) as a result of the 2016 sale, our shareholding is not sufficiently protected in the current structure of the club, so the status quo is not tenable in our eyes. We remain very open to a negotiated settlement and one of the aims of the Trust is always to retain a shareholding in our club, however that requires both parties to agree. We do agree that if this goes to court, the likely award from a successful verdict would be the full purchase of the Trust’s shares.}
What does this mean ?
{ b) as a result of the 2016 sale, our shareholding is not sufficiently protected in the current structure of the club, so the status quo is not tenable in our eyes.}
Dr P says they want 25.1% shares to give them a veto. They cannot afford it. (+£1.3m) That is life. What happen when there is investment (£13m) ? They still hold 25.1%? (+£3.24m) Perhaps they just want a veto and do not care about dilution?? If they have a veto they can block investment and dilution. Completely unreasonable as far as i can see. |
I didn’t say that’s what they want. You asked me how someone can get protection from dilution and examples where this is the case.
That the answer, not my answer, but THE answer.
I’m sure the Trust would like 25.1%, but that isn’t the answer I gave.
If they are awarded the £21m and then buy back in for 25.1% for a fraction of that, they will have the option to invest also if they think it’s a good idea or veto.
Investment of course is not always a good idea, as I just mentioned with Cardiff. |  |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:38 - Feb 10 with 704 views | majorraglan |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:47 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1 |
No have not had answers. How do the Trust protect themselves from devaluation by inflation?. The answer seems to be they do not. I have suggested using a consultant to find out for sure.
The Trust can make money and grow in the club so why go to court to get the money out to not grow? The moment the cash in they start losing. |
You’re not a member, if you’re so concerned at your £10 and go to the next meet8bg here you can air your concerns in the right place. |  | | |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:40 - Feb 10 with 692 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:32 - Feb 10 by Chief |
It means exactly what it says. With the trust on 21% and the club now being owned by 1 other big block because the sellouts still involved sold out their voting rights, the trust have no say in whether dilution gets sanctioned. Is that particularly difficult to understand?
Yes the trust are fully aware that getting to 25% isn't going to happen. That's why they've chosen to pursue the option of potentially selling their shares instead. Is that particularly difficult to understand? |
From what I understand they may have been wanting a GOLDEN SHARE. An automatic 25.1%. This may not be legal.
{The British government's golden share in BAA, the UK airports authority, was ruled illegal by European courts in 2003, when it was deemed contradictory to the principle of free circulation of capital within the European Union.} UK may still be affected by EU courts.
I support a sale as long as it by agreement. A forced sale is bad d for everyone. [Post edited 10 Feb 2022 23:42]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:42 - Feb 10 with 680 views | Chief |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:38 - Feb 10 by majorraglan |
You’re not a member, if you’re so concerned at your £10 and go to the next meet8bg here you can air your concerns in the right place. |
For someone who dislikes the trust so much it's utterly perverse why they are so concerned with the trust's own finances.
By their own logic they shouldn't care. But they obviously do, a lot.
Or they think it's a stick to beat the trust with, although they won't reply to feedback or field questions when their comments on the trust's investment prospects are challenged.
Things like this make it abundantly clear that there's some sort of vested agenda at play here. |  |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:45 - Feb 10 with 667 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:40 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1 |
From what I understand they may have been wanting a GOLDEN SHARE. An automatic 25.1%. This may not be legal.
{The British government's golden share in BAA, the UK airports authority, was ruled illegal by European courts in 2003, when it was deemed contradictory to the principle of free circulation of capital within the European Union.} UK may still be affected by EU courts.
I support a sale as long as it by agreement. A forced sale is bad d for everyone. [Post edited 10 Feb 2022 23:42]
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Bad for Levien and co.
Not bad for everyone. | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:49 - Feb 10 with 661 views | Chief |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:40 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1 |
From what I understand they may have been wanting a GOLDEN SHARE. An automatic 25.1%. This may not be legal.
{The British government's golden share in BAA, the UK airports authority, was ruled illegal by European courts in 2003, when it was deemed contradictory to the principle of free circulation of capital within the European Union.} UK may still be affected by EU courts.
I support a sale as long as it by agreement. A forced sale is bad d for everyone. [Post edited 10 Feb 2022 23:42]
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How is wanting 25.1% illegal!?
But it's not happening anyway. So pointless endlessly droning on about it.
I thought the club was going to get promoted and get sold for Burnley money? That's great news for the Americans and their increased share holding is it not? [Post edited 10 Feb 2022 23:50]
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:54 - Feb 10 with 656 views | majorraglan |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:40 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1 |
From what I understand they may have been wanting a GOLDEN SHARE. An automatic 25.1%. This may not be legal.
