| Good Luck UK 12:13 - Dec 12 with 65886 views | PlanetHonneywood |
For the Eze, not the Pugh!
#votewarburton
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| Good Luck UK on 09:53 - Dec 17 with 2041 views | colinallcars |
| Good Luck UK on 09:50 - Dec 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Off the top of my head really but here it is:
Sierra Leone: 1
Balkans: 72
Afghanistan: 456
Iraq: 179
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TOTAL: 708 |
Sorry, Bazza, I thought you were referring to Iraq. Would you agree though that the interventions in the other conflicts you mention were in the long term beneficial ? |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 10:37 - Dec 17 with 1978 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Good Luck UK on 09:53 - Dec 17 by colinallcars |
Sorry, Bazza, I thought you were referring to Iraq. Would you agree though that the interventions in the other conflicts you mention were in the long term beneficial ? |
Not really.
Iraq was the epicentre of the ISIS brand, Afghanistan is back to the 2001 levels of violence and Taliban occupation, the Sierra Leon conflict just seeped into other countries.
Could argue the Balkans are safer, but in terms of influence Serbia is slowly becoming a Russo satellite country. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 11:00 - Dec 17 with 1940 views | Phildo |
| Good Luck UK on 08:41 - Dec 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Agreed, but 'death spiral'?
and trust me, it really doesn't make me feel better! [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 8:59]
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It is a death spiral as a prospective governing party- the liberals still exist but have not realistically been able to say they are going to win for a long time. Labour will still be able to rack up large majorities in the likes of Islington. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 11:06 - Dec 17 with 1929 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 22:36 - Dec 16 by DannytheR |
Honest to God, you've lost me. With you all the way about the effects of gentrification on London and the way the middle classes have been squeezed out, but all sorts of people live here for all sorts of reasons, so out of 8million people I'd be wary of drawing too many conclusions about one person making a go of it in Manchester instead (you know the locals there also now complain about how terrible it is compared to 20 years ago because of Londoners moving up there?)
I can equally quote you loads of examples of people who've moved out of London and then come back in a hurry, having missed the place too much - me included.
Downtrodden and depressed? Really? London's hectic and stressful. Always has been. Wouldn't be London otherwise.
As for your description of different parts of town, again, I'm stumped. I grew up in Ladbroke Grove and Shepherds Bush. They've changed a lot, not always for the better, and to me the places they were in the 70s and 80s will always be home, but saying they've gone "downhill" is barmy. Bloody hell, do you actually remember Latimer Road in the early 80s? Hardly Frinton-on-sea was it?
If you do live in London, fair enough, but I do find it weird when people feel free to dig out the city others in earshot call home. The way London gets slagged off on here I'd find weird even if Rangers weren't a London club. I don't personally want to live in Buckinghamshire or Essex, but I wouldn't necessarily start holding forth about it. |
If you take just one thing from the election it should be this; it's finally ok to speak candidly rather than place feelings above fact. The fact is the areas I listed have gone downhill in the last 30 years. Period. If you prefer to see it through rose tinted spectacles because you live there then that's your prerogative but I won't be blinkered by loyalty. That's the same form of denial that lost Labour the election by a landslide. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 11:15]
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| Good Luck UK on 11:10 - Dec 17 with 1920 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 17:30 - Dec 16 by Miss_Terraces |
With the added bonus, of having the euro as their national currency |
Wonderful. But of course Sturgeon wants to leave the UK and keep the GBP (as well as the North Sea, the British Army, etc). A bit like a teenager who decides that they want to move out of their parents' home because they want independence but will only move out on the proviso that mummy and daddy continue to feed him and wash his laundry. On your bike, Nicola. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 11:13]
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| Good Luck UK on 11:20 - Dec 17 with 1892 views | essextaxiboy |
| Good Luck UK on 09:34 - Dec 17 by colinallcars |
So it begins....the Brexit bill to be amended to block any further extension so we may yet leave without a deal and no protection for workers' rights. Bythe way Bazza, one fatality is too many but where did you get the 1000 British kids coming home in body bags ? |
Its funny how different viewpoints see things . I see the extention block as a way to maximise the efforts on both sides to have a trade deal done in a year . I think the pqueens speech will contain legislation to hold us to EU workers rights or better. |  | | |
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| Good Luck UK on 11:24 - Dec 17 with 1880 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Good Luck UK on 11:00 - Dec 17 by Phildo |
It is a death spiral as a prospective governing party- the liberals still exist but have not realistically been able to say they are going to win for a long time. Labour will still be able to rack up large majorities in the likes of Islington. |
Parties ebb and flow mate. Labour before Blair was out of power for 18 years, and the current Tory administration were out of power for 13. This is no more the death knell for Labour than the Tory’s under Major in 1996.
