| Celar 21:38 - Sep 17 with 10756 views | hopekillsyou |
Is he underwhelming or am I missing something?
I’d really like to be impressed but I’m struggling. |  | | |  |
| Celar on 11:53 - Sep 18 with 2470 views | CateLeBonR |
I thought he showed signs of improvement in his overall play, movement and fitness yesterday but it’s difficult to judge at this stage. 5/10.
*Edit. Which reminds me no player ratings this week? Also I didn’t notice any ‘Pics from yesterday’ from Sheffield Weds on Saturday. Can’t find the staff these days ;) [Post edited 18 Sep 11:57]
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| Celar on 13:30 - Sep 18 with 2224 views | lassel |
Whilst I’m sure nobody cared what I think, it does seem that people fundamentally misunderstand Celar’s game.
He’s never going to be the guy running the channels off defender shoulders to get in behind, his game is entirely about getting to the penalty spot asap and being alive in the box.
Take some time and truly watch his movement in the box and it’s night and day compared to what we have had before, he’s constantly losing his marker and getting himself into space for the cutback and has already on several occasions gotten on the end of set pieces into the box by being alive and on his toes. Contrast with Dykes who was consistently on his heels and literally never got across his man to the front post to meet crosses.
To this extent he is completely unsuited to what we see as this QPR team as we always spend 6 million years fart assing about before getting the ball into the box and on the rare occasions we break and create an overload there has consistently been a lack of composure to make the right decision for the past few years. | | | |
| Celar on 13:41 - Sep 18 with 2177 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Celar on 10:29 - Sep 18 by bosh67 |
Just to re-remind people that most fans screamed and moaned that Frey was cack until this season. Now he has found his feet and confidence. I feel Celar will do the same. As I've said several times before the first handful of times I watched Les Ferdinand I turned round to my dad and said, this guy is never going to make it at this level. I'm not saying Celar will be anything like Ferdinand but I really hope he proves a lot of fans wrong and comes good. You don't score 40 goals in 90 games for your previous club and have nothing, even if that is a level below this. |
This is a good post.
Frey not the only one either. Barbet was castigated on here for over a year. JCS written off this time last year. Faurlin deemed too lightweight early on.
Being a striker is the hardest position. You have to be scoring. Coming in from another country is even harder. Look at Latte Lath at Boro last season. 4 goals in his first 15 games. 11 in his last 14. It can take time. Last night he was alone against a back 5, one of whom is currently England's best defender.
Even allowing for that he got into positions to score two goals. Both, in the end, not great headers. but as lassel says, his movement in the box is good.
I think criticism is valid, but so is patience. It's foolhardy, even if you end up being right, to make hard and fast decisions now.
Madsen too needs to improve and adapt, but the quality is there, as seen with the move just before our goal last night. He's very languid, so some fans will never take to him, but there's quality there. |  |
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| Celar on 13:51 - Sep 18 with 2148 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Celar on 13:30 - Sep 18 by lassel |
Whilst I’m sure nobody cared what I think, it does seem that people fundamentally misunderstand Celar’s game.
He’s never going to be the guy running the channels off defender shoulders to get in behind, his game is entirely about getting to the penalty spot asap and being alive in the box.
Take some time and truly watch his movement in the box and it’s night and day compared to what we have had before, he’s constantly losing his marker and getting himself into space for the cutback and has already on several occasions gotten on the end of set pieces into the box by being alive and on his toes. Contrast with Dykes who was consistently on his heels and literally never got across his man to the front post to meet crosses.
To this extent he is completely unsuited to what we see as this QPR team as we always spend 6 million years fart assing about before getting the ball into the box and on the rare occasions we break and create an overload there has consistently been a lack of composure to make the right decision for the past few years. |
Excellent post.
Jim Frayling made similar points on the recent LFW Patreon and I agree with you both. |  |
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| Celar on 15:24 - Sep 18 with 2004 views | TheChef |
| Celar on 11:35 - Sep 18 by nix |
He's not a hold up man for certain.
What I do think is we need to make more space in the penalty area. When Chair comes back and we've got him and two of Andersen/Dembele/Smyth occupying the other two forward spots other teams' defenders won't be able to crowd out the pen so much because he is dangerous from long distance and they need a couple of players on him.
At the moment he's barely had a chance to take any shots so it's hard to rate him at all. Frey is a different kind of player much better at creating his own space with his physicality rather than relying on others to create pockets of space.
One thing I do think is that we've got a bit shy about shooting. It's all a bit 'after you' , 'no after you' or 'let's just do one more pass' and then finally give the ball away. |
I blame fkin Guardiola for the unwillingness for footballers to shoot on goal these days.