{The British government's golden share in BAA, the UK airports authority, was ruled illegal by European courts in 2003, when it was deemed contradictory to the principle of free circulation of capital within the European Union.} UK may still be affected by EU courts.
I support a sale as long as it by agreement. A forced sale is bad d for everyone. [Post edited 10 Feb 2022 23:42]
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A Golden Share as per the BAA case is different to having 25.1% of the shares. Check it out. Having 25.1% of the shares affords the Trust certain protections.
If it were me, I’d rather have £21m or whatever it is stashed for that rainy day whether it’s forced or not. | | | |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 00:09 - Feb 11 with 648 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:54 - Feb 10 by majorraglan |
A Golden Share as per the BAA case is different to having 25.1% of the shares. Check it out. Having 25.1% of the shares affords the Trust certain protections.
If it were me, I’d rather have £21m or whatever it is stashed for that rainy day whether it’s forced or not. |
21% holding is far too big for the Trust and always was. "Certain protections" means the ability to block investment and stop dilution. (bad for the club) Fans generally want investment. Huw Jenkins did not need it.
5% is about right they can match fund at that level. This should have always been the strategy from 2014.
£21m is not credible as it is before very high costs at least £5m probably more. Then there is court costs and possibly tax.
No point having it if is t is not protected against inflation. Once out of the club they are not coming back. At 5% inflation it declines in value by 40% over 10 years. After 10 years no one will be interested in the Swansea supporters Trust, Their current value now is £8m and growing. In 20232 it will have an inflation affected value of £8m and falling.
The BAA golden share was 50.1%. Same principle mostly applied by Governments. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 00:39 - Feb 11 with 628 views | majorraglan |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 00:09 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
21% holding is far too big for the Trust and always was. "Certain protections" means the ability to block investment and stop dilution. (bad for the club) Fans generally want investment. Huw Jenkins did not need it.
5% is about right they can match fund at that level. This should have always been the strategy from 2014.
£21m is not credible as it is before very high costs at least £5m probably more. Then there is court costs and possibly tax.
No point having it if is t is not protected against inflation. Once out of the club they are not coming back. At 5% inflation it declines in value by 40% over 10 years. After 10 years no one will be interested in the Swansea supporters Trust, Their current value now is £8m and growing. In 20232 it will have an inflation affected value of £8m and falling.
The BAA golden share was 50.1%. Same principle mostly applied by Governments. |
Who says 21% is too big or not credible? Not heard that from anyone other than you.
If they ( the Trust) win their case, they could have £21m which could be enough to see them become the major shareholder at some stage in the future , especially if the club drops down a Division or 2 or someone has to sell their shares to pay up and also foot the legal bill.
The Golden Share in BAA was not 50.1% of the shares, what are you talking about? It only relates to voting rights. After the Court ruling against the Government they (HMG) sold the Golden Share for £1. Can5 see the government selling off half of BAA for a quid. [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 0:43]
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 00:43 - Feb 11 with 617 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 00:09 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
21% holding is far too big for the Trust and always was. "Certain protections" means the ability to block investment and stop dilution. (bad for the club) Fans generally want investment. Huw Jenkins did not need it.
5% is about right they can match fund at that level. This should have always been the strategy from 2014.
£21m is not credible as it is before very high costs at least £5m probably more. Then there is court costs and possibly tax.
No point having it if is t is not protected against inflation. Once out of the club they are not coming back. At 5% inflation it declines in value by 40% over 10 years. After 10 years no one will be interested in the Swansea supporters Trust, Their current value now is £8m and growing. In 20232 it will have an inflation affected value of £8m and falling.
The BAA golden share was 50.1%. Same principle mostly applied by Governments. |
Blocking investment and potential debt is not bad for the club.
I ask again, how much did the old owners invest when they ran the club.
To the nearest thousand will do.
You said a club cannot grow without investment. Considering the huge growth we undertook from League 2 to 8th in the Premier League, I can only assume the investment must have been extensive.
What was the total figure between them all, through the whole lifespan of the ownership, AFTER acquiring the club?
I will await the answer. Thanks. | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 01:14 - Feb 11 with 587 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 00:43 - Feb 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
Blocking investment and potential debt is not bad for the club.
I ask again, how much did the old owners invest when they ran the club.
To the nearest thousand will do.
You said a club cannot grow without investment. Considering the huge growth we undertook from League 2 to 8th in the Premier League, I can only assume the investment must have been extensive.
What was the total figure between them all, through the whole lifespan of the ownership, AFTER acquiring the club?
I will await the answer. Thanks. |
There was no investment in the club after 2002. The club was run on loans off the current account. It was successful because of the influence of Jenkins and Morgan not because of Trust board member with respect.
This is common knowledge. It was in my opinion and exceptional case unlikely to be repeated.