Socialism has won in places like Denmark and Portugal recently and thrives in those countries. One day everything will click in this country like it did for Blair and those under 45 years olds who voted Corbyn today will the 65 year olds who vote Labour tomorrow.
Let’s not get dramatic. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 11:40 - Dec 17 with 1855 views | francisbowles |
| Good Luck UK on 11:20 - Dec 17 by essextaxiboy |
Its funny how different viewpoints see things . I see the extention block as a way to maximise the efforts on both sides to have a trade deal done in a year . I think the pqueens speech will contain legislation to hold us to EU workers rights or better. |
Agree with you on this ETB and also it increases pressure on the EU side that we are leaving with (preferably) or without a deal and WTO terms. Remembering that the trade from the EU into UK is higher than the other way, it is in their interests, having secured a withdrawl agreement, to do likewise with a trade deal. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 11:46 - Dec 17 with 1841 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 11:24 - Dec 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Parties ebb and flow mate. Labour before Blair was out of power for 18 years, and the current Tory administration were out of power for 13. This is no more the death knell for Labour than the Tory’s under Major in 1996.
Socialism has won in places like Denmark and Portugal recently and thrives in those countries. One day everything will click in this country like it did for Blair and those under 45 years olds who voted Corbyn today will the 65 year olds who vote Labour tomorrow.
Let’s not get dramatic. |
I agree with the first paragraph but not the second. Politics does indeed ebb and flow so Labour will rise again one day, though when that will be is anyone's guess. It could be as soon as 5 years if Boris lets the North down and Labour selects a credible leader who moves its policies towards centre left. It could be longer if Boris delivers and Labour continue to squabble and self-deny.
However, people also change particularly as the realities of life set in. Youngsters tend to have little or no responsibility and that results in an ideological perspective. Once they have mortgages/rent/bills to pay and children of their own to feed/clothe then they begin to understand that life isn't ideological and more practical measures are required, measures that have to be paid for. The exception to this are those who choose to live a dependency lifestyle. Nonetheless, I wouldn't back on the young socialists of today necessarily remaining the elderly socialists of tomorrow. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 11:48]
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| Good Luck UK on 11:50 - Dec 17 with 1835 views | essextaxiboy |
| Good Luck UK on 11:40 - Dec 17 by francisbowles |
Agree with you on this ETB and also it increases pressure on the EU side that we are leaving with (preferably) or without a deal and WTO terms. Remembering that the trade from the EU into UK is higher than the other way, it is in their interests, having secured a withdrawl agreement, to do likewise with a trade deal. |
I obviously dont know the whole story ,but you would think that starting from a position of exact alignment and with templates llike Canada it would come down to a relatively few sticking points ... | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 11:57 - Dec 17 with 1820 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Good Luck UK on 11:46 - Dec 17 by Benny_the_Ball |
I agree with the first paragraph but not the second. Politics does indeed ebb and flow so Labour will rise again one day, though when that will be is anyone's guess. It could be as soon as 5 years if Boris lets the North down and Labour selects a credible leader who moves its policies towards centre left. It could be longer if Boris delivers and Labour continue to squabble and self-deny.
