| Post deleted 20:24 - Apr 13 with 15030 views | ColDale |
Right that post is gone. Either its a troll or we have people again within the first team airing their grievances on here. Time will tell but either way its not healthy for the club to have such things on here. Call it censorship call it what you want but on the eve of a game which could see us relegated, it is clear that whoever is behind it doesn't have the best interests of the club at heart. If further posts need deleting, then so be it. |  | | |  |
| Post deleted on 18:50 - Apr 15 with 1156 views | Doris |
For the love of the club Doris. Part of being a supporter is wanting to see your club improve and advance. When it is visibly going backwards the instinct is to help - like you would an elderly relative - even if they did smell of piss!!
A very simplistic answer , we all as fans who turn up want the club to do well but when it is not answers need to be given and rectifying the problems need to be made.THIS is not happening because the ostterich has got its head buried so far up its own arse it cant see the people who are trying to help it ,the club from what is put on this thread never mind what really is going on do not want/need our help ,so be it .good luck in banging your head against the brick wall ,the wall will win . |  | | |
| Post deleted on 18:50 - Apr 15 with 1147 views | R17ALE |
| Post deleted on 18:31 - Apr 15 by electricblue |
I can see only one problem with your excellent idea...
Dale will have to pay for it and then the up keep and dale wont pay...
The potential for this proposal is infinite.....
A question for you R17.
Are you allowed to add the match sponsor to any ads sent via bluetooth ie Dale v Fc grass is sponsored by joe bloggs electrics..
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Yes. Anything can be texted out for free.
For example, last Monday, the active computers could have been programmed to issue a reminder that the Sheff Utd match is all ticket which also doubles up as a reminder that we are playing on the Tuesday night.
At 7.15pm on Tuesday, the club based computer could have been updated to say, "Don't forget to buy your programme from the sellers outside the ground."
At half time, another text advertising the Exeter game could have been delivered.
And sponsors can be added - indeed it is an additional perk to being a match sponsor.
If the technology is installed across the Borough, it can be used to announced postponements and game on messages, new kit arrivals....anything you like really. |  |
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| Post deleted on 19:04 - Apr 15 with 1106 views | macro |
| Post deleted on 18:50 - Apr 15 by R17ALE |
Yes. Anything can be texted out for free.
For example, last Monday, the active computers could have been programmed to issue a reminder that the Sheff Utd match is all ticket which also doubles up as a reminder that we are playing on the Tuesday night.
At 7.15pm on Tuesday, the club based computer could have been updated to say, "Don't forget to buy your programme from the sellers outside the ground."
At half time, another text advertising the Exeter game could have been delivered.
And sponsors can be added - indeed it is an additional perk to being a match sponsor.
If the technology is installed across the Borough, it can be used to announced postponements and game on messages, new kit arrivals....anything you like really. |
We use text alerts where I work it's a fixed fee for a year and you can send as many as you want. Great way of keeping things in mind, works well |  | | |
| Post deleted on 19:07 - Apr 15 with 1087 views | Pops2 |
| Post deleted on 19:04 - Apr 15 by macro |
We use text alerts where I work it's a fixed fee for a year and you can send as many as you want. Great way of keeping things in mind, works well |
So its mongs like you that send me 3 texts a day offering me loans. If i was to reply telling them to get stuffed, i get charged. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Post deleted on 19:09 - Apr 15 with 1080 views | ColDale |
| Post deleted on 18:38 - Apr 15 by pl56 |
I've got to confess that reading this thread has depressed me ; as someone not involved in the internal politics around the club , I had accepted CD was a serious and competent Chairman who had one aberration in the appointment of SE which I was happy to accept as an isolated error as I . for one , am prepared to admit , on paper I welcomed the appointment .
Having gone through this thread I now have to ask if CD is actually competent to be in overall charge , as Chairman of the Board , of the club . given the overall picture of naivety and general negligence described . It now seems to me the strategic direction as needs to be layed down by the Board (the buck must stop there) is defective to a greater or larger extent in relation to marketing , communications , technology , recruitment , staff training , and , presently , on the football field . In such circumstances , if the expertise is not in-house , then any business would re-structure , make redundancies where necessary , and invest in the skills that can deliver cost-effective solutions . Otherwise , staff will just coast along in a complacent manner merely dabbling in areas where they lack expertise as described .
