| Season Tickets 14:40 - Feb 21 with 15997 views | TrueDaleBlue |
Next years season tickets will be on sale in a month or so, what do you think the club will do about prices?
Freeze the prices for another season.
Put prices up to reflect the gate increase this year.
Do something radical, and drop prices to try to attract more fans. |  | | |  |
| Season Tickets on 15:07 - Feb 22 with 2405 views | DaleiLama |
| Season Tickets on 14:20 - Feb 22 by D_Alien |
You're right of course, although I dare say if you asked some people within the club they'd say exactly the opposite, i.e. "the fans don't care because they're not turning up"
#disconnect
[Post edited 22 Feb 2016 14:21]
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Disconnect certainly. You're also surely right too, but .......
....... as TS points out above, fans pay to watch, employees get paid to do the job.
And they aren't on the end of a KH rant accusing them of being bad employees (?!?)
And they didn't get a pay cut (fans got an increased admission price)
And if the performance on the pitch is sub-standard for whatever reason, they'll still get paid again come Monday morning.
And they may not stay employed by the club, fans don't change allegiance
Were I to put my mind to it for longer, I'm sure I could add to the list.
In terms of goodwill, the disconnect could be bridged by at least some of the suggestions being tried. You've got to be in it to win it. (See Grimsby fan comment on advertising thread).
#Sigh |  |
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| Season Tickets on 15:08 - Feb 22 with 2405 views | Nigeriamark |
| Season Tickets on 12:32 - Feb 22 by 49thseason |
The scale of the problem with our attendances becomes stark when you consider that the average home attendance for the division is 7107. Our average is currently 3104 - some 205 less than last season. In cash terms, at an average of £18 per ticket, we have £1.6m less income from the turnstiles than clubs attracting the average attendance.
With 46,561 people attending Spotland so far this season, a £2 per head increase has added £93,122 to turnover or by extrapolation £142,784 by the end of the season.
The loss of 205 people x £18 x 23 games reduces this by £84,870 giving an overall £57,914 increase in revenue, If you also deduct a couple of pounds per lost supporter per game for food and drink, programme, shop takings, bars, raffle etc another £9430 has been lost from revenue, this does not take into account people who bought season tickets rather than pay the £2 increase on the day. If there were 100 extra season tickets sold, the revenue reduction could be £115 per person per season taking £11,500 off revenue.
A good guess would be that the £2 price increase has added maybe £35k - £40k to the coffers overall but has also resulted in a 6.9% fall in attendance which if replicated for just 10 seasons would leave us with no supporters attending games!
Clearly this is not a sustainable business model and there needs to be a major re-think around attracting people to Spotland and the price they are expected to pay for L1 football.
Overall we fall behind clubs getting average L1 gates by £72,054 every game. Or put another way, we take £302,508 less than Sheffield United every game.
All prices calculated on £18 per ticket. |
I agree with your logic
However the 205 loss could be because the football this season has not been as exciting as last season. Also what is the drop in Dale Fans rather than total fans? Not much we can do about number of away fans |  | | |
| Season Tickets on 15:27 - Feb 22 with 2364 views | Luke8686 |
| Season Tickets on 15:08 - Feb 22 by Nigeriamark |
I agree with your logic
However the 205 loss could be because the football this season has not been as exciting as last season. Also what is the drop in Dale Fans rather than total fans? Not much we can do about number of away fans |
We are averaging about 300 less home fans this season than at the same period last season. However the figures are slightly skewed in the fact that we have played 2 more Tuesday games this season plus our TV game against Wigan which innevitably affected the gate.
Surely the Hartlepool method would work for us if marketed properly - similar stature, fanbase potential etc. They were averaging about the same crowds as us in 2010/11 when they finished 18th in League One, in the summer of 2011 they managed to sell over 5000 season tickets at £100 a pop (albeit aided with one or two marquee signings such as Nobby Solano) and managed to nearly double their average attendance the following season.
Five years later their gates have dropped a little bit but they're now a league below and still averaging 3500-4000. | | | |
| Season Tickets on 15:27 - Feb 22 with 2363 views | DaleiLama |
| Season Tickets on 15:08 - Feb 22 by Nigeriamark |
I agree with your logic
However the 205 loss could be because the football this season has not been as exciting as last season. Also what is the drop in Dale Fans rather than total fans? Not much we can do about number of away fans |
Ermmmm .......... not increase admission price?