However, people also change particularly as the realities of life set in. Youngsters tend to have little or no responsibility and that results in an ideological perspective. Once they have mortgages/rent/bills to pay and children of their own to feed/clothe then they begin to understand that life isn't ideological and more practical measures are required, measures that have to be paid for. The exception to this are those who choose to live a dependency lifestyle. Nonetheless, I wouldn't back on the young socialists of today necessarily remaining the elderly socialists of tomorrow. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 11:48]
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‘Youngsters have little or no responsibility’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/young-carers-uk-numbers-rise-fig
https://www.recruitment-international.co.uk/blog/2017/01/one-in-five-working-mil
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rent-young-people-millennials-mo [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 12:00]
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| Good Luck UK on 12:04 - Dec 17 with 1810 views | Konk |
Even without Brexit and the unique position that put Labour in, it's been obvious for ages that Corbyn was completely unelectable. I have lost count of the amount of people I know who said they couldn't vote for him, even though they would usually vote Labour. A lot of people were unhappy with various causes/individuals he'd aligned himself with in the past, found him too ideological, awkward/odd and humourless, and seemingly unwilling to tolerate or consider competing views. And that's before you get onto the manifesto, which was presumably drawn up with everyone around the table asked to list the top 300 things they would do to make the country better. Rather than proposing a revolution in the first term, what about nationalising railways, extra-funding for public services and leave it at that? Broad-cross-party support for the renationalisation of the railways, nothing too scary for the middle-of-the-road floating-voter. Establish that you can get big projects done in the first term and then propose something more radical for your second term; renationalise the water companies etc. Free broadband ffs - ensuring there would be decent coverage in rural areas would have made sense, but why free broadband? 30% off train fares - I think most people would have been happy with privatisation and the government setting fares in the future. Even something like scrapping student fees - at my local university in Bristol, just under 40% of students were privately-educated. Why should their families be subsidised by working class voters whose kids are statistically much more unlikely to go to university? Why not suggest reintroducing grants or writing-off tuition fees on a means-tested basis? A sh it load cheaper and arguably much fairer. If you promise too much, people begin to question your credibility.
To find ourselves with a massive Tory majority after nine years of devastating austerity, Cameron, May, a complete shi t of a person like Johnson and the fiasco of Brexit, is just beyond my comprehension. I find it depressing reading comments blaming the Guardian/BBC/more-centrist Labour MPs for Labour's failings; large numbers of life-long Labour supporters and floating voters in marginal constituencies gave Labour a massive fu ck-right-off and it wasn't because they heard Jess Phillips or Wes Streeting criticising Corbyn on Radio 4. We live in a country where our public services are on the brink of collapse and only 'function' at all due to the goodwill and dedication of the staff who go above and beyond. We live in a country where food banks have become normalised in towns and cities of all sizes, where schools are asking for parents to contribute towards pens, pencils, paper and books. Where there are record numbers of homeless people sleeping rough, even in the suburbs of our towns and cities. And yet despite all of this, we have just seen a massive Tory majority returned, and often in constituencies that have been amongst the hardest hit. I know Brexit is an obvious factor in that, but at the same time, it should surely be obvious that more of the same from Labour will deliver more of the same at the ballot box.
It's all well and good having 500,000 students, middle-aged SWP-paper-sellers and Len Mcluskey types as members, but if the rest of the country isn't buying into your ideas and backing you, then what's the fu cking point? If the current shadow cabinet are anything to go by, then Labour aren't even going to form an effective opposition. As much as it may dismay the ideological purists in the Labour party, if they want to help the working class of our country, they need to form the government. And if they can't even appeal to their traditional working class voters, never mind those floating voters who are receptive to the idea of a Labour government, then we're stuffed. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 12:28]
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| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Good Luck UK on 12:26 - Dec 17 with 1776 views | stevec |
On the plus side for Labour, Corbyn's given them another 5 years contemplation. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 12:35 - Dec 17 with 1754 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Good Luck UK on 12:04 - Dec 17 by Konk |
Even without Brexit and the unique position that put Labour in, it's been obvious for ages that Corbyn was completely unelectable. I have lost count of the amount of people I know who said they couldn't vote for him, even though they would usually vote Labour. A lot of people were unhappy with various causes/individuals he'd aligned himself with in the past, found him too ideological, awkward/odd and humourless, and seemingly unwilling to tolerate or consider competing views. And that's before you get onto the manifesto, which was presumably drawn up with everyone around the table asked to list the top 300 things they would do to make the country better. Rather than proposing a revolution in the first term, what about nationalising railways, extra-funding for public services and leave it at that? Broad-cross-party support for the renationalisation of the railways, nothing too scary for the middle-of-the-road floating-voter. Establish that you can get big projects done in the first term and then propose something more radical for your second term; renationalise the water companies etc. Free broadband ffs - ensuring there would be decent coverage in rural areas would have made sense, but why free broadband? 30% off train fares - I think most people would have been happy with privatisation and the government setting fares in the future. Even something like scrapping student fees - at my local university in Bristol, just under 40% of students were privately-educated. Why should their families be subsidised by working class voters whose kids are statistically much more unlikely to go to university? Why not suggest reintroducing grants or writing-off tuition fees on a means-tested basis? A sh it load cheaper and arguably much fairer. If you promise too much, people begin to question your credibility.