However we have things today like Covid leaving a £13m black hole filled by the Convertible loan note. This will be invested to buy Piroe Downes Patterson and Ntcham and general maintenance for the stadium. It is good for Swansea as its the dilution of the Trust.
The club with the Trust having excessive control will not find partners especially in light of a litigious Trust. Wrexham Trust discovered they have no friends to partner with as an example. The Swansea Trust with a wretched investment record will be unable to make money on the markets. It would become Exeter city or even worse Wrexham. The next Huw Jenkins will not dance to the tune of the local school teacher telling him what he can and cannot do. Jenkins and Morgan called the shots. No one in the Trust could go even close to hem.
Wrexham Trust full of hope and optimisms simply stagnated and weary of the grind simply gave up and handed over the keys. Exeter city with 3000 members cough up £30 each and tick over. No great ambition. Not for sale, A nice quaint club going nowhere. This is not want I want.
The best young kids will head straight for Legoland with out a thought. It is a nightmare vision for low expectation 'know you place' Welshmen and women and Stuart James to wallow in the warm of community ownership.
If the US people invest £50m in Swansea and expand the stadium and the Trust are diluted to 5% who cares. I do not. They are not fit for the purpose of being a 'safety net'. They may have the net but it will be 3 inches of the ground. With no investment ability they will stagnate and be shunned by business partners. Local business will save Swansea not the Trust. The Trust have been bad for the club. The owners will not make the same mistake twice. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 01:19 - Feb 11 with 581 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 01:14 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
There was no investment in the club after 2002. The club was run on loans off the current account. It was successful because of the influence of Jenkins and Morgan not because of Trust board member with respect.
This is common knowledge. It was in my opinion and exceptional case unlikely to be repeated.
However we have things today like Covid leaving a £13m black hole filled by the Convertible loan note. This will be invested to buy Piroe Downes Patterson and Ntcham and general maintenance for the stadium. It is good for Swansea as its the dilution of the Trust.
The club with the Trust having excessive control will not find partners especially in light of a litigious Trust. Wrexham Trust discovered they have no friends to partner with as an example. The Swansea Trust with a wretched investment record will be unable to make money on the markets. It would become Exeter city or even worse Wrexham. The next Huw Jenkins will not dance to the tune of the local school teacher telling him what he can and cannot do. Jenkins and Morgan called the shots. No one in the Trust could go even close to hem.
Wrexham Trust full of hope and optimisms simply stagnated and weary of the grind simply gave up and handed over the keys. Exeter city with 3000 members cough up £30 each and tick over. No great ambition. Not for sale, A nice quaint club going nowhere. This is not want I want.
The best young kids will head straight for Legoland with out a thought. It is a nightmare vision for low expectation 'know you place' Welshmen and women and Stuart James to wallow in the warm of community ownership.
If the US people invest £50m in Swansea and expand the stadium and the Trust are diluted to 5% who cares. I do not. They are not fit for the purpose of being a 'safety net'. They may have the net but it will be 3 inches of the ground. With no investment ability they will stagnate and be shunned by business partners. Local business will save Swansea not the Trust. The Trust have been bad for the club. The owners will not make the same mistake twice. |
Ok so when you said, ''a club needs investment to grow''... it was not true then? It isn't even true for the specific club we are talking about, we spent what the club earned and could afford and went from League 2 to 8th in the Premier League.
That is the preferred method. I and other sensible fans don't want ''investment'', we want sustainability. Promises of debt conversion are just that, promises. Promises of that nature are continually broken in football, I gave you one such example with the Langston loan note.
Why on earth would you want to expand the stadium? It's an awful idea. | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 06:48 - Feb 11 with 537 views | 3swan |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 00:09 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
21% holding is far too big for the Trust and always was. "Certain protections" means the ability to block investment and stop dilution. (bad for the club) Fans generally want investment. Huw Jenkins did not need it.
5% is about right they can match fund at that level. This should have always been the strategy from 2014.
£21m is not credible as it is before very high costs at least £5m probably more. Then there is court costs and possibly tax.
No point having it if is t is not protected against inflation. Once out of the club they are not coming back. At 5% inflation it declines in value by 40% over 10 years. After 10 years no one will be interested in the Swansea supporters Trust, Their current value now is £8m and growing. In 20232 it will have an inflation affected value of £8m and falling.
The BAA golden share was 50.1%. Same principle mostly applied by Governments. |
You've posted that the Trust value is £8m and growing.
At the point of sale the accepted value was approx £21m and now worth £8m
At the point of sale the club revenue was over £100m and now down to approx a 1/5 of that.
There is also the potential of a loan being converted to new shares, wouldn't this lessen the value of Trust.