(see TVOS 20:45 post yesterday to see how perhaps there could be something we could do about away attendance, and how what we actually did seems to have been counter-productive. The evidence to date is at worst highly supportive, but probably by season's end, proof positive) | |
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| Season Tickets on 15:28 - Feb 22 with 2357 views | D_Alien |
| Season Tickets on 15:07 - Feb 22 by DaleiLama |
Disconnect certainly. You're also surely right too, but .......
....... as TS points out above, fans pay to watch, employees get paid to do the job.
And they aren't on the end of a KH rant accusing them of being bad employees (?!?)
And they didn't get a pay cut (fans got an increased admission price)
And if the performance on the pitch is sub-standard for whatever reason, they'll still get paid again come Monday morning.
And they may not stay employed by the club, fans don't change allegiance
Were I to put my mind to it for longer, I'm sure I could add to the list.
In terms of goodwill, the disconnect could be bridged by at least some of the suggestions being tried. You've got to be in it to win it. (See Grimsby fan comment on advertising thread).
#Sigh |
All of which is a shame, especially given that our chairman is first and foremost a fan.
It's a difference of mindset. We can see where their skewed logic might be coming from... can they see our logic? |  |
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| Season Tickets on 15:35 - Feb 22 with 2327 views | DaleiLama |
| Season Tickets on 15:28 - Feb 22 by D_Alien |
All of which is a shame, especially given that our chairman is first and foremost a fan.
It's a difference of mindset. We can see where their skewed logic might be coming from... can they see our logic? |
And to compound the shame, most of the suggestions on here are what fans believe (or at least suggest) to be in the best interests of the club and like dominoes could = more income, more fan support, better match-day atmosphere, better performance on the pitch, bigger purse to spend, more success.
None of the above is guaranteed, but is what we are doing really working? The evidence seems to suggest not. What was the old quote about the definition of madness and expecting a different outcome?
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| Season Tickets on 16:43 - Feb 22 with 2241 views | 1mark1 |
| Season Tickets on 12:32 - Feb 22 by 49thseason |
The scale of the problem with our attendances becomes stark when you consider that the average home attendance for the division is 7107. Our average is currently 3104 - some 205 less than last season. In cash terms, at an average of £18 per ticket, we have £1.6m less income from the turnstiles than clubs attracting the average attendance.
With 46,561 people attending Spotland so far this season, a £2 per head increase has added £93,122 to turnover or by extrapolation £142,784 by the end of the season.
The loss of 205 people x £18 x 23 games reduces this by £84,870 giving an overall £57,914 increase in revenue, If you also deduct a couple of pounds per lost supporter per game for food and drink, programme, shop takings, bars, raffle etc another £9430 has been lost from revenue, this does not take into account people who bought season tickets rather than pay the £2 increase on the day. If there were 100 extra season tickets sold, the revenue reduction could be £115 per person per season taking £11,500 off revenue.
A good guess would be that the £2 price increase has added maybe £35k - £40k to the coffers overall but has also resulted in a 6.9% fall in attendance which if replicated for just 10 seasons would leave us with no supporters attending games!
Clearly this is not a sustainable business model and there needs to be a major re-think around attracting people to Spotland and the price they are expected to pay for L1 football.
Overall we fall behind clubs getting average L1 gates by £72,054 every game. Or put another way, we take £302,508 less than Sheffield United every game.
All prices calculated on £18 per ticket. |
Good post.
Does anyone know what the average spend per supporter is per game? I wouldn't be surprised if the average is higher than £2 and more like £3 or £4 , in which case the higher admission takings have not made much if any extra overall takings.
Has there been a decline in Golden Gamble takings, or other takInge like in the club shop?