The excellent paper disclosed by R17ALE provide a brilliant basis for the launch of effective consultation on such a restructure , and if its been kicked into the long grass because its too revolutionary , and threatens the cosy existence of those who it would threaten , then its an absolute tragedy . |
In my opinion, we have the right man at the helm in Chris Dunphy and I don't think you could question the motives of any of the board of directors. If pushed for an answer, I'd say that in days of old we had more of a team on the board of directors - we had Killie, Morris, Dunphy, Rod Brierley, Jim Marsh. These days, we seem to have Dunphy, Hazelhurst and Kelly who are involved in the day to day running, despite football having become more professional since those days. I think the club looks as schemes like this and just don't have the ambition to see them through. I think they probably take one look at them and don't feel that they are capable of seeing them through. I might be way off the mark on anything I've put there, but that's just the feeling that I get. The club need support, and there is a willingness to give them that support. | | | |
| Post deleted on 19:12 - Apr 15 with 1061 views | BigKindo |
| Post deleted on 18:38 - Apr 15 by pl56 |
I've got to confess that reading this thread has depressed me ; as someone not involved in the internal politics around the club , I had accepted CD was a serious and competent Chairman who had one aberration in the appointment of SE which I was happy to accept as an isolated error as I . for one , am prepared to admit , on paper I welcomed the appointment .
Having gone through this thread I now have to ask if CD is actually competent to be in overall charge , as Chairman of the Board , of the club . given the overall picture of naivety and general negligence described . It now seems to me the strategic direction as needs to be layed down by the Board (the buck must stop there) is defective to a greater or larger extent in relation to marketing , communications , technology , recruitment , staff training , and , presently , on the football field . In such circumstances , if the expertise is not in-house , then any business would re-structure , make redundancies where necessary , and invest in the skills that can deliver cost-effective solutions . Otherwise , staff will just coast along in a complacent manner merely dabbling in areas where they lack expertise as described .
The excellent paper disclosed by R17ALE provide a brilliant basis for the launch of effective consultation on such a restructure , and if its been kicked into the long grass because its too revolutionary , and threatens the cosy existence of those who it would threaten , then its an absolute tragedy . |
And how many clubs have a Chairman who is prepared to stand with Dale supporters in the away end? I bring to mind Boston and the last visit to Macc. And how many clubs have a Chairman who turns up at the pub with the Daleys before the match for a pint rather than becoming anonymous in the Directors' Boardroom? As recently as 3 weeks ago at Brentford C.D. was in the Griffin pre match. Get off the man's back. He has already apologised publically for this year's debacle. |  | | |
| Post deleted on 19:12 - Apr 15 with 1057 views | R17ALE |
| Post deleted on 19:09 - Apr 15 by ColDale |
In my opinion, we have the right man at the helm in Chris Dunphy and I don't think you could question the motives of any of the board of directors. If pushed for an answer, I'd say that in days of old we had more of a team on the board of directors - we had Killie, Morris, Dunphy, Rod Brierley, Jim Marsh. These days, we seem to have Dunphy, Hazelhurst and Kelly who are involved in the day to day running, despite football having become more professional since those days. I think the club looks as schemes like this and just don't have the ambition to see them through. I think they probably take one look at them and don't feel that they are capable of seeing them through. I might be way off the mark on anything I've put there, but that's just the feeling that I get. The club need support, and there is a willingness to give them that support. |
I'd second that Col. CD would love to have the time to explore as many good ideas as he can, but he cannot cut himself in two between his company and the Dale. This is why there have been calls that he should appoint either more Directors, or a General Manager to run the middle managers and replace them if they under perform. | |
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| Post deleted on 19:17 - Apr 15 with 1033 views | Doris |
| Post deleted on 19:09 - Apr 15 by ColDale |
In my opinion, we have the right man at the helm in Chris Dunphy and I don't think you could question the motives of any of the board of directors. If pushed for an answer, I'd say that in days of old we had more of a team on the board of directors - we had Killie, Morris, Dunphy, Rod Brierley, Jim Marsh. These days, we seem to have Dunphy, Hazelhurst and Kelly who are involved in the day to day running, despite football having become more professional since those days. I think the club looks as schemes like this and just don't have the ambition to see them through. I think they probably take one look at them and don't feel that they are capable of seeing them through. I might be way off the mark on anything I've put there, but that's just the feeling that I get. The club need support, and there is a willingness to give them that support. |
Hazlehurst is an associate director with 10075 shares ,the Kilpatrick family have over 130000 shares but have seemingly very little input into the club apart from shelling money at it.Whens the next fans forum,still remember A Kellys rant a couple of years ago at the fans ,classic . | | | |
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| Post deleted on 19:18 - Apr 15 with 1031 views | 100569 |
This has developed into a hugely interesting thread. R17 thanks for a very interesting read re the Think Tank and subsequent posts.
