| Another Brexit thread 08:27 - Aug 5 with 15264 views | waynekerr55 |
Genuine questions which I feel deserve a thread of their own
What made you vote leave or remain?
Based on the facts now, would you change your decision?
I voted remain as I wasn't convinced by either sides argument so I stuck with the status quo.
I'd stick to my decision, simply because there is no tangible evidence that leaving sorts us out in the short to medium term. |  |
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| Another Brexit thread on 16:47 - Aug 6 with 1103 views | Highjack |
| Another Brexit thread on 16:29 - Aug 6 by londonlisa2001 |
“Parliament then endorsed the decision of the Referendum by triggering Article 50. ”
Apart from they didn’t. |
They didn’t? |  |
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| Another Brexit thread on 16:50 - Aug 6 with 1096 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Another Brexit thread on 16:41 - Aug 6 by westwalesed |
Fair enough, I shall be more precise in the future!
But I think people know what I was trying to say ;) |
No, it’s not semantics though. It really is a very important difference when extrapolating what they have given authority for. They haven’t at any point given authority for leaving without a deal. Even though people like Rees Mogg say they have. If you value democracy, and our parliamentary democracy, it’s a really important point. |  | | |
| Another Brexit thread on 16:51 - Aug 6 with 1095 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Another Brexit thread on 16:47 - Aug 6 by Highjack |
They didn’t? |
No. | | | |
| Another Brexit thread on 16:54 - Aug 6 with 1090 views | longlostjack |
| Another Brexit thread on 16:23 - Aug 6 by westwalesed |
As I see it, and this is just a personal opinion of a Leaver (I'm not trying to change minds here), is that since the result of the Referendum in 2016 our entire Political Class as a whole has abjectly failed to implement the result of the Referendum.
Parliament devolved this decision to the people as soon as they legislated to have a Referendum.
Parliament then endorsed the decision of the Referendum by triggering Article 50. They knew that the timeframe was two years, or we were out on WTO terms.
This was backed up when both the main parties campaigned to respect the Referendum result in the GE in 2017.
There was then a concerted effort by some Remainers to openly overturn the result, by some Remainers who accepted the result to produce a deal which looked like leaving but was too much like remaining to satisfy the ERG wing of the Tories who themselves would not budge from their view of Brexit.
The EU knew all this. They exploited our disunity in Parliament by presenting us with a deal which was non-negotiable and in my view was designed to be such a bad deal for the UK that we would reconsider the whole thing. They played a blinder.
The Conservative Party couldn't decide what it wanted.
The Labour Party were attempting to trigger an election.
The Libs were openly refusing to accept the result
And the Nationalists were doing the same to further their aim of the breakup of the UK.
No-one, as I can see it, was willing to shift in order to fulfill the will of the people which is what they were, on the whole, elected to do.
Their job was to was to Leave, end of. Yes 48% voted to Remain, I get that, but you have to have the losers consent in a Democracy or you don't live in a Democracy. It really is that simple.
Now that they have made a total Horlicks of it, the only option left is to leave on WTO terms in October. That is the only thing left in law. And if that is not followed through - hopefully with a mutually beneficial deal, then I think we are in incredibly dangerous times in terms of our Democracy. I don't see how anyone really, in their heart of hearts can say we live in one. |
It never ceases to amaze me how petty Tory Party divisions over Europe have dragged the UK into this sorry mess. |  |
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| Another Brexit thread on 17:05 - Aug 6 with 1077 views | Highjack |
They didn’t endorse the result of the referendum by giving the PM their consent to trigger the leaving process. | |
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| Another Brexit thread on 17:10 - Aug 6 with 1074 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Another Brexit thread on 17:05 - Aug 6 by Highjack |
They didn’t endorse the result of the referendum by giving the PM their consent to trigger the leaving process. |
They gave the PM authority to trigger article 50 at an unspecified date. That is not the same as them triggering article 50,
In fact, it is quite an important distinction. | | | |
| Another Brexit thread on 17:11 - Aug 6 with 1073 views | waynekerr55 |
| Another Brexit thread on 16:23 - Aug 6 by westwalesed |
As I see it, and this is just a personal opinion of a Leaver (I'm not trying to change minds here), is that since the result of the Referendum in 2016 our entire Political Class as a whole has abjectly failed to implement the result of the Referendum.
Parliament devolved this decision to the people as soon as they legislated to have a Referendum.
Parliament then endorsed the decision of the Referendum by triggering Article 50. They knew that the timeframe was two years, or we were out on WTO terms.