To find ourselves with a massive Tory majority after nine years of devastating austerity, Cameron, May, a complete shi t of a person like Johnson and the fiasco of Brexit, is just beyond my comprehension. I find it depressing reading comments blaming the Guardian/BBC/more-centrist Labour MPs for Labour's failings; large numbers of life-long Labour supporters and floating voters in marginal constituencies gave Labour a massive fu ck-right-off and it wasn't because they heard Jess Phillips or Wes Streeting criticising Corbyn on Radio 4. We live in a country where our public services are on the brink of collapse and only 'function' at all due to the goodwill and dedication of the staff who go above and beyond. We live in a country where food banks have become normalised in towns and cities of all sizes, where schools are asking for parents to contribute towards pens, pencils, paper and books. Where there are record numbers of homeless people sleeping rough, even in the suburbs of our towns and cities. And yet despite all of this, we have just seen a massive Tory majority returned, and often in constituencies that have been amongst the hardest hit. I know Brexit is an obvious factor in that, but at the same time, it should surely be obvious that more of the same from Labour will deliver more of the same at the ballot box.
It's all well and good having 500,000 students, middle-aged SWP-paper-sellers and Len Mcluskey types as members, but if the rest of the country isn't buying into your ideas and backing you, then what's the fu cking point? If the current shadow cabinet are anything to go by, then Labour aren't even going to form an effective opposition. As much as it may dismay the ideological purists in the Labour party, if they want to help the working class of our country, they need to form the government. And if they can't even appeal to their traditional working class voters, never mind those floating voters who are receptive to the idea of a Labour government, then we're stuffed. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 12:28]
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Did you say you lived in Bristol now Konk? | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 12:46 - Dec 17 with 1738 views | Konk |
| Good Luck UK on 12:35 - Dec 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Did you say you lived in Bristol now Konk? |
Yep. Which returned four Labour MPs. It's one of the most affluent cities in the country and has an abundance of students, academics, public sector workers and boho types. It was also a big remain city unless you count the white working class estates on the outskirts which voted to leave. Pretty confident that Labour in Bristol rely on middle-class votes more than working class votes these days. Chatting with neighbours at a kids birthday party the other day, we had a Labour activist amongst us who was out leafletting and even she wasn't sure she was voting Labour this time!
Below are the Bristol results for the European elections. The Greens performance possibly gives an indication of how unhappy a lot of Labour supporters in Bristol were about Corbyn, but in the GE, lots of us backed our incumbent Labour MP or couldn't countenance not voting Labour, however great our doubts.
Green: 35.1 per cent (49,126 votes)
Liberal Democrats: 22.5 per cent (31,510)
Brexit Party: 18.6 per cent (26,071)
Labour: 13.9 per cent (19,431)
Conservatives: 4.7 per cent (6,623)
Change UK: 2.3 per cent (3,258)
UKIP: 2.3 per cent (3,196 votes)
[Post edited 17 Dec 2019 12:55]
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| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Good Luck UK on 13:27 - Dec 17 with 1664 views | Northernr |
| Good Luck UK on 12:04 - Dec 17 by Konk |
Even without Brexit and the unique position that put Labour in, it's been obvious for ages that Corbyn was completely unelectable. I have lost count of the amount of people I know who said they couldn't vote for him, even though they would usually vote Labour. A lot of people were unhappy with various causes/individuals he'd aligned himself with in the past, found him too ideological, awkward/odd and humourless, and seemingly unwilling to tolerate or consider competing views. And that's before you get onto the manifesto, which was presumably drawn up with everyone around the table asked to list the top 300 things they would do to make the country better. Rather than proposing a revolution in the first term, what about nationalising railways, extra-funding for public services and leave it at that? Broad-cross-party support for the renationalisation of the railways, nothing too scary for the middle-of-the-road floating-voter. Establish that you can get big projects done in the first term and then propose something more radical for your second term; renationalise the water companies etc. Free broadband ffs - ensuring there would be decent coverage in rural areas would have made sense, but why free broadband? 30% off train fares - I think most people would have been happy with privatisation and the government setting fares in the future. Even something like scrapping student fees - at my local university in Bristol, just under 40% of students were privately-educated. Why should their families be subsidised by working class voters whose kids are statistically much more unlikely to go to university? Why not suggest reintroducing grants or writing-off tuition fees on a means-tested basis? A sh it load cheaper and arguably much fairer. If you promise too much, people begin to question your credibility.