Everyone agrees that we need more `bumns on seats` and we have to accept that Rochdale is a multi ethnic community and we have to target these groups and get them on board. Football is not just a white persons spectator sport. I do know that efforts have been made in the past through Football in the Community but in my opinion more of an effort has to be made. Numerous complaints are aired on here re front of house, club shop and the website and its not just the odd individual complaining so there is obviously serious problems throughout. The Trust meet with the directors on a bi-monthly basis. These meetings should be more widely publicised and Trust members through the Trust board should be hammering away at their grievances via this medium rather than on here and just hoping that someone on the clubs board may read it. Richard Wild was mentioned on this thread earlier. I feel the club missed a trick a few years ago when he approached them with a view to taking on the franchise of the Stadium I feel he would have made a big success of it but thats another story. I know Chris Dunphy and the board have the club at heart but sometimes I do think that they see the Trust and R17 in particular as a thorn in their side. That is wrong. We all have this club at heart. We love it to death we want whats best for it. Recently we tasted success and quite rightly we want more of it. Some of our younger supporters have only known that success and quite right as previously posted they are not going to come and see a team that is on a slippery slope downwards. God help they should have to suffer as we did in the 70`s and 80`s in particular. Talking about the kids which are the future of the club what happened to the proposed idea by the Trust of launching a junior branch. The last I heard of that it was due to have been launched 12 months ago.
In conclusion (i think) its time people at the club were held responsible for the positions they hold there. Perhaps the shop should be results/profit driven. A basic wage topped by commision. Front of house over hauled and instead of dishevelled females (as stated on this post) a smart uniform or code/standard of dress. The official website is the worst it has ever been and needs a complete overhaul. The fans want information and lots of it.
Finally when is the next directors meeting ? Put it on a sticky (i think thats the term) and keep it at the top of this message board for a week prior so we dont forget and we can air our grievances or make some valid points or suggestions that can improve our beloved club. Iam getting on in years and having seen two promotions and probably the best four years of my supporting life and would love to see it continue. | | | |
| Post deleted on 19:25 - Apr 15 with 994 views | R17ALE |
| Post deleted on 19:18 - Apr 15 by 100569 |
This has developed into a hugely interesting thread. R17 thanks for a very interesting read re the Think Tank and subsequent posts.
Everyone agrees that we need more `bumns on seats` and we have to accept that Rochdale is a multi ethnic community and we have to target these groups and get them on board. Football is not just a white persons spectator sport. I do know that efforts have been made in the past through Football in the Community but in my opinion more of an effort has to be made. Numerous complaints are aired on here re front of house, club shop and the website and its not just the odd individual complaining so there is obviously serious problems throughout. The Trust meet with the directors on a bi-monthly basis. These meetings should be more widely publicised and Trust members through the Trust board should be hammering away at their grievances via this medium rather than on here and just hoping that someone on the clubs board may read it. Richard Wild was mentioned on this thread earlier. I feel the club missed a trick a few years ago when he approached them with a view to taking on the franchise of the Stadium I feel he would have made a big success of it but thats another story. I know Chris Dunphy and the board have the club at heart but sometimes I do think that they see the Trust and R17 in particular as a thorn in their side. That is wrong. We all have this club at heart. We love it to death we want whats best for it. Recently we tasted success and quite rightly we want more of it. Some of our younger supporters have only known that success and quite right as previously posted they are not going to come and see a team that is on a slippery slope downwards. God help they should have to suffer as we did in the 70`s and 80`s in particular. Talking about the kids which are the future of the club what happened to the proposed idea by the Trust of launching a junior branch. The last I heard of that it was due to have been launched 12 months ago.
