| Welsh Tourism 10:58 - Jul 17 with 47233 views | Dr_Winston |
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/16/huge-market-untapped-lack-of-vis
Already on its knees in recent years thanks to the Welsh Govts unnecessarily heavy Covid restrictions, refusal to deal with M4 congestion and seeming intention to actually make getting around in Wales even harder. To top that off we've still got the mooted tourist tax to come.
Is there anything in this country that they can't screw up? |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Welsh Tourism on 18:30 - Jul 23 with 1367 views | Togg |
| Welsh Tourism on 17:01 - Jul 23 by onehunglow |
Swimming in Swiss lakes like Lugano or Lucerne is different
Trust me
Swiss and Austrian weather is drier and sunnier than anywhere on Wales
Don't dismiss basic meteorology for Gawds sake
Imagine being stuck with three kids in a static in Wales now
This is what we face as parents
Kids want sunshine sand and sea primarily |
As gorgeous as parts of Wales are, Austria and Switzerland are on a different level. The most amazing landscape you will ever see. Extremely clean with proper seasons. The two most stunning countries I've ever been to. However Spain with warts and all is my favourite. |  | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 18:48 - Jul 23 with 1336 views | lifelong |
| Welsh Tourism on 17:01 - Jul 23 by onehunglow |
Swimming in Swiss lakes like Lugano or Lucerne is different
Trust me
Swiss and Austrian weather is drier and sunnier than anywhere on Wales
Don't dismiss basic meteorology for Gawds sake
Imagine being stuck with three kids in a static in Wales now
This is what we face as parents
Kids want sunshine sand and sea primarily |
You ever thought of applying for a job with the Welsh tourist board? |  | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 19:22 - Jul 23 with 1306 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Welsh Tourism on 16:12 - Jul 22 by SullutaCreturned |
Or maybe possibly, she'd have a point. An indy Wales outside both the UK and the EU with no subsidy from the rest of the UK and no support from the EU could face financial problems.
It's not something you'd entertain though is it. |
Like an abusive husband talking to the wife he beats.
London government have said this to every part of the Empire that decides to go for Indy, they have been wrong every single time.
None have ever asked to return, so perhaps London was wrong.
Wales and Scotland will match Ireland. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Welsh Tourism on 21:05 - Jul 23 with 1262 views | pencoedjack |
| Welsh Tourism on 18:30 - Jul 23 by Togg |
As gorgeous as parts of Wales are, Austria and Switzerland are on a different level. The most amazing landscape you will ever see. Extremely clean with proper seasons. The two most stunning countries I've ever been to. However Spain with warts and all is my favourite. |
Been to Austria but only Vienna.
The drive from Italy to Switzerland is something to behold the most beautiful part of the world I have ever been.
I flog Wales to every person I meet but the scenery in Switzerland is hard to beat, Mid Wales on steroids. |  | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 22:17 - Jul 23 with 1233 views | union_jack |
| Welsh Tourism on 21:05 - Jul 23 by pencoedjack |
Been to Austria but only Vienna.
The drive from Italy to Switzerland is something to behold the most beautiful part of the world I have ever been.
I flog Wales to every person I meet but the scenery in Switzerland is hard to beat, Mid Wales on steroids. |
If anyone ever gets the chance, I recommend the train trip from Munich to Innsbruck, it is simply stunning as is the road trip from Salzburg up to Munich. As has been said, on a different level completely. |  |
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| Welsh Tourism on 23:27 - Jul 23 with 1208 views | majorraglan |
I’m proud to be Welsh and want the country to succeed and prosper, but I think we need a bit of a reality check. Yes the Brynglas tunnels are an issue and I’d prioritise a new relief road as a matter of urgency, I’d also improve the infrastructure in North Wales and down through the middle in to Aberystwyth.
