| Brexit .... My thoughts... 11:07 - Jun 16 with 146606 views | JacksDad |
The one thing I am certain of re this vote is that no-one knows for sure what the repercussions economically will be if we pull out. If you listen to the experts it will be better if we stay in, however its all unconvincing. My issue is that after 10 years of Austerity, the services in this country have been cut to the bone, that is services that are needed by us all - not just Immigrants/benefit spongers. We are not in a position to afford the enormous gamble if it all goes t1ts up. I am taking my lead from Ray Winston and gambling responsibly and staying in. If we ever get to situation when everything is adequately funded and horrible 0 hours contracts were abolished ... then maybe it might be worth the risk to pull out. But to do it now is a massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose. |  | | |  |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:22 - Jun 24 with 1954 views | simmo |
As I have said elsewhere, you have to respect democracy. People spoke and a decision was made. I was on the losing side for this but now we're all on the same side, like it or not, so we have to start facing reality and stop the sniping about who was right or wrong and fascist or loony liberal - 70% of the population can't be put specifically in those 2 boxes.
I do though feel that the majority of people that voted Leave did so based on promises and reasons that won't be kept, the main one being immigration (backed up by this being the key indicator from the polls). If the leavers think Farage actually cares about them and hasn't outright lied about things that will happen simply to get the votes he wanted, they're very much mistaken and like all of us, will learn the hard way. It's started already with the admission of money not actually going to the NHS and I personally think we'll keep the freedom to move as part of trade agreements, but as ever, time will tell.
It's the uncertainty people are scared of, once things gain more perspective it will calm down. One thing we should all agree on though, it's going to be a lot worse for quite a while longer and people will have to just tough it out.
Also a shout out to the baby boomers pulling up another ladder - lucky we're all young and fit enought to climb the wall anyway, right? |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:24 - Jun 24 with 1945 views | PinnerPaul |
Don't look very happy for winners do they? | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:24 - Jun 24 with 1937 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:48 - Jun 24 by isawqpratwcity |
How do you feel as an Irishman?
How do you feel as an English national?
How will it affect your life/work/whatever?
How do you see this changing the nationalistic interests of so many countries involved?
Sorry, Brian, you are too independent a commentator for us to let an an occasion like this to pass without comment. Comfort yourself, at least, that the outcome is decided. |
Ok, I'll try and give the view from 'over here'.
How do you feel as an Irishman?
All Irish people will always think about peace first. Last night the North voted to remain in the EU. Like Scotland, they will be denied this opportunity by Westminster, in the process further highlighting the convoluted democratic institutions in the North and reducing the democratic gains of the Good Friday Agreement.
I wonder if this will fuel the resentments of Northern Nationalists who come from a tradition of detesting Westminster (I'm not from the North, so I don't know - I just wonder). I wonder if the calls we have already heard last night and this morning from Northern Nationalists for a Border Poll (a vote to join the Republic) will escalate. I fear that the North isn't ready for that yet, and I fear tensions at best, violence as likely, a full-scale return to the troubles as more likely if still improbable (I hope).
I wonder whether a Border will be re-erected now that one part of our Island is in the EU and one part isn't. This is complicated in the extreme and people like Villiers promising one way or the other lacked the authority and knowledge to do so. The decision will not be made on Irish soil. I am clear that any Border will increase tensions and harm two decades of bridge building. And I am very worried.
How do you feel as an English national?
I won't pretend to know why the citizens of Britain voted the way they did. I hear politicians doing so this morning even though they were clueless last night. It's insulting.
Of the people I know, though, I would observe that many of them voted in anger. I find that dangerous.
I hope that England in particular can heal itself.
I hope - probably in vain - that the political parties will finally now attempt to reconnect with the citizens.
I resent the Tories for playing Russian Roulette with Britain and with Europe over a leadership campaign. I detest UKIP's fearmongering and hatred more than ever.
Finally, I resent the fact that many of my friends who voted Leave have been branded racists. I'm inclined to agree with the line I read last week that every racist would vote Leave but that not every person who would vote Leave is a racist.
How will it affect your life/work/whatever?