To find ourselves with a massive Tory majority after nine years of devastating austerity, Cameron, May, a complete shi t of a person like Johnson and the fiasco of Brexit, is just beyond my comprehension. I find it depressing reading comments blaming the Guardian/BBC/more-centrist Labour MPs for Labour's failings; large numbers of life-long Labour supporters and floating voters in marginal constituencies gave Labour a massive fu ck-right-off and it wasn't because they heard Jess Phillips or Wes Streeting criticising Corbyn on Radio 4. We live in a country where our public services are on the brink of collapse and only 'function' at all due to the goodwill and dedication of the staff who go above and beyond. We live in a country where food banks have become normalised in towns and cities of all sizes, where schools are asking for parents to contribute towards pens, pencils, paper and books. Where there are record numbers of homeless people sleeping rough, even in the suburbs of our towns and cities. And yet despite all of this, we have just seen a massive Tory majority returned, and often in constituencies that have been amongst the hardest hit. I know Brexit is an obvious factor in that, but at the same time, it should surely be obvious that more of the same from Labour will deliver more of the same at the ballot box.
It's all well and good having 500,000 students, middle-aged SWP-paper-sellers and Len Mcluskey types as members, but if the rest of the country isn't buying into your ideas and backing you, then what's the fu cking point? If the current shadow cabinet are anything to go by, then Labour aren't even going to form an effective opposition. As much as it may dismay the ideological purists in the Labour party, if they want to help the working class of our country, they need to form the government. And if they can't even appeal to their traditional working class voters, never mind those floating voters who are receptive to the idea of a Labour government, then we're stuffed. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 12:28]
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Applause. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 13:29 - Dec 17 with 1654 views | nix |
Spot on Konk. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 13:30 - Dec 17 with 2220 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Good Luck UK on 12:46 - Dec 17 by Konk |
Yep. Which returned four Labour MPs. It's one of the most affluent cities in the country and has an abundance of students, academics, public sector workers and boho types. It was also a big remain city unless you count the white working class estates on the outskirts which voted to leave. Pretty confident that Labour in Bristol rely on middle-class votes more than working class votes these days. Chatting with neighbours at a kids birthday party the other day, we had a Labour activist amongst us who was out leafletting and even she wasn't sure she was voting Labour this time!
Below are the Bristol results for the European elections. The Greens performance possibly gives an indication of how unhappy a lot of Labour supporters in Bristol were about Corbyn, but in the GE, lots of us backed our incumbent Labour MP or couldn't countenance not voting Labour, however great our doubts.
Green: 35.1 per cent (49,126 votes)
Liberal Democrats: 22.5 per cent (31,510)
Brexit Party: 18.6 per cent (26,071)
Labour: 13.9 per cent (19,431)
Conservatives: 4.7 per cent (6,623)
Change UK: 2.3 per cent (3,258)
UKIP: 2.3 per cent (3,196 votes)
[Post edited 17 Dec 2019 12:55]
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Glad you saw my point coming.
1) Labour typically finish 2nd / 3rd / 4th overall in EU elections even under Blair.
2) Liverpool is the most deprived city in the UK and also returned a full house and increased majorities.
