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Have been in the US since the summer and arrived back this week and going to the game on Sat.
I have watched the carnage in the US political system, but that was evened-out in the mid-term elections. Watching the madness this morning, it looks like a Tory coup by the ERG and other right-wing nut-cases.
I am no Tory, but May has to see them off before they throw this country under the bus!
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:30 - Dec 15 with 2807 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 03:45 - Dec 15 by Jigsore
hate to be all arsey but if you're quoting things you should generally post the link. for all I know this has come from Peter Shilton's big brexit bonanza blog
I'd love this! Also, I hope we're not going to have to match the subsidies for the Welsh and Cornish who got the most EU subsidies and still voted Brexit.
Presumably the UK would have 39 billion quid to help out.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 16:14 - Dec 15 with 2674 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 22:41 - Dec 14 by loftboy
I’d go by those rules as long as it’s reciprocal, IE if we end up remaining all the money that comes out of PAYE that goes towards the EU bill is only paid by remainers
[Post edited 14 Dec 2018 22:42]
You mean the 37p in every £100 Of GDP that goes to the EU?
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 16:27 - Dec 15 with 2668 views
Don't forget the thousands of NHS doctors and nurses from the EU27.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 17:10 - Dec 15 with 2630 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 16:27 - Dec 15 by derbyhoop
We already can. How much does it bring in?
Don't forget the thousands of NHS doctors and nurses from the EU27.
Yeah they are all not coming or going home because of Brexit
Not that the hours are too much and the pay too low and the price of housing/living costs to high, not the same reason so many British nurses and doctors are leaving the NHS to work in the private sector. no, it's Brixit.
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 20:05 - Dec 14 by 2Thomas2Bowles
New figures show the NHS is paying out millions more for EU healthcare than it is getting back from EU countries.
In what one MP described as a "scandalous failure", it has emerged that the UK pays more than £670m to EU countries for Brits' healthcare abroad, while less than £50m from the EU is paid back, even though there are significantly more EU citizens in the UK than UK citizens in the EU.
Under the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) - countries can claim back health costs from other EU countries if their citizens use medical services abroad.
The new figures reveal that nearly every country claims more from the UK than the UK gets back from the rest of the EU.
For example, the UK pays France £147,685,772, but France only pays UK £6,730,292 and the UK pays Germany £25,873,954 but Germany only pays the UK £2,189,664.
Even in countries such as Poland where net migration is massively towards the UK, the discrepancy is four-fold in Poland's favour.
"The figures are astonishing - we are paying them 70 times more than they are paying us.
"We are paying our bills and they are not paying theirs
"There is meant to be a comparable system in place - but it is not being applied in this country and that means we are losing out.
"Every single country is winning against us, be it the super-efficient Swedes or Germans, or countries like Malta or Greece.
Are you aware of the demographics? Roughly 1.5m UK nationals are in the EU. A significant number are retired - although 80% work. The older generation use a disproportionate amount of healthcare. The biggest cost to the UK Treasury is Social Security and Healthcare for the elderly.
The majority of the 3.5m EU citizens in the UK are too old to require large expenditure on their Education and too young to be a drain on the Health Service.
EU citizens are substantional contributors to UK tax take.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 20:03 - Dec 15 with 2501 views
There is little doubt that, in 2018, those of us sufficiently interested, know considerably more about the UK-EU relationship, than they did in the 1st half of 2016.