I attended three games in a week (yes I know lucky me!) - England, Leeds (don't ask) and last night. At every game you had players in decent range to have a go at goal, the crowd screaming "SHOOOOOOT", I don't think one player did.
It's always one more fkin pass.
AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH |  |
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| Celar on 15:56 - Sep 18 with 1937 views | Pdog |
We know that the way we set up our CF is going to be isolated as f**k. Unless we're dominating games, we need them to single handedly bulldoze past two center half's a la Armstrong / Frey. Celar is not the guy for that and doesn't look close to winning one of those hopeful balls, therefore he has to bring other qualities. Goals.
How will he score goals? By getting minutes to get into the groove and on same wavelength of teammates. Those teammates are all new, even to each other, the whole front 4 was new last night. There are no established patterns of play for reference so of course it will take some time.
I'll reserve full judgment until he's had some real chances on goal, consistently misses the target, or shows no improvement after 6 months.
It's not like he's missing sitters every game, a few chances against Plymouth where granted he should have scored, but he was in there swiveling looking for it, more than could be said for some recent strikers. |  | | |
| Celar on 16:16 - Sep 18 with 1848 views | doogi10 |
| Celar on 15:56 - Sep 18 by Pdog |
We know that the way we set up our CF is going to be isolated as f**k. Unless we're dominating games, we need them to single handedly bulldoze past two center half's a la Armstrong / Frey. Celar is not the guy for that and doesn't look close to winning one of those hopeful balls, therefore he has to bring other qualities. Goals.
How will he score goals? By getting minutes to get into the groove and on same wavelength of teammates. Those teammates are all new, even to each other, the whole front 4 was new last night. There are no established patterns of play for reference so of course it will take some time.
I'll reserve full judgment until he's had some real chances on goal, consistently misses the target, or shows no improvement after 6 months.
It's not like he's missing sitters every game, a few chances against Plymouth where granted he should have scored, but he was in there swiveling looking for it, more than could be said for some recent strikers. |
We have a whole new team from last year will need a tine to really get together.
That was a strong palace team last night.
i thought celar worked hard i saw improvement in a few playes esp in the 2nd half.
we got a bit closer to there midfielde abd defenders.
marsden was the next big after the luton game.
palace are premiership team and it showed | | | |
| Celar on 16:47 - Sep 18 with 1793 views | Hooping_Mad |
| Celar on 10:29 - Sep 18 by bosh67 |
Just to re-remind people that most fans screamed and moaned that Frey was cack until this season. Now he has found his feet and confidence. I feel Celar will do the same. As I've said several times before the first handful of times I watched Les Ferdinand I turned round to my dad and said, this guy is never going to make it at this level. I'm not saying Celar will be anything like Ferdinand but I really hope he proves a lot of fans wrong and comes good. You don't score 40 goals in 90 games for your previous club and have nothing, even if that is a level below this. |
I think most said he looked over weight and would need time, most noted he was putting himself about and finding good positions. that was my memory.
Yes a few did joke, apparently if you look like a serial killer then it's allowed.
That's quite a long way from all and sundry calling him cack.
Maybe you did but I and many others didn't, do you have any examples or evidence? | |
| Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society |
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| Celar on 16:50 - Sep 18 with 1777 views | Hooping_Mad |
| Celar on 11:32 - Sep 18 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
The same people moaning about Dykes now seem to think we should have kept him!
If you watch Celars movement off the ball he is actually making the runs, the problem is the ball is either not being put through or the overhit. Cook was guilty of this several times against Plymouth.
He has pace, and clearly an eye for goal, but he has to receive the ball.
How many times yesterday did the ball go in, but was pulled back rather being fired across goal? That will be worked out on the training ground.
I think he looks decent, but we have to play to his strengths. |
If you watch his movement he looks lost, almost like he cannot communicate with his team mates.
Would you offer any examples of people slating Dykes then wanting him to stay? Haven't seen many myself..... | |
| Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society |
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| Celar on 16:56 - Sep 18 with 1731 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Celar on 16:50 - Sep 18 by Hooping_Mad |
If you watch his movement he looks lost, almost like he cannot communicate with his team mates.
Would you offer any examples of people slating Dykes then wanting him to stay? Haven't seen many myself..... |
See Lassel post above. His movement is very good. | | | |
| Celar on 16:56 - Sep 18 with 1731 views | SK_hoops |
| Celar on 13:30 - Sep 18 by lassel |
Whilst I’m sure nobody cared what I think, it does seem that people fundamentally misunderstand Celar’s game.
He’s never going to be the guy running the channels off defender shoulders to get in behind, his game is entirely about getting to the penalty spot asap and being alive in the box.