There are currently no dividend payments, so where is the growth? | | | |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 06:55 - Feb 11 with 529 views | Chief |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 00:09 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
21% holding is far too big for the Trust and always was. "Certain protections" means the ability to block investment and stop dilution. (bad for the club) Fans generally want investment. Huw Jenkins did not need it.
5% is about right they can match fund at that level. This should have always been the strategy from 2014.
£21m is not credible as it is before very high costs at least £5m probably more. Then there is court costs and possibly tax.
No point having it if is t is not protected against inflation. Once out of the club they are not coming back. At 5% inflation it declines in value by 40% over 10 years. After 10 years no one will be interested in the Swansea supporters Trust, Their current value now is £8m and growing. In 20232 it will have an inflation affected value of £8m and falling.
The BAA golden share was 50.1%. Same principle mostly applied by Governments. |
- it's not too big - the club went from its lowest ebb to the highest of highs with the trust having a large holding of around 21%. And anyway the trust are potentially looking to sell, so they won't then have that percentage.
- the trust don't have the ability to stop dilution at present so I don't know why you're going on about. Blaming them for a scenario that doesn't actually exist 
- The trust don't have any bids for 16% of their shares to get to 5% so how would they get to that amount. This is getting like jackanory again.
- £21mill is the amount they'd be sold for so it is credible. You're ignoring that the losers could pay court costs&there could be damages coming from the sellouts who are also in court.
- the trust can do things with their potential £21mill (and with no court case to fight) that they couldn't with 800k that can protect them against inflation. Can you not grasp this?
- then it's of no relevance because the trust only have 21%. Nothing to do with a golden share applies. | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 07:08 - Feb 11 with 520 views | Chief |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 01:14 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
There was no investment in the club after 2002. The club was run on loans off the current account. It was successful because of the influence of Jenkins and Morgan not because of Trust board member with respect.
This is common knowledge. It was in my opinion and exceptional case unlikely to be repeated.
However we have things today like Covid leaving a £13m black hole filled by the Convertible loan note. This will be invested to buy Piroe Downes Patterson and Ntcham and general maintenance for the stadium. It is good for Swansea as its the dilution of the Trust.
The club with the Trust having excessive control will not find partners especially in light of a litigious Trust. Wrexham Trust discovered they have no friends to partner with as an example. The Swansea Trust with a wretched investment record will be unable to make money on the markets. It would become Exeter city or even worse Wrexham. The next Huw Jenkins will not dance to the tune of the local school teacher telling him what he can and cannot do. Jenkins and Morgan called the shots. No one in the Trust could go even close to hem.
Wrexham Trust full of hope and optimisms simply stagnated and weary of the grind simply gave up and handed over the keys. Exeter city with 3000 members cough up £30 each and tick over. No great ambition. Not for sale, A nice quaint club going nowhere. This is not want I want.
The best young kids will head straight for Legoland with out a thought. It is a nightmare vision for low expectation 'know you place' Welshmen and women and Stuart James to wallow in the warm of community ownership.
If the US people invest £50m in Swansea and expand the stadium and the Trust are diluted to 5% who cares. I do not. They are not fit for the purpose of being a 'safety net'. They may have the net but it will be 3 inches of the ground. With no investment ability they will stagnate and be shunned by business partners. Local business will save Swansea not the Trust. The Trust have been bad for the club. The owners will not make the same mistake twice. |
Haha unbelievable. The ReSlOvEn CyClE - a monologue rehash of all the old tropes in this one. You're like a bot.
- correct no investment when we got to the best the club have ever been. Are the Americans not capable of running the club successfully within its means?
- so did covid leave a £13mill black hole or did the want to recruit more players leave a £13mill black hole?
- the Americans are litigious, they found Silverstein. The trust can make money.
- what is your actual point with comparison to Exeter and Wrexham then? Do you have one? Or just more insane ramblings because I see now parallels.
- haha this is a good one - the trust are going to be to blame for the best youth players joining Cardiff instead. Haha you've surpassed yourself with that one.
- well that hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen. They've loaned £13mill and aren't in a rush to convert that so the notion that they're going to invest another £40mill is another of your pointless scenerios.
- the trust are not fit for purpose - a buzzword phrase that you are incapable of backing up when asked. The fact we are having his conversation at all suggests they certainly are.
- *the trust have been bad for the club" haha that's quite the claim. Care to say how? Or are you just making things up again? | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 13:08 - Feb 11 with 454 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 06:48 - Feb 11 by 3swan |
You've posted that the Trust value is £8m and growing.
At the point of sale the accepted value was approx £21m and now worth £8m
At the point of sale the club revenue was over £100m and now down to approx a 1/5 of that.
There is also the potential of a loan being converted to new shares, wouldn't this lessen the value of Trust.