The top tourist attractions in the U.K. are mostly in England with a lot in London, Tower of London, Science Museum, Natural History museum, V&A, National Gallery, Tate, Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle and then look at what we have in Wales, chuck in Greenwich, St Paul’s, the shopping and then places like York, Bath, Stonehenge, the theme parks and all of a sudden a traveler from a prod has a lot to see without traveling very far. Compare that to what we have in Wales, some very good castles, Caerleon and Big Pit and that’s it. Yes we have some nice beaches, some small railways and a couple of national parks but is that enough to tempt someone from abroad to break away from the South East London scene to come here? We need to do better, a lot better but let’s not kid ourselves. There’s plenty of places with lots to offer and sadly, some have a lot more than we do. | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 06:38 - Jul 24 with 1188 views | Whiterockin |
| Welsh Tourism on 23:27 - Jul 23 by majorraglan |
I’m proud to be Welsh and want the country to succeed and prosper, but I think we need a bit of a reality check. Yes the Brynglas tunnels are an issue and I’d prioritise a new relief road as a matter of urgency, I’d also improve the infrastructure in North Wales and down through the middle in to Aberystwyth.
The top tourist attractions in the U.K. are mostly in England with a lot in London, Tower of London, Science Museum, Natural History museum, V&A, National Gallery, Tate, Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle and then look at what we have in Wales, chuck in Greenwich, St Paul’s, the shopping and then places like York, Bath, Stonehenge, the theme parks and all of a sudden a traveler from a prod has a lot to see without traveling very far. Compare that to what we have in Wales, some very good castles, Caerleon and Big Pit and that’s it. Yes we have some nice beaches, some small railways and a couple of national parks but is that enough to tempt someone from abroad to break away from the South East London scene to come here? We need to do better, a lot better but let’s not kid ourselves. There’s plenty of places with lots to offer and sadly, some have a lot more than we do. |
You put forward good points, but as an overseas tourist if you wanted what Pembrokeshire in particular offers you wouldn't come to the UK, you would go somewhere with a better climate. West Wales main tourist catchment area is the UK, we should make it as attractive as possible for visitors to come. Challenges change over time and the Senedd should be proactive in maintaining and increasing visitor levels, not burying their heads in the sand and putting more obstacles in place. |  | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 07:34 - Jul 24 with 1170 views | Togg |
| Welsh Tourism on 22:17 - Jul 23 by union_jack |
If anyone ever gets the chance, I recommend the train trip from Munich to Innsbruck, it is simply stunning as is the road trip from Salzburg up to Munich. As has been said, on a different level completely. |
Absolutely. Parts of Germany are stunning to. | | | |
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| Welsh Tourism on 11:31 - Jul 24 with 1133 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Welsh Tourism on 19:22 - Jul 23 by Kilkennyjack |
Like an abusive husband talking to the wife he beats.
London government have said this to every part of the Empire that decides to go for Indy, they have been wrong every single time.
None have ever asked to return, so perhaps London was wrong.
Wales and Scotland will match Ireland. |
You sound like someone trying to force a divorce on a happy couple. The people of Wales wish to remain part of the UK. The people of Wales voted to leave the undemocratic and bullying EU empire.
You should respect democracy and the wishes of the majority | |
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| Welsh Tourism on 12:25 - Jul 24 with 1114 views | controversial_jack |
| Welsh Tourism on 11:31 - Jul 24 by felixstowe_jack |
You sound like someone trying to force a divorce on a happy couple. The people of Wales wish to remain part of the UK. The people of Wales voted to leave the undemocratic and bullying EU empire.
You should respect democracy and the wishes of the majority |
To be really democratic, we should have another vote on returning. A once in a lifetime vote is not democratic | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 12:33 - Jul 24 with 1102 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Welsh Tourism on 19:22 - Jul 23 by Kilkennyjack |
Like an abusive husband talking to the wife he beats.
London government have said this to every part of the Empire that decides to go for Indy, they have been wrong every single time.
None have ever asked to return, so perhaps London was wrong.
Wales and Scotland will match Ireland. |
it's absolutely nothing like an abusive husband, what a childish analogy. The people of Wales (the vast majority) do not want indy.