In conclusion (i think) its time people at the club were held responsible for the positions they hold there. Perhaps the shop should be results/profit driven. A basic wage topped by commision. Front of house over hauled and instead of dishevelled females (as stated on this post) a smart uniform or code/standard of dress. The official website is the worst it has ever been and needs a complete overhaul. The fans want information and lots of it.
Finally when is the next directors meeting ? Put it on a sticky (i think thats the term) and keep it at the top of this message board for a week prior so we dont forget and we can air our grievances or make some valid points or suggestions that can improve our beloved club. Iam getting on in years and having seen two promotions and probably the best four years of my supporting life and would love to see it continue. |
Junior Dale has not been launched officially yet, but is planned to be launched in pre-season. The intention is for The Trust to get it up and running and then give it to the club to develop and expand.
The worry is that it will then wither and die off. | |
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| Post deleted on 19:26 - Apr 15 with 983 views | Ralphs12 |
| Post deleted on 19:25 - Apr 15 by R17ALE |
Junior Dale has not been launched officially yet, but is planned to be launched in pre-season. The intention is for The Trust to get it up and running and then give it to the club to develop and expand.
The worry is that it will then wither and die off. |
Why did Junior Dale stop by the way? |  | | |
| Post deleted on 19:30 - Apr 15 with 966 views | BigKindo |
| Post deleted on 19:18 - Apr 15 by 100569 |
This has developed into a hugely interesting thread. R17 thanks for a very interesting read re the Think Tank and subsequent posts.
Everyone agrees that we need more `bumns on seats` and we have to accept that Rochdale is a multi ethnic community and we have to target these groups and get them on board. Football is not just a white persons spectator sport. I do know that efforts have been made in the past through Football in the Community but in my opinion more of an effort has to be made. Numerous complaints are aired on here re front of house, club shop and the website and its not just the odd individual complaining so there is obviously serious problems throughout. The Trust meet with the directors on a bi-monthly basis. These meetings should be more widely publicised and Trust members through the Trust board should be hammering away at their grievances via this medium rather than on here and just hoping that someone on the clubs board may read it. Richard Wild was mentioned on this thread earlier. I feel the club missed a trick a few years ago when he approached them with a view to taking on the franchise of the Stadium I feel he would have made a big success of it but thats another story. I know Chris Dunphy and the board have the club at heart but sometimes I do think that they see the Trust and R17 in particular as a thorn in their side. That is wrong. We all have this club at heart. We love it to death we want whats best for it. Recently we tasted success and quite rightly we want more of it. Some of our younger supporters have only known that success and quite right as previously posted they are not going to come and see a team that is on a slippery slope downwards. God help they should have to suffer as we did in the 70`s and 80`s in particular. Talking about the kids which are the future of the club what happened to the proposed idea by the Trust of launching a junior branch. The last I heard of that it was due to have been launched 12 months ago.
In conclusion (i think) its time people at the club were held responsible for the positions they hold there. Perhaps the shop should be results/profit driven. A basic wage topped by commision. Front of house over hauled and instead of dishevelled females (as stated on this post) a smart uniform or code/standard of dress. The official website is the worst it has ever been and needs a complete overhaul. The fans want information and lots of it.