Agree with lots of your other points in the previous post mind [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 13:35]
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| Good Luck UK on 13:31 - Dec 17 with 2221 views | Mick_S |
| Good Luck UK on 13:29 - Dec 17 by nix |
Spot on Konk. |
It could be printed and handed around to the hard of thinking. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Good Luck UK on 13:32 - Dec 17 with 2216 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Good Luck UK on 12:04 - Dec 17 by Konk |
Even without Brexit and the unique position that put Labour in, it's been obvious for ages that Corbyn was completely unelectable. I have lost count of the amount of people I know who said they couldn't vote for him, even though they would usually vote Labour. A lot of people were unhappy with various causes/individuals he'd aligned himself with in the past, found him too ideological, awkward/odd and humourless, and seemingly unwilling to tolerate or consider competing views. And that's before you get onto the manifesto, which was presumably drawn up with everyone around the table asked to list the top 300 things they would do to make the country better. Rather than proposing a revolution in the first term, what about nationalising railways, extra-funding for public services and leave it at that? Broad-cross-party support for the renationalisation of the railways, nothing too scary for the middle-of-the-road floating-voter. Establish that you can get big projects done in the first term and then propose something more radical for your second term; renationalise the water companies etc. Free broadband ffs - ensuring there would be decent coverage in rural areas would have made sense, but why free broadband? 30% off train fares - I think most people would have been happy with privatisation and the government setting fares in the future. Even something like scrapping student fees - at my local university in Bristol, just under 40% of students were privately-educated. Why should their families be subsidised by working class voters whose kids are statistically much more unlikely to go to university? Why not suggest reintroducing grants or writing-off tuition fees on a means-tested basis? A sh it load cheaper and arguably much fairer. If you promise too much, people begin to question your credibility.
To find ourselves with a massive Tory majority after nine years of devastating austerity, Cameron, May, a complete shi t of a person like Johnson and the fiasco of Brexit, is just beyond my comprehension. I find it depressing reading comments blaming the Guardian/BBC/more-centrist Labour MPs for Labour's failings; large numbers of life-long Labour supporters and floating voters in marginal constituencies gave Labour a massive fu ck-right-off and it wasn't because they heard Jess Phillips or Wes Streeting criticising Corbyn on Radio 4. We live in a country where our public services are on the brink of collapse and only 'function' at all due to the goodwill and dedication of the staff who go above and beyond. We live in a country where food banks have become normalised in towns and cities of all sizes, where schools are asking for parents to contribute towards pens, pencils, paper and books. Where there are record numbers of homeless people sleeping rough, even in the suburbs of our towns and cities. And yet despite all of this, we have just seen a massive Tory majority returned, and often in constituencies that have been amongst the hardest hit. I know Brexit is an obvious factor in that, but at the same time, it should surely be obvious that more of the same from Labour will deliver more of the same at the ballot box.
It's all well and good having 500,000 students, middle-aged SWP-paper-sellers and Len Mcluskey types as members, but if the rest of the country isn't buying into your ideas and backing you, then what's the fu cking point? If the current shadow cabinet are anything to go by, then Labour aren't even going to form an effective opposition. As much as it may dismay the ideological purists in the Labour party, if they want to help the working class of our country, they need to form the government. And if they can't even appeal to their traditional working class voters, never mind those floating voters who are receptive to the idea of a Labour government, then we're stuffed. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 12:28]
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The thread is holding up well, and no-one's been shot yet, but this is a cracking post. Fair play, Konk.
It seems that every time the Left lose in Europe the press rush to tell them that they should abandon their ideals. When the Right lose, we don't get the same clamour.
I prefer your approach: state what you believe in, what you wish for, what you dream of, but state loud and clear that politics is the art of the possible and that you are clear in your belief that in the next five years only x, y and z can be afforded and only x, y and z will be introduced.
Leadership. |  |
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| Good Luck UK on 13:40 - Dec 17 with 2176 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Probably doesn't allow for the following, Clive:-
1) Population growth
2) Actual spend on users, rather than private corporations | |
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| Good Luck UK on 13:47 - Dec 17 with 2141 views | stevec |
This is not the time for factual based evidence suggesting Labour have been talking a load of old bóllocks, we're trying to do some serious navel gazing here.
Ohh, Rebecca Long Bailey. Ohh Rebecca Long Bailey | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 13:58 - Dec 17 with 2104 views | QPR_Jim |
| Good Luck UK on 13:47 - Dec 17 by stevec |
This is not the time for factual based evidence suggesting Labour have been talking a load of old bóllocks, we're trying to do some serious navel gazing here.
Ohh, Rebecca Long Bailey. Ohh Rebecca Long Bailey |
Wasn't it in consecutive Conservative manifestos to cut spending? So did they fail to keep to their promises? |  | | |
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