| Ukraine 10:54 - Feb 12 with 5251 views | Sadoldgit |
Not looking good. Can’t be much fun worrying that you are going wake up with Russian tanks rumbling down the street. Also worrying that Putin had been talking about the nuclear threat. How do we let these nut jobs anywhere near power? Surely the Russian people are no different to us and just want to get on with their lives peacefully? |  | | |  |
| Ukraine on 11:30 - Feb 12 with 3461 views | dwayne_dibley |
it was bound to happen. The Establishment want a nice big war to cull the excess lower social class populations |  |
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| Ukraine on 12:03 - Feb 12 with 3430 views | dirk_doone |
This is similar to the Cuban missile crisis, where a world war was narrowly averted, except this time the boot is on the other foot. The USA didn't want Russian missiles in Cuba and the Russians don't want American missiles in Ukraine, which if the Ukraine joins NATO, is a real possibility.
You could argue that Ukraine is a free country and so has the right to join NATO but you could equally well argue that Cuba was a free country and had the right to be a military ally of the Soviet Union. Fortunately the Cubans and Russians backed down just in time. This time it needs Ukraine and USA to do the same. Ukraine not joining a western military organisation will be a small price to pay for all of the lives that will be saved.
Of course, leaders puffing their chests and looking macho in front ot their people has always been a major factor in causing wars. Whoever backs down this time, if anyone does, will lose popularity with his own people even if he does save a lot of lives.
Ukraine was such an important part of the Soviet Union that it is shocking to the Russians now that it could be joining a military alliance with their traditional enemy. It's almost like Canada allying with Russia against the USA. [Post edited 12 Feb 2022 21:12]
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| Ukraine on 12:19 - Feb 12 with 3392 views | Bridders2 |
| Ukraine on 12:03 - Feb 12 by dirk_doone |
This is similar to the Cuban missile crisis, where a world war was narrowly averted, except this time the boot is on the other foot. The USA didn't want Russian missiles in Cuba and the Russians don't want American missiles in Ukraine, which if the Ukraine joins NATO, is a real possibility.
You could argue that Ukraine is a free country and so has the right to join NATO but you could equally well argue that Cuba was a free country and had the right to be a military ally of the Soviet Union. Fortunately the Cubans and Russians backed down just in time. This time it needs Ukraine and USA to do the same. Ukraine not joining a western military organisation will be a small price to pay for all of the lives that will be saved.
Of course, leaders puffing their chests and looking macho in front ot their people has always been a major factor in causing wars. Whoever backs down this time, if anyone does, will lose popularity with his own people even if he does save a lot of lives.
Ukraine was such an important part of the Soviet Union that it is shocking to the Russians now that it could be joining a military alliance with their traditional enemy. It's almost like Canada allying with Russia against the USA. [Post edited 12 Feb 2022 21:12]
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I agree. Nato should back off and Ukraine should become a neutral state maybe with the ability to buy arms from the West to protect itself. |  | | |
| Ukraine on 15:24 - Feb 12 with 3278 views | 1885_SFC |
| Ukraine on 12:19 - Feb 12 by Bridders2 |
I agree. Nato should back off and Ukraine should become a neutral state maybe with the ability to buy arms from the West to protect itself. |
I agree. We live in the West of course & therefore we get Western bias news/reports on the Ukraine situation there. But historically, Ukraine has very close links to Russia and I do find myself having some sympathy with Moscow on this whole issue. As usual, we'll no doubt follow Biden and the Yanks and whatever they desire (forgetting the inept EU) but at least no British troops will be setting foot on Ukrainian soil... for now. And neither should they.
We shouldn't be poking the bear and antagonising it. |  |
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| Ukraine on 15:38 - Feb 12 with 3253 views | Bettwsresident |
When the soviet union collapsed Ukraine had the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, and gave it up on the promise of assured soverignty by Russia and Nato. If they had kept it, this would not be happening. | | | |
| Ukraine on 16:57 - Feb 12 with 3210 views | Sadoldgit |
| Ukraine on 15:24 - Feb 12 by 1885_SFC |
I agree. We live in the West of course & therefore we get Western bias news/reports on the Ukraine situation there. But historically, Ukraine has very close links to Russia and I do find myself having some sympathy with Moscow on this whole issue. As usual, we'll no doubt follow Biden and the Yanks and whatever they desire (forgetting the inept EU) but at least no British troops will be setting foot on Ukrainian soil... for now. And neither should they.