Take some time and truly watch his movement in the box and it’s night and day compared to what we have had before, he’s constantly losing his marker and getting himself into space for the cutback and has already on several occasions gotten on the end of set pieces into the box by being alive and on his toes. Contrast with Dykes who was consistently on his heels and literally never got across his man to the front post to meet crosses.
To this extent he is completely unsuited to what we see as this QPR team as we always spend 6 million years fart assing about before getting the ball into the box and on the rare occasions we break and create an overload there has consistently been a lack of composure to make the right decision for the past few years. |
As soon as I watched his highlights video, I thought, great, but we don't score goals like this. | | | |
| Celar on 16:59 - Sep 18 with 1699 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Celar on 13:30 - Sep 18 by lassel |
Whilst I’m sure nobody cared what I think, it does seem that people fundamentally misunderstand Celar’s game.
He’s never going to be the guy running the channels off defender shoulders to get in behind, his game is entirely about getting to the penalty spot asap and being alive in the box.
Take some time and truly watch his movement in the box and it’s night and day compared to what we have had before, he’s constantly losing his marker and getting himself into space for the cutback and has already on several occasions gotten on the end of set pieces into the box by being alive and on his toes. Contrast with Dykes who was consistently on his heels and literally never got across his man to the front post to meet crosses.
To this extent he is completely unsuited to what we see as this QPR team as we always spend 6 million years fart assing about before getting the ball into the box and on the rare occasions we break and create an overload there has consistently been a lack of composure to make the right decision for the past few years. |
So why did we buy him, do you think, if you and one or two others are right to say he doesn't fit our style? |  |
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| Celar on 17:02 - Sep 18 with 1688 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Celar on 23:56 - Sep 17 by Hooping_Mad |
Dykes as a man I thought was first class. |
But we don't - or rather didn't - pay to watch him as a mere man, great or otherwise. | |
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| Celar on 17:08 - Sep 18 with 1657 views | Hooping_Mad |
| Celar on 16:56 - Sep 18 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
See Lassel post above. His movement is very good. |
His movement prevented several final balls, did you actually watch the game?
He changes his mind and gets caught behind the play.
His stats are here: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1866083/Live/England-League-Cup-2024-2025-Quee
He won 2 out of 5 headers, 0 key passes, 0 tackles, 0 Dribbles.
He in effect did nothing to help us up the pitch. When he did drop back he gave away the FK that lead to the goal.
Please try to understand that just because he's playing badly now doesn't mean he won't come good. I'd love to be proved wrong but I can't see it happening.
I've nothing against him, just don't see this working on current evidence based analysis. | |
| Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society |
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| Celar on 17:09 - Sep 18 with 1645 views | Hooping_Mad |
| Celar on 17:02 - Sep 18 by stainrods_elbow |
But we don't - or rather didn't - pay to watch him as a mere man, great or otherwise. |
Agreed but we play the ball not the man, unless given reason.
Dykes carried himself like a pro should, what's wrong with saying it? | |
| Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society |
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| Celar on 17:50 - Sep 18 with 1569 views | nix |
| Celar on 15:24 - Sep 18 by TheChef |
I blame fkin Guardiola for the unwillingness for footballers to shoot on goal these days.
I attended three games in a week (yes I know lucky me!) - England, Leeds (don't ask) and last night. At every game you had players in decent range to have a go at goal, the crowd screaming "SHOOOOOOT", I don't think one player did.
It's always one more fkin pass.
AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH |
Oh god yes.
Sometimes I rant about the deification of Pep. Pep-lite is such a borefest. It might be effective but hell it's tedious.
Also by the time the crowd has urged them to actually try and get a goal, the defence has got back to block the shot. |  | | |
| Celar on 18:39 - Sep 18 with 1406 views | Logman |
The difference is that a Pep team can all pass and so it can pay dividends to play ticker-tacker until the cows come home.
At best it pays off once, maybe twice, per match for us so we need to shoot on sight. | | | |
| Celar on 18:48 - Sep 18 with 1368 views | lassel |
| Celar on 17:08 - Sep 18 by Hooping_Mad |
His movement prevented several final balls, did you actually watch the game?
He changes his mind and gets caught behind the play.
His stats are here: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1866083/Live/England-League-Cup-2024-2025-Quee
He won 2 out of 5 headers, 0 key passes, 0 tackles, 0 Dribbles.
He in effect did nothing to help us up the pitch. When he did drop back he gave away the FK that lead to the goal.
Please try to understand that just because he's playing badly now doesn't mean he won't come good. I'd love to be proved wrong but I can't see it happening.
I've nothing against him, just don't see this working on current evidence based analysis. |
Once again, you’re missing that he’s never going to be the guy to be running off the shoulder of the defender to take on a shot.