There are currently no dividend payments, so where is the growth? |
Growth is in the value of the playing staff and in general inflation . Swansea buy younger players with potential and selling value. Ayew had no value because his wages were too high. Now Fulton is of no value because his wages are too high.
Valuing Championship teams in not easy but Premier league valuations are rising and rising fast New Arab money. Burnley going for £200m was a big eye opener (for switched on people). Twice as much as Swansea 5 years earlier. (inflation). I consider over all that current problem not withstanding Swansea is more likely to go up than down. The club is generally well run and keep the books straight.
Forums are occupied by activists and Trust members. They seem to have very little knowledge of basic facts about their organisation. Such how much the court case would cost?, what they would receive? , what happens if they lose? how they would invest the money? etc. People who ask question and want answers a "have an agenda".
For fans who are not member of the Trust the convertible loan note is great news. Investment at last if it is converted. The Trust will be diluted to perhaps 15% ownership. It is not good news for people who have lost their wallet.
Why should fans care?. What difference does it make? Actually no difference. Does it affect the trust's valuation? No it does not. The trust were worth a notional £8m before and £8m after. If they was no investment cracks would appear. No signings ,the pitch would not be relayed and the steel work would continue to rust.
The 'great saviours' of the club cannot deliver. When Covid struck they had no money to help. They have been invested in a 'Super high risk' stock since promotion. They needed to sell any time after Laudrup. They stated they would "never sell" and wanted protection against dilution. (They had no intention of investing). " A golden share" as I understand it. Relegation co aught them out. They acted "too late". They are always "too late". They work at a snails pace with no urgency. Being left behind should be no surprise to anyone. Did member think it would be 6 years since the sale and no court case?
In effect they wanted special privileges the "Princess Margaret" option. Let everyone else do the work and just turn up every two weeks in the VIP lounge. 25.1% holding no cash. They man that goes on a pub crawl and forgets his wallet. A classic "entitled" south Wales loser mentality. They want a veto. You must be joking. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 13:10 - Feb 11 with 451 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 13:08 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Growth is in the value of the playing staff and in general inflation . Swansea buy younger players with potential and selling value. Ayew had no value because his wages were too high. Now Fulton is of no value because his wages are too high.
Valuing Championship teams in not easy but Premier league valuations are rising and rising fast New Arab money. Burnley going for £200m was a big eye opener (for switched on people). Twice as much as Swansea 5 years earlier. (inflation). I consider over all that current problem not withstanding Swansea is more likely to go up than down. The club is generally well run and keep the books straight.
Forums are occupied by activists and Trust members. They seem to have very little knowledge of basic facts about their organisation. Such how much the court case would cost?, what they would receive? , what happens if they lose? how they would invest the money? etc. People who ask question and want answers a "have an agenda".
For fans who are not member of the Trust the convertible loan note is great news. Investment at last if it is converted. The Trust will be diluted to perhaps 15% ownership. It is not good news for people who have lost their wallet.
Why should fans care?. What difference does it make? Actually no difference. Does it affect the trust's valuation? No it does not. The trust were worth a notional £8m before and £8m after. If they was no investment cracks would appear. No signings ,the pitch would not be relayed and the steel work would continue to rust.
The 'great saviours' of the club cannot deliver. When Covid struck they had no money to help. They have been invested in a 'Super high risk' stock since promotion. They needed to sell any time after Laudrup. They stated they would "never sell" and wanted protection against dilution. (They had no intention of investing). " A golden share" as I understand it. Relegation co aught them out. They acted "too late". They are always "too late". They work at a snails pace with no urgency. Being left behind should be no surprise to anyone. Did member think it would be 6 years since the sale and no court case?
In effect they wanted special privileges the "Princess Margaret" option. Let everyone else do the work and just turn up every two weeks in the VIP lounge. 25.1% holding no cash. They man that goes on a pub crawl and forgets his wallet. A classic "entitled" south Wales loser mentality. They want a veto. You must be joking. |
The old owners had 80% of the club and no cash. Pretty similar. | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 14:25 - Feb 11 with 440 views | Chief |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 13:08 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Growth is in the value of the playing staff and in general inflation . Swansea buy younger players with potential and selling value. Ayew had no value because his wages were too high. Now Fulton is of no value because his wages are too high.
Valuing Championship teams in not easy but Premier league valuations are rising and rising fast New Arab money. Burnley going for £200m was a big eye opener (for switched on people). Twice as much as Swansea 5 years earlier. (inflation). I consider over all that current problem not withstanding Swansea is more likely to go up than down. The club is generally well run and keep the books straight.
Forums are occupied by activists and Trust members. They seem to have very little knowledge of basic facts about their organisation. Such how much the court case would cost?, what they would receive? , what happens if they lose? how they would invest the money? etc. People who ask question and want answers a "have an agenda".