This was backed up when both the main parties campaigned to respect the Referendum result in the GE in 2017.
There was then a concerted effort by some Remainers to openly overturn the result, by some Remainers who accepted the result to produce a deal which looked like leaving but was too much like remaining to satisfy the ERG wing of the Tories who themselves would not budge from their view of Brexit.
The EU knew all this. They exploited our disunity in Parliament by presenting us with a deal which was non-negotiable and in my view was designed to be such a bad deal for the UK that we would reconsider the whole thing. They played a blinder.
The Conservative Party couldn't decide what it wanted.
The Labour Party were attempting to trigger an election.
The Libs were openly refusing to accept the result
And the Nationalists were doing the same to further their aim of the breakup of the UK.
No-one, as I can see it, was willing to shift in order to fulfill the will of the people which is what they were, on the whole, elected to do.
Their job was to was to Leave, end of. Yes 48% voted to Remain, I get that, but you have to have the losers consent in a Democracy or you don't live in a Democracy. It really is that simple.
Now that they have made a total Horlicks of it, the only option left is to leave on WTO terms in October. That is the only thing left in law. And if that is not followed through - hopefully with a mutually beneficial deal, then I think we are in incredibly dangerous times in terms of our Democracy. I don't see how anyone really, in their heart of hearts can say we live in one. |
This is well written and thoughtful, thanks Ed. However I terms of democracy, the MPs first duty is that to the national interest, then their constituents. That's where I disagree (respectfully) with what you said. It's quite clear that the leave campaigners have been disingenuous at best; none of their claims stack up.
I also share some of the concerns long term. However, for me this whole thing has shone a light on our MPs and their scapegoating of things when they have the power to stop it (see Thameslink contract, benefits after 3 months, cheap labour and border control to name a few). [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 17:14]
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| Another Brexit thread on 17:35 - Aug 6 with 1044 views | CwmafanJack |
Voted leave but would vote leave this time, I'm one of the minority in plaid who wants true independence outside the uk and the eu.
Genuinely have no idea what will happen 31st of October will there be a purge after midnight or will the world just keep on turning who knows. | |
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| Another Brexit thread on 17:48 - Aug 6 with 1027 views | costalotta |
| Another Brexit thread on 13:08 - Aug 6 by Highjack |
Ironically it was the Lib Dems who first campaigned for a referendum on Europe. Nick Clegg and Ed Davey stormed out of the commons because the Speaker refused their bill. They were in power for 5 of the 9 years too. |
That maybe true but is not relevant to the point being made which is it’s a Tory internal fight which as spilled out. It was perpetuated by the myths BJ used to right about blah blah.
Yes they were in power for 5 years as you sa pay and we’re rightly hammered in the ‘15 election. |  | | |
| Another Brexit thread on 17:56 - Aug 6 with 1019 views | Highjack |
| Another Brexit thread on 17:35 - Aug 6 by CwmafanJack |
Voted leave but would vote leave this time, I'm one of the minority in plaid who wants true independence outside the uk and the eu.
Genuinely have no idea what will happen 31st of October will there be a purge after midnight or will the world just keep on turning who knows. |
The remainers must dread us actually leaving because when life goes on as normal project fear won’t have much effect, not that it does anyway. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 17:56]
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| Another Brexit thread on 18:02 - Aug 6 with 1015 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Another Brexit thread on 17:35 - Aug 6 by CwmafanJack |
Voted leave but would vote leave this time, I'm one of the minority in plaid who wants true independence outside the uk and the eu.
Genuinely have no idea what will happen 31st of October will there be a purge after midnight or will the world just keep on turning who knows. |
The world will keep on turning.
All movements of goods will be frozen in and out of the country including medicine and food until it is border checked. Emergency measures kick in to bring in essential products - medicine is ranked number 1 on the list. Food is number 3 from memory. | | | |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:06 - Aug 6 with 1010 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Another Brexit thread on 17:56 - Aug 6 by Highjack |
The remainers must dread us actually leaving because when life goes on as normal project fear won’t have much effect, not that it does anyway. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 17:56]
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There really isn’t a single expert that knows more than you is there. Not the heads of the BMA, food suppliers, water companies, no one.