How many people could have explained the CU and it's effects on trade. External tariffs are up to 50% on some meat products? And that 3rd country products will have to be checked at a Border Inspection Point? The only ones with capacity are in Zeebrugge and Rotterdam. How many people could have explained the benefits of the Single Market? How many people realised that the SM meant the 4 freedoms ( Goods, services, capital and people)? How many knew about the reciprocal element of Freedom of Movement? Clue- it doesnt just mean EU nationals can come to UK, but that UK nationals can live, work and study in 27 other countries. How many people believed that the £350m on the big red bus would go straight into the NHS? We can argue about the semantics of the wording but the implication was clear, even if it was discredited in the first week of the campaign. Sadly, a large number of people still believe that £350m per week will be going into the Health Service. How many people anticipated the £:€ rate falling 15%? Adding to inflation between mid 2016 and early 2018. How many people knew about the European Medicines Agency, which moves to Amsterdam in March, taking 900 high skilled jobs when they go? How many people knew about the EBA which moves to Paris How many knew about Euratom (nuclear fuel processing, including medicines)? How many knew about EASA (air safety). Rolls Royce will be moving their design work to Germany. Easy jet have set up a base in Austria. In a no deal scenario, no UK pilots will be licensed. Neither will aircraft maintenance. How many knew that the FSA (food safety) would need to recruit additional staff to replace functions carried out by the EFSA? How many people knew that insulin is not made in the UK? How many people could predict EU immigration falling to 74,000, the lowest for 6 years, while immigration from the Rest of the World rose to a record 273,000? How many people realised that every UK government assessment would conclude that the UK would be worse off outside the EU than staying in? How many people knew that JIT manufacturing was so important to our foreign owned car industry? And the tens of thousands likely to be affected? How many people knew about Tariff Rate Quotas? How many people knew about the Irish border? It's 500km long, with 280 crossing points, including a motorway and an express train service. How many knew that 30,000 people cross it every day? Or that it will be the EU external border, with, potentially different rules, regulations and standards on either side.
Many of those are new to me since 2016. The issues raised (and many others) show how much the UK and the EU are intertwined. So anybody claiming " the easiest deal in history" or claiming that No Deal is the best future option are not being straight with the UK electorate.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 20:18 - Dec 15 with 2486 views
A miraculous reformulation of the withdrawal agreement that will find a majority in Whitehall has failed to materialise over the weekend. Apparently Labour leadership are in conversation with DUP. Could be a motion of no confidence presented on Monday.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 02:58 - Dec 16 with 2313 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:51 - Dec 15 by jonno
Presumably the UK would have 39 billion quid to help out.
Are you talking about the £39 billion we're having to pay out to leave the EU? Not aware of £39 billion we're going to have additionally? We're also having to pay for visa waivers to visit EU countries.
Most economists, including the Treasury, are also saying that leaving the EU will have a detrimental effect on the UK economy, with one economist saying of up to 2% of GDP. The Institute of Fiscal Studies has argued that Brexit will have a detrimental effect of £70 billion on UK trade. Nor do economists think this will be made up by new trade agreements with other courntries outside the EU. Trump's US? China? Not exactly known for favouring other countries in trade deals.
I'm not particularly interested in paying more tax to provide additional subsidies to the people who got us into this mess.
But yeah Brexit means Brexit. Yeah the NHS will get £350 million more a week (haha). And we'll have our country back.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 08:46 - Dec 16 with 2222 views
Are you talking about the £39 billion we're having to pay out to leave the EU? Not aware of £39 billion we're going to have additionally? We're also having to pay for visa waivers to visit EU countries.
Most economists, including the Treasury, are also saying that leaving the EU will have a detrimental effect on the UK economy, with one economist saying of up to 2% of GDP. The Institute of Fiscal Studies has argued that Brexit will have a detrimental effect of £70 billion on UK trade. Nor do economists think this will be made up by new trade agreements with other courntries outside the EU. Trump's US? China? Not exactly known for favouring other countries in trade deals.
I'm not particularly interested in paying more tax to provide additional subsidies to the people who got us into this mess.
But yeah Brexit means Brexit. Yeah the NHS will get £350 million more a week (haha). And we'll have our country back.
Not interested in getting into an argument about Brexit. I have no idea what any impact of leaving with a no deal will have, and guess what, neither do you or anyone else because nobody has ever done it. I don't live in the UK any more and I'm completely ambivalent about it. But, from what I read the UK will save paying out 39 billion if it leaves with a no deal - that's the money I am talking about.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 08:49 - Dec 16 with 2219 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 19:17 - Dec 15 by derbyhoop
Are you aware of the demographics? Roughly 1.5m UK nationals are in the EU. A significant number are retired - although 80% work. The older generation use a disproportionate amount of healthcare. The biggest cost to the UK Treasury is Social Security and Healthcare for the elderly.