When we own the whole ground, then all of the takings from all of the refreshment bars and all alcohol sales will come to the club, and therefore it will be of great benefit to have higher attendances even if that means sacrificing some income from individual fans. [Post edited 22 Feb 2016 18:10]
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| Season Tickets on 18:10 - Feb 22 with 2143 views | dalebolt |
Surely in this day and age it can't cost too much to implement a season card! Maybe one turnstile in each area where the season card can be scanned in, like a lot of grounds with tickets! This would enable the cost of a season ticket to be paid monthly by direct debit say over 10 months! This I know would appeal to a lot of fans, me included! As I attend games with my two sons, I have felt the pinch and have chosen to miss some games based purely on cost and not on the standard of football on display! To continue to pay on the gate and save for 3 season tickets is simply not an option for me! If there are 3 home games in a month that's £90 before I even buy a programme and a pie (and I like a pie). So to add another £40 per month to save for said season tickets isn't going to happen for me. |  | | |
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| Season Tickets on 18:20 - Feb 22 with 2118 views | TalkingSutty |
| Season Tickets on 18:10 - Feb 22 by dalebolt |
Surely in this day and age it can't cost too much to implement a season card! Maybe one turnstile in each area where the season card can be scanned in, like a lot of grounds with tickets! This would enable the cost of a season ticket to be paid monthly by direct debit say over 10 months! This I know would appeal to a lot of fans, me included! As I attend games with my two sons, I have felt the pinch and have chosen to miss some games based purely on cost and not on the standard of football on display! To continue to pay on the gate and save for 3 season tickets is simply not an option for me! If there are 3 home games in a month that's £90 before I even buy a programme and a pie (and I like a pie). So to add another £40 per month to save for said season tickets isn't going to happen for me. |
Not a great situation, it's never good when genuine fans are having to miss games because they can't afford the cost, pity somebody from the club can't PM you a personal message and help you and your lads out for the remainder of the season.It wouldn't cost them anything and ensure your lads stay fans for life. |  | | |
| Season Tickets on 18:22 - Feb 22 with 2111 views | rochdaleriddler |
doing nothing is not an option, if we dont try something how will we know if it will work or not. a 10 game ticket would appeal to me as i am not able to make ever game |  |
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| Season Tickets on 18:24 - Feb 22 with 2103 views | 442Dale |
| Season Tickets on 18:10 - Feb 22 by dalebolt |
Surely in this day and age it can't cost too much to implement a season card! Maybe one turnstile in each area where the season card can be scanned in, like a lot of grounds with tickets! This would enable the cost of a season ticket to be paid monthly by direct debit say over 10 months! This I know would appeal to a lot of fans, me included! As I attend games with my two sons, I have felt the pinch and have chosen to miss some games based purely on cost and not on the standard of football on display! To continue to pay on the gate and save for 3 season tickets is simply not an option for me! If there are 3 home games in a month that's £90 before I even buy a programme and a pie (and I like a pie). So to add another £40 per month to save for said season tickets isn't going to happen for me. |
If your season ticket was £100/150 and your sons' were free (presuming their u16!), would you all attend every game? |  |
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| Season Tickets on 18:26 - Feb 22 with 2097 views | dalebolt |
| Season Tickets on 18:24 - Feb 22 by 442Dale |
If your season ticket was £100/150 and your sons' were free (presuming their u16!), would you all attend every game? |
Without a doubt! | | | |
| Season Tickets on 18:39 - Feb 22 with 2067 views | robbowood |
| Season Tickets on 15:27 - Feb 22 by Luke8686 |
We are averaging about 300 less home fans this season than at the same period last season. However the figures are slightly skewed in the fact that we have played 2 more Tuesday games this season plus our TV game against Wigan which innevitably affected the gate.
Surely the Hartlepool method would work for us if marketed properly - similar stature, fanbase potential etc. They were averaging about the same crowds as us in 2010/11 when they finished 18th in League One, in the summer of 2011 they managed to sell over 5000 season tickets at £100 a pop (albeit aided with one or two marquee signings such as Nobby Solano) and managed to nearly double their average attendance the following season.