Why the hell are they spending £2bn to stockpile medicines and hire 500 extra border officials (on top of the billions already being spent)? They should have asked you for your advice. | | | |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:07 - Aug 6 with 1010 views | Gowerjack |
| Another Brexit thread on 10:17 - Aug 6 by BryanSwan |
I voted leave the first time round, and would probably do so again. The whole of politics needs a drastic shake up, nobody at the top tables whether in the UK or EU represents and of the real people of the UK.
The status quo of contantly getting poorer and saying thank you convinced me to leave, how much worse can thing get? |
Mince. |  |
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| Another Brexit thread on 18:10 - Aug 6 with 1006 views | Highjack |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:06 - Aug 6 by londonlisa2001 |
There really isn’t a single expert that knows more than you is there. Not the heads of the BMA, food suppliers, water companies, no one.
Why the hell are they spending £2bn to stockpile medicines and hire 500 extra border officials (on top of the billions already being spent)? They should have asked you for your advice. |
They should have. I’m shocked they didn’t to be honest. | |
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| Another Brexit thread on 18:16 - Aug 6 with 1002 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:10 - Aug 6 by Highjack |
They should have. I’m shocked they didn’t to be honest. |
You’re the equivalent of one of those utter tw*ts that refuses to leave their house when the emergency services are telling them a hurricane is on its way and then expects someone to come and rescue them when it all goes wrong. | | | |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:30 - Aug 6 with 979 views | Highjack |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:16 - Aug 6 by londonlisa2001 |
You’re the equivalent of one of those utter tw*ts that refuses to leave their house when the emergency services are telling them a hurricane is on its way and then expects someone to come and rescue them when it all goes wrong. |
I’d definitely leave in the event of a hurricane. I don’t know where you get these mad delusions from. | |
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| Another Brexit thread on 18:30 - Aug 6 with 977 views | Highjack |
Hurricanes can be quite dangerous. | |
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| Another Brexit thread on 18:43 - Aug 6 with 962 views | sherpajacob |
| Another Brexit thread on 16:38 - Aug 6 by londonlisa2001 |
But that’s not what you said. You said parliament had triggered it, when they didn’t. They gave an authority to trigger it, without any specified date.
It’s quite an important difference. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 16:40]
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Never forget that the vote followed the Miller case, which came about because a minority Tory government wanted to invoke A50 without a,parliamentary vote.
"Taking back control" |  |
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| Another Brexit thread on 18:46 - Aug 6 with 959 views | bluey_the_blue |
I've never worked out what Gina Miller's angle is.
I don't buy all her spiel one bit. | | | |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:49 - Aug 6 with 958 views | waynekerr55 |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:46 - Aug 6 by bluey_the_blue |
I've never worked out what Gina Miller's angle is.
I don't buy all her spiel one bit. |
No pun intended with the use of 'spiel'?  | |
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| Another Brexit thread on 18:50 - Aug 6 with 957 views | Highjack |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:46 - Aug 6 by bluey_the_blue |
I've never worked out what Gina Miller's angle is.
I don't buy all her spiel one bit. |
She’s getting paid massive amounts of money. | |
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| Another Brexit thread on 18:54 - Aug 6 with 951 views | sherpajacob |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:46 - Aug 6 by bluey_the_blue |
I've never worked out what Gina Miller's angle is.
I don't buy all her spiel one bit. |
Are you saying you don't want parliament to be sovereign? | |
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| Another Brexit thread on 18:55 - Aug 6 with 944 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:54 - Aug 6 by sherpajacob |
Are you saying you don't want parliament to be sovereign? |
Absolutely.
My spidey-sense is tingling that her motives aren't those she's making public. | | | |
| Another Brexit thread on 19:11 - Aug 6 with 919 views | Flashberryjack |
| Another Brexit thread on 18:30 - Aug 6 by Highjack |
I’d definitely leave in the event of a hurricane. I don’t know where you get these mad delusions from. |
"You utter tw*t"  |  |
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| Another Brexit thread on 19:36 - Aug 6 with 893 views | westwalesed |
| Another Brexit thread on 16:50 - Aug 6 by londonlisa2001 |
No, it’s not semantics though. It really is a very important difference when extrapolating what they have given authority for. They haven’t at any point given authority for leaving without a deal. Even though people like Rees Mogg say they have. If you value democracy, and our parliamentary democracy, it’s a really important point. |
I respectfully disagree Lisa.
As soon as Parliament votes to give the authority for the PM to trigger Articke 50, they should know what that means. They should have been aware that it meant if the negotiations fail after two years we leave on WTO terms. I don’t see how they could fail to know that? They might not have wanted it, who dies, but it was a possibility! | |
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