For fans who are not member of the Trust the convertible loan note is great news. Investment at last if it is converted. The Trust will be diluted to perhaps 15% ownership. It is not good news for people who have lost their wallet.
Why should fans care?. What difference does it make? Actually no difference. Does it affect the trust's valuation? No it does not. The trust were worth a notional £8m before and £8m after. If they was no investment cracks would appear. No signings ,the pitch would not be relayed and the steel work would continue to rust.
The 'great saviours' of the club cannot deliver. When Covid struck they had no money to help. They have been invested in a 'Super high risk' stock since promotion. They needed to sell any time after Laudrup. They stated they would "never sell" and wanted protection against dilution. (They had no intention of investing). " A golden share" as I understand it. Relegation co aught them out. They acted "too late". They are always "too late". They work at a snails pace with no urgency. Being left behind should be no surprise to anyone. Did member think it would be 6 years since the sale and no court case?
In effect they wanted special privileges the "Princess Margaret" option. Let everyone else do the work and just turn up every two weeks in the VIP lounge. 25.1% holding no cash. They man that goes on a pub crawl and forgets his wallet. A classic "entitled" south Wales loser mentality. They want a veto. You must be joking. |
****Ding, ding, ding****
- WE HAVE A BURNLEY REFERENCE. Are you saying the Americans aren't switched on then? Surely if they'd noticed the Burnley opportunity they should jump at the chance of acquiring more shares?
- Oh ye the trust should announce publically how much money they have to fight the case. My goodness you really don't think these things through do you? The throw cachu against the wall and hope some sticks tactic. Do you know how much the Americans are paying for their representation?
- You're living in Dreamland if you think the trust would get 8mill for their 15% stake in the championship.
- the trust were excluded from helping as found out in that thread you started and got embarrassed on.
- We all know the 25% scenario won't happen. So why do you keep bringing up something that hasn't happened and won't happen?
Let's see how many of these points you have a retort for then. I suspect however it'll probably just be a re-run of lawyers being from England or something though. Waffle with no relevant substance. | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 14:35 - Feb 11 with 438 views | Chief |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 13:10 - Feb 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
The old owners had 80% of the club and no cash. Pretty similar. |
That's a great point. Eventually they sold up (mostly).
Now the trust want to do the same and Resloven has a meltdown....
Even though the proceeds from the trust's sale can only be used in conjunction with the club.
And not in Villas in Marbella or pubs in the lower Swansea Valley. | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 15:44 - Feb 11 with 417 views | 3swan |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 13:08 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Growth is in the value of the playing staff and in general inflation . Swansea buy younger players with potential and selling value. Ayew had no value because his wages were too high. Now Fulton is of no value because his wages are too high.
Valuing Championship teams in not easy but Premier league valuations are rising and rising fast New Arab money. Burnley going for £200m was a big eye opener (for switched on people). Twice as much as Swansea 5 years earlier. (inflation). I consider over all that current problem not withstanding Swansea is more likely to go up than down. The club is generally well run and keep the books straight.
Forums are occupied by activists and Trust members. They seem to have very little knowledge of basic facts about their organisation. Such how much the court case would cost?, what they would receive? , what happens if they lose? how they would invest the money? etc. People who ask question and want answers a "have an agenda".
For fans who are not member of the Trust the convertible loan note is great news. Investment at last if it is converted. The Trust will be diluted to perhaps 15% ownership. It is not good news for people who have lost their wallet.
Why should fans care?. What difference does it make? Actually no difference. Does it affect the trust's valuation? No it does not. The trust were worth a notional £8m before and £8m after. If they was no investment cracks would appear. No signings ,the pitch would not be relayed and the steel work would continue to rust.
The 'great saviours' of the club cannot deliver. When Covid struck they had no money to help. They have been invested in a 'Super high risk' stock since promotion. They needed to sell any time after Laudrup. They stated they would "never sell" and wanted protection against dilution. (They had no intention of investing). " A golden share" as I understand it. Relegation co aught them out. They acted "too late". They are always "too late". They work at a snails pace with no urgency. Being left behind should be no surprise to anyone. Did member think it would be 6 years since the sale and no court case?