Finally when is the next directors meeting ? Put it on a sticky (i think thats the term) and keep it at the top of this message board for a week prior so we dont forget and we can air our grievances or make some valid points or suggestions that can improve our beloved club. Iam getting on in years and having seen two promotions and probably the best four years of my supporting life and would love to see it continue. |
Unfortunately the 'sticky' would mainly consist of negative gripes. 'Why didn't we sign, why does the manager continue to select, why has the price of pies................ | | | |
| Post deleted on 19:31 - Apr 15 with 953 views | TVOS1907 |
| Post deleted on 19:30 - Apr 15 by BigKindo |
Unfortunately the 'sticky' would mainly consist of negative gripes. 'Why didn't we sign, why does the manager continue to select, why has the price of pies................ |
I think this thread suggests otherwise, BK. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Post deleted on 19:32 - Apr 15 with 947 views | R17ALE |
| Post deleted on 19:26 - Apr 15 by Ralphs12 |
Why did Junior Dale stop by the way? |
No idea 442 might know! | |
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| Post deleted on 19:35 - Apr 15 with 933 views | 100569 |
| Post deleted on 19:09 - Apr 15 by ColDale |
In my opinion, we have the right man at the helm in Chris Dunphy and I don't think you could question the motives of any of the board of directors. If pushed for an answer, I'd say that in days of old we had more of a team on the board of directors - we had Killie, Morris, Dunphy, Rod Brierley, Jim Marsh. These days, we seem to have Dunphy, Hazelhurst and Kelly who are involved in the day to day running, despite football having become more professional since those days. I think the club looks as schemes like this and just don't have the ambition to see them through. I think they probably take one look at them and don't feel that they are capable of seeing them through. I might be way off the mark on anything I've put there, but that's just the feeling that I get. The club need support, and there is a willingness to give them that support. |
I quite agree Col. I have nothing but admiration for our current board and all those since that EGM years ago when messers Kilpatrick, Morris etc took over but everyone needs to be pulling together and pooling ideas and not seeing people as a threat who come up with good or better ideas or indeed constructive criticism. The only way forward is for us all to listen and learn from each other. | | | |
| Post deleted on 19:40 - Apr 15 with 916 views | Doris |
| Post deleted on 19:35 - Apr 15 by 100569 |
I quite agree Col. I have nothing but admiration for our current board and all those since that EGM years ago when messers Kilpatrick, Morris etc took over but everyone needs to be pulling together and pooling ideas and not seeing people as a threat who come up with good or better ideas or indeed constructive criticism. The only way forward is for us all to listen and learn from each other. |
Its alright saying we need this and we need that ,everybody knows whats needed but the club do nowt about it ,chris dunphy has the power to change that but he hasnt done it yet and this has been going on for years.
Why change now ?? the answer is we will be conference this time next year . | | | |
| Post deleted on 19:53 - Apr 15 with 878 views | SuddenLad |
| Post deleted on 19:35 - Apr 15 by 100569 |
I quite agree Col. I have nothing but admiration for our current board and all those since that EGM years ago when messers Kilpatrick, Morris etc took over but everyone needs to be pulling together and pooling ideas and not seeing people as a threat who come up with good or better ideas or indeed constructive criticism. The only way forward is for us all to listen and learn from each other. |
Until the Board ACCEPT the help in the manner in which it is being offered, instead of seeing the proposals as a 'threat' to their positions, nothing will change.
The idea that all club staff should wear a specific 'uniform' or range of 'club specific clothing' is an excellent one. If the club are to promote the idea of 'Team Rochdale' to the outside world, the employees of the club should look the part, instead of the unkempt image so often on show.
Munching crisps and sandwiches should also be done away from public view. It doesn't look good. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Post deleted on 19:53 - Apr 15 with 876 views | 442Dale |
| Post deleted on 19:32 - Apr 15 by R17ALE |
No idea 442 might know! |
I don't unfortunately! At first, when it started in the 80s and my dad helped Maureen Peacock run it, it was reasonably informal. Then over the years the club became more involved and it may or may not (my memory is hazy and I was obviously well past it in age!) have merged into the Saturday Club where kids would turn up for football before then attending Spotland. Could well be wrong. |  |
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| Post deleted on 19:59 - Apr 15 with 854 views | electricblue |
| Post deleted on 19:26 - Apr 15 by Ralphs12 |
Why did Junior Dale stop by the way? |
I was going to aak that question..
I seem to remember that the junior was going very well in the 1990's so something happend to it....
Does spotland still have a junior section, or a family section if not why not.
Why not when buying a matchday ticket be given an under 16' s ticket free providing you want one of course.. |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Post deleted on 20:03 - Apr 15 with 840 views | pl56 |
Thanks for the reassurance Col and R17ALE ; I acknowledge that you are both far more aware of the internal workings at the club than I . All I was doing in my earlier post was summarising the impact the various contributors to the thread had made on me as an individual and the impression given . It was not , as another contributor suggested , an intent to "get on the Chairman's back" but merely an attempt to articulate the impression left with me , and to offer some constructive thoughts on how they might be addressed using the "think tank" document as a basis . | | | |
| Post deleted on 20:09 - Apr 15 with 823 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Post deleted on 19:40 - Apr 15 by Doris |
Its alright saying we need this and we need that ,everybody knows whats needed but the club do nowt about it ,chris dunphy has the power to change that but he hasnt done it yet and this has been going on for years.