Five years later their gates have dropped a little bit but they're now a league below and still averaging 3500-4000. |
All good points - but Hartlepool don't have Man Utd and Man City (and umpteen other football league clubs) a few miles away
If we offered season tickets at £100 I think it would be a financial disaster and I say this as a season ticket holder in the Sandy
To my mind we will never get anywhere near enough "new" fans to cover the loss we would suffer if we keep the this season's prices with the current season tickets holders
No way would we sell 5000 season tickets if we gave then away free and if we offered free admission tomorrow for home fans tomorrow night I doubt if we would get 50-100 extra turning up
What are good suggestions on the other posts is the chance to buy say ten match tickets at one go and also pay for season tickets over the whole season
The vouchers to bring a friend to a match for £5 or £10 should apply to any game and not one on a cold wet Tuesday night (usually against a team near the bottom oof the table). As long as we get the extra money it shoudn't matter whether the vouchers are used when playing Bury or Colchester | | | |
| Season Tickets on 18:48 - Feb 22 with 2034 views | TalkingSutty |
| Season Tickets on 18:26 - Feb 22 by dalebolt |
Without a doubt! |
.......and buy a pie, a drink and maybe a programme? | | | |
| Season Tickets on 18:58 - Feb 22 with 2019 views | dingdangblue |
| Season Tickets on 18:39 - Feb 22 by robbowood |
All good points - but Hartlepool don't have Man Utd and Man City (and umpteen other football league clubs) a few miles away
If we offered season tickets at £100 I think it would be a financial disaster and I say this as a season ticket holder in the Sandy
To my mind we will never get anywhere near enough "new" fans to cover the loss we would suffer if we keep the this season's prices with the current season tickets holders
No way would we sell 5000 season tickets if we gave then away free and if we offered free admission tomorrow for home fans tomorrow night I doubt if we would get 50-100 extra turning up
What are good suggestions on the other posts is the chance to buy say ten match tickets at one go and also pay for season tickets over the whole season
The vouchers to bring a friend to a match for £5 or £10 should apply to any game and not one on a cold wet Tuesday night (usually against a team near the bottom oof the table). As long as we get the extra money it shoudn't matter whether the vouchers are used when playing Bury or Colchester |
Thats why it could only be based on guaranteed numbers - like Bradford and Hartlepool did. Unless we got the required numbers to make it financially viable it wouldnt be done. |  |
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| Season Tickets on 19:01 - Feb 22 with 2014 views | dalebolt |
| Season Tickets on 18:48 - Feb 22 by TalkingSutty |
.......and buy a pie, a drink and maybe a programme? |
Yeah! To be fair I would probably buy season tickets in the Sandy at this seasons prices if, as in my original post there was an option to pay over say 10 months. This would cost me £45 per month and would be affordable as opposed to the previous figures quoted! | | | |
| Season Tickets on 20:03 - Feb 22 with 1941 views | dingdangblue |
Hartlepool:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2015235/Fans-rush-buy-Hartlepo
If Dale were radical enough to attempt something different for a change it would have to be announced in the next few weeks. With all the bad press at this moment in time over affordable ticket prices it would be the ideal opportunity to get local and national press behind the story. I imagine Hartlepool were astonished with the response - but these things really snowball when they get national coverage in the media. Pricing them at £100 really was a masterstroke and it was impossible for even the most fair-weather fan not to buy one.
7 and under free
8-16 £50
Oap and Students £50
Full Price Adult £100
Based on 3000 full price Adult tickets sold. [Post edited 22 Feb 2016 20:13]
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| Season Tickets on 20:17 - Feb 22 with 1907 views | boromat |
I think this sort of thing would only become financially viable when we own the stadium even then it'd be a risk. I'd worry that £100 season tickets and we'd probably only sell 2000 - 2500. Think we sell about 1000 - 1500 now? | |
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| Season Tickets on 20:29 - Feb 22 with 1894 views | Luke8686 |
| Season Tickets on 18:39 - Feb 22 by robbowood |
All good points - but Hartlepool don't have Man Utd and Man City (and umpteen other football league clubs) a few miles away
If we offered season tickets at £100 I think it would be a financial disaster and I say this as a season ticket holder in the Sandy
To my mind we will never get anywhere near enough "new" fans to cover the loss we would suffer if we keep the this season's prices with the current season tickets holders
No way would we sell 5000 season tickets if we gave then away free and if we offered free admission tomorrow for home fans tomorrow night I doubt if we would get 50-100 extra turning up
What are good suggestions on the other posts is the chance to buy say ten match tickets at one go and also pay for season tickets over the whole season
The vouchers to bring a friend to a match for £5 or £10 should apply to any game and not one on a cold wet Tuesday night (usually against a team near the bottom oof the table). As long as we get the extra money it shoudn't matter whether the vouchers are used when playing Bury or Colchester |
Hartlepool have Newcastle (avg. attendance 50,000) Sunderland (40,000) and Middlesbrough (25,000) all within spitting distance. And with prices like £100 you're gonna get both floaters AND fans of other clubs coming to matches. Just think of all the armchair Man U and City fans who don't bother going to matches and fans that have been priced out of other clubs.