You can shout otherwise as much as you want but any claim you make that people of Wales want to leave the Union is a blatant lie.
Other countries, those ex of Empire, they have vastly different circumstances. | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 13:44 - Jul 24 with 1077 views | Boundy |
| Welsh Tourism on 12:25 - Jul 24 by controversial_jack |
To be really democratic, we should have another vote on returning. A once in a lifetime vote is not democratic |
Can you give an example of a "truly democratic" decision being overturned because the losing side , well lost . I can think of one , one which we"ve paid the price for for twenty + years | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Welsh Tourism on 13:50 - Jul 24 with 1070 views | Whiterockin |
| Welsh Tourism on 12:25 - Jul 24 by controversial_jack |
To be really democratic, we should have another vote on returning. A once in a lifetime vote is not democratic |
I'll take that if you give us another vote on devolution. I voted for devolution, this time would be different. | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 14:52 - Jul 24 with 1035 views | johnlangy |
| Welsh Tourism on 09:54 - Jul 22 by felixstowe_jack |
Wales gets £120 per person for every £100 spent in England under the Barnett formula
Can you actually provide any evidence that this is untrue? |
Only just picked up on this felix.
No I can't provide evidence it's untrue because it isn't. My initial response though is 'so what'. The Barnett Formula is just a formula to calculate relative needs wherever you live in the UK. It's always been the case that the cost of providing services to people is more expensive in rural areas than in urban areas. That applied before 1979 and has applied since 1979 when the Formula was introduced.
England, compared with Wales, is a far more densely populated country so providing NHS services for example is substantially cheaper generally. But there'd also be large differences between urban and rural areas in England. That's hardly a surprise.
You said yet again 'Wales already gets £3000 more per person than England as you well know yet Drakeford still manages to squander it'. As usual you are referring to the so called Fiscal Deficit Wales supposedly has. And once again i'll refer you to the report by Professor John Doyle on the subject. He confirmed that if Wales became an Independent Nation the 'real' deficit would be around £2.6 billion. The numbers are shown in his report. And to make it easy for people to understand there's a youtube video explaining it titled 'What is Cymru's deficit - Welsh Independence'.
Your repeated statements about the £3000 per head extra that Wales gets leads me to believe that you haven't bothered to read the report or looked at the video. Because you've never refuted the numbers and you've never explained that they're wrong.
The numbers in the video are either right or wrong. There isn't a third option. So if you looked at it you may be able to show that they're wrong. On the other hand you may not be able to explain why they're wrong and that would mean that all your claims about Wales being a financial basket case are wrong. Are you afraid that may be the case ? That you're wrong ?
And Professor Doyle bases his report on figures from the Office for National Statistics which is the UK’s largest independent producer of official statistics and the recognised national statistical institute of the UK. | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 16:29 - Jul 24 with 1012 views | SullutaCreturned |
I won't dispute what Doyle says but his report, is it possible he could be wrong?
I won't dispute his facts or figures but I will say that what happens if we went indy is an unknown, we can't rely on the economic situation being the same. We don't know what will happen at the border, we don't know if any businesses wll leave Wales. Then we know we need a lot of infrastructure spending, if we actually are 2.6 billion in deficit it's not that bad I guess BUT where do we get the money from to develop what we need?
A newly indy Wales has no credit rating, the interest we'd pay on borrowing could be crippling. And what if we end up with a hard border because does anyone trust that the English government wouldn't be childish enough to play hardball and do to us what the EU did to the UK on brexit?
Even then, if everything went well what about trade agreements? We wouldn't have any and our membership of the EU, assuming we applied, could take a decade to be approved because of the Copenhagen criteria.
And after all of that, we live in a poor country where the politicians want to increase their number, a country that has 22 local authorities where 5/6 would do, where would we end up?