Why change now ?? the answer is we will be conference this time next year . |
But Dunphy has proved himself to be a decisive man (on football matters at least).
Brave to ditch Parkin, brave to leave a "rookie" in place for six games post dismissal, brave to appoint Eyre and brave to sack him and admit the error of the appointment.
Similar decision and bravery is needed in the off the field matters. With relative success he must accept that the off the field methods and approach is somewhat out of date and not what is needed to keep the club competitive off the field.
As the latter part of the Kilpatrick/Morris era which literally saved the club from being like Altrincham FC. That was their legacy.
Dunphy et al's legacy can be an efficient, well run League 1 club. But the preparation starts off the field first. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Post deleted on 20:10 - Apr 15 with 815 views | Doris |
| Post deleted on 20:09 - Apr 15 by RAFCBLUE |
But Dunphy has proved himself to be a decisive man (on football matters at least).
Brave to ditch Parkin, brave to leave a "rookie" in place for six games post dismissal, brave to appoint Eyre and brave to sack him and admit the error of the appointment.
Similar decision and bravery is needed in the off the field matters. With relative success he must accept that the off the field methods and approach is somewhat out of date and not what is needed to keep the club competitive off the field.
As the latter part of the Kilpatrick/Morris era which literally saved the club from being like Altrincham FC. That was their legacy.
Dunphy et al's legacy can be an efficient, well run League 1 club. But the preparation starts off the field first. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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well run league one club ??? not off this thread its not. | | | |
| Post deleted on 20:18 - Apr 15 with 791 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Post deleted on 20:10 - Apr 15 by Doris |
well run league one club ??? not off this thread its not. |
Note I said: "Can be", not is. Legacy is what you make it and can take years to deliver. Dunphy is 62 - he's got time and experience to have the opportunity to leave something to pass for the next generation(s).
As Col identifies above, the share ownership is that fragmented that they are owned by lots of fans in differing proportions - in real terms effectively financially worthless so these guys are not in it for the money.
Dunphy since 2006 he's overseen one promotion and soon to be one relegation, he's 1-1 in my eyes for football matters - back where we started.
Off-field though we haven't moved with the times and that's the challenge/opportunity here. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Post deleted on 20:27 - Apr 15 with 759 views | Doris |
| Post deleted on 20:18 - Apr 15 by RAFCBLUE |
Note I said: "Can be", not is. Legacy is what you make it and can take years to deliver. Dunphy is 62 - he's got time and experience to have the opportunity to leave something to pass for the next generation(s).
As Col identifies above, the share ownership is that fragmented that they are owned by lots of fans in differing proportions - in real terms effectively financially worthless so these guys are not in it for the money.
Dunphy since 2006 he's overseen one promotion and soon to be one relegation, he's 1-1 in my eyes for football matters - back where we started.
Off-field though we haven't moved with the times and that's the challenge/opportunity here. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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i take your word as the " can be " part of your post and apologise for the misunderstanding (no idea what the editing was)
"Off-field though we haven't moved with the times and that's the challenge/opportunity here."
As you say since he has been in charge since 2006 why has this not been targeted as a priority,you dont to be told of this ,its basic marketing .If our directors are apparently succesful in their own businesses why hasnt this been transmitted to the off field activities of the club or designated to somebody who could do it. | | | |
| Post deleted on 20:30 - Apr 15 with 751 views | SalwaDale |
Very interesting thread this one. Key thing (for me anyway) seems to be for the board to invest in the "non-football" squad. I have no idea how many staff a club like ours should have, or how the staffing structure should work. Forget the ideas and all that kind of thing, the structure is the one of the first things that must be in place, it is the same in any place of work. One thing comes before that, and that is the vision, not the nitty gritty but the vision of what our club should be.
1. Big Picture/vision
2. Structure
3. Start doing the things that make the big picture a reality
One of the main reasons that any organisation fails is that people don't always know where they are heading. There is no reason whatsoever why the trust and some of the experts within it cannot be involved in the first two parts. Once they are done part 3 will be run by the club. |  |
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