In effect they wanted special privileges the "Princess Margaret" option. Let everyone else do the work and just turn up every two weeks in the VIP lounge. 25.1% holding no cash. They man that goes on a pub crawl and forgets his wallet. A classic "entitled" south Wales loser mentality. They want a veto. You must be joking. |
You made the comment about the Trust value growing, which is what I questioned. You give an answer about the clubs value including players. That has no direct monitory value to the Trust. The value is at sale or dividends. We can’t predict the future so currently there is no growth. You then comment about the Trust value being approx £8m at 21% and 15%. That makes no sense as the value can only be at what someone will pay. You continue to denigrate Trust members when you have no idea whether they have asked questions or what views they have. | | | |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 17:00 - Feb 11 with 392 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 15:44 - Feb 11 by 3swan |
You made the comment about the Trust value growing, which is what I questioned. You give an answer about the clubs value including players. That has no direct monitory value to the Trust. The value is at sale or dividends. We can’t predict the future so currently there is no growth. You then comment about the Trust value being approx £8m at 21% and 15%. That makes no sense as the value can only be at what someone will pay. You continue to denigrate Trust members when you have no idea whether they have asked questions or what views they have. |
Dilution does not directly affect the Trust's value. When others invest the Trust can either pay their 21% contribution or pay in percentage holding. In my opinion they should pay their share. They are 20 years old and effectively need 'to get a job' philosophically speaking. Their monetary value is unchanged. They should cough up.
The Trust's holding in the club is notionally increasing. The value of Piroe is greater than the value of Ayew who was a financial liability. It clearly depends on the club performance and purchases. This adds monetary value to the Trust when valued. "Direct" monetary value does not mean anything to me. All things being equal inflation sees financial growth.
Degradation is not happening because of maintenance (for example painting the steel work) and the pitch will survive for a while. This was paid for by the Convertible loan. Trust contribution zero. They have not volunteered their 21% (£2.73m). Its only £2,154 per member. (assuming 1100 members). When youown a football club you have responsibilities like maintenance. When money is tight you have to put you hand in your pocket. Did not anyone tell the members this?
Where is you cash Sir? Would you prefer to dilute? No problem Sir sign here. Ever heard of putting money away for a rainy day? A farmer from Seven Sisters understands it. It never crossed the mind of Chief.
Swansea Trust signed up for good days and bad days. The 'good time Charlies' enjoyed the good days but now are heading for the door. They took £400,000 in dividends but are in no rush to invest a penny.
Worth £21,000,000 in 2015 and introduced to two American groups with money to spend. They could not cut a deal with either of them. Everybody else did. They have excuses of course. This is business no one is interested in excuses. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 17:57 - Feb 11 with 365 views | Chief |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 17:00 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Dilution does not directly affect the Trust's value. When others invest the Trust can either pay their 21% contribution or pay in percentage holding. In my opinion they should pay their share. They are 20 years old and effectively need 'to get a job' philosophically speaking. Their monetary value is unchanged. They should cough up.
The Trust's holding in the club is notionally increasing. The value of Piroe is greater than the value of Ayew who was a financial liability. It clearly depends on the club performance and purchases. This adds monetary value to the Trust when valued. "Direct" monetary value does not mean anything to me. All things being equal inflation sees financial growth.
Degradation is not happening because of maintenance (for example painting the steel work) and the pitch will survive for a while. This was paid for by the Convertible loan. Trust contribution zero. They have not volunteered their 21% (£2.73m). Its only £2,154 per member. (assuming 1100 members). When youown a football club you have responsibilities like maintenance. When money is tight you have to put you hand in your pocket. Did not anyone tell the members this?
Where is you cash Sir? Would you prefer to dilute? No problem Sir sign here. Ever heard of putting money away for a rainy day? A farmer from Seven Sisters understands it. It never crossed the mind of Chief.
Swansea Trust signed up for good days and bad days. The 'good time Charlies' enjoyed the good days but now are heading for the door. They took £400,000 in dividends but are in no rush to invest a penny.
Worth £21,000,000 in 2015 and introduced to two American groups with money to spend. They could not cut a deal with either of them. Everybody else did. They have excuses of course. This is business no one is interested in excuses. |
- so you now want them to pay their 21% and you don't want them diluted!? I thought you said that percentage was too big for them!? On other threads you say you want them to leave. You type so much nonsense see in repeated desperate attempts to discredit you tangle yourself up in knots. They can't cough up because they Americans haven't converted.
- club performance is at its lowest ebb in nearly 20 years on the pitch and off it (currently in £13million debt).
- " Did not anyone tell the members this?" No that's exactly the point, the Americans didn't tell the trust& members.
- where is what cash? None has been requested. You're a farmer from seven sisters? Why would it cross my mind? I'm not in the business of criticising people for things that I know is out of their hands.
- you mean like the sellouts headed for the door and left? (After investing zero).
- the judge will be pretty interested in the story though. He'll deal in facts - that being the trust were excluded for months &when they were finally able to talk to the Americans they offered inferior deals. Why should the trust accept inferior deals? This is business. | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 18:06 - Feb 11 with 360 views | Chief |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 14:25 - Feb 11 by Chief |
****Ding, ding, ding****
- WE HAVE A BURNLEY REFERENCE. Are you saying the Americans aren't switched on then? Surely if they'd noticed the Burnley opportunity they should jump at the chance of acquiring more shares?