I have no idea. Irish economist David McWilliams maintains that Britain's exit from the EU leaves Ireland as the primary English-speaking door to the EU for inward investment and this is to our huge benefit. I see logic in that, but I also realise that should Britain decide to reduce their corporation tax it would be a hammer blow for Ireland.
I don't feel that calamity is necessarily around the corner just because Brexit is here, though I'm worried that the first post-Brexit Westminster Government will be far-right economically. We all survived before and we will again, I suspect. We will trade.
Far too early to tell, but in the short and medium term I'm wary that the vast majority of financial experts worldwide predict a financial hit for Britain and I worry for my friends and family there.
How do you see this changing the nationalistic interests of so many countries involved?
War is more likely, I feel, should more Countries exit. Maybe not today or tomorrow but almost by definition if there are more independent states there is a greater chance of war.
Summary
Still far more questions than answers. I will watch with interest how British and European politicians react to this. Beware the clawback, beware the dilution of the democratic vote delivered last night.
There's a lot of turns in the road yet. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:26 - Jun 24 with 1927 views | rrrspricey |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:04 - Jun 24 by stevec |
London has become totally out of touch with the rest of England. As you say, you and most others aren't far from working class yourselves, and yet time after time, portray the same working class, in the North, the Midlands, the East Coast, Cornwall, you name it, as 'Little Englanders' and ignorant, purely for having the gumption to disagree with you.
Comment after comment on here, disgustingly suggesting the 'public' shouldn't be allowed to have referendums, because they're not 'educated enough'. Basically, they just have different views to you. And you are becoming more and more representative of this 'Luvvie' elitism contaminating the Metropolis. |
It's not disgusting to suggest the public are too uneducated to take part in this referendum at all. One of my closest friend is head of politics at a local Grammar School and holds a masters in economics.
After much deliberation he voted remain yesterday as he's not a risk taker, however he admitted he didn't know what way to vote as he felt "unqualified" to do so. In fact, a large segment of the public (37% according to an ORB poll at the beginning of June) felt they were ill equipped to make an informed decision in this referendum.
Asking the average Joe Public to make a decision of such magnitude should never have happened imho. We are a representative democracy and elect MPs to make decisions on our behalf and by voting for them show we trust and accept their judgment and expertise. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:27 - Jun 24 with 1923 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:15 - Jun 24 by kingshill |
Would the South agree to a union with the North Brian, financial suicide surely?
Plus a pretty fired up and noisy new minority to deal with in that event that would take up valuable resources |
Yes. In a heartbeat.
But many, like me, would fear violence in the short and medium term. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:27 - Jun 24 with 1916 views | TheBlob |
Perhaps now,in the cold light of a new dawn,whatever bile we have left to expend will be better suited to digging each other out on the vicissitudes of Queen's Park Rangers.*
* I'm IN when it comes to an apostrophe. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:27 - Jun 24 with 1915 views | paulparker |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:49 - Jun 24 by robith |
Dunno why you're all still so angry. You won. You've got your country back now, apparently. Can't you just leave us broken souls in peace |
Who is angry Robith ?
from what I've read on here today its mostly people panicking & wanting apologies off the leavers if the country goes to the dogs
as Essex has said lets wait & see nothing is going to happen overnight , especially with the economy which is turbulent anyway , we were in the EU when the bust happened in 07 that never saved us
this is a vote by people who have been fed up the last 20 years , it was a vote for change and not being dictated to by politicians in brussells, time will tell if it was right or wrong |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:27 - Jun 24 with 1913 views | BostonR |
Listening to Boris and Gove is making me puke!
How leave voters were taken by this pair of clowns who will never deliver on their promises is beyond me. Our country is about to take a huge step backwards! |  | | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:32 - Jun 24 with 1877 views | kingshill |
Surely we are just telling them what we want them to do.?
It's now up to them as the professionals to carry out our wishes and get the best deal they can.
We are not qualified to do that deal, but we are qualified to tell the people that are to make it happen | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:32 - Jun 24 with 1875 views | YorkRanger |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:26 - Jun 24 by rrrspricey |
It's not disgusting to suggest the public are too uneducated to take part in this referendum at all. One of my closest friend is head of politics at a local Grammar School and holds a masters in economics.