The majority of the 3.5m EU citizens in the UK are too old to require large expenditure on their Education and too young to be a drain on the Health Service.
EU citizens are substantional contributors to UK tax take.
Although that may be true the numbers are so vastly unbalanced that cannot account totally for the discrepancy.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 08:50 - Dec 16 with 2218 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 20:18 - Dec 15 by QPR_John
I've often wondered what happens to the health care In those countries if so many nurses and doctors have left their EU home nations to come to the UK
Well, from what I have seen in Cyprus, a lot of them are replaced in those countries with UK nationals. There are a lot of Brits working in hospitals here. Obviously can't speak for other EU countries.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:37 - Dec 16 with 2161 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 08:46 - Dec 16 by jonno
Not interested in getting into an argument about Brexit. I have no idea what any impact of leaving with a no deal will have, and guess what, neither do you or anyone else because nobody has ever done it. I don't live in the UK any more and I'm completely ambivalent about it. But, from what I read the UK will save paying out 39 billion if it leaves with a no deal - that's the money I am talking about.
No I don't know what's going to happen post-Brexit but I'd think that people who, you know, study this thing for a living might know a bit more about it than someone who doesn't even live here and is ambivalent about the whole thing.
And yes, don't bother getting into an argument about it because it doesn't affect you so you won't have a problem with having a shiit economy and increasing racism.
And you really think we can just have no deal, snaffle the £39 billion and continue as normal trading with EU countries? Yep, that's definitely going to happen....
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:56 - Dec 16 with 2153 views
No I don't know what's going to happen post-Brexit but I'd think that people who, you know, study this thing for a living might know a bit more about it than someone who doesn't even live here and is ambivalent about the whole thing.
And yes, don't bother getting into an argument about it because it doesn't affect you so you won't have a problem with having a shiit economy and increasing racism.
And you really think we can just have no deal, snaffle the £39 billion and continue as normal trading with EU countries? Yep, that's definitely going to happen....
Again - I'm not prepared to argue about it because I don't know enough about what will happen. There's no telling what will happen - as for the "experts", didn't they predict Armageddon if the referendum was a leave result? Doesn't appear to have happened. One thing I can say for sure, and something I think a lot of people sort of forget, is that governments, businesses etc. will mitigate and make arrangements to accommodate whatever the final outcome is, so again it's a bit pointless trying to predict what will happen because nobody knows what those arrangements will be. As for the trading thing - I assume that EU countries will still want to trade with one of their biggest trade partners. At the end of the day, money talks bullshit walks as they say.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:52 - Dec 16 with 2089 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 08:50 - Dec 16 by jonno
Well, from what I have seen in Cyprus, a lot of them are replaced in those countries with UK nationals. There are a lot of Brits working in hospitals here. Obviously can't speak for other EU countries.
So there are few vacancies in Cyprus for those returning from the UK.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:28 - Dec 16 with 2057 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:56 - Dec 16 by jonno
Again - I'm not prepared to argue about it because I don't know enough about what will happen. There's no telling what will happen - as for the "experts", didn't they predict Armageddon if the referendum was a leave result? Doesn't appear to have happened. One thing I can say for sure, and something I think a lot of people sort of forget, is that governments, businesses etc. will mitigate and make arrangements to accommodate whatever the final outcome is, so again it's a bit pointless trying to predict what will happen because nobody knows what those arrangements will be. As for the trading thing - I assume that EU countries will still want to trade with one of their biggest trade partners. At the end of the day, money talks bullshit walks as they say.
Well again, for someone who's not affected and doesn't want to argue about it, you keep, um arguing about it.
The Treasury didn't in fact predict Armageddon, just a long term decline in the UK economy. Even before the deal is enacted there's less foreign investment in the UK, the pound is down, the economy is shrinking. Of course EU countries will still trade with us but we won't be negotiating from a position of strength. And businesses in a global market can mitigate by relocating to a more favourable location.