- Oh ye the trust should announce publically how much money they have to fight the case. My goodness you really don't think these things through do you? The throw cachu against the wall and hope some sticks tactic. Do you know how much the Americans are paying for their representation?
- You're living in Dreamland if you think the trust would get 8mill for their 15% stake in the championship.
- the trust were excluded from helping as found out in that thread you started and got embarrassed on.
- We all know the 25% scenario won't happen. So why do you keep bringing up something that hasn't happened and won't happen?
Let's see how many of these points you have a retort for then. I suspect however it'll probably just be a re-run of lawyers being from England or something though. Waffle with no relevant substance. |
I notice this post hasn't been replied to Resloven. Why not?
But you've replied to another post by 3swan on a specific part of the discussion with another huge rambling copy and paste spesh monologue on a lot of other disproved waffle.
****The ReSlOvEn CyClE**** | |
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 18:08 - Feb 11 with 358 views | Chief |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 17:00 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Dilution does not directly affect the Trust's value. When others invest the Trust can either pay their 21% contribution or pay in percentage holding. In my opinion they should pay their share. They are 20 years old and effectively need 'to get a job' philosophically speaking. Their monetary value is unchanged. They should cough up.
The Trust's holding in the club is notionally increasing. The value of Piroe is greater than the value of Ayew who was a financial liability. It clearly depends on the club performance and purchases. This adds monetary value to the Trust when valued. "Direct" monetary value does not mean anything to me. All things being equal inflation sees financial growth.
Degradation is not happening because of maintenance (for example painting the steel work) and the pitch will survive for a while. This was paid for by the Convertible loan. Trust contribution zero. They have not volunteered their 21% (£2.73m). Its only £2,154 per member. (assuming 1100 members). When youown a football club you have responsibilities like maintenance. When money is tight you have to put you hand in your pocket. Did not anyone tell the members this?
Where is you cash Sir? Would you prefer to dilute? No problem Sir sign here. Ever heard of putting money away for a rainy day? A farmer from Seven Sisters understands it. It never crossed the mind of Chief.
Swansea Trust signed up for good days and bad days. The 'good time Charlies' enjoyed the good days but now are heading for the door. They took £400,000 in dividends but are in no rush to invest a penny.
Worth £21,000,000 in 2015 and introduced to two American groups with money to spend. They could not cut a deal with either of them. Everybody else did. They have excuses of course. This is business no one is interested in excuses. |
Haha hold on, it's just dawned on me. You're a farmer.
Does that explain why you're so sensitive to the sheep shaggr chants!?
Too close to home!?
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| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 18:51 - Feb 11 with 340 views | BillyChong |
| How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 01:14 - Feb 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
There was no investment in the club after 2002. The club was run on loans off the current account. It was successful because of the influence of Jenkins and Morgan not because of Trust board member with respect.
This is common knowledge. It was in my opinion and exceptional case unlikely to be repeated.
However we have things today like Covid leaving a £13m black hole filled by the Convertible loan note. This will be invested to buy Piroe Downes Patterson and Ntcham and general maintenance for the stadium. It is good for Swansea as its the dilution of the Trust.
The club with the Trust having excessive control will not find partners especially in light of a litigious Trust. Wrexham Trust discovered they have no friends to partner with as an example. The Swansea Trust with a wretched investment record will be unable to make money on the markets. It would become Exeter city or even worse Wrexham. The next Huw Jenkins will not dance to the tune of the local school teacher telling him what he can and cannot do. Jenkins and Morgan called the shots. No one in the Trust could go even close to hem.
Wrexham Trust full of hope and optimisms simply stagnated and weary of the grind simply gave up and handed over the keys. Exeter city with 3000 members cough up £30 each and tick over. No great ambition. Not for sale, A nice quaint club going nowhere. This is not want I want.
The best young kids will head straight for Legoland with out a thought. It is a nightmare vision for low expectation 'know you place' Welshmen and women and Stuart James to wallow in the warm of community ownership.
If the US people invest £50m in Swansea and expand the stadium and the Trust are diluted to 5% who cares. I do not. They are not fit for the purpose of being a 'safety net'. They may have the net but it will be 3 inches of the ground. With no investment ability they will stagnate and be shunned by business partners. Local business will save Swansea not the Trust. The Trust have been bad for the club. The owners will not make the same mistake twice. |
The Wrexham Supporters Trust saved the club. They managed to clear the debts left by previous owners. They regained control of the ground. They sold to an ambitious, well known pair with investment written into the deal. And guess what they immediately invested in the club (and not in the form of loans/convertible loan notes etc). Not only have they invested financially into the club, they are public facing which in the day of the internet/social media is worth every penny. The majority of the Swansea hedge fund could walk into the Railway on a match day and wouldn’t be known from Adam. | | | |
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