After much deliberation he voted remain yesterday as he's not a risk taker, however he admitted he didn't know what way to vote as he felt "unqualified" to do so. In fact, a large segment of the public (37% according to an ORB poll at the beginning of June) felt they were ill equipped to make an informed decision in this referendum.
Asking the average Joe Public to make a decision of such magnitude should never have happened imho. We are a representative democracy and elect MPs to make decisions on our behalf and by voting for them show we trust and accept their judgment and expertise. |
I agree with this. The economics on their own are too complex for even those people who are experts in that field to wrestle with all the permutations. It therefore becomes a vote on emotive high level issues without all of the consequences being fully understood. Regrettably Immigration became that number one topic for many. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:33 - Jun 24 with 1860 views | QPR_John |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:40 - Jun 24 by Brightonhoop |
 I dont think anyone does Brian, least of all amongst the political 'leaders.' It's like the genie is out of the bottle. Sturgeon is already saying whilst they would welcome Westminsters blessings for a new Ref they will do it regardless.
Strange times ahead. |
It would be interesting to see the reaction when she campaigns to adopt the euro | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:39 - Jun 24 with 1840 views | bob566 |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:27 - Jun 24 by BostonR |
Listening to Boris and Gove is making me puke!
How leave voters were taken by this pair of clowns who will never deliver on their promises is beyond me. Our country is about to take a huge step backwards! |
we'll see what happens. Its one of these two who will be renegotiating trade deals for the UK with the countries of Europe.
So many little cans of worms have been opened now.
Who gets to fish where now between England and france, in the irish sea etc. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:41 - Jun 24 with 1829 views | Brightonhoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:33 - Jun 24 by QPR_John |
It would be interesting to see the reaction when she campaigns to adopt the euro |
True John, they may seek to keep the UK pound as in the first Ref, when the Spanish told Scotland to get to the back of the queue for Membership, based on there own fears of Catalan and Basque separatists breaking away from Madrid. Highly complex with ramifications right across Europe.
Standard and Poor have just down graded Sterlings triple AAA grade, so by then the Euro might be more attractive. Who knows.... |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:41 - Jun 24 with 1831 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:32 - Jun 24 by kingshill |
Surely we are just telling them what we want them to do.?
It's now up to them as the professionals to carry out our wishes and get the best deal they can.
We are not qualified to do that deal, but we are qualified to tell the people that are to make it happen |
Only half of us get what we want them to do. A two-way referendum with a victory point at 51%, or 50.1%, or whichever decimal place it would have been, is not really democratic. Although I shrink from suggesting where the cut off should be. What is a significant difference between two populations on a binary question. Do we have any statisticians? |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:47 - Jun 24 with 1791 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:17 - Jun 24 by stevec |
fck the global elite is the song sheet we all should be singing from.
Instead a number of Remainers seem hell bent on supporting the elite just to spite the majority who have had enough of the EU. I accept what BH1 says earlier, it's just the negativity of Danny and a few others rattles my cage. |
Negativity? No, I've always chosen to take responsibility for my own life right or wrong, rather than blaming Brussels bureaucrats or immigrants or Eddie Izzard because the chips didn't fall my way.
Fascinated to find out who you're going to blame if things continue to go as tits up as they already have in the space of a single morning.
Won't be yourself though, will it Steve? |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:51 - Jun 24 with 1778 views | R_from_afar |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 06:37 - Jun 24 by Jigsore |
What fills ME with despair is that around 3 quarters of 18-24 year olds voted remain as did my area but because of some baby boomer on a mobility scooter in Margate my whole futures up in the air. All that bloody time learning EU politics when I should have paid more attention in French classes
Scotland will leave, the Northern Ireland issue has already flaired up again with what consequence I don't know. Johnson running the country, Gove redrawing my human rights. You'll probably get some of the right-wingers doing well in countries like Poland and Czech Republic and attempt to leave too because historically that's always gone well but i'm sure the EU will survive... just even more German centric
Cameron ought to just resign right now he's already f*cked that legacy he was so keen to procure. Gambled and lost, badly [Post edited 24 Jun 2016 6:38]
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My 15 year old godson was up all night watching the horror unfold. He is utterly devastated. I know how he feels, as does my wife.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:53 - Jun 24 with 1765 views | simmo |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:32 - Jun 24 by YorkRanger |
I agree with this. The economics on their own are too complex for even those people who are experts in that field to wrestle with all the permutations. It therefore becomes a vote on emotive high level issues without all of the consequences being fully understood. Regrettably Immigration became that number one topic for many. |
Was thinking something similar, for both sides. I wouldn't say I am an intellectual powerhouse but I think I am smart enough to make a call based on what I learn and I had to look REALLY hard for proper, fact based information. Even then I only made up my mind a week or so before. It would be so easy as a passing observer to simply follow the loudest, shiniest most impactful messages coming out rather than try to make an informed decision... | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:54 - Jun 24 with 1754 views | QPR_John |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:41 - Jun 24 by Brightonhoop |
True John, they may seek to keep the UK pound as in the first Ref, when the Spanish told Scotland to get to the back of the queue for Membership, based on there own fears of Catalan and Basque separatists breaking away from Madrid. Highly complex with ramifications right across Europe.