This is why I want to remain in the union. if people believed the UK, the worlds 5th largest economy at the time, couldn't survive outside the EU then what hope for Wales outside the UK AND the EU? | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 17:54 - Jul 24 with 981 views | Dr_Winston |
The idea that Wales should be independent and then join the EU baffles me. If you think Wales doesn't have much of a say now, imagine what it would be like as a tiny voice in Europe as opposed to a much bigger one within the UK. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Welsh Tourism on 18:17 - Jul 24 with 958 views | Flashberryjack |
| Welsh Tourism on 13:50 - Jul 24 by Whiterockin |
I'll take that if you give us another vote on devolution. I voted for devolution, this time would be different. |
Absolutely |  |
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| Welsh Tourism on 18:29 - Jul 24 with 948 views | johnlangy |
| Welsh Tourism on 16:29 - Jul 24 by SullutaCreturned |
I won't dispute what Doyle says but his report, is it possible he could be wrong?
I won't dispute his facts or figures but I will say that what happens if we went indy is an unknown, we can't rely on the economic situation being the same. We don't know what will happen at the border, we don't know if any businesses wll leave Wales. Then we know we need a lot of infrastructure spending, if we actually are 2.6 billion in deficit it's not that bad I guess BUT where do we get the money from to develop what we need?
A newly indy Wales has no credit rating, the interest we'd pay on borrowing could be crippling. And what if we end up with a hard border because does anyone trust that the English government wouldn't be childish enough to play hardball and do to us what the EU did to the UK on brexit?
Even then, if everything went well what about trade agreements? We wouldn't have any and our membership of the EU, assuming we applied, could take a decade to be approved because of the Copenhagen criteria.
And after all of that, we live in a poor country where the politicians want to increase their number, a country that has 22 local authorities where 5/6 would do, where would we end up?
This is why I want to remain in the union. if people believed the UK, the worlds 5th largest economy at the time, couldn't survive outside the EU then what hope for Wales outside the UK AND the EU? |
Fair comment Cat. He based his calculations on the situation as it is now which I suppose is all he could do. No one can predict what may or may not happen if Wales went Indy. But just as some things could prove difficult other things could be better than anticipated.
You mention about a possible hard border and not trusting the then English government not to be childish. If Wales did go Indy it's more than likely that Scotland will already be there and maybe the NI situation will have been resolved with a united Ireland. If you think then that of the 55 million or so people living in England 20/30%, maybe more, will have Welsh, Scottish or Irish ancestry. What would happen to the sitting government at the following election if they were to go down that route.
Anyone can be wrong, that's just the nature of things. All you can do at any one time is base your findings on the best available stats. | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 18:49 - Jul 24 with 930 views | majorraglan |
Funding is complicated and far from straight forward, based on the most recent figures I’ve seen (2020) the difference between England and Wales was around £1300 per person, however Northern Ireland and Scotland both received a lot more than England and Wales.
The Barnett formula allocates spending in Wales according to population, whereas in England the funding is allocated on a needs basis. The funding formula means areas like the North East and North West get higher levels of payments (above the English average and similar to Wales) as they’ve got more socio economic issues where as the more prosperous areas get less.
The Holtham Commission which was set up by Rhodri Morgan in 2010 to examine the issue of funding found that Wales would have more money if funding was allocated based on socio economic needs (similar to the way the needs of Norther England are calculated and extra cash allocated to the north east and north west). In 2012 the U.K. government stated they would consider the issues raised and the broader principles of the report when they had addressed the fiscal priority of the time — addressing the deficit. As far as I aware the can was kicked down the road and the matter has never been addressed. | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 20:03 - Jul 24 with 911 views | Flashberryjack |
| Welsh Tourism on 18:49 - Jul 24 by majorraglan |
Funding is complicated and far from straight forward, based on the most recent figures I’ve seen (2020) the difference between England and Wales was around £1300 per person, however Northern Ireland and Scotland both received a lot more than England and Wales.