His game is getting to the penalty spot and his time here will live or die upon our ability to get the ball wide and into the box as quick as possible. | | | |
| Celar on 18:51 - Sep 18 with 1349 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Celar on 17:08 - Sep 18 by Hooping_Mad |
His movement prevented several final balls, did you actually watch the game?
He changes his mind and gets caught behind the play.
His stats are here: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1866083/Live/England-League-Cup-2024-2025-Quee
He won 2 out of 5 headers, 0 key passes, 0 tackles, 0 Dribbles.
He in effect did nothing to help us up the pitch. When he did drop back he gave away the FK that lead to the goal.
Please try to understand that just because he's playing badly now doesn't mean he won't come good. I'd love to be proved wrong but I can't see it happening.
I've nothing against him, just don't see this working on current evidence based analysis. |
That is a bit harsh. He was up against a full England International centre back to start with, and as others have said on here he is not a target man.
The reason he checks his moves is because the ball is not being played quickly, again, as others have said, it is pass, pass and another pass.
And yes, I was at the game for my sins. | | | |
| Celar on 19:06 - Sep 18 with 1273 views | Hooping_Mad |
| Celar on 18:51 - Sep 18 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
That is a bit harsh. He was up against a full England International centre back to start with, and as others have said on here he is not a target man.
The reason he checks his moves is because the ball is not being played quickly, again, as others have said, it is pass, pass and another pass.
And yes, I was at the game for my sins. |
Guéhi is decent no argument there.
His stats are his stats, I have no baring on how harsh they look.
I'm again not convinced all the players 'Pass Pass Pass' Smyth for this faults does look to whip in a ball, Paal is good when overlapping but does often cut back, Illy influence?
There was a ball over his head from Andersen last night that he just let go, that landed in the 6 yard box which unless I missed something is his area of expertise. If you were is struggling then wouldn't you chase a few balls?
The criticism is early but from a fan base that has seen an awful lots of faltering strikers in their time so probably come from some experience.
Fair play for going, but I guess we saw it differently. | |
| Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society |
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| Celar on 22:14 - Sep 18 with 1054 views | NorthantsHoop |
Think he is still adjusting to English football, if he can nick a goal even coming off the bench then his confidence will probably improve. Not that worried at the moment, as Frey seems to be first choice, but probably needs to get off the mark from the bench and to that end not seen this so far. I have been impressed with Alfie Lloyd reckon he could do a job as replacement centre forward when Frey gets taken off, he is strong and last night nearly got us back in it in last couple of minutes. |  | | |
| Celar on 22:27 - Sep 18 with 982 views | timcocking |
We need to give him more time. Can't judge him yet. |  | | |
| Celar on 22:51 - Sep 18 with 873 views | ozexile |
| Celar on 16:59 - Sep 18 by stainrods_elbow |
So why did we buy him, do you think, if you and one or two others are right to say he doesn't fit our style? |
Belk's out of date software. | | | |
| Celar on 23:22 - Sep 18 with 813 views | SydneyRs |
| Celar on 13:41 - Sep 18 by Antti_Heinola |
This is a good post.
Frey not the only one either. Barbet was castigated on here for over a year. JCS written off this time last year. Faurlin deemed too lightweight early on.
Being a striker is the hardest position. You have to be scoring. Coming in from another country is even harder. Look at Latte Lath at Boro last season. 4 goals in his first 15 games. 11 in his last 14. It can take time. Last night he was alone against a back 5, one of whom is currently England's best defender.
Even allowing for that he got into positions to score two goals. Both, in the end, not great headers. but as lassel says, his movement in the box is good.
I think criticism is valid, but so is patience. It's foolhardy, even if you end up being right, to make hard and fast decisions now.
Madsen too needs to improve and adapt, but the quality is there, as seen with the move just before our goal last night. He's very languid, so some fans will never take to him, but there's quality there. |
Re Madsen probably the same fans who said Eze was lazy. | | | |
| Celar on 17:23 - Sep 19 with 458 views | Spaceman_P |
I think I speak on behalf the more logical sections of the fan-base.
Lets give Celar til December until he faces any wrath.
He had a bad game, playing Palace against an International Defender, with absolutely no service which suits his own game.
Just moved from another country to London which is expensive, he is playing in a more difficult league and getting used to it.
He has shown promise in previous games and his movement has been better than Dykes and Armstrong.
Dykes I think had great hold-up play but Armstrong was just a bulldozer even Bristol fans are complaining about the bloke now.
Celar has something, just needs to have us play to his style a bit and once he nets a goal, it will be good to go.
Fans aren't helping the bloke cos he and his mates likely read these posts and probably just crushes the confidence more.
get behind the players - especially the new guys. If by December they are proving to be bad then we can have a go... but its still September and we've got to support our team. |  | | |
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