There clearly are people to be got at in Rochdale. We've packed out Spotland on numerous occasions in the last few years - Stoke (on a Monday night), Darlo & Leeds to name a few.
Come on Dale let's be radical for a change - if it doesn't work out then try something else but just give it a go for one season and see what happens. | | | |
| Season Tickets on 20:30 - Feb 22 with 1890 views | 442Dale |
| Season Tickets on 20:17 - Feb 22 by boromat |
I think this sort of thing would only become financially viable when we own the stadium even then it'd be a risk. I'd worry that £100 season tickets and we'd probably only sell 2000 - 2500. Think we sell about 1000 - 1500 now? |
But isn't the short term loss, knocking 100k off the playing budget maybe, worth a possible longer term gain? | |
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| Season Tickets on 20:48 - Feb 22 with 1835 views | dingdangblue |
| Season Tickets on 20:30 - Feb 22 by 442Dale |
But isn't the short term loss, knocking 100k off the playing budget maybe, worth a possible longer term gain? |
Yes it is worth it - and at £100 you are basically telling people that even if they just made it to our 5 or 6 most attractive home games they'd have value for money! Obviously we don't want this - we want to have a cracking season and the majority turn up for every game - but at £100 its a fantastic deal. I'm sure the national press would get involved and news would spread as it did with both Bradford and Hartlepool - like I said earlier - you cant buy publicly like that. | |
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| Season Tickets on 21:05 - Feb 22 with 1808 views | Dalenet |
| Season Tickets on 20:29 - Feb 22 by Luke8686 |
Hartlepool have Newcastle (avg. attendance 50,000) Sunderland (40,000) and Middlesbrough (25,000) all within spitting distance. And with prices like £100 you're gonna get both floaters AND fans of other clubs coming to matches. Just think of all the armchair Man U and City fans who don't bother going to matches and fans that have been priced out of other clubs.
There clearly are people to be got at in Rochdale. We've packed out Spotland on numerous occasions in the last few years - Stoke (on a Monday night), Darlo & Leeds to name a few.
Come on Dale let's be radical for a change - if it doesn't work out then try something else but just give it a go for one season and see what happens. |
Just not true. Hartlepool wont attract any floaters from the clubs that are at least half an hour away on a good day. They are certainly not within spitting distance. Gateshead have tried to get Newcastle fans to attend their games (2 miles away over the Tyne) and weren't successful even when Gateshead were on the verge of promotion two seasons ago
The key for me is to get local people into the habit. We should be giving all under 18s a free season ticket. And a discounted parents ticket (say £200) if they sit in the family stand area of Pearl Street with the free kids. You could even offer it in 2 instalments of £100 now and £100 in September. | | | |
| Season Tickets on 21:09 - Feb 22 with 1790 views | boromat |
| Season Tickets on 20:30 - Feb 22 by 442Dale |
But isn't the short term loss, knocking 100k off the playing budget maybe, worth a possible longer term gain? |
Yeah potentially but I think it's a smaller risk if we implement something like this after taking ownership of the stadium with all the extra income avenues that that could bring. | |
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| Season Tickets on 21:22 - Feb 22 with 1761 views | dingdangblue |
| Season Tickets on 21:09 - Feb 22 by boromat |
Yeah potentially but I think it's a smaller risk if we implement something like this after taking ownership of the stadium with all the extra income avenues that that could bring. |
Well announcing the stadium purchase and a £100 pound season ticket at the same time in the next few week's would be a marketing masterstroke! | |
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