The Barnett formula allocates spending in Wales according to population, whereas in England the funding is allocated on a needs basis. The funding formula means areas like the North East and North West get higher levels of payments (above the English average and similar to Wales) as they’ve got more socio economic issues where as the more prosperous areas get less.
The Holtham Commission which was set up by Rhodri Morgan in 2010 to examine the issue of funding found that Wales would have more money if funding was allocated based on socio economic needs (similar to the way the needs of Norther England are calculated and extra cash allocated to the north east and north west). In 2012 the U.K. government stated they would consider the issues raised and the broader principles of the report when they had addressed the fiscal priority of the time — addressing the deficit. As far as I aware the can was kicked down the road and the matter has never been addressed. |
I've seen how badly Wales has been run since devolution, fancy another Drakeford anyone ?
Anybody that still votes for Indy must be absolutely crazy. | |
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| Welsh Tourism on 21:14 - Jul 24 with 869 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Welsh Tourism on 18:29 - Jul 24 by johnlangy |
Fair comment Cat. He based his calculations on the situation as it is now which I suppose is all he could do. No one can predict what may or may not happen if Wales went Indy. But just as some things could prove difficult other things could be better than anticipated.
You mention about a possible hard border and not trusting the then English government not to be childish. If Wales did go Indy it's more than likely that Scotland will already be there and maybe the NI situation will have been resolved with a united Ireland. If you think then that of the 55 million or so people living in England 20/30%, maybe more, will have Welsh, Scottish or Irish ancestry. What would happen to the sitting government at the following election if they were to go down that route.
Anyone can be wrong, that's just the nature of things. All you can do at any one time is base your findings on the best available stats. |
Yes. I'll admit things could go much better than expected.
I cannot predict what those of our ancestry would do or what would happen but voters mostly vote for their own best outcome so maybe nothing would happen? Worst case, they lose the election.
What about borrowing? Infrastructure? Effect on business? | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 21:28 - Jul 24 with 854 views | pencoedjack |
| Welsh Tourism on 21:14 - Jul 24 by SullutaCreturned |
Yes. I'll admit things could go much better than expected.
I cannot predict what those of our ancestry would do or what would happen but voters mostly vote for their own best outcome so maybe nothing would happen? Worst case, they lose the election.
What about borrowing? Infrastructure? Effect on business? |
‘Most voters mostly vote for their own best outcome’ except for Wales where Labour have been voted in for over a 100 years.
As for democracy we should have a vote to see if we want independence or close the Senedd & move government back to London.
The Indy’s don’t agree with this as they know how the result would turn out | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 21:35 - Jul 24 with 833 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Welsh Tourism on 21:28 - Jul 24 by pencoedjack |
‘Most voters mostly vote for their own best outcome’ except for Wales where Labour have been voted in for over a 100 years.
As for democracy we should have a vote to see if we want independence or close the Senedd & move government back to London.
The Indy’s don’t agree with this as they know how the result would turn out |
No, sorry but in Wales the minority vote Labour in as most voters completely ignore the Senedd. They have never gooten more than a 49.6% turnout. The current Welsh government were voted in by roughly 20% of the vote but that's democracy for you and if you don't vote you shouldn't moan.
I fully agree, we should have a referendum with ALL options included, lets see what the people really want. | | | |
| Welsh Tourism on 21:36 - Jul 24 with 832 views | Dr_Winston |
Sadly I suspect that any "Close down the Senedd" referendum would result in the same outcome as most Senedd elections. There are far more people who would prefer to maintain the Status Quo, no matter how utterly useless it is, than vote for genuine change. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Welsh Tourism on 21:50 - Jul 24 with 806 views | Whiterockin |
| Welsh Tourism on 21:36 - Jul 24 by Dr_Winston |
Sadly I suspect that any "Close down the Senedd" referendum would result in the same outcome as most Senedd elections. There are far more people who would prefer to maintain the Status Quo, no matter how utterly useless it is, than vote for genuine change. |
If there was even a sniff of a referendum you would see a massive change in Senedd policies. | | | |
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