But I can't be bothered to argue any more with your opinion that everything will be all right based just on: your opinion that everything will be all right.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 16:43 - Dec 16 with 2011 views
Well I'm sure the soft liberals and remoaners will get upset at this
These European countries have a short memory basically blackmailing us for wanting to leave, the only EU they faced was run by the Nazis and after that they voted against us joining up till the 70's.
They have been milking us ever since, none of them have any love for the UK, if it were not for the money and trade they get from us they would be happy for us to leave.
It's do as we say, as Cameron found out, there is little you can negotiate on and his party that rebelled and May has found out the same.
They are bulling May and she is too weak or just does not want to stand up to them, but that's what you get with a remainer.
Staying means the same but even worse as QPR John points out, they will have us by the balls, how can you ever stand your ground again.
I accept that leaving will have downsides for a while, that happens with change but to go back to just being a dog on a EU leash. dictated to and no way of escape.
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 16:43 - Dec 16 by 2Thomas2Bowles
Well I'm sure the soft liberals and remoaners will get upset at this
These European countries have a short memory basically blackmailing us for wanting to leave, the only EU they faced was run by the Nazis and after that they voted against us joining up till the 70's.
They have been milking us ever since, none of them have any love for the UK, if it were not for the money and trade they get from us they would be happy for us to leave.
It's do as we say, as Cameron found out, there is little you can negotiate on and his party that rebelled and May has found out the same.
They are bulling May and she is too weak or just does not want to stand up to them, but that's what you get with a remainer.
Staying means the same but even worse as QPR John points out, they will have us by the balls, how can you ever stand your ground again.
I accept that leaving will have downsides for a while, that happens with change but to go back to just being a dog on a EU leash. dictated to and no way of escape.
No thanks.
I've read some paranoid nonsense over the last 3 years but this is right up there. The foundation of the EU was to prevent the conflict between nations that resulted in 2 World Wars in the 20th century. De Gaulle vetoed UK applications, true but that doesn't mean the other 5 members, at the time, were against the UK. The UK, as one of the largest and wealthiest countries in the EU has been a net contributor. That contribution represents 0.37% of GDP. UK trade has significantly increased since the creation of the Single Market. It would be higher if we actually made more than we do. The EU is a rules based organisation based on principles which include the 4 freedoms. The UK had exemptions from the Euro and Schengen but the EU are not going t o change everything for 1 member country, especially one that wants to leave. It was May who set out here red lines - no hard border in Ireland, no CU, no SM, end Freedom of Movement. This red lines are incompatible with each other and as she cannot command her own party, and doesn't seem to know what she does want, it is hardly surprising that she cannot get anywhere. Leaving may have a downside. (Hooray for a sensible conclusion). According to the Government's own assessments, every Leave option will make us worse off than staying. According to Rees-Mogg, we might see the benefits n 50 years. The EU yields clout in international negotiations. Largely because of shared sovereignty, which, until 3 years ago, we were perfectly happy to be involved.
Yes, we can escape. But it comes with consequences.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 21:04 - Dec 17 with 1798 views
Ive still no idea whats best. Stay or leave. I really dont think things will be as bad as the remainers say but i also think things wasnt that bad to justify leaving. This is just turning into some sort of bitter divorce. There's going to be no winners here. Wars start for less. The uk is getting more and more divided. Its horrible to witness. Ive got zero confidence in any political party. They're all a shambles. I wont be voting.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 21:56 - Dec 17 with 1712 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 21:44 - Dec 17 by PunteR
Ive still no idea whats best. Stay or leave. I really dont think things will be as bad as the remainers say but i also think things wasnt that bad to justify leaving. This is just turning into some sort of bitter divorce. There's going to be no winners here. Wars start for less. The uk is getting more and more divided. Its horrible to witness. Ive got zero confidence in any political party. They're all a shambles. I wont be voting.
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