We shouldn't be poking the bear and antagonising it. |
The bear should not be threatening to invade a sovereign, independent country. | | | |
| Ukraine on 21:02 - Feb 12 with 3118 views | Ron11 |
I lived and worked in Ukraine from mid 2004 until August 2020. The pro Russians in their nation are a small minority, but nearly all the many people I knew there would have been happy to join the EU but NOT be part of NATO, because they knew that the inevitable would happen. Often made was the comment 'Russians are our brothers and sisters, we have no quarrel with them, we just want to be Ukrainians'.
Why they have been under pressure join NATO is unfathomable when not doing that would have possibly been the solution to stability and an end to hostility in the region.
The Yanks didn't like Russian missiles on their doorstep, did they?
Oh, and one thing that really does piss Ukrainians off - their country being referred as 'the' Ukraine. It's just Ukraine.
FFS. | | | |
| Ukraine on 22:17 - Feb 12 with 3072 views | Bicester_North |
| Ukraine on 21:02 - Feb 12 by Ron11 |
I lived and worked in Ukraine from mid 2004 until August 2020. The pro Russians in their nation are a small minority, but nearly all the many people I knew there would have been happy to join the EU but NOT be part of NATO, because they knew that the inevitable would happen. Often made was the comment 'Russians are our brothers and sisters, we have no quarrel with them, we just want to be Ukrainians'.
Why they have been under pressure join NATO is unfathomable when not doing that would have possibly been the solution to stability and an end to hostility in the region.
The Yanks didn't like Russian missiles on their doorstep, did they?
Oh, and one thing that really does piss Ukrainians off - their country being referred as 'the' Ukraine. It's just Ukraine.
FFS. |
Exactly Ron. Why was there any need for NATO expansion after the collapse of the Soviet Union?
The one chance of peace in Europe 30 years ago and the f*cking idiots are bringing it back full circle again. The whole thing is pointless bollocks. Putin is a posturing dickhead but so are NATO and the USA and the rest that follow them. | |
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| Ukraine on 23:15 - Feb 12 with 3029 views | Ron11 |
| Ukraine on 22:17 - Feb 12 by Bicester_North |
Exactly Ron. Why was there any need for NATO expansion after the collapse of the Soviet Union?
The one chance of peace in Europe 30 years ago and the f*cking idiots are bringing it back full circle again. The whole thing is pointless bollocks. Putin is a posturing dickhead but so are NATO and the USA and the rest that follow them. |
Yes. Everybody knows that no one in their right mind is going to attack Russia.
So what is the point of antagonising The Bear by refusing to rule out NATO membership for Ukraine? | | | |
| Ukraine on 00:50 - Feb 13 with 2989 views | Sadoldgit |
Because it is their choice if they join NATO or not. It would appear that their fear of Russia is justified is it not? Putin is the one rattling his sabre, not the West. He is the one massing troops on the borders of another country, not the West. We stood by Poland (although that didn’t stop them being invaded). We should stand by the Ukraine. As Putin has brought up the sublet of nuclear arms, perhaps we should start getting some payback for the billions we have spent on our nuclear “deterrent” and tell him that if he steps into the Ukraine we will nuke Moscow. He is a cowardly bully. Let’s see how he likes it. He gets away with so much because he knows we will not do anything other than threaten sanctions. He has been playing the West as mugs for years and has been behind efforts to get Trump elected, Brexit, Johnson, anything that weakens and divides the West. He is the archetypal Bond villain only we don’t have a Bond to sort him out, only a Biden, a Johnson, a Macron and other assorted Western wimps. He has been playing us for suckers for years and he is doing it again now. Sadly we will sit back and let him butcher more innocent people do that he can show hos people how tough he is, when as has been said, nobody in the West gives a toss about Russia and invading his precious borders. | | | |
| Ukraine on 01:46 - Feb 13 with 2981 views | Bicester_North |
| Ukraine on 00:50 - Feb 13 by Sadoldgit |