Standard and Poor have just down graded Sterlings triple AAA grade, so by then the Euro might be more attractive. Who knows.... |
Adopting the euro is a prerequisite of joining the EU. She cannot campaign for an independent Scotland joining the EU and keep sterling | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:59 - Jun 24 with 1720 views | traininvain |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:41 - Jun 24 by paulparker |
so your saying that people over a certain age shouldn't be allowed to vote ? even though they have contributed and experienced more in there lives than a just out of school leaver who hasn't worked or experienced anything other than schooling and generally being a teenager |
That's not what I said at all.
I am simply making the point that perhaps the outcome has a bigger impact on a 16 year old than a 90 year old.
It was an observation more than anything. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:02 - Jun 24 with 1711 views | kingshill |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:41 - Jun 24 by izlingtonhoop |
Only half of us get what we want them to do. A two-way referendum with a victory point at 51%, or 50.1%, or whichever decimal place it would have been, is not really democratic. Although I shrink from suggesting where the cut off should be. What is a significant difference between two populations on a binary question. Do we have any statisticians? |
Thems the rules though.
Over 1.25 million more voted out so pretty decisive, not exactly that close when you look at those numbers | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:06 - Jun 24 with 2060 views | R_from_afar |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:06 - Jun 24 by Discodroids |
'That's a very good question on immigration Mr Dimbleby , but what really concerns people that I've spoken to on the doorsteps of my constituency in the North East * /Midlands*/Wales*/South West*/ The south West* /Home counties* /South east*/The North * .....is something else entirely that I prepared earlier. Such as the safety of the white tailed bumblebee within the EU.
*Delete as appropriate. [Post edited 24 Jun 2016 10:07]
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If bee populations continue to plummet, we can look forward to some backbreaking evenings hand pollinating crops in a windswept field just south of Ely.
Perhaps we can even strike up a rousing "We are the Rangers boys" while we toil and see if we can break the world record for unbroken chanting...
My current status is "utterly devastated" but congratulations to you and the others in the Leave camp. The die is cast, we need to be magnanimous in defeat and just plough on, together, somehow.
The broken man | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:09 - Jun 24 with 2043 views | Boston |
I would like at this time, to take the opportunity to voice my wholehearted support for Turkey in its bid to join the EU. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:11 - Jun 24 with 2022 views | DeepcutHoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:27 - Jun 24 by BostonR |
Listening to Boris and Gove is making me puke!
How leave voters were taken by this pair of clowns who will never deliver on their promises is beyond me. Our country is about to take a huge step backwards! |
People voting to stick it to the establishment, by voting the way Johnson and Gove wanted them to.
Way to stick it to the man. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:17 - Jun 24 with 1983 views | Maggsinho |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:11 - Jun 24 by DeepcutHoop |
People voting to stick it to the establishment, by voting the way Johnson and Gove wanted them to.
Way to stick it to the man. |
Don't forget the public school educated, ex-banker Farage. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:19 - Jun 24 with 1966 views | Brightonhoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:11 - Jun 24 by DeepcutHoop |
People voting to stick it to the establishment, by voting the way Johnson and Gove wanted them to.
Way to stick it to the man. |
Yep, they stuck it to the establishment by voting for Boris, Gove, Farage, who are all Multi Millionaires and never have to work again in there lives if they choose not to. | | | |
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