Because it is their choice if they join NATO or not. It would appear that their fear of Russia is justified is it not? Putin is the one rattling his sabre, not the West. He is the one massing troops on the borders of another country, not the West. We stood by Poland (although that didn’t stop them being invaded). We should stand by the Ukraine. As Putin has brought up the sublet of nuclear arms, perhaps we should start getting some payback for the billions we have spent on our nuclear “deterrent” and tell him that if he steps into the Ukraine we will nuke Moscow. He is a cowardly bully. Let’s see how he likes it. He gets away with so much because he knows we will not do anything other than threaten sanctions. He has been playing the West as mugs for years and has been behind efforts to get Trump elected, Brexit, Johnson, anything that weakens and divides the West. He is the archetypal Bond villain only we don’t have a Bond to sort him out, only a Biden, a Johnson, a Macron and other assorted Western wimps. He has been playing us for suckers for years and he is doing it again now. Sadly we will sit back and let him butcher more innocent people do that he can show hos people how tough he is, when as has been said, nobody in the West gives a toss about Russia and invading his precious borders. |
Yes Putin got the ball rolling on all those things you get agitated about and disagree with, it was him all along that started it all, while stroking his white furry pussy. | |
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| Ukraine on 04:58 - Feb 13 with 2955 views | Butty101 |
| Ukraine on 15:24 - Feb 12 by 1885_SFC |
I agree. We live in the West of course & therefore we get Western bias news/reports on the Ukraine situation there. But historically, Ukraine has very close links to Russia and I do find myself having some sympathy with Moscow on this whole issue. As usual, we'll no doubt follow Biden and the Yanks and whatever they desire (forgetting the inept EU) but at least no British troops will be setting foot on Ukrainian soil... for now. And neither should they.
We shouldn't be poking the bear and antagonising it. |
Our trooos are on standby to go and have been for a month |  |
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| Ukraine on 08:32 - Feb 13 with 2893 views | dwayne_dibley |
Nuclear war between Russia and NATO will happen this year
The winner will be China | |
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| Ukraine on 09:43 - Feb 13 with 2862 views | A1079 |
I look at the current situation with Ukraine not dissimilar to the position prior to the 2nd World War and Europe's failings to nip Hitler's intentions in the bud at that time seemingly potentially being repeated now.
Ukraine as a nation has been occupied by Russia or previously Soviet Union in various forms over its lifetime as a nation. Russia/Soviet Union has not treated them (or other neighbours) well. 4 milion Ukrainians were starved to death prior to the 2nd World War under Stalin. When Germany invaded Ukrainians not surprisingly (however misguided it was) sided with Nazi Germany. Of course, as Germany retreated Soviet Union re-established its occupation of the Ukraine until the break up of the Soviet Union.
We can say that Russia feels threatened by NATO on its doorstep. The thing is the Soviet Union occupied the states on its borders post 2nd World War for around 50 years. They never gave them democracy until the break up of the Soviet Union. Instead of winning those countries and their people's over they alienated them, suppressing their freedoms and language and lifestyle, sending thousands to their deaths and to camps in Siberia. Ukraine, the Baltic States, Poland, etc, etc would not be bothered to join NATO or EU if they did not worry or be fearful of Russian domination again. Russia have not sat on the sidelines letting these countries flourish. They have carried out incursions into the Baltic states and Ukraine - testing reaction.
Ukraine is or should be recognised as an independent sovereign state and as such should be able to make its own choices which groups it joins. Ukraine has seen the Crimea annexed and the Eastern states of Donbas and Lukhansk effectively occupied by Russia - so is it any wonder they look to the west for help and support. Russia have just agreed a treaty with China (a bit like when the Soviet Union signed a treaty with Nazi Germany and helped carve up Poland and the Baltic states) but no one stopped them.
The thing is this - the west has effectively said that whilst we will make alot of noise we will not do anything to help Ukraine and stop an invasion - effectively giving up Ukraine - so what next, what if they repeat this in Estonia, Latvia or Lithiuania - do we do nothing? what if it becomes Poland or Finland - do we still do nothing? Remember Germany - Austria - they are German speaking anyway so we did nothing, Sudentenland - just a largely German speaking region, so we did nothing, then it was Czechoslovakia - a country far away so we did nothing - by the time we did do anything millions had already been killed, under occupation or in camps being murdered. Do nothing now and we are just kicking a very poisonous Can down the road. What does it say, that the West is content to get involved in issues in the Middle East but stand by and watch a neighbour on our doorstep go under and be occupied. We should not expect our allies across the pond to always sort out Europe's inability to take a unified approach. Too many countries in Europe are happy to stand by and leave it to someone else until they themselves are impacted as they did with the Balkan crisis.
The scary thing to me about all this, is the fear that we will do nothing for Ukraine and then it is a matter of time of how that then becomes a bigger problem. | | | |
| Ukraine on 10:50 - Feb 13 with 2824 views | Sadoldgit |
| Ukraine on 09:43 - Feb 13 by A1079 |
I look at the current situation with Ukraine not dissimilar to the position prior to the 2nd World War and Europe's failings to nip Hitler's intentions in the bud at that time seemingly potentially being repeated now.
Ukraine as a nation has been occupied by Russia or previously Soviet Union in various forms over its lifetime as a nation. Russia/Soviet Union has not treated them (or other neighbours) well. 4 milion Ukrainians were starved to death prior to the 2nd World War under Stalin. When Germany invaded Ukrainians not surprisingly (however misguided it was) sided with Nazi Germany. Of course, as Germany retreated Soviet Union re-established its occupation of the Ukraine until the break up of the Soviet Union.
We can say that Russia feels threatened by NATO on its doorstep. The thing is the Soviet Union occupied the states on its borders post 2nd World War for around 50 years. They never gave them democracy until the break up of the Soviet Union. Instead of winning those countries and their people's over they alienated them, suppressing their freedoms and language and lifestyle, sending thousands to their deaths and to camps in Siberia. Ukraine, the Baltic States, Poland, etc, etc would not be bothered to join NATO or EU if they did not worry or be fearful of Russian domination again. Russia have not sat on the sidelines letting these countries flourish. They have carried out incursions into the Baltic states and Ukraine - testing reaction.
Ukraine is or should be recognised as an independent sovereign state and as such should be able to make its own choices which groups it joins. Ukraine has seen the Crimea annexed and the Eastern states of Donbas and Lukhansk effectively occupied by Russia - so is it any wonder they look to the west for help and support. Russia have just agreed a treaty with China (a bit like when the Soviet Union signed a treaty with Nazi Germany and helped carve up Poland and the Baltic states) but no one stopped them.
The thing is this - the west has effectively said that whilst we will make alot of noise we will not do anything to help Ukraine and stop an invasion - effectively giving up Ukraine - so what next, what if they repeat this in Estonia, Latvia or Lithiuania - do we do nothing? what if it becomes Poland or Finland - do we still do nothing? Remember Germany - Austria - they are German speaking anyway so we did nothing, Sudentenland - just a largely German speaking region, so we did nothing, then it was Czechoslovakia - a country far away so we did nothing - by the time we did do anything millions had already been killed, under occupation or in camps being murdered. Do nothing now and we are just kicking a very poisonous Can down the road. What does it say, that the West is content to get involved in issues in the Middle East but stand by and watch a neighbour on our doorstep go under and be occupied. We should not expect our allies across the pond to always sort out Europe's inability to take a unified approach. Too many countries in Europe are happy to stand by and leave it to someone else until they themselves are impacted as they did with the Balkan crisis.
The scary thing to me about all this, is the fear that we will do nothing for Ukraine and then it is a matter of time of how that then becomes a bigger problem. |
Whilst my comment about threatening Putin with nuclear weapons was slightly tongue in cheek, our problem is that Putin knows damn well that no one in the West is going to push the button first so he can pretty much do what he wants. Kennedy called Khrushchev’s bluff in the 60’s. Perhaps we need to do so again now (and finally get some mileage out of the billions of pounds and dollars spent on a deterrent that so far hasn’t deterred Russian aggression towards its neighbours one jot. | | | |
| Ukraine on 17:21 - Feb 14 with 2690 views | dwayne_dibley |
kickoff tomorrow | |
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| Ukraine on 00:04 - Feb 17 with 2548 views | Bicester_North |
How did the kickoff go? Pathetic media helmets and government plums been hyping it up as much as they can, now thrilled a couple of storms are hitting the UK to deflect their sensationalist fear spreading shite | |
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| Ukraine on 08:53 - Feb 17 with 2445 views | Sadoldgit |
| Ukraine on 00:04 - Feb 17 by Bicester_North |
How did the kickoff go? Pathetic media helmets and government plums been hyping it up as much as they can, now thrilled a couple of storms are hitting the UK to deflect their sensationalist fear spreading shite |
You haven’t stopped to think that they are doing what they can peacefully to prevent the invasion by shining a huge light on Putin? Or do you really believe that massing troops on Ukraine’s border is just a military excerise? | | | |
| Ukraine on 10:00 - Feb 17 with 2425 views | saints__fan__73 |
With China letting loose killer virus on the World and the Russians trying to start WWIII it's amazing the damage that socialist countries are doing.
Luckily we've been able to swerve getting one of those over here. |  |
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| Ukraine on 10:18 - Feb 17 with 2420 views | JaySaint |
| Ukraine on 04:58 - Feb 13 by Butty101 |
Our trooos are on standby to go and have been for a month |
All 350 of them? | |
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| Ukraine on 15:57 - Feb 17 with 2350 views | Berber |
| Ukraine on 12:19 - Feb 12 by Bridders2 |
I agree. Nato should back off and Ukraine should become a neutral state maybe with the ability to buy arms from the West to protect itself. |
There is a big difference between putting nuclear missiles on someone's doorstep, and a country joining an organisation that will support them against the bullying behaviours we are seeing from Russia.
Putin has said in the recent past that it was a mistake to let the satellite states gain independence, and his actions wrt Crimea shows what his preferred option will be if he thinks he can pull it off. |  |
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| Ukraine on 17:46 - Feb 17 with 2317 views | A1079 |
Russia has effectively annexed the Eastern Ukraine region of Donbas and the Crimea, so it can hardly be said that they are not threatening, yet no one did nothing. It would be like annexing the Isle of Wight and the New Forest - what would feel like. Whether or not they are planning a larger invasion is a moot point but the scale of the presence around the Ukraine border effectively circling the country will maintain fear of invasion at least, detract investors into the country and create an economic downturn which may then destabilise Ukraine internally leading to unrest and thus giving a justification for some sort of invasion by "request".
I have no doubt that if the USA were doing this, our streets in London would be filled with anti USA or anti Western marches and rhetoric particularly from organisations like Stop the War, Socialist Workers Party and other far left or passive organisations etc and yet they say nothing about Russian threats as if they somehow see Russia as some sort of cuddly bear.
I don't want war at all I just want to see the states that got rid of the Soviet oppression to thrive and be able to choose. Yes, theoretically Russia can do what they want in their own land and space and arguably that includes right up to any border but we all know that they are not doing that purely as an exercise (the largest nation in the world has plenty of other spaces they could use). Equally Ukraine and others have the sovereign right to join whatever group they like.
If collectively there is not a stand, as I have said before, we face the potential of repeating history and giving a green light to future intimidation, invasions and occupation by force. | | | |
| Ukraine on 00:58 - Feb 18 with 2282 views | Bison |
Saw a convoy of tanks on the Marchwood bypass today obviously heading for the military port. |  |
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| Ukraine on 08:06 - Feb 18 with 2200 views | Heisenberg |
| Ukraine on 00:58 - Feb 18 by Bison |
Saw a convoy of tanks on the Marchwood bypass today obviously heading for the military port. |
I have it on good authority that they are being mobilised to sort out a few wheelie bins that have gone over so best to be safe and deploy the military. |  |
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| Ukraine on 09:11 - Feb 18 with 2177 views | dwayne_dibley |
| Ukraine on 00:04 - Feb 17 by Bicester_North |
How did the kickoff go? Pathetic media helmets and government plums been hyping it up as much as they can, now thrilled a couple of storms are hitting the UK to deflect their sensationalist fear spreading shite |
VAR postponed it because of Storm